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#1
On appearance, it doesn't seem that hard but, admittedly, I'm not even sure what's involved. I dunno, you tell me.
#2
Well I guess it depends...


no
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#3
Depends what they do.
But boys will be boys and girls have those eyes
that'll cut you to ribbons, sometimes
and all you can do is just wait by the moon
and bleed if it's what she says you ought to do
#4
Some just play other's music and build good setlists to get a night going well. I'd probably call them a sound engineer more than anything.

Others actually make music. So yes.
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#6
if they just build playlists and carry around a sound system to parties, then no. neither if they just hang around turning knobs on a turn table, thats just being poser.

If they spend time actually making music(beats, rythms, whatever youd call them) for their own music or for other singers, instrumentalists, or studios to use, then Id say yes.
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#7
Chris Moyles isn't.
But boys will be boys and girls have those eyes
that'll cut you to ribbons, sometimes
and all you can do is just wait by the moon
and bleed if it's what she says you ought to do
#8
Is someone who drives 5-miles to work every day a race car driver? Is the kid who sits in front of a computer monitor playing a $50 flight simulator program a pilot?

No.

Is a person who spins vinyl or CDs a musician? No. It makes them a DJ. By definition, a musician is one who plays a musical instrument. Playing a CD does not make one a composer, conductor or performer of music. If that's the case, then everyone who listens to music is a musician.

I eat bread. Does that make me a baker?
#9
Quote by KG6_Steven

Is a person who spins vinyl or CDs a musician? No. It makes them a DJ. By definition, a musician is one who plays a musical instrument. Playing a CD does not make one a composer, conductor or performer of music.

It becomes blurred when DJs are actively manipulating the sounds that an audience hears - they're making music with electronic devices and by manipulating recorded sounds/music to make something different.
But boys will be boys and girls have those eyes
that'll cut you to ribbons, sometimes
and all you can do is just wait by the moon
and bleed if it's what she says you ought to do
#10
All DJs who are worth their shit know their way around a keyboard imo. this day and age you have to consider DAWs and some VSTs as musical instruments.

a baker makes bread using cooking tools, and people later enjoy that bread. A musician makes music using musical instruments, and people later enjoy that music.
Marty Friedman is GOD!

curently in a SEX MACHINEGUNS and X JAPAN phase AND Galneryus AND Anthem phase

damn J-Metal, why you so awesome

My Gear:

Schecter Hellraiser V-1 fr
Ibanez RG321mh
Fender GDC-200sce
Peavey Vypyr 30 w/ sanpera 1
#11
It depends on how much is automated- doing it with a controller into a computer running a program like Traktor you can use the automatic tempo match and just set up a playlist, or you can do it pretty much on-the-fly going by audience mood and use looping creatively, making drops and stuff, which is a lot of fun but very hard.
Even the most complex DJing isn't really performing musically since they prepare the songs before hand and just trigger them, there's not really any opportunities for adding musicality.
In summary; it's hard and fun, but it's something completely different to being a musician.
#12
Quote by Hydra150
It becomes blurred when DJs are actively manipulating the sounds that an audience hears - they're making music with electronic devices and by manipulating recorded sounds/music to make something different.



If the DJ is actively involved in making music , either with a keyboard, singing, or some other musical device, then he's a musician. I think I could even make a good argument against saying he's a musician if he sings. If he's simply manipulating something that someone else recorded, I have a hard time stretching that one to fit the definition of a musician.

FWIW, I used to DJ years ago. I did not use a keyboard, or sing, but I sure did a heck of a lot of mixing. Was I a musician? I don't think so.

Interesting topic.
#13
I reckon DJ's who put themselves under the category of 'live real-time production' are musicians.

For example the last show I directed and composed all music for, featured a piece in which I improvised on laptop, with two dancers. I had all my sounds and clips ready in Ableton which were then laid out across a couple of MPC controllers. I'd also mapped out a lot of effects including panning, pitch shifting, lengthening samples etc. I had to play while I improvised with these dancers, responding to how they moved and what they were doing while they responde to my sounds. I also had to spin the sound around the room, working with the delay and reverberance it created, and the fact I had 7.1 surround sound set up, with audience sitting in the middle.

I think it takes a musician to communicate musically, effectively.
#14
It definitely depends, as DJ is a pretty big area in itself. I would usually say no though.
It's not that I don't think it's very impressive what DJs who combine beats, samples, etc. together do, I find it very impressive and I think it takes as much skill as learning a musical instrument does. But in my mind a computer is not an instrument, and so I would class them differently. I also believe that a musician needs to know a certain amount of music theory, i.e. note names, some basic chords (Maj, min, power are enough IMO), and tempo/time sigs. Most of the DJs I know (who don't play musical instruments primarily) only know the last one, so I don't think they are musicians.

