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Blktiger0
The Name's Devon! ;)
Join date: Sep 2007
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#1
Yesterday, while playing my Moser V, the neck pickup stopped working entirely. I'm not sure if it's a bad pup, or maybe the pot or switch, but here are the symptoms:

There is absolutely no output unless I turn the volume all the way to zero and have it running through my distortion pedal (this is on my practice rig, not my amp)

Before now, I've thought that it seemed a little thin and possibly lacking in output. It just sounded kinda weak when run with overdrive, through my amp or through my practice rig. I thought it was just the pickup, though.

I checked the wiring and soldering, and nothing seems awry. I just changed the Bridge pickup after I got it, and looked over everything then, but everything looked fine.

Any ideas on what it is for sure?
R45VT
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#2
Quote by Blktiger0


Any ideas on what it is for sure?


Check your switch first. Do you see it physically making contact? You can turn it to the pick-up that is not working and touch the part that is supposed to make contact to see if it just lost its tension.

Do you have an ohm meter handy? You could take a measurement too see if the pick-up is shorted.
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R45VT
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#4
Quote by Blktiger0
When I checked the wiring, it all looked good.

I have a Multi-Meter, yeah. How would I go about that?


Check the resistance of the coil. It would be between the wire leading to the switch and ground. See what you come up with.
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See, it's important that people clarify when they say "metal", because I pretty much always assume they are a Cannibal Corpse fanboi.
Ibbod0
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#5
what's the control layout? If it's 2 volume, i'm going to guess that the neck volume pot died.
R45VT
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#6
Quote by Ibbod0
what's the control layout? If it's 2 volume, i'm going to guess that the neck volume pot died.


Very good point. I can't remember if they have a separate pot for each pick-up.
Quote by DeathByDestroyr
See, it's important that people clarify when they say "metal", because I pretty much always assume they are a Cannibal Corpse fanboi.
Blktiger0
The Name's Devon! ;)
Join date: Sep 2007
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#8
Sorry about the wait, btw. I haven't had the extra time at home to sit down and do this, and I finally did just now, and I come to find that the batteries in my Multi-Meter are dead and I haven't got one AAA battery in the house

Nedless to say, I'll be investing in a set of rechargable AAA batteries in the near future, just for this thing.
Blktiger0
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#9
Okay, so I finally got around to testing this, and I tested the JB in my bridge first, to make sure I was testing corectly and that my meter was reading corectly, and I got a resistance of 16k, and the reported reading on the SD website is 16.4k. So far so good.

Then, I test the neck pup, and I could only get a resistance of 0 every time.

In case I'm going about it wrong, I was just connecting the common lead (black) to the ground wire that's soldered onto the back of the pot, and I was connecting the hot lead (red) to the hot wire that's soldered onto the little prong coming off of the pot (I don't know the actual name of this). It worked fine for the bridge pickup, but I just wasn't sure if this would be measuring the pot as well.
mmolteratx
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#10
Desolder the pickup leads from the pot. As is, you're measuring the pickup resistance in parallel with the pot resistance, and if either is shorted, you'll read 0 ohms. Need to measure them individually to determine which is borked.
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Blktiger0
The Name's Devon! ;)
Join date: Sep 2007
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#11
Quote by mmolteratx
Desolder the pickup leads from the pot. As is, you're measuring the pickup resistance in parallel with the pot resistance, and if either is shorted, you'll read 0 ohms. Need to measure them individually to determine which is borked.


That's what I was worried about, which is why I said something. I'll bust out the iron, then and report back in a while
Blktiger0
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#12
Okay, so, Measuring the pickup, no matter what setting I use for resistance (20k, 200k, 2k, 2m, etc.) I can't get any reading other than 1

I tried using the brass base of the pup as a ground, and I tried using the actualy ground wire. Neither would give me any result. I even tried going base plate to ground, in case I had confused what I thought was the ground and hot. Nothing. Every reading gave me 1

Does that mean the pup is dead?

Also, if it makes a difference, there is no bare wire like on the JB I put in the bridge or the EMG HZ I took out of the bridge. Is that normal?


