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#81
Quote by AtaBorMan
Just use some common sense, you don't have to do something just because you can.

Pretty much this. I don't avoid swearing at people generally in case they can arrest me, I avoid it because it's rude and mostly needless.

However, aye if they're being a dick you should be able to as much as anyone else. It's a personal issue, not a legal one.

I guess the problem is, being a representative of the law it is very easy to blur the two and use legal powers for personal matters. In their role as a policeman they shouldn't care that you swore at them, they should only care as a person. Unfortunately, you can't really just keep two sides of yourself separate like that.
It would be understandable if they did, but no, they shouldn't be able to do anything legally about it.
#82
As a police officer of 40+ years, I have some opinions... Most coppers have pretty thick skins. I've been called just about everything you can think of and likely some things you can't....
Mostly you learn to just fluff it off. You (or if you want to stay sane you do...) learn that for the most part, you are encountering people at their worst. They are emotionally overwrought, drunk, just been in a fight, whatever....
They are not pleased to see you....
As with juicy young guys flipping you the bird or whatever... I think it's funny. Young lads either showing off for their buddies or trying to prove to themselves how tough they are....
They'll grow up at some point.

Now that's me, though, and most of the more-mature coppers I know. But there is a mindset among certian police officers that they have to have "respect". By this they generally mean "fear".
They will take almost anything as a slight and react strongly to it. I personally think these guys have self-esteem problems, which is perhaps why they got into police work to begin with. Most progressive departments try not to hire such folks these days.
#83
Quote by magnus_maximus
It's funny that in America, a nation where people hate welfare recipients and such because they despise the "entitlement" culture, they feel their rights "entitle" them to firearms and being a dick.

We aren't simply given guns by the government.
#84
Quote by Bikewer
As a police officer of 40+ years, I have some opinions... Most coppers have pretty thick skins. I've been called just about everything you can think of and likely some things you can't....
Mostly you learn to just fluff it off. You (or if you want to stay sane you do...) learn that for the most part, you are encountering people at their worst. They are emotionally overwrought, drunk, just been in a fight, whatever....
They are not pleased to see you....
As with juicy young guys flipping you the bird or whatever... I think it's funny. Young lads either showing off for their buddies or trying to prove to themselves how tough they are....
They'll grow up at some point.

Now that's me, though, and most of the more-mature coppers I know. But there is a mindset among certian police officers that they have to have "respect". By this they generally mean "fear".
They will take almost anything as a slight and react strongly to it. I personally think these guys have self-esteem problems, which is perhaps why they got into police work to begin with. Most progressive departments try not to hire such folks these days.

Yeah I don't really understand the idea that as well as getting the job done, people require some odd "respect".

Police are people like anyone else and deserve the same respect that you'd give anyone else. Similarly people deserve respect from the police that deal with them. Police shouldn't be put on a pedastal, they're there to help you. However as such... don't be a dick, respect that they're their to help people and let them do their jobs. Unfortunately though, I'm guessing a large number of criminals are people who don't respect other people, or else they wouldn't do the stuff they do.

I guess it can be quite frustrating doing a job that tries to help people and yet every day received the worst side of people's personalities. But I guess if someone can't handle someone just being a bit of a dick and ignore it, they shouldn't be doing that job.
#85
Last night an off-duty Kansas City Cop died in a car wreck because he wasn't wearing his seatbelt. Being that his day job is to write people expensive tickets for not wearing their seatbelts, it warranted a little chuckle from all in the room.
/barely relevant

But no, I've never understood some peoples' lack of self control. I firmly believe that there are a decent crop of police who've forgotten that they are servants to the public and not the other way around. But when I get pulled over it's "Yes officer/No sir." and nothing more.
Better, Faster, Stronger

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Kansas State Wildcats
Quote by airbrendie
Hey guys in the last 3 weeks I ****ed all the girls in this picture, what do you think?

