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LP1951
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#1
I have owned vintage late 80s Kramers and early 2000s Gibson/Kramers and they are among the best guitars that I have ever owned including my Gibsons and Fenders.

Why do you think Gibson has been unable to revive the brand and get dealers to stock Kramers again?

Here's an excellent article about how Kramer became the best selling guitar brand in the World:

http://www.guitar-list.com/brands/kramer

"Kramer’s artist roster quickly rose to house the biggest, baddest, meanest, loudest, fastest, and best Guitar Stars in the world. The Kramer roster was obviously led by Eddie Van Halen, who took the Kramer and Floyd Rose combination to heights never even conceived by existing guitarists. The story goes like this - Eddie had been interested in finding a tremolo that stayed in tune, which would be more stable and versatile than existing tremolos.

When a meeting between Eddie Van Halen and Kramer execs took place, Eddie was quickly sold on the opportunity and he reportedly quipped that he would help make Kramer the “#1 guitar company in the world.”

Well, that did happen! Kramer became the world’s best selling guitar in the mid-80s, passing the historic and iconic Gibson and Fender brands. Coincidentally 2009 marks the 25th anniversary of the merger of an artist, a guitar and a tremolo to give birth to the most recognizable guitar in Rock-n-roll history."
“You’re always learning about this thing every time you pick it up.” Keith Richards
Last edited by LP1951 at Dec 31, 2012,
digman50
Can't you hear me knockin
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#3
No-one wants to be in a hiar metal band nowadays?
'And after a while, you can work on points for style.
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Mephaphil
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#4
I like the new thread rules

I miss hair metal! Bring back Kramer! (I don't miss hair metal...)
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LP1951
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#5
Quote by peskypesky
because Nirvana came along and killed hair metal?


Yes, tis true, but Ibanez, Jackson and ESP continue to get their guitars stocked at Music stores. Why do no dealers stock Kramers? You would think that with all its clout, Gibson could get Kramers stocked. I've never seen a new Kramer in stock anywhere.
“You’re always learning about this thing every time you pick it up.” Keith Richards
TunerAddict
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#6
The Kramer guitars they are putting out are pretty cool, so I'm not quite sure what the problem is.
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JustRooster
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#7
As said before, Kramer went bankrupt. Their guitars were made from cheap materials, often is sub-par factories. Why would Gibson produce something for low profit for a niche market?

Quote by EyeNon15
Thats too bad, I was under the impression I was arguing something profound

Last edited by JustRooster at Dec 28, 2012,
TunerAddict
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#8
Quote by JustRooster
As said before, Kramer went bankrupt. Their guitars were made from cheap materials, often is sub-par factories. Why would Gibson produce something for low profit for a niche market?


Boom in glam metal coverbands?
Quote by jrcsgtpeppers

If women can be annoyed there arent any women incongress I should be allowed to be pissed off there are no members of pink floyd or the beatles in congress.
LP1951
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#9
Quote by JustRooster
As said before, Kramer went bankrupt. Their guitars were made from cheap materials, often is sub-par factories.


True the old company went bankrupt and their low end guitars were junk, but their high end American Series Guitars (Showster, ProAxe & Stagemaster) are top quality, beautifully designed guitars, some of the best I have ever owned.
“You’re always learning about this thing every time you pick it up.” Keith Richards
MrFlibble
Puts a bangin' donk on it
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#10
I wasn't aware that Gibson had ''failed'' to bring Kramer back, considering they've been adding more models to the line-up and apparently been selling consistently well, well enough for them to start using name-brand parts and up production.

Seems to me like a bunch of people going "hurrrr my local tiny store doesn't have any Kramers in so lolol big mean evil company must have ****ed up HA HA "
Yes, I know everything. No, I can't play worth a damn.
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#11
Quote by MrFlibble

Seems to me like a bunch of people going "hurrrr my local tiny store doesn't have any Kramers in so lolol big mean evil company must have ****ed up HA HA "


Pretty much.


Also, someone at HC scored one of those Striker 211s with the Floyd for like $150 and I was jealous as hell. So they are out there and there are deals to be found.
Quote by jrcsgtpeppers

If women can be annoyed there arent any women incongress I should be allowed to be pissed off there are no members of pink floyd or the beatles in congress.
LP1951
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#12
Quote by MrFlibble
I wasn't aware that Gibson had ''failed'' to bring Kramer back, considering they've been adding more models to the line-up and apparently been selling consistently well, well enough for them to start using name-brand parts and up production.

