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Michaelob
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236 IQ
#1
I currently play a yamaha pacifica and it's great, but I had a go of my friends mexican strat the other day and liked the bigger fretboard, it just felt nicer. I'm thinking of upgrading and wondering if there is any real noticeable difference between a squier and the real thing? I'm going to try one out in a shop soon. Still undecided if I'll go for a tele or a strat

Thanks in advance
halfj06
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Join date: Dec 2009
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#2
Pretty much what most people say is that the classic vibe is as good as a good.mexi strat and more consistent
.. finding mexi strats with good fretwork took me awhile, it took like 6 7 of them before I found one that didn't have sharp edges from the frets sticking out the side of the neck.. any of the lower grade squires aren't any better then your yamaha

My next guitar will probably be a squier cv 50's strat
Last edited by halfj06 at Dec 25, 2012,
treysonpwaters
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#3
^ same....Most all MIM's I try in store have terrible frets....Sharp as hell.

Squeirs for the most part aren't so great. The bullets and affinity series I have played were pretty useless. Bad electronics, bad frets etc. I always stayed away from Squiers. I heard some very good things about the Classic Vibes, and honestly didn't really believe it. I figured it was just people who liked the guitar and were just stoked because they came at such a good price. Until I tried one.

I have an American strat, had a mexi strat, and had a mexi tele. I just picked up a Classic Vibe Custom tele, and it ****ing rocks. The necks, the frets, and the pickups and electronics are miles ahead of any MIM fender I have ever played. There are some highly regarded MIM models, that I haven't had a chance to play, but they are usually around $6-700 (Jimmy Vaughn strat, baja tele and a few others). At that price I would just go MIA used.

I can't really speak for the Classic Vibe strats because I haven't played one, but the tele's are VERY good guitars, and not just 'for the price', they are damn good guitars. The price tag to me, is just a bonus. They are $400 new, I picked up mine for $200 with a hard case, so look around.

The Classic Vibe teles are truly amazing guitars. You don't need to change anything on them. Honestly, nothing needs upgraded. Pickups sounds great, vintage F tuners, full sized pots, fit and finish are flawless.....and this goes for the ones I've see in stores too. MIM's don't have much consistency in my experience....Some are great, some are total shit. They all need new pickups IMO.

I would take a CV tele over a MIM any day. I will probably buy a few actually, because I guarantee they will jack the price up, or discontinue them, slap a fender logo on them and then jack the price up..

Now as far tele vs strat....That's a whole other monster. Take your time and play and listen to them and you will have to decide that one for yourself.

As far as Chinese guitars go, and the hate they get....it is all bullshit. This isn't 1970 were there were a select few very skilled guitar makers blow everyone else out of the water. There are shitty MIA guitars and good MIA guitars....same thing for Chinese guitars. Unless you are going custom shop, or custom build, you are buying a mass produced product. Some are good, some are bad, just like with any product. It doesn't matter what country it was made in. It was made buy some random dude working in a factory. Who cares what country the factory is in? I would put Classic Vibe teles just a notch under MIA IMO, and they are a fraction of the price. I will never buy MIM again unless I find a real gem.

These aren't custom shop guitars by any means, but to me, they are far ahead of MIM's and MIA simply are not worth $6-800 more.
Last edited by treysonpwaters at Dec 25, 2012,
kindadumb
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#4
I've seen some MIA Fenders going for less than $600 used, and some MIJ Fenders and MIJ Squiers going for under $500. If you can get a used Classic Vibe Squier for under $200, go for it; if not, then you might as well just save for a bit longer and get a MIA or MIJ. (For that matter, the MIJ Squiers have a very good reputation).
Alucard817
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#5
Don't count out the Vintage modified strats or Teles either. I just got the VM Mustang bass, and it has build quality to rival my MIM Fenders.
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flame843
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#6
the frets on lower-end Squiers are simply awful, and the necks feel almost unfinished, like you could get a splinter from playing on them for too long. the overall build quality on "real" fenders is much, much better, especially American Standards. Mexi strats are pretty good; they're not quite up to par with the American line, but close enough for the price.

If you don't wanna go over the $500-600 range, grab a MIM strat instead of a squier. even the nicest squiers feel cheaply made in comparison and have dingier components.
Michaelob
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#7
Think I'll go for a real fender then.... Anybody know where I could get a completely black strat, left handed?
LP1951
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#9
Quote by flame843
the frets on lower-end Squiers are simply awful, and the necks feel almost unfinished, like you could get a splinter from playing on them for too long. the overall build quality on "real" fenders is much, much better, especially American Standards. Mexi strats are pretty good; they're not quite up to par with the American line, but close enough for the price.