Last edited by VanTheKraut at Jan 3, 2013,
#86
Quote by VanTheKraut
Last night an off-duty Kansas City Cop died in a car wreck because he wasn't wearing his seatbelt. Being that his day job is to write people expensive tickets for not wearing their seatbelts, it warranted a little chuckle from all in the room.

Sort of shows why they tell people to do it though.
#87
I literally saw a video of a guy going up to a cop on the street and flipping him off directly to his face. Needless to say, he automatically pulled his billy and smacked the guy right across the face. The best part is the guy's bud taking the vid from his car immediatly freaked and drove off with an "oh shit!".
#90
Quote by MadClownDisease
Yeah see that's exactly the type of reaction a policeman should be arrested for.

The person that flipped the cop off was being a tad aggressive, but the cop beat him repeatedly even after the guy was running away.
#91
Quote by MadClownDisease
Yeah see that's exactly the type of reaction a policeman should be arrested for.


What reaction would you expect from someone who has a man walk up to him from in a car, which had been waiting, and was aggressive right in his face?
...Stapling helium to penguins since 1949.
#92
Quote by Todd Hart
What reaction would you expect from someone who has a man walk up to him from in a car, which had been waiting, and was aggressive right in his face?

I think "what the ****?" would be the appropriate reaction.

He didn't hit him as a knee-jerk reaction, he waited a couple of moments shocked, and then started needlessly beating him, even pursuing him to beat him more.

I'd expect from a policeman who has to deal with this kind of behaviour a lot a calmer reaction that from a member of the public, and I think this would clearly be very aggressive assault from any other person.

EDIT: Watch again, it wasn't a defensive reaction to aggression (though it was pretty aggressive when lunged out with the fingers), it was a "I'm not ****ing taking this, have a baton to the head you twat" reaction.
Last edited by MadClownDisease at Jan 3, 2013,
#93
Quote by MadClownDisease

EDIT: Watch again, it wasn't a defensive reaction to aggression (though it was pretty aggressive when lunged out with the fingers), it was a "I'm not ****ing taking this, have a baton to the head you twat" reaction.



That was my point earlier. You may take this to court and win, but it not going to save you the beating, the jail time (A lot of people here seem to forget that arrested =/= guilty.)


So as stated before, it's legal but not advisable. (As always, In the U.S. the law varies from state to state)


And if that guy was in Georgia, he could be found guilty of the following:

2010 Georgia Code
TITLE 16 - CRIMES AND OFFENSES
CHAPTER 11 - OFFENSES AGAINST PUBLIC ORDER AND SAFETY
ARTICLE 2 - OFFENSES AGAINST PUBLIC ORDER
§ 16-11-39 - Disorderly conduct


(a) A person commits the offense of disorderly conduct when such person commits any of the following:

(1) Acts in a violent or tumultuous manner toward another person whereby such person is placed in reasonable fear of the safety of such person's life, limb, or health;

(2) Acts in a violent or tumultuous manner toward another person whereby the property of such person is placed in danger of being damaged or destroyed;

(3) Without provocation, uses to or of another person in such other person's presence, opprobrious or abusive words which by their very utterance tend to incite to an immediate breach of the peace, that is to say, words which as a matter of common knowledge and under ordinary circumstances will, when used to or of another person in such other person's presence, naturally tend to provoke violent resentment, that is, words commonly called "fighting words"; or

(4) Without provocation, uses obscene and vulgar or profane language in the presence of or by telephone to a person under the age of 14 years which threatens an immediate breach of the peace.

(b) Any person who commits the offense of disorderly conduct shall be guilty of a misdemeanor.

(c) This Code section shall not be deemed or construed to affect or limit the powers of counties or municipal corporations to adopt ordinances or resolutions prohibiting disorderly conduct within their respective limits.
Last edited by jugglingfreak at Jan 3, 2013,
#94
I don't know what the law says about it, in either the UK or USA, but here is what I think.