Seems to me like a bunch of people going "hurrrr my local tiny store doesn't have any Kramers in so lolol big mean evil company must have ****ed up HA HA "


I have never seen a new Kramer in a music store and Gibson had at least 3 times as many Kramer models in the early 2000s as they do now. There are Sam Ash and Guitar Center mega stores in Nashville, in addition to other large stores and small stores and there are no new Kramers stocked anywhere and Nashville is the hometown of Gibson.

Anybody seen a new Kramer in stock at any music store anywhere in the US. I saw one used Kramer at Guitar Center about 6 months ago.

Other than the reissues, the Kramer FR422 & FR424 got the best reviews, but those models were discontinued. Maybe it was just too expensive to continue making such high quality quitars for resale through dealers. When Gibson had Musicyo.com they could sell high quality guitars at wholesale prices.
“You’re always learning about this thing every time you pick it up.” Keith Richards
Last edited by LP1951 at Dec 28, 2012,
ihartfood
Potato Faced Blind Man
Join date: Mar 2012
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#13
Yeah, Charvels are pretty sexy man.
but I really like Kramers as well.
I don't even think Guitar Center stocks them, which is kinda frustrating. I want one of the new Striker models but I'm not really willing to buy one sight unseen.
JustRooster
Internet Bully
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#14
Quote by ChucklesMginty
Why would you want a Kramer when you can get a Charvel?



There's something to be said for that hockey stick headstock.

Quote by EyeNon15
Thats too bad, I was under the impression I was arguing something profound

T00DEEPBLUE
Boba FRETT
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#15
Imo, the new Kramers are actually very cool guitars. They're selling well too.
Regarding the furry fandom from the man himself:
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Last edited by T00DEEPBLUE at Dec 28, 2012,
LP1951
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Join date: Dec 2012
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#16
Quote by ChucklesMginty
Why would you want a Kramer when you can get a Charvel?


Because I like the Kramer necks and bodies better. In fact, I like them better than any other guitar I have owned or played.
“You’re always learning about this thing every time you pick it up.” Keith Richards
TuningGamer
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#17
Wasn't it Hamer that went bankrupt recently? Kramer are still out there, IIRC.

Kramer is cool, it sounds Dutch (although it isn't, but whatever).
Gear:

Guitars:
LTD Viper 100FM
Ibanez RG320PG P2 (For sale*)
Ibanez RGA32 (w/ IronGear pups)
Epiphone Pro-1

Amps:
Vox VT15
or
Vox Tonelab EX
- through -
Peavey KB-300

* = PM me for more details


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The actual correct answer
LP1951
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#19
Do dealers stock Kramers in Europe?
“You’re always learning about this thing every time you pick it up.” Keith Richards
MaaZeus
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#20
Quote by LP1951
Yes, tis true, but Ibanez, Jackson and ESP continue to get their guitars stocked at Music stores. Why do no dealers stock Kramers? You would think that with all its clout, Gibson could get Kramers stocked. I've never seen a new Kramer in stock anywhere.



That is a good question. According to Kramer website they have a million dealers through the europe, but NONE of them had a single Kramer guitar in stock. Kinda sad because I fell in love with Nite V body shape the moment I saw it. Nice change of pace from both sharp pointy ones and boringly round Epi/Gibsons.

ESP LTD F-50 + Tonezone
Cort EVL-Z4 + X2N
Cort EVL-K47B

Marshall Valvestate 8100
Randall RG1503
Bugera 333
Peavey Rockmaster preamp

Line6 Pod X3
LP1951
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#21
Quote by MaaZeus
That is a good question. According to Kramer website they have a million dealers through the europe, but NONE of them had a single Kramer guitar in stock. Kinda sad because I fell in love with Nite V body shape the moment I saw it. Nice change of pace from both sharp pointy ones and boringly round Epi/Gibsons.


I did a store selector search for Tennessee and it listed Guitar Center in Nashville, but I visit that store about once a week and I have never seen a new Kramer in stock
“You’re always learning about this thing every time you pick it up.” Keith Richards
dannyalcatraz
Black Cherry Jello
Join date: Dec 2008
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#22
I've seen the same thing happen with other brands as well (Godin, G&L, and Blade, for example)- they'll be listed as a retailer in the manufacturer's site, but the will be nothing in stock. Best advice: ask the store manager.

It might be that they only handle them via special orders or through their website.
Sturgeon's 2nd Law, a.k.a. Sturgeon's Revelation: “Ninety percent of everything is crap.”

Why, yes, I am a lawyer- thanks for asking!


alhaq369
It is very impotent to success a business.
Last edited by dannyalcatraz at Dec 28, 2012,
MaaZeus
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#23
Quote by dannyalcatraz
I've seen the same thing happen with other brands as well (Godin, G&L, and Blade, for example)- they'll be listed as a retailer in the manufacturer's site, but the will be nothing in stock. Best advice: ask the store manager.