If you don't wanna go over the $500-600 range, grab a MIM strat instead of a squier. even the nicest squiers feel cheaply made in comparison and have dingier components.


I agree every Squier that I played including the classic vibes felt and sounded like a piece of junk. Aren't they made out of pine and/or plywood?
Mephaphil
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#10
Personally I've never played a Squier that was as nice in any way as my MIA. And are nowhere near the build quality of my Gibson. The thought of someone comparing them to my MIA is laughable.

That said, some people will like them more. It's a subjective issue and that's fair enough.
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Last edited by Mephaphil at Dec 25, 2012,
W4RP1G
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#11
The Classic Vibe is good stock. That puts it ahead of a lot of cheap guitars, including the MIM strat. However, a stock classic vibe doesn't beat a stock American standard. An upgraded CV might match an American Standard when it comes to pickups and hardware, but it won't match it in quality of construction.
MegadethFan18
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#12
Quote by Mephaphil
Personally I've never played a Squier that was as nice in any way as my MIA. And are nowhere near the build quality of my Gibson. The thought of someone comparing them to my MIA is laughable.

That said, some people will like them more. It's a subjective issue and that's fair enough.


Strat to Gibson isn't really a fair comparison. Any Strat (even MIA) is a very basic build so the quality of the build will always be lower than something ornate like a Gibson. I don't mean this in a rude way just that you can build a 10 piece puzzle very well but it isn't as hard as building a 100 piece puzzle.

@Michaelob

Fender has a great compare tool on their website, it's very useful you can compare multiple guitars side by side.

Generally they Stick to Alder Body, Maple Neck and Maple or Rosewood fretboard. I don't buy into country of origin stuff but I do buy into branding. Over the summer on a whim I bought a MIM Strat, no complaints. Recently I was using the compare tool on Fenders website and I noticed the Affinity Strat has almost the same specs as the MIM I bought except it's £250 cheaper and made somewhere else, honestly I felt like a ****ing idiot.
W4RP1G
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#13
Quote by MegadethFan18
Generally they Stick to Alder Body, Maple Neck and Maple or Rosewood fretboard. I don't buy into country of origin stuff but I do buy into branding. Over the summer on a whim I bought a MIM Strat, no complaints. Recently I was using the compare tool on Fenders website and I noticed the Affinity Strat has almost the same specs as the MIM I bought except it's £250 cheaper and made somewhere else, honestly I felt like a ****ing idiot.

So then, by your logic anyone who doesn't buy the cheapest guitar a manufacturer has to offer is an idiot?

I can't believe you just said an affinity Squier is as a good as a MIM strat. Yeah, maybe a good affinity and a bad MIM, but only as an exception.
Last edited by W4RP1G at Dec 25, 2012,
treysonpwaters
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#14
Quote by LP1951
I agree every Squier that I played including the classic vibes felt and sounded like a piece of junk. Aren't they made out of pine and/or plywood?


cv50 tele is pine.....same material original teles were made on for years. they switched to alder bc it held paint better. cv classic is alder.

cv classic tele has better hardware in every aspect than a mim tele. it has a better finish as well. the only thing better in a mim is the lable. the classic vibes ive played were all better built than most all mim standards ive played. not to say there arent good mims.

just go try them. set a budget and go play them then buy one. only answer really.
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#15
Quote by MegadethFan18
Strat to Gibson isn't really a fair comparison. Any Strat (even MIA) is a very basic build so the quality of the build will always be lower than something ornate like a Gibson. I don't mean this in a rude way just that you can build a 10 piece puzzle very well but it isn't as hard as building a 100 piece puzzle.

@Michaelob

Fender has a great compare tool on their website, it's very useful you can compare multiple guitars side by side.

Generally they Stick to Alder Body, Maple Neck and Maple or Rosewood fretboard. I don't buy into country of origin stuff but I do buy into branding. Over the summer on a whim I bought a MIM Strat, no complaints. Recently I was using the compare tool on Fenders website and I noticed the Affinity Strat has almost the same specs as the MIM I bought except it's £250 cheaper and made somewhere else, honestly I felt like a ****ing idiot.


... You don't actually know what you're talking about do you? It's ok, you can admit it.