You should be "allowed" to flip off a police officer just as much as you should be "allowed" to flip off someone who isn't a police officer. However, just because you are "allowed" to do it doesn't mean you aren't a dick for doing it.
#95
I'm of the belief that anywhere from 50-75% of U.S. Police Officers are deserving of the middle finger.
This is why I don't like arguing on the internet.
Quote by damian_91
If only you could back that statement up.
Quote by Zombee
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Quote by damian_91
No need to, absurd generalizations aren't my thing.
#96
Quote by jugglingfreak
That was my point earlier. You may take this to court and win, but it not going to save you the beating, the jail time (A lot of people here seem to forget that arrested =/= guilty.)


So as stated before, it's legal but not advisable. (As always, In the U.S. the law varies from state to state)


And if that guy was in Georgia, he could be found guilty of the following:

Oh aye, it's by no means a constructive thing to do, and I think that guy was a dick for just running up to someone and shouting and swearing at them, but I still think that policeman used excessive and unnecessary force even were it illegal.

(I know you're not agreeing with the guy in that video btw, just saying people who think that is the correct response to someone being needlessly rude should NOT be a police officer)
#97
Quote by MadClownDisease
I think "what the ****?" would be the appropriate reaction.

He didn't hit him as a knee-jerk reaction, he waited a couple of moments shocked, and then started needlessly beating him, even pursuing him to beat him more.

I'd expect from a policeman who has to deal with this kind of behaviour a lot a calmer reaction that from a member of the public, and I think this would clearly be very aggressive assault from any other person.

EDIT: Watch again, it wasn't a defensive reaction to aggression (though it was pretty aggressive when lunged out with the fingers), it was a "I'm not ****ing taking this, have a baton to the head you twat" reaction.


He's a police officer, so he knows he's a target anyway, and a guy just got out of a parked car, beelined for him and started jumping in his face and being aggressive. I don't think the policeman's reaction was perfect, but it's clearly understandable: he panicked, being only human, and given that he's armed with a nightstick he used that to defend himself.

If a policeman, or even another civilian, walked up to someone and started being as aggressive as the man in the video was what would you expect as a reaction? Policeman are no more and no less than civilians, and they will panic in the same way. However, police know that they are a target of violence, and this officer had no idea that all that was going to happen was pathetic juvenile swearing, and so he reacted in a way to ensure his safety.

And, frankly, I see no problem with twatting some pathetic asshole over the head for being aggressive and intimidating.
...Stapling helium to penguins since 1949.
#98
Quote by Todd Hart
He's a police officer, so he knows he's a target anyway, and a guy just got out of a parked car, beelined for him and started jumping in his face and being aggressive. I don't think the policeman's reaction was perfect, but it's clearly understandable: he panicked, being only human, and given that he's armed with a nightstick he used that to defend himself.

If a policeman, or even another civilian, walked up to someone and started being as aggressive as the man in the video was what would you expect as a reaction? Policeman are no more and no less than civilians, and they will panic in the same way. However, police know that they are a target of violence, and this officer had no idea that all that was going to happen was pathetic juvenile swearing, and so he reacted in a way to ensure his safety.

And, frankly, I see no problem with twatting some pathetic asshole over the head for being aggressive and intimidating.

That's the thing though, it doesn't look like he panicked, he just got annoyed. He stops and steps back pretty calmly before he decides to start twatting the guy.
It looks like he realised there was no immediate danger, realised it was just someone being a dickhead and went for him.

I'd expect normal people to react too, but even for normal people who aren't meant to uphold the law and deal with this a lot (ie who aren't expected to keep their cool and would be excuseable for assaulting someone), this is still quite a reaction. He was provoked, but certainly not to that reaction. If I was him... well if I was him I'd probably just have been a bit shocked and taken aback and then tried to walk around, but I'm pretty passive... but I'd expect normal people to shout or swear back "what the ****" etc etc but to start beating someone with a weapon is a pretty extreme reaction.

