Dem0n0us
Registered User
Join date: Mar 2011
133 IQ
#1
I have seen multiple people play guitar through bass amps such as Josh Homme from the Queens of the Stone Age. I don't have enough cash and room for 2 amps so I want to combine it into one. I do not really have a set price range for the amp. Maybe 300 to 400 USD? Could be slightly more. I have played metalcore and hardcore in the past, but currently im into Biffy Clyro, Foo Fighters, Skillet, Modest Mouse, Shinedown, and Gaslight Anthem. I would like something versatile for bass and guitar. I am planning to get a multi-effects pedal board for guitar so guitar tone won't be really an issue. Is there anything I should watch out for? What are suggested brands? Any good models? Open to every opinion, but I probably wont change my mind abt the combining. Also, I am in New York City.
Thnks
Last edited by Dem0n0us at Jan 14, 2013,
moody git
i probably won't commit
Join date: May 2008
360 IQ
#2
don't yamaha do an amp designed specifically for both? not sure about any of the specs, but it might be worth a look. edit: THR10
in all my experience, bass amps make guitars sound that bit better. make sure you don't get a guitar amp straight out and end up ruining it when you plug your bass in.
DONT RISK IT, BUY A BASS AMP
Last edited by moody git at Jan 14, 2013,
anarkee
oh the horror!
Join date: Aug 2006
3,136 IQ
#3
When you are looking at an amp for both guitar and bass, the Fender Bassman always comes to mind--it is the go to amp for quite a few blues guitarists. However, its a bit above your cash allocation.

In your budget, there are alot of options. I would avoid GK and Ampeg in that price range--but you can pick up some decent amps from Ashdown, Acoustic, Kustom and Hartke. Also if you are willing to go used, your options in those manufacturers get even a bit better. If you are going to gig with the bass, make sure you give yourself enough headroom in wattage. My general advise is not to look at less than 200W.
chatterbox272
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Join date: May 2011
1,237 IQ
#4
Just make sure you know that bass amps, especially cheaper ones, often lack a drive mode. and even if they do, it's usually not the kind of drive you want on a guitar, so you'll need to factor in a distortion pedal unless you're happy with just cleans until you get your multiFX.

EDIT: actually, for your purposes I will recommend you look at the Digitech BP355 when you look at your multiFX. They claim it's designed for bass, but it's really just a slightly modified RP355 with a few bass models thrown in as well as the guitar models. That'd make it great for you because it could do FX for both guitar and bass.
Last edited by chatterbox272 at Jan 14, 2013,
MaggaraMarine
Slapping the bass.
Join date: Oct 2009
3,411 IQ
#5
^^ The BP355 doesn't have all the same models as RP355 but yeah, seems like it has all those Mesa Rectos, Marshalls and Fenders. And the FX are almost completely the same. All of them are really guitar FX models.
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FatalGear41
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#6
I'm afraid that there aren't many bass amps that work well for guitars. The original Fender Bassman was one such amp, but it was really a guitar amplifier the whole time. It just did not know it then. Back in the late 60's - early 70's, a few guitarists liked to play through an Ampeg SVT. Unfortunately, you aren't going to find an SVT rig in your budget.

Since it is critical that you play bass through bass speakers, perhaps a guitar amplifier with a good low end and a bass cabinet is what you need?
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Last edited by FatalGear41 at Jan 14, 2013,
Alucard817
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Join date: May 2010
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#7
I used to use a bass amp for my guitars back in the day. They work pretty well, but you lose a little off the high end when a guitar is plugged in.

Check out some Hartkes might be the sound you're going for.
Quote by FatalGear41
In the end, the only question is: what bass would Jesus play?

I think he's a Fender Jazz guy.
Sudaka
Novice Bass Player
Join date: Sep 2008
1,096 IQ
#8
Quote by FatalGear41
I'm afraid that there aren't many bass amps that work well for guitars. The original Fender Bassman was one such amp, but it was really a guitar amplifier the whole time. It just did not know it then. Back in the late 60's - early 70's, a few guitarists liked to play through an Ampeg SVT. Unfortunately, you aren't going to find an SVT rig in your budget.

Since it is critical that you play bass through bass speakers, perhaps a guitar amplifier with a good low end and a bass cabinet is what you need?

Of course, remember that if you only use one cab or one combo, it should be made for bass, since guitar speakers won't last if you plug a bass to them...
Quote by FatalGear41
When you break a bass string, that snapping sound is the sound of six dollars going down the crapper.