Seriously, I spent a very long time playing an American Deluxe Telecaster once, it is to this day one of the nicest guitars I have ever put my hands on. I can assure you I've played some damned incredible gear but that tele... oh my word.
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MegadethFan18
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#16
Quote by W4RP1G
So then, by your logic anyone who doesn't buy the cheapest guitar a manufacturer has to offer is an idiot?

I can't believe you just said an affinity Squier is as a good as a MIM strat. Yeah, maybe a good affinity and a bad MIM, but only as an exception.


OK I over exaggerated for effect, I felt a little silly. Part of the reason I bought the MIM was I thought it came with better pickups, it doesn't and I thought everything below it in the price range was made of basswood, again not the case.

At no point did I say it was as good or better (that is trying to objectify the subjective and I hate doing that), I said :

-The Spec sheet of both guitars were samilar
-The MIM was £250 more
-The MIM was made in a different country

None of those three thing are my opinion they are all facts.
Mephaphil
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#17
Quote by MegadethFan18
Strat to Gibson isn't really a fair comparison. Any Strat (even MIA) is a very basic build so the quality of the build will always be lower than something ornate like a Gibson. I don't mean this in a rude way just that you can build a 10 piece puzzle very well but it isn't as hard as building a 100 piece puzzle.


I was referring to past comments I've read where people compare the tone and quality of high end Squiers to actual high end guitars. And then made the comparison seem ridiculous when comparing a Squier to Fenders competition; Gibson.

Strat to Gibson is absolutely a fair comparison. They are two of the highest quality guitar manufacturers and are in direct competition with each other. The MIA is a high quality instrument and is in the same league as a LP.

I have both guitars. A Gibson LP and a MIA Strat and Tele. All 3 are beautiful.
Quote by Shredwizard445
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Sure upgrading your gear will make you sound better.


Last edited by Mephaphil at Dec 25, 2012,
MegadethFan18
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#18
Quote by Mephaphil
I was referring to past comments I've read where people compare the tone and quality of high end Squiers to actual high end guitars. And then made the comparison seem ridiculous when comparing a Squier to Fenders competition; Gibson.

Strat to Gibson is absolutely a fair comparison. They are two of the highest quality guitar manufacturers and are in direct competition with each other. The MIA is a high quality instrument and is in the same league as a LP.

I have both guitars. A Gibson LP and a MIA Strat and Tele. All 3 are beautiful.


I meant from a construction stand point, not playability and tone (those are subjective and between the two I have no preference).

If I was getting a luthier to build me a guitar

The following would be expensive additions:

-Inlayed headstock
-Full works binding
-Nitro finish
-MOP Inlays

The following would be cost cutting methods:
-Decal logo
-Dot inlays
-Huge wiring route covered by pickguard
-Bolt on neck
-No Truss rod cover
-Non recessed back plate
-Solid colour and poly finish.

Sure it's machines doing stuff like cutting out the headstock logo and the edge for the binding but that's still more time the body is on a CNC. Then someone has to spend time inserting the inlays and gluing the binding on.
|Long|
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#19
Quote by Mephaphil
I was referring to past comments I've read where people compare the tone and quality of high end Squiers to actual high end guitars. And then made the comparison seem ridiculous when comparing a Squier to Fenders competition; Gibson.

Strat to Gibson is absolutely a fair comparison. They are two of the highest quality guitar manufacturers and are in direct competition with each other. The MIA is a high quality instrument and is in the same league as a LP.

I have both guitars. A Gibson LP and a MIA Strat and Tele. All 3 are beautiful.

But it's not.

The hours that go into a strat are miniscule compared to any guitar with carved top. The set neck takes more time than a bolt on to put together.

Maybe if you compare a flat top Epi LP to a Gibby, or maybe a Epi SG to a Gibby SG, but the expensive LPs require far more work to put together.
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W4RP1G
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#20
Quote by MegadethFan18
-The Spec sheet of both guitars were samilar
-The MIM was £250 more
-The MIM was made in a different country

None of those three thing are my opinion they are all facts.

I still don't get the point that you're trying to make. It almost sounds like you believe the only thing that matters in a guitar is the materials used, which is absurd. Even more absurd when I recall you arguing that tonewoods don't exist for electric guitars in the past.

Please, help me understand what you're saying.
tbuga05
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#21
I have a squire and a strat. Sound seems pretty similar, the strat is made much better, and has more weight to it.
Mephaphil
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#22
Well, when you put it like that...

But what I meant was, the quality of the parts used on the respective guitars, the finish the playability etc.