Regardless of how much of a twat this guy was being, this is a man who should be trained to keep calm and uphold the law, not get aggressive when insulted and attack someone with an item meant for use when people are being violent. He could see this guy wasn't a threat and rather than stay calm or shout or even attempt to arrest him, he starts attacking him. It's not on.
#99
Quote by Butt Rayge
I don't give a cuntsuck how many swear words you use.



Yeah, you should have that right. If he flips you right back, then don't bitch, because he has that same right. If a cop is harassing you for "looking at them wrong", then you have a right to complain.
#100
Quote by Todd Hart
He's a police officer, so he knows he's a target anyway, and a guy just got out of a parked car, beelined for him and started jumping in his face and being aggressive. I don't think the policeman's reaction was perfect, but it's clearly understandable: he panicked, being only human, and given that he's armed with a nightstick he used that to defend himself.

If a policeman, or even another civilian, walked up to someone and started being as aggressive as the man in the video was what would you expect as a reaction? Policeman are no more and no less than civilians, and they will panic in the same way. However, police know that they are a target of violence, and this officer had no idea that all that was going to happen was pathetic juvenile swearing, and so he reacted in a way to ensure his safety.

And, frankly, I see no problem with twatting some pathetic asshole over the head for being aggressive and intimidating.


Then their training sucks. With authority comes responsibility (Or at least that's how it should work...).
“Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge.”
Charles Darwin
#102
Quote by crazysam23_Atax
Why is this terrible thread still going? You all should be ashamed!

#103
It should be legal to do so, but nobody really should be stupid enough to do it. I really don't get how this is such of a big issue though.
#104
Quote by magnus_maximus
It's funny that in America, a nation where people hate welfare recipients and such because they despise the "entitlement" culture, they feel their rights "entitle" them to firearms and being a dick.


This is pretty much what I came in here to say even though i'm an American.

#105
This little kid flipped me off today while I was on the job. I only wanted to know why he was smoking on private property... he told me that his actions were protected under the first amendment or something.

kids these days
#106
Quote by Wolfinator-x
Am I really the only person in the world who has followed the law and still live perfectly happily?

Def not. A cop once told me to put a shirt on in case some drunk people see me shirtless and think about fighting me. And another cop denied me a hug the New Years before last. That's the worst experience I've ever had with a cop.
Quote by noisewall11
OK, so my memory was a bit inaccurate, but .....


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yioHCL7uKYs

That's pretty hilarious tbh.

"Do it bro, he can't do shit to you"
#107
Quote by crazysam23_Atax
As an American, I agree with you. Here's the reality, TS...

Cops generally work their asses off dealing with scumbags. Why exactly would you A) NOT show them basic respect ("Yes, sir", "No, sir", don't flip him off, etc.) and B) want to provoke them? How would you feel if you just spent the day booking some petty thief and then some smartass kid flips you off because 1) he says it's protected by the 1st Amendment AND 2) because he thinks it's funny. I'd be pissed.

Edit:
And, for the record, obscenities are NOT protected under the 1st Amendment. The Amendment states:


Obscenity (which is what flipping off a cop is; it's a "Fuck you") are not protected speech. Read this for various laws in obscenity in the US.

I'm neutral toward cops when I meet them since they could be good or bad, I refuse to call them "sir" though, even if it would get me out of a ticket. I don't respect them any more than a random person in the street.
sunbather is shit
#108
When someone tries to argue that an abusive act towards a police officer (or anyone else for that matter) should be perfectly legal and socially acceptable, then that person is quite obviously socially retarded.
Last edited by SlackerBabbath at Jan 4, 2013,
#109
It's (sometimes) legal to say 'get fucked you cunt' to a cop, so flipping them off is just fine (*in Australia).
Quote by Dirtydeeds468
Holy Crap.

I love you more than life itself.
Last edited by catempire at Jan 4, 2013,
#110
Quote by beefcake122
I'm neutral toward cops when I meet them since they could be good or bad, I refuse to call them "sir" though, even if it would get me out of a ticket. I don't respect them any more than a random person in the street.



