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stryde41
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#1
I'm currently looking to buy a new guitar, and have had some trouble finding one thats right for what i need to play. I need a guitar that is able to withstand low tunings (c, b, and a) and need help finding one that can play fluently with good note definition. Any ideas?
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jeleopard
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#3
Any guitar can tune low, but guitars with longer scale lengths, to my ear, have more clarity. Some disagree with that, but **** them, I hear it :P That said, the Ibanez RGD series is nice. 26.5" scale, plenty of clarity.
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#4
Quote by jeleopard
Any guitar can tune low, but guitars with longer scale lengths, to my ear, have more clarity. Some disagree with that, but **** them, I hear it :P That said, the Ibanez RGD series is nice. 26.5" scale, plenty of clarity.

It doesn't actually work like that, string tension, not a longer scale length, is what give a guitar it's so-called 'clarity'.
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jeleopard
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#5
Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
It doesn't actually work like that, string tension, not a longer scale length, is what give a guitar it's so-called 'clarity'.



Hehehe. See?
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#6
Quote by jeleopard
Hehehe. See?

The only thing i'm seeing is your ignorance.
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LightxGrenade
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#7
Are you looking into getting a 7 string guitar, you can get that added range you want. Or you can check out a guitar like the PRS SE Mike Mushok Baritone which is a 6 string that's specifically built for lower guitar tunings.
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#8
Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
It doesn't actually work like that, string tension, not a longer scale length, is what give a guitar it's so-called 'clarity'.


Last time I checked, one of the results of a longer scale length was greater string tension......
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#10
Quote by Arby911
Last time I checked, one of the results of a longer scale length was greater string tension......


That's what I was thinking.

By the way TS, putting thicker strings on your guitar helps with drop tunings too.

As for guitars, we need a budget and preferences. See the sticky.
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dannyalcatraz
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#11
Get what you want- my Dean Cadillac has been tuned to CGDAEG for almost a decade, and its 24 3/4" scale. The C is a 052. No issues. I have a longer scale hollowbody in the same tuning.

That said, I'm having a custom guitar made for the same tuning, and it will be of a slightly longer scale length (25" or 25 1/2", I forget at the moment). But the reason for the longer scale length is economy- that luthier traditionally works in that scale, and changing that would incur some additional costs. (Its being made because it will be a HSS guitar, as opposed to my Cadillac, which is HHH.)
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MrFlibble
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#12
Quote by Arby911
Last time I checked, one of the results of a longer scale length was greater string tension......
... Unless you put on lighter strings.

The point being made is that it is the tension—however you get to that result— that matters, not the scale length.

OP, literally anything will do what you want. There isn't a single guitar in the world that can't be drop-tuned and 'good for metal' simply means 'not a hollowbody with single coils'. You need to be more specific; tone, bridge style, pickup and control style, etc.
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bArny_44
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#13
Why don't you check out 7/8strings from schecter and ibanez
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#14
Quote by MrFlibble
... Unless you put on lighter strings.
The point being made is that it is the tension—however you get to that result— that matters, not the scale length.

OP, literally anything will do what you want. There isn't a single guitar in the world that can't be drop-tuned and 'good for metal' simply means 'not a hollowbody with single coils'. You need to be more specific; tone, bridge style, pickup and control style, etc.


Agreed, but that wasn't a parameter in question.
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Heideck
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#15
Longer scales will make that you need lighter strings to achieve the tension you want
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#16
Quote by Heideck
Longer scales will make that you need lighter strings to achieve the tension you want


Huh?
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#17
Quote by Arby911
Agreed, but that wasn't a parameter in question.

The only thing the context of what Jeleopard suggested that would give a guitar more 'clarity' is it's scale length, when it is actually string tension, not the scale length that gives you more clarity.

If you actually read the rest of offworld's post, he points out that its the tension that matters, not the length of the scale.
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Last edited by T00DEEPBLUE at Dec 27, 2012,
Arby911
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#18
Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
The only thing the context of what Jeleopard suggested that would give a guitar more 'clarity' is it's scale length, when it is actually string tension, not the scale length that gives you more clarity.

If you actually read the rest of offworld's post, he points out that its the tension that matters, not the length of the scale.


Yes dear, I'm aware of that, although I'd say 'string tension' is even a somewhat simplistic answer, since 'clarity' is also found (perhaps primarily found? I'm sure opinions vary...) in technique.

Don't take my word for it, ask Billy Gibbons....

As for the "If you actually read the rest" nonsense, go be a pedantic twat elsewhere.
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#19
Quote by Arby911
Yes dear, I'm aware of that, although I'd say 'string tension' is even a somewhat simplistic answer, since 'clarity' is also found (perhaps primarily found? I'm sure opinions vary...) in technique.

Don't take my word for it, ask Billy Gibbons....

If you're playing 9's in drop A, you're not going to have very much clarity in your sound, mang. Its not like the guitar setup itself doesn't play a part in it.
Quote by Arby911

As for the "If you actually read the rest" nonsense, go be a pedantic twat elsewhere.

Whilst you're at it, go get a mob to wipe your own butthurt off the floor.

Seriously, if you're going to try to be a dick, i'm going to be a dick.
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Last edited by T00DEEPBLUE at Dec 27, 2012,
Arby911
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#20
Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
If you're playing 9's in drop A, you're not going to have very much clarity in your sound, mang. Its not like the guitar setup itself doesn't play a part in it.