They both just feel like quality instruments.
Quote by Shredwizard445
Go ahead and spend your money, I don't care. It won't make you sound better.


Quote by Shredwizard445
Sure upgrading your gear will make you sound better.


Mephaphil
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#23
Quote by tbuga05
I have a squire and a strat. Sound seems pretty similar, the strat is made much better, and has more weight to it.


What Squier and what Strat?
Quote by Shredwizard445
Go ahead and spend your money, I don't care. It won't make you sound better.


Quote by Shredwizard445
Sure upgrading your gear will make you sound better.


Zaphod_Beeblebr
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#24
Quote by MegadethFan18
I meant from a construction stand point, not playability and tone (those are subjective and between the two I have no preference).

If I was getting a luthier to build me a guitar

The following would be expensive additions:

-Inlayed headstock
-Full works binding
-Nitro finish
-MOP Inlays

The following would be cost cutting methods:
-Decal logo
-Dot inlays
-Huge wiring route covered by pickguard
-Bolt on neck
-No Truss rod cover
-Non recessed back plate
-Solid colour and poly finish.

Sure it's machines doing stuff like cutting out the headstock logo and the edge for the binding but that's still more time the body is on a CNC. Then someone has to spend time inserting the inlays and gluing the binding on.


Nope, you don't understand. I really don't think you understand where the money goes on high-end guitars.

Quote by |Long|
But it's not.

The hours that go into a strat are miniscule compared to any guitar with carved top. The set neck takes more time than a bolt on to put together.

Maybe if you compare a flat top Epi LP to a Gibby, or maybe a Epi SG to a Gibby SG, but the expensive LPs require far more work to put together.


I'm really not sure what you're trying to say here. That just means that to get the same level of construction on a strat or flat-top style guitar in general it takes less time. I am very much confused by what point you're trying to make with this.
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peskypesky
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#25
I'm an unabashed Squier fan. I have 7 Strats, 5 of which are Squiers. From Bullets on up to a Classic Vibe and then to a MIJ SQ-series from the early 80s.
kangaxxter
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#26
Generally, Fenders are better than Squiers, and the difference is both noticeable and worth it. There is some overlap in the cheap Fenders and costlier Squiers, but it holds true with most models. It's important to always play and compare the guitar you want to buy before you buy it.
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JustRooster
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#27
I would take an MIM over a CV every day all day. You guys are nuts.

Quote by EyeNon15
Thats too bad, I was under the impression I was arguing something profound

Mephaphil
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#28
Quote by JustRooster
I would take an MIM over a CV every day all day. You guys are nuts.


Finally. Someone said it. /hug.
Quote by Shredwizard445
Go ahead and spend your money, I don't care. It won't make you sound better.


Quote by Shredwizard445
Sure upgrading your gear will make you sound better.


MegadethFan18
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#29
Quote by W4RP1G
I still don't get the point that you're trying to make. It almost sounds like you believe the only thing that matters in a guitar is the materials used, which is absurd. Even more absurd when I recall you arguing that tonewoods don't exist for electric guitars in the past.

Please, help me understand what you're saying.


That a MIM Strat has a similar spec sheet to the Affinity Strat and I was surprised by this. That's the entire point.

Have you never seen two similar things and been surprised?
Zaphod_Beeblebr
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#30
Quote by MegadethFan18
That a MIM Strat has a similar spec sheet to the Affinity Strat and I was surprised by this. That's the entire point.

Have you never seen two similar things and been surprised?


That's it?

That confirms it then: you do not understand where the money goes on higher-end guitars if you think that a spec sheet makes the guitar.
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MegadethFan18
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#31
Quote by Zaphod_Beeblebr
That's it?

That confirms it then: you do not understand where the money goes on higher-end guitars if you think that a spec sheet makes the guitar.


I wouldn't call a £400 guitar high end by any stretch of the word.
Zaphod_Beeblebr
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#32
Quote by MegadethFan18
I wouldn't call a £400 guitar high end by any stretch of the word.


Higher. The relative term rather than the absolute "high". The money doesn't go on the spec sheet. Not past about £200.
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LP1951
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#33
Quote by treysonpwaters
cv50 tele is pine.....same material original teles were made on for years. they switched to alder bc it held paint better. cv classic is alder.

cv classic tele has better hardware in every aspect than a mim tele. it has a better finish as well. the only thing better in a mim is the lable. the classic vibes ive played were all better built than most all mim standards ive played. not to say there arent good mims.