I think this is the entire problem here(not to single you out, just the statement seems to fit the opinions of a few). You should be respectful of anyone you meet, whether it be a cop or a random person. Why the hell does anyone feel the need to flip off any other person. Back in the day you called everybody sir or ma'am because thats just the way it is, give out the same respect that you want to receive.
#111
Quote by pullingthrough
I think this is the entire problem here(not to single you out, just the statement seems to fit the opinions of a few). You should be respectful of anyone you meet, whether it be a cop or a random person. Why the hell does anyone feel the need to flip off any other person. Back in the day you called everybody sir or ma'am because thats just the way it is, give out the same respect that you want to receive.


That's what he (and I) said. It's just that cops don't deserve special treatment when it comes to displays of respect.
#112
Quote by TooktheAtrain
That's what he (and I) said. It's just that cops don't deserve special treatment when it comes to displays of respect.



Exactly the point. Why would you run up to some random person yell "f*** you" and flip them off?

If you did, some of them just might give you a beat down.

What you have is a bunch of cowardly douche bags who want to flip off a cop with out consequences in order to make themselves feel better about their small penises.


What is also misunderstood by those people is the process. Here is what would probably happen:

You flip off a cop and say "f*** you".
Cop arrests you for "disorderly conduct"
You are cuffed and taken to the police station/jail
You get bailed out/released until hearing
At the hearing, you plead "not guilty"
Case goes to court, you successfully argue you were exercising your rights.
Your found "not guilty" and move on.

That process takes several months and will cost you a lot of money.

Oh, but you say I'd sue the cop/police force. You can, you have to file a separate Civil suit. Civil lawsuits take even longer. While your waiting for that suit, you still have to pay the previous money. They don't care that a law suit is pending.

For the civil suit you still have to hire and pay an attorney (usually quite a bit up front just as a retaining fee) and you can include the attorney's fees in your case, if you win, but the retainer fee is still up front.

Say you win the lawsuit, the police can appeal and that will add another year or two on to the case before you get any money. And after it's over the attorney will take about 30%.

Provided you win your civil case. A judge can still say that while you were not guilty, they still had grounds to take you in. It that case you are on the hook for all the money.

So if anyone thinks all that is worth the 2 sec. thrill of flipping a cop off, have fun.
Last edited by jugglingfreak at Jan 4, 2013,
#113
Quote by SlackerBabbath
When someone tries to argue that an abusive act towards a police officer (or anyone else for that matter) should be perfectly legal and socially acceptable, then that person is quite obviously socially retarded.


It should certainly not be socially acceptable.

It should however be legal.
“Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge.”
Charles Darwin
#114
Quote by Arby911
It should certainly not be socially acceptable.

It should however be legal.

I agree, I don't think being rude or being a twat should be illegal.

If someone is repeatedly harassing someone, or having long term effects, or threatening... maybe. But swearing at someone being illegal? Not a matter for law if you ask me.
#115
Quote by Arby911
It should certainly not be socially acceptable.

It should however be legal.


It's not illegal, but that doesn't mean you aren't going to get your ass kicked for it.
...Stapling helium to penguins since 1949.
#117
Quote by Arby911
Quote by SlackerBabbath
When someone tries to argue that an abusive act towards a police officer (or anyone else for that matter) should be perfectly legal and socially acceptable, then that person is quite obviously socially retarded.
It should certainly not be socially acceptable.

It should however be legal.

Why should society legaly 'accept' something that it considers as 'unacceptable'? That's completely counter-intuative.
Something is made 'illegal' because it is considered as 'unacceptable' by general society. A type of behaviour is made illegal because general society says "We will not accept this behaviour". If a type of behaviour isn't made illegal, then that's essentially society expessing that it consideres it as 'acceptable'.