Which has better clarity, 12-60's in Drop B or 8-42's in E standard?
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#21
Quote by Arby911
Which has better clarity, 12-60's in Drop B or 8-42's in E standard?

Here's an idea: Why do you find out for yourself?
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Arby911
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#22
Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Here's an idea: Why do you find out for yourself?


C'mon now, don't dodge the question, I'm simply looking for information like everyone else here.
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#23
Quote by Arby911
C'mon now, don't dodge the question, I'm simply looking for information like everyone else here.

How do you expect me to answer such a silly question? There are far too many variables .

You don't really care what the answer is anyway.
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#24
Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
How do you expect me to answer such a silly question? There are far too many variables .
You don't really care what the answer is anyway.


Indeed.......thanks.
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jeleopard
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#25
Well, I mean, I've put my Jackson in low tunings, and have put my Ibanez RGD in the same tunings with the same strings in, and it's sounded better, so... Scale length has something to do with clarity :P

Also, I'm not the only one who hears it SOOOO....

http://www.seymourduncan.com/forum/showthread.php?129104-Scale-length-for-guitars&p=1644425&viewfull=1#post1644425

No reason to be such an asshole, T00
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Last edited by jeleopard at Dec 27, 2012,
stryde41
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#26
Up to $500 is my budget, maybe more, and I rather not use a 7 string unless its really recommended, I've never played one, I'm used to just the standard 6 string
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#27
Quote by jeleopard
Well, I mean, I've put my Jackson in low tunings, and have put my Ibanez RGD in the same tunings with the same strings in, and it's sounded better, so... Scale length has something to do with clarity :P

Also, I'm not the only one who hears it SOOOO....

http://www.seymourduncan.com/forum/showthread.php?129104-Scale-length-for-guitars&p=1644425&viewfull=1#post1644425

No reason to be such an asshole, T00

I hope you didn't forget to realize that your pickups and the materials used to make both guitars are in fact completely different? Didn't think that such variables had something to do with it?
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jeleopard
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#28
Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
I hope you didn't forget to realize that your pickups and the materials used to make both guitars are in fact completely different? Didn't think that such variables had something to do with it?


Well, yes, but unplugged? :P And yes, I've played a downtuned basswood Ibanez 25.5" scale to compare it. 26.5" is still much clearer.
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#29
Quote by jeleopard
Well, yes, but unplugged? :P And yes, I've played a downtuned basswood Ibanez 25.5" scale to compare it. 26.5" is still much clearer.

If you have the same string tension on both guitars, the only person you're fooling is yourself.

Did you also take into account that the strings on one might be a lot older than on the other guitar? If so, then there's your answer.
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jeleopard
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#30
Fresh strings, same thing.

Explain Multi-scale guitars, then. It makes a difference in tone, T00. Many agree with me.
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#31
Quote by jeleopard
Fresh strings, same thing.

Explain Multi-scale guitars, then. It makes a difference in tone, T00. Many agree with me.

The reason why it makes a difference in tone is not because of the scale length, but because of the increase of string tension on the lower strings with a multi-scale length neck. You're constantly making the mistake of thinking that a longer scale length gives you more clarity in your tone, but that is because the strings have a higher tension. The reason why it does that is because the scale length increases the tension of the strings, but you can have heavier strings on a shorter scale-length guitar and create essentially the same effect. Having a longer scale length doesn't automatically mean more clarity. If that was the case, we'd all have bass necks on our guitars.
The string tension is what matters, not the scale length.
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Last edited by T00DEEPBLUE at Dec 29, 2012,
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#32
Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
The reason why it makes a difference in tone is not because of the scale length, but because of the increase of string tension on the lower strings with a multi-scale length neck. You're constantly making the mistake of thinking that a longer scale length gives you more clarity in your tone, but that is because the strings have a higher tension. The reason why it does that is because the scale length increases the tension of the strings, but you can have heavier strings on a shorter scale-length guitar and create essentially the same effect. Having a longer scale length doesn't automatically mean more clarity. If that was the case, we'd all have bass necks on our guitars.
The string tension is what matters, not the scale length.


Exactly. A 26.5" neck drop tuned with an 8-42 set of strings will sound like mud compared to a 24.75" neck with a set of 13-56 strings for example. The reason for this is that on the 26.5" guitar, though the strings are stretched more, they'll still be like spaghetti. However, a 26.5" guitar with a set of 13-56 strings will have much greater string tension than that on the 24.75" neck, causing it to have more "clarity". So the SAME STRINGS on a guitar with a longer scale length will have more clarity, due to the increased tension.
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jeleopard
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#33
From the scale length... which is what I was saying...
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#34
Its arbitrary to say that a guitar has more clarity because it has a longer scale length when you can compensate for a shorter length with heavier strings. It's down to the way the guitar is set up.
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Last edited by T00DEEPBLUE at Dec 29, 2012,
Arby911
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#35
Here let me help!

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dannyalcatraz
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#36
But what is the scale length and tension of the horse?
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alhaq369
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#37
**** you i'm alive!
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#38
Quote by dannyalcatraz
But what is the scale length and tension of the horse?


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#39
Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
**** you i'm alive!

wat

Scale length does have something to do with it. All other things being equal, a longer scale length will sound a bit snappier (even if the shorter scale lengths have equal tension). Thinner strings sound a bit brighter than thicker ones.
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You CAN play anything with anything....but some guitars sound right for some things, and not for others. Single coils sound retarded for metal, though those who are apeshit about harpsichord probably beg to differ.
Last edited by oneblackened at Dec 31, 2012,