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Sliide90027
Registered User
Join date: Oct 2012
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#9
Tough order to fill.

Sounds like he is headed down the Road with a Floor MultiFX, a Power Amp and a 3 way Monitor Wedge.

He can let the PA do all of the heavy lifting on Volume and take advantage of the Amp Modeling until he is ready to commit to a Guitar Amp.
Ibanez BTB 1006 Fretless and 405 (no Barts)
456 & 455(w/Barts)
Genz Benz NeoX400 112T & NeoX 112T cab.
Digitech BP-8 (x2)
Yamaha PB-1
Boss: SYB-5, PS-2, OD-20, EQ-20, PH-3,BF-3, CE-20, DD-20
Morely A/B
Dem0n0us
Registered User
Join date: Mar 2011
133 IQ
#10
Hey, Thanks for the quick responses. I am not planning on any major gigs- only a small bar here and there. I am not planning on getting a stack anytime soon. I find them to be a pain in transportation and storage. These are a few of the combo amps that I am considering:
Opinions? Tips? Disclaimers?

http://www.guitarcenter.com/Hartke-A-Series-A100-100-Watt-1x15--Bass-Combo-Amp-107934523-i2536906.gc?esid=107934523

-and-

http://www.guitarcenter.com/Fender-Rumble-150-150W-1x15-Bass-Combo-Amp-105767834-i1500544.gc?esid=105767834
anarkee
oh the horror!
Join date: Aug 2006
3,136 IQ
#11
I'd pick the Hartke over the Fender, because I have been always underwhelmed by the Rumble series amps. They're kind of meh sounding to my ears.

I love the Hartke though and we have one at the studio where I help out at on occasion. We've used it for bass, guitar and an amp for electric drums and it sounds great and is built like a tank. (It takes frequent abuse from 10 - 12 year old students).

Ultimately, I would head down to your local GC and try them both out along with an Acoustic amp, which tends to give you alot of bang for your buck.
chatterbox272
Registered User
Join date: May 2011
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#12
I think I have to agree with Sliide on this, a PA and MultiFX is probably the way to go.
Maybe the aforementioned DigiTech BP355 and an active PA speaker like this Gemini RS-410. Then you can use the bass amp models for bass, and the guitar amp models for guitar. That should cover just about any sound you need from either bass or guitar quite adequately.
Dem0n0us
Registered User
Join date: Mar 2011
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#13
chatterbox272,

I do not quite understand. Do you mean I can just have a speaker along with a pedal board. Wouldn't this setup require a head?

----------------------------------------
Also anarkee,
You mentioned acoustic amps. How do they compare to bass and guitar amps. What should I expect from them? Any suggested models?
chatterbox272
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Join date: May 2011
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#14
Quote by Dem0n0us
chatterbox272,

I do not quite understand. Do you mean I can just have a speaker along with a pedal board. Wouldn't this setup require a head?

----------------------------------------
Also anarkee,
You mentioned acoustic amps. How do they compare to bass and guitar amps. What should I expect from them? Any suggested models?


Quick breakdown of parts in an amp for this explanation: The 'head' contains a preamp, tonestack (Equaliser), and power amp. The speaker I suggested there is a powered speaker, which means it has a built in power amp. The pedal board does a fine job of being a preamp and tonestack.

Also, the 'Acoustic' amps anarkee mentioned aren't acoustic guitar amps. She's talking about the brand Acoustic, they make some good value bass amps.
MaggaraMarine
Slapping the bass.
Join date: Oct 2009
3,411 IQ
#15
Quote by chatterbox272
I think I have to agree with Sliide on this, a PA and MultiFX is probably the way to go.
Maybe the aforementioned DigiTech BP355 and an active PA speaker like this Gemini RS-410. Then you can use the bass amp models for bass, and the guitar amp models for guitar. That should cover just about any sound you need from either bass or guitar quite adequately.

Do this.
Quote by AlanHB
Just remember that there are no boring scales, just boring players.

Gear

Charvel So Cal
Ibanez Blazer
Yamaha FG720S-12
Tokai TB48
Laney VC30
Hartke HyDrive 210c
Dem0n0us
Registered User
Join date: Mar 2011
133 IQ
#16
If I do get a PA... for MulitFX, am I limited to only bass pedalboards or can it work both ways? I am primarily a guitarist trying to expand my skills onto other instruments. So although I have decided to dedicate my future time to bass, I would not like to ignore guitar tone too much. Are there any recommended pedal boards out there? I will probably get the DigiTech BP355 for its looper, unless theres anything better with a comparable price.
chatterbox272
Registered User
Join date: May 2011
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#17
No, you can use any pedals, racks, or multiFX you like. I only recommended the BP355 because it has a lot of amp models for guitar and bass, so you can kill two birds with one stone and have great versatility for both instruments. And the guitar models aren't a half assed afterthought on it either, their pulled straight from DigiTech's RP series guitar multiFX.
Sliide90027
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Join date: Oct 2012
368 IQ
#18
Powered PA Cabinet or Monitor is Full Range and can handle anything you put into it as for frequency response.