EDIT:

Disregard all of that. I finally got a reading, but it was only 8.32. Shouldn't it be much higher for a humbucker? I don't know the brand of this pickup, although the guy I bought the axe off of said it was a Dimarzio something. I don't place any stock in that claim at all. The only marking on the bottom was an "F". If I can get my strings loose enough to take the bridge off, I'll take the pup out entirely and take some pics in an attempt to identify it. If it helps, the ground is black and hot is green.
Last edited by Blktiger0 at Jan 30, 2013,
mmolteratx
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#14
8.32 Ohms or 8.32 kOhms? If Ohms, you're pickup is probably dead. If kOhms, then that's just fine. PAFs can go as low as ~6 kOhms, most average right around 8-9. Even higher output neck pickups tend to be 12-14 kOhms.
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Blktiger0
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#15
The meter was set to 20k for the reading, if that helps. I'm not very familiar with the units here, but I'll gladly learn, if you're willing to teach.

FWIW, my JB was 16.1 and the EMG H4 I have was something like 15.something IIRC
mmolteratx
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#16
Yea, then it's kOhms. Your JB is in the right range for sure, and your neck pickup probably is as well. Did you check the reading across your pot's outer lugs?
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#17
I checked it with the hot lead on the lug the hot wire of the pup used tobe wired to and with the common on the case of the pot as a ground.

If I do it across the lugs, does it matter which of the three I use?
Blktiger0
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#18
From the middle (the one the Hot from the pickup was wired to) to the outside toward the top (which has the switch wiring to it) is .002 (set to 2k), from the middle to the bottom one (which has a jumper from the lead to the ground solder on the back of the pot) is .027 and from the outside to outside is .029
Last edited by Blktiger0 at Jan 31, 2013,
mmolteratx
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#19
Yes, must be the outer 2.
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Flux'D
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#21
Can you post pictures of the wiring? I think the problem is a grounding loop somewhere, or the switch is wired incorrectly (or the tabs are bent).


I chased a hum in my Flying V for weeks, scratching my head on it. I let my EE friend check it out and he couldn't find it either. The problem ended up being the cap was touching where it shouldn't, causing a ridiculous hum that was as loud as the output of the guitar.
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Last edited by Flux'D at Jan 31, 2013,
Offworld92
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#22
I'd try replacing the switch. They're always the first to go and they're almost always the culprit if you're not getting signal or you're getting "scratchy" signal from one of your pups.
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Blktiger0
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#23
I'll post pics of the wiring in just a second. The neck pup still isn't wired up, so keep that in mind. I de-soldered it earlier and haven't re-soldered it since. There was a lack of any output before I took it off, and it was soldered on well, so I'm pretty sure that wasn't the issue.
mmolteratx
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#24
Quote by Blktiger0
Well, in that case, the reading was .029k


Yea, that's way low. Should be 500k, +/- 20%. Though to be safe, also use the continuity function to check the switch.
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Blktiger0
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#25
Well, here are the pics (be prepared for giantness:











To test for continuity, where should my test points be? Going by the orientation in that picture, it didn't beep going from the top point to any of the other three, although the bottom left one didn't give a reading onscreen other than 1

Now, from the bottom middle to bottom left, it beeped, although there was no other comination that produced a beep.
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#26
The bottom three lugs are the ones you're interested in. Measure from the center to each outer lug for continuity with the switch in each position.
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Blktiger0
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#27
Well, when it was in the bridge position, it only beeped when the center and right lugs were connected

In the center position, it beeped when the center and each side were connected

In the neck position, it only beeped when the center and left lugs were connected.