None of that is correct. Fender switched to ash not alder because it was a much better grade of wood than pine. No way the hardware, wood or anything else about a squier is better than the parts of a MIM.

There may be some decent squier Teles but I've never played one that I liked better than my MIM Standard.
Maximus_2005
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#34
Quote by JustRooster
I would take an MIM over a CV every day all day. You guys are nuts.


+1

Also I don't think it's right to say the squier has better pickups then a mim strat. The mims are wound hotter and are ceramic where as squiers are more vintage styled and alinco.

Just preference really ...



And both have cheap electronics....
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MegadethFan18
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#35
Quote by Zaphod_Beeblebr
Higher. The relative term rather than the absolute "high". The money doesn't go on the spec sheet. Not past about £200.


I absolutely agree.

They keep the spec sheet to a minimum. If they specified how many pieces of wood a body was made from and what grade of wood was used, where it was joined etc. it would make manufacturing more expensive. If an MIA Strat was spec'd:

"one piece grade AAA Alder" they wouldn't be able to make two or three piece bodies and would have a lot of waste wood.

but by simply saying:

"Alder"

They can glue together 10 pieces of shite Alder and they are still within the specifications .
Last edited by MegadethFan18 at Dec 25, 2012,
JustRooster
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#36
The Owner Bias in this thread is incredible.

MIM Standard Strats and Teles are 5-Piece select Alder. CV Strats and Teles are smatterings of whatever was left. Lowest grade wood. The Mexican Fender factory has a PLEK machine. The Chinese factories don't. MIM's come with Alnico V's, the CV's have the lower output and muddier Alnico III's. MIM teles now come stock shielded, CV's don't. 3ply vs 1play pickguards, 18:1 vs 12:1 tuners, etc... etc... etc...

The only people who I ever try to convince me that the CV's are better than the MIM's are owners of CV's.

Quote by EyeNon15
Thats too bad, I was under the impression I was arguing something profound

LP1951
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#37
Quote by Maximus_2005
+1

Also I don't think it's right to say the squier has better pickups then a mim strat. The mims are wound hotter and are ceramic where as squiers are more vintage styled and alinco.

Just preference really ...





I love the ceramics in my MIM, great for blues and rock.
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Zaphod_Beeblebr
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#38
Quote by MegadethFan18
I absolutely agree.

They keep the spec sheet to a minimum. If they specified how many pieces of wood a body was made from and what grade of wood was used, where it was joined etc. it make manufacturing more expensive. If an MIA Strat was spec'd:

"one piece grade AAA Alder" they wouldn't be able to make two or three piece bodies and would have a lot of waste wood.

but by simply saying:

"Alder"

They can glue together 10 pieces of shite Alder and they are still with in the specifications .


You still don't seem to understand: the spec sheet, no matter how precise it is, is less than 50% of the story when it comes to a guitar.

The build quality is one of the biggest things that makes up how good a guitar is and it's not something you can put on a spec sheet at all. For example: an Ibanez RG321 looks like it has much the same spec sheet as my RG1527 aside from the really obvious things like pickups and tremolo... but it wouldn't feel the same. At all.

That is what you're missing; it's not just the parts that make up the guitar.
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Alucard817
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#39
Quote by JustRooster
MIM's come with Alnico V's, the CV's have the lower output and muddier Alnico III's.

That's not entirely true. Some CV's come with Alnico V's and three ply PG.
CV 60's Strat is just one model.
http://www.fender.com/products/classic-vibe-stratocaster-60s
Quote by FatalGear41
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I think he's a Fender Jazz guy.
Blompcube
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#40
Quote by JustRooster
The only people who I ever try to convince me that the CV's are better than the MIM's are owners of CV's.

this.

i must admit i do want a CV '50s tele. Because i just like the CV '50s tele spec better than anything fender makes that isn't an AVRI, honestly. but i think the hype about them supposedly being better than MIMs is actually stopping me from buying one - let me explain:

I have plenty of MIMs to compare the CVs to. If the CVs are as good as people say they are, why is it that every time i go and try one i end up thinking the one i get to play must be one of the crap ones? Even if i end up kinda liking it, i think "well, these are supposed to be better than MIMs, and this one just isn't, so i'll pass, and wait until i find a better one". But a better one just never comes along.

Have i just been exceedingly unlucky and found nothing but crap compared to what all the guys talking about how awesome the CVs are have found? or have those guys just dropped lucky on an occasional good one?

or, taking luck out of the equation, are these guitars just overrated?
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