A police officer represents the law in public, in exactly the same way that a judge represents the law in court. You wouldn't expect to get away with showing contempt to the law by flipping off a judge in a courtroom so why should you expect to get away with showing contempt to the law by flipping off a police officer in public?
Last edited by SlackerBabbath at Jan 6, 2013,
#118
Quote by SlackerBabbath
Why should society legaly 'accept' something that it considers as 'unacceptable'? That's completely counter-intuative.
Something is made 'illegal' because it is considered as 'unacceptable' by general society. A type of behaviour is made illegal because general society says "We will not accept this behaviour". If a type of behaviour isn't made illegal, then that's essentially society expessing that it consideres it as 'acceptable'.

A police officer represents the law in public, in exactly the same way that a judge represents the law in court. You wouldn't expect to get away with showing contempt to the law by flipping off a judge in a courtroom so why should you expect to get away with showing contempt to the law by flipping off a police officer in public?

Nah, legally prohibiting is different to condoning. There is a difference between wanting people to not do something or not approving and actively preventing it via a legal system. Legal prohibition can have many other effects than simply stopping that activity taking place.

The obvious example would be drugs and prostitution. You can both accept you don't want people to do that and that you don't think it's acceptable, whilst also accepting that legal action would be more negative or that it's not the place of the legal system to prevent such things happening. Whether swearing at people is within the same class of things is another argument, but there are certainly things you don't want people to do that you shouldn't make illegal.

Similarly there are things that you might think are acceptable but should still be illegal. Perhaps stealing bread for your poor family or somesuch. You might think it's acceptable in such situations, but for anti-theft laws to work you have to include them within that law.
This is probably the type of law I'd put anti-offensive law in. You might not want people to be able to abuse others, but for a law against that to be clear cut enough to actually be able to function you might have to include a lot of behaviour in it that you would think should be allowed (for example, criticising public figures, expressing your opinion, not being legally subject to what other people feel about what you said etc).

I'm not saying it's a simple "oh slippery slope! Outlaw that you have to outlaw the rest!", I'm saying the legal system is so widespread and regularly used that laws can't be too nuanced or flexible or else nothing gets done. There's no logical inconsistency saying abusing people should be illegal whilst joking should not, but the law is a practical entity and in practice there are plenty of things that can't be made illegal without infringing on the freedom to do certain other things.


(Quite apart from all of which, I think anyone who thinks the law needs to intervene every time they feel insulted just needs to stop being such a big baby.)
Last edited by MadClownDisease at Jan 6, 2013,
#119
Quote by MadClownDisease
I think anyone who thinks the law needs to intervene every time they feel insulted just needs to stop being such a big baby.

This isn't a case of just anyone feeling insulted, it's a case of showing contempt to the law. For the law to operate correctly, it, and the people who represent it, requires a certain amount of respect from the public, if it was considered as perfectly OK to be abusive towards police officers without fear of prosecution they would no longer be as effective at their job of enforcing the law.
Last edited by SlackerBabbath at Jan 7, 2013,
#120
Not being particularly well versed in law, I'd say wouldn't this come under verbal assault?
In which case, words by themselves are not sufficient, but teamed with a threatening manner can definitely be illegal. At least that's my understanding.

Insulting a police officer is pants down retarded. The only time I can see anyone doing it is with a threatening, and non complying manner towards the officer, so I struggle to see when anyone can do this legally to the police officer. The most I can understand is accidentally letting slip a swear word or something.

And lastly, if it's in public it can probably come under disturbing the peace.

Quote by SlackerBabbath
When someone tries to argue that an abusive act towards a police officer (or anyone else for that matter) should be perfectly legal and socially acceptable, then that person is quite obviously socially retarded.

Quote by SlackerBabbath
A police officer represents the law in public, in exactly the same way that a judge represents the law in court. You wouldn't expect to get away with showing contempt to the law by flipping off a judge in a courtroom so why should you expect to get away with showing contempt to the law by flipping off a police officer in public?

Both of these.
RIP Gooze

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