So overall no I don't think DJs are musicians, I think they're a separate thing that requires equal skill and happens to have some similarities to musicians.
#15
Quote by chatterbox272
It definitely depends, as DJ is a pretty big area in itself. I would usually say no though.
It's not that I don't think it's very impressive what DJs who combine beats, samples, etc. together do, I find it very impressive and I think it takes as much skill as learning a musical instrument does. But in my mind a computer is not an instrument, and so I would class them differently. I also believe that a musician needs to know a certain amount of music theory, i.e. note names, some basic chords (Maj, min, power are enough IMO), and tempo/time sigs. Most of the DJs I know (who don't play musical instruments primarily) only know the last one, so I don't think they are musicians.

So overall no I don't think DJs are musicians, I think they're a separate thing that requires equal skill and happens to have some similarities to musicians.

Why? A computer produces sounds. It can produce music. What makes it a non-instrument? Is a synthesizer not an instrument?
#16
Quote by TheHydra
Why? A computer produces sounds. It can produce music. What makes it a non-instrument? Is a synthesizer not an instrument?

because all the computer does is repeat a pattern. A DJ has to play a pattern once then the computer will take over and continue to play the pattern until it is told to stop. I would think of a DJ as more similar to a conductor in an orchestra, the DJ tells them what to play like a conductor gives sheet music to the orchestra members, then tells them when to stop like a conductor cutting off a section.
#17
but the DJ inputs a pattern to produce a melody(hopefully). I dont think it really matters if the computer repeats the pattern so long as the DJ is trying to make a melody with that pattern.
Marty Friedman is GOD!

curently in a SEX MACHINEGUNS and X JAPAN phase AND Galneryus AND Anthem phase

damn J-Metal, why you so awesome

My Gear:

Schecter Hellraiser V-1 fr
Ibanez RG321mh
Fender GDC-200sce
Peavey Vypyr 30 w/ sanpera 1
#18
Quote by chatterbox272
because all the computer does is repeat a pattern. A DJ has to play a pattern once then the computer will take over and continue to play the pattern until it is told to stop. I would think of a DJ as more similar to a conductor in an orchestra, the DJ tells them what to play like a conductor gives sheet music to the orchestra members, then tells them when to stop like a conductor cutting off a section.

That's only one usage of a computer. You can set up an electric guitar with a loop pedal and do the same thing; does that not make it an instrument? And surely you're not implying that conductors aren't musicians either? A conductor requires an outstanding ear, an unwavering sense of rhythm, and a thorough knowledge of the music being performed. He or she manipulates the orchestra just as the performers manipulate their instruments. That's musicianship as much as anything else is.
#19
Quote by chatterbox272
because all the computer does is repeat a pattern. A DJ has to play a pattern once then the computer will take over and continue to play the pattern until it is told to stop. I would think of a DJ as more similar to a conductor in an orchestra, the DJ tells them what to play like a conductor gives sheet music to the orchestra members, then tells them when to stop like a conductor cutting off a section.

Have you even tried conducting an Orchestra? Do you know how difficult it is to do so? To me, if a DJ uses Vinyl manipulation techniques, they are musicians. Or if they do real time performances with something like Abelton, that also counts.
#20
I could keep arguing this all day but I wont. IN MY OPINION DJs are not musicians, they are DJs. DJing requires a few similar skills to being a musician but a whole lot of different ones too and therefor I don't think they are the same thing. That is my opinion, and nothing anyone says will be changing that any time soon.
#22
Quote by francesco18
Musician is not a synonym for ''instrumentalist'', a musician is someone who creates music, who cares if he uses a guitar, a piano or a sampler/sequencer to do so ?


This. Whoever said "musician = instrumentalist" = retard.
#24
Webster defines musician as:

Definition of MUSICIAN
: a composer, conductor, or performer of music; especially : instrumentalist

I think this definition is critical. In order to be defined as a musician, one must either compose music, conduct music or perform music.

I don't think any of us would argue that a composer isn't a musician. Nor, would anyone argue that a conductor isn't a musician. But, what how do we define what a performer of music is? When I play piano or guitar, I'm performing music. I'm actively involved in the making of music. Does a DJ perform? If he's strictly playing someone else's recorded performance, I would say that he's not performing. Even if he's mixing the beats from one song to the next, he's not truly performing. He's using a recorded performance given by someone else. He may understand the concept of beats per minute and mixing songs with similar time signatures, but he's not really a musician. Now, throw in a drum machine or a midi keyboard and I think we begin to have the basis of what we need to define the DJ as a musician - he's now performing music.