Also, in case this makes a difference, it only beeps if the resistance is approximately 30ohms
mmolteratx
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#28
Switch is good then. Try swapping the pot. Or you could even just solder the pickup directly to the switch or in place of the bridge pickup real quick to verify that it works.
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Blktiger0
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#30
I wired the pup up, and it's fine. I can't say the same for two of my fingers, though. My iron fell off of the table onto the power cable to a nearby heater, and in a flash of panic-induced brilliance, i tried to grab it to make sure nothing caught on fire, and burned the absolute f*** out of my index and middle fingers on my left hand

I went ahead and took the pot out while I was in there resoldering the bridge pup in. I don't use the neck pup much on this guitar, so for now, I'll just leave it until I can grab a new pot.
R45VT
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#31
I burned a hole in my brand new slacks one day at work. First time I had worn them. It melted the fabric but saved my leg.aside from that I haven't had any mishaps in a very long time. (Knock on wood)
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trashedlostfdup
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#32
either way it goes, i would resolder the grounding to the pot (b500kohm). that is a nasty looking solder joint.
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mmolteratx
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#33
Quote by Blktiger0
I wired the pup up, and it's fine. I can't say the same for two of my fingers, though. My iron fell off of the table onto the power cable to a nearby heater, and in a flash of panic-induced brilliance, i tried to grab it to make sure nothing caught on fire, and burned the absolute f*** out of my index and middle fingers on my left hand

I went ahead and took the pot out while I was in there resoldering the bridge pup in. I don't use the neck pup much on this guitar, so for now, I'll just leave it until I can grab a new pot.


Been there, done that. It happens to pretty much everyone. Gotta train yourself to ignore your reflexes and let it drop, then pick it up. And make sure to set something on the floor in case it happens, so you don't burn the shit out of the carpet. Not that I've ever done that.
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Blktiger0
The Name's Devon! ;)
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#34
Trashed, that's the bridge pot, and I just cleaned it up. However, now I'm getting nothing from the bridge pup -_-

This is aggravating. I know the pickup is fine, I just tested it, so I'm assuming that that pot died too, unless completely removing the other pot would somehow do this.
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#36
sorry to hear you still haven't gotten it figured out yet. pardon me for not being which pot, as i am unfamiliar with that guitar.

the more i look at the picture the more questionable things.

it wouldn't necessarily be cheap, but i would either:

a. desolder ever wire in and rewire as stock (take lots of pics, sometimes they can come in handy)

or (better yet) get new pots, switch and cap hell even jack (under $2) and see what that does for you. even if it isn't it isn't the solution, those parts are always useful to have around.

if what above is not working after everything i said. i would bring it in to a tech. it may be just voodoo, who knows.
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mmolteratx
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#37
Probably a short that developed when you rewired everything, though it is possible to kill a pot with heat. Just very difficult to do so. Grab your multimeter and check for continuity between ground and the hot lead of the pickup. If it beeps, try and find the short.
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Blktiger0
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#38
Okay, thanks guys.

I just wondered if having the bridge pot completely removed might have been the issue. I still have the wires hooked up to the jack so that when I get the new pot I can just wire it right in without much trouble, and I wasn't sure if having those wires loose in the cavity would matter. I think I might put all of the original stuff back in and see if that solves it. Worst case scenario, I've spent about 30 minutes tops doing something I enjoy

Also, in case this matters, the way it's wired, it's not like my Les Paul where if you have the volume of the neck pup on zero and switch to the middle position on the switch, there is silence. Instead, on the V, if the neck pup is on zero, the middle position will just be 100% bridge pup.
Blktiger0
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#39
I fixed it. There was apparently just a weak spot in the hot wire. I opened up the cavity and was poking around, and I thought that I might take the bridge pot out to clean up the solder on it some more when I noticed that the hot wire was still soldered to the lug, but no longer attached to the rest of the pickup's wiring

Go figure, it something extremely simple. Needless to say, it was an easy fix, and it's working fine now, even with the other pot missing. I'm thinking I'm probably still going to replace all of the pots when I do the bridge one, and probably the treble cap, too.

What parts would you guys recommend as a replacements? I plan on sticking with 500K pots, and these ones are B500K Alpha pots. Would that make them Linear or Log pots? They're through the back, so I'll need long shaft, but I don't know what brand to go with. Also, I have no idea what to get for a treble cap.
mmolteratx
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#40
Those are linear pots. Buy some CTS long shaft audio tapers. Dunno if Alpha makes long shafts, but if they do, that's fine as well. For your treble bleed, parallel a 680p cap with a 150k resistor across the volume pots.
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