It might be that they only handle them via special orders or through their website.



Yes, but I was talking about online dealers. I browsed through the websites (few UK and few German with english shops) and none of them even mentioned Kramer anywhere.

ESP LTD F-50 + Tonezone
Cort EVL-Z4 + X2N
Cort EVL-K47B

Marshall Valvestate 8100
Randall RG1503
Bugera 333
Peavey Rockmaster preamp

Line6 Pod X3
LP1951
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#24
Quote by dannyalcatraz
I've seen the same thing happen with other brands as well (Godin, G&L, and Blade, for example)- they'll be listed as a retailer in the manufacturer's site, but the will be nothing in stock. Best advice: ask the store manager.

It might be that they only handle them via special orders or through their website.


Good idea! Maybe if I ask the manager to see a Kramer every week, they'll stock one or two.

How does Gibson expect to sell those guitars if you can't find a demo anywhere in the World?

When I bought my FR422s wholesale from musicyo.com, Gibson had a 90 day return policy. I figured that if it was junk, I could return it and all I was out was shipping, so I bought one and I liked it so much I ordered 2 more. One had a great neck but the FR wasn't setup properly, so I took the neck off and put it on the keeper and then returned the other one to the plant in Nashville, so I didn't even have to pay for return shipping.
“You’re always learning about this thing every time you pick it up.” Keith Richards
Alucard817
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#25
I too like the newer Kramers (Striker 211 is sexy as hell) and these guitars can do a hell of a lot more than just hair metal. Newer Kramers are very versatile.

When I walk into the local GC all I see are damn Ibanez guitars. Gibson, Fenders, or hell even Deans are few in number, but theres a shit load of Ibanez guitars.

I really wish they would stock more Kramers and other "lesser known" companies guitars.
Quote by FatalGear41
In the end, the only question is: what bass would Jesus play?

I think he's a Fender Jazz guy.
peskypesky
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#26
Quote by Alucard817

When I walk into the local GC all I see are damn Ibanez guitars. Gibson, Fenders, or hell even Deans are few in number, but theres a shit load of Ibanez guitars.


Hmm. I usually see some Godins and Gretsches and Music Mans also.
dannyalcatraz
Black Cherry Jello
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#27
Quote by MaaZeus
Yes, but I was talking about online dealers. I browsed through the websites (few UK and few German with english shops) and none of them even mentioned Kramer anywhere.

I understand, but my statement still stands- try finding something like a Richmond (Godin) or Blade guitar, and you'll see the same thing. They have retailers listed on their site, with links, but when you go to the links, there's nary a Richmond or Blade in "site." I even contacted Richmond to verify that the guitar in question was still in production. So far, I've found it only at one store in Wisconsin.

I can't really explain it beyond maybe it could be that these brands are sold on special order only. Or that manufacturers and retailers are not updating their websites as frequently as they might.

FWIW, I've encountered the same thing with pickup companies. They'll list "X Brand" uses our pickups, but when you go looking, you can't see evidence of the claim. Or you can, and its a discontinued model. Or its an option that is buried in a host of other options.
Sturgeon's 2nd Law, a.k.a. Sturgeon's Revelation: “Ninety percent of everything is crap.”

Why, yes, I am a lawyer- thanks for asking!


alhaq369
It is very impotent to success a business.
Last edited by dannyalcatraz at Dec 28, 2012,
digman50
Can't you hear me knockin
Join date: Sep 2008
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#28
Quote by LP1951
Yes, tis true, but Ibanez, Jackson and ESP continue to get their guitars stocked at Music stores. Why do no dealers stock Kramers? You would think that with all its clout, Gibson could get Kramers stocked. I've never seen a new Kramer in stock anywhere.


That's because Ibanez, Jackson and ESP are all used by the random new metal bands and Asian people.

Who uses Kramer guitars?

The only guitarist I can think of is Satchel from Steel Panther.

Again, why Kramer when you can Charvel?
'And after a while, you can work on points for style.
Like the club tie, and the firm handshake,
A certain look in the eye and an easy smile.'

'You have to be trusted by the people that you lie to,
So that when they turn their backs on you,
You'll get the chance to put the knife in.'
peskypesky
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#29
Quote by digman50

Again, why Kramer when you can Charvel?


or Jackson?


Last edited by peskypesky at Dec 28, 2012,
Alucard817
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#30
Quote by peskypesky
Hmm. I usually see some Godins and Gretsches and Music Mans also.