One more thought... Is someone who plays the spoons or washboard in a zydeco band a musician? You might say no, but by definition they are considered a musician, since they are performing. They may not be at the same level of musicianship as Vai or Billy Gibbons, but they're still musicians.

So, perhaps we should be discussing musicianship, instead of trying to decide if a DJ is a musician or not.
#25
the term "music" is also very subjective
Marty Friedman is GOD!

curently in a SEX MACHINEGUNS and X JAPAN phase AND Galneryus AND Anthem phase

damn J-Metal, why you so awesome

My Gear:

Schecter Hellraiser V-1 fr
Ibanez RG321mh
Fender GDC-200sce
Peavey Vypyr 30 w/ sanpera 1
#26
dj
Noun;
A disc jockey.
Verb;
Perform as a disc jockey.

musician
Noun;
A person who is talented or skilled in music.
A person who plays a musical instrument, esp. professionally.


They do not have the same definition. Therefore, they are not the same.
"Because computers and science" - Rody Walker
#27
I think you guys are messing a few things up.

the way I see it is:
Musician: a person who plays a musical instrument, (including Virtual Instruments yes, IF he is playing them live for instance)

Composer: is a person who write music to be performed, (usually classical or complex style music)

Songwriter: is a person who write songs/music of a rather simple context

Producer: a person who writes/programs music but doesnt actually play each instrument live

DJ: a person who puts music on turntables and manipulates it in a way or another. Also the guys who do sampling and stuff live.

Conductor: a person who conducts the orchestra/ensemble.

Now mix and match any term, if you write and perform then you're a composer/musician, if you are a DJ who also plays a piano then you're a DJ and a pianist (musician), if you conduct but also play the flute then you're a conductor, flutist.


A few words to describe each quality
#28
V pretty much sums it up. The term musician is flexible and there are many different types of musician. Would you call a terrible guitarist a musician and a brilliant disc jockey not?

The lines between a producer/DJ are blurred these days, as djing seems one way for producers to get their work out there and there are some amazing "sample" djs that use samples and loops to create music, which to me sounds more musical to me then strumming on a few guitars! Some of them record their own loops look at erb n dubz he plays drums has a rock band, produces d n b and djs his d nb live. Very musical.
Last edited by archtek at Jan 12, 2013,
#31
Quote by LiquidSkies
Listening to Bonobo = good taste
(yeah yeah it's subjective, blah)


with bonobo there is no subjective

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I want to be Hail when I grow up.
#32
No. A musician uses an instrument to create music. If a musician sets his/her instrument down, the music stops. DJ's use computers and turntables, to alter or manipulate preexisting music. Calling a DJ an actual "musician," is like calling a book editor, an author.
#33
Quote by SP1N3SPL1TT3R
No. A musician uses an instrument to create music. If a musician sets his/her instrument down, the music stops. DJ's use computers and turntables, to alter or manipulate preexisting music. Calling a DJ an actual "musician," is like calling a book editor, an author.


is a DAW not an instrument?

in·stru·ment (nstr-mnt)
5. Music A device for playing or producing music:
Quote by theogonia777
Hail killed MT

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I want to be Hail when I grow up.
#34
Quote by SP1N3SPL1TT3R
No. A musician uses an instrument to create music. If a musician sets his/her instrument down, the music stops. DJ's use computers and turntables, to alter or manipulate preexisting music. Calling a DJ an actual "musician," is like calling a book editor, an author.


So Michael Angelo Batio is a musician but Aphex Twin is not a musician ? Cool story, bro.
#36
Quote by jazz_rock_feel
Both of those people sound made up.

Aphex Twin is very real. Look up 'windowlicker' on whatever music player you use. Never heard of the other guy though.
#37
Not necessarily, in the same way that a guitarist is not necessarily a musician.
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#38
not really

DJ's dont create music or play an instrument
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#40
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3uhTwxqE4Co


''The instrument used was a MIDI-controlled Yamaha Disklavier that James claims to have programmed to play by sequencers rather than from the piano's keyboard. The Disklavier is a modern descendant of the player pianos of the late 19th and early 20th century, which were controlled by rolls of punched paper tape. For some pieces, James placed microphones inside the piano body, so that the workings of the Disklavier's mechanisms are heard in conjunction with the sounding of the notes, as a rhythmic counterpoint.''

Oh look, a paradox !
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