My local GC will stock the MM basses, but I've never seen a MM guitar there.
Quote by digman50
Again, why Kramer when you can Charvel?

Quote by peskypesky
or Jackson?

Personal preference.
Quote by FatalGear41
In the end, the only question is: what bass would Jesus play?

I think he's a Fender Jazz guy.
TuningGamer
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#31
Quote by MaaZeus
Yes, but I was talking about online dealers. I browsed through the websites (few UK and few German with english shops) and none of them even mentioned Kramer anywhere.


http://www.thomann.de/gb/kramer_guitars.html
Gear:

Guitars:
LTD Viper 100FM
Ibanez RG320PG P2 (For sale*)
Ibanez RGA32 (w/ IronGear pups)
Epiphone Pro-1

Amps:
Vox VT15
or
Vox Tonelab EX
- through -
Peavey KB-300

* = PM me for more details


Quote by Willowthewitch

The actual correct answer
dannyalcatraz
Black Cherry Jello
Join date: Dec 2008
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#32
Just recently discovered Thomann's Guitar Lab- that's a handy tool!
Sturgeon's 2nd Law, a.k.a. Sturgeon's Revelation: “Ninety percent of everything is crap.”

Why, yes, I am a lawyer- thanks for asking!


alhaq369
It is very impotent to success a business.
RockGuitarist09
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#33
I think every dealer than can get Gibson's can get Kramers. My local don't list them, but i went and asked and they ordered me a Kramer Pacer Classic. Great guitar, especially for the price.
LP1951
Registered User
Join date: Dec 2012
346 IQ
#34
Personally I hate the Jackson necks. Ibanez are better, but my Kramers have the best necks of any of the guitars that I have tried.
“You’re always learning about this thing every time you pick it up.” Keith Richards
LP1951
Registered User
Join date: Dec 2012
346 IQ
#35
Quote by Alucard817
I too like the newer Kramers (Striker 211 is sexy as hell) and these guitars can do a hell of a lot more than just hair metal. Newer Kramers are very versatile.

When I walk into the local GC all I see are damn Ibanez guitars. Gibson, Fenders, or hell even Deans are few in number, but theres a shit load of Ibanez guitars.

I really wish they would stock more Kramers and other "lesser known" companies guitars.


GC has had loads of Ibanez guitars for as long as I can remember and they promote the heck out of them. GC must have a super deal with Ibanez or maybe they own Ibanez stock shares.
“You’re always learning about this thing every time you pick it up.” Keith Richards
MaaZeus
Registered User
Join date: Sep 2012
409 IQ
#36
Quote by TuningGamer



I stand corrected. But I was looking for V's when I searched for Kramers in Thomann, so thats why I didnt see them...

ESP LTD F-50 + Tonezone
Cort EVL-Z4 + X2N
Cort EVL-K47B

Marshall Valvestate 8100
Randall RG1503
Bugera 333
Peavey Rockmaster preamp

Line6 Pod X3
Alucard817
Registered User
Join date: May 2010
1,443 IQ
#37
Quote by LP1951
Personally I hate the Jackson necks. Ibanez are better, but my Kramers have the best necks of any of the guitars that I have tried.

I'm not a fan of either personally. They feel too thin for my tastes, but my Kramer neck is buttery goodness.
Quote by LP1951
GC has had loads of Ibanez guitars for as long as I can remember and they promote the heck out of them. GC must have a super deal with Ibanez or maybe they own Ibanez stock shares.

I think GC is catering to all the hype and fanboys.
Quote by FatalGear41
In the end, the only question is: what bass would Jesus play?

I think he's a Fender Jazz guy.
Maximus_2005
Registered User
Join date: Jul 2012
13 IQ
#38
What makes these Kramer necks so good?
"evil esteban"
if this thing melts again i'm takin' it to bugera headquarters, puttin' a bag of fecal matter on it, ringin' the doorbell and flippin the switch from "standby" to "on", and running.

"tubetime86"
This wasnt even a cool story... Bro.
peskypesky
Registered User
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133 IQ
#39
Quote by Maximus_2005
What makes these Kramer necks so good?


magick
Alucard817
Registered User
Join date: May 2010
1,443 IQ
#40
Quote by Maximus_2005
What makes these Kramer necks so good?

For me the fretboard isn't ridiculously thin, and the actual neck is a little wider. I've always hated the ultra thin necks and ultra skinny fret boards.

As with any guitar neck it always comes down to preference.
Quote by FatalGear41
In the end, the only question is: what bass would Jesus play?

I think he's a Fender Jazz guy.