Your expectations are sending you away from off the shelf individual Instrument products. Full Range is where you need to be looking. This will be like performing with hugh output studio monitors, or taking over a sidefill PA cab as your Audio Monitor.

When I did 5 Nights Opening for Petra, Clair Bros. was doing the sound and the Meyers Audio Back Side Fills (4 of them) were so perfect I shut my Micro Tech 1000 power amp off and told the stage hands to send my Cabinet (later sold to Adam Nitti and used by him until he signed with SWR) to the Trailer. I just did the Gigs with the Basses, the Yamaha PB-1 and my TFX4.

I cannot say what the Price is of a Powered Speaker or Monitor, so I cannot say the idea is within reach to you.

If you are doing light gigs, you can get away with 200 watts and let the PA carry the room.

Any Floor MFX Unit should have plenty of output to drive the Powered Monitor/Cabinet.

Otherwise you spend more money to get separate power amp and speakers.

Whether you choose a 2 Way Cabinet/Monitor or a 3 Way, it is Full Range, so it will do either instrument.

Just select the instrument and Pedal Board (as some pointed out the BP355 will do all the RP will do, some even use the venerable BP-8 [$100 avg. used] on Guitar because there is a 12ax7 tube in the preamp section) and run from that into the Powered Speaker.

If money and mass were no object to me, I would have:
my floor effects,
the two BP-8s, run stereo into -
2 PB-1 Preamps, then the Highs into-
2 Digitech 2120's, then into -
two Studio Quad 4's handling Stereo highs and Lows. and finally to
Powered Myers Cabinets of Choice, 2 Subs and 2 Fulls.

While my present Rig is 12's with little tweeters, I am not confident that the Bass Ported Cabinet is going to give you the versitility of tone for whatever Guitar tone you seek.

It might redefine your playing and you might love a little Genz Benz NeoX Combo, but it also might not be what you are wanting.

Thus, I suggested the Full Range PA Cabinet, Powered of course.

Focus on Things other than Berrenger. QSC had a good name last I knew. Look for used and check product reviews as normal.
Ibanez BTB 1006 Fretless and 405 (no Barts)
456 & 455(w/Barts)
Genz Benz NeoX400 112T & NeoX 112T cab.
Digitech BP-8 (x2)
Yamaha PB-1
Boss: SYB-5, PS-2, OD-20, EQ-20, PH-3,BF-3, CE-20, DD-20
Morely A/B
Sliide90027
Registered User
Join date: Oct 2012
368 IQ
#19
Quote by chatterbox272
I think I have to agree with Sliide on this, a PA and MultiFX is probably the way to go.
Maybe the aforementioned DigiTech BP355 and an active PA speaker like this Gemini RS-410. Then you can use the bass amp models for bass, and the guitar amp models for guitar. That should cover just about any sound you need from either bass or guitar quite adequately.



Chatter,

Thank you for your pleasant vote of agreement. Seriously. I appreaciate the good will.
Ibanez BTB 1006 Fretless and 405 (no Barts)
456 & 455(w/Barts)
Genz Benz NeoX400 112T & NeoX 112T cab.
Digitech BP-8 (x2)
Yamaha PB-1
Boss: SYB-5, PS-2, OD-20, EQ-20, PH-3,BF-3, CE-20, DD-20
Morely A/B
Dem0n0us
Registered User
Join date: Mar 2011
133 IQ
#20
Slide,
Yea, I heard Berhinger was not too reliable. I looked over the Genz Benz NeoX Combo and the size and specs are enticing, but I think I'll first check out all the available PA's and Monitors as you have suggested. Should I worry about woofer and voice coil size? Is it the same as amps, or is it unimportant in this case?
Opinions about these 2? Still need to explore further.

http://www.guitarcenter.com/Gemini-RS-415-15--Active-Loudspeaker-583062-i1477460.gc#customer-reviews

-and-

http://www.guitarcenter.com/Peavey-PV115D-15--Powered-Speaker-107619991-i2212410.gc
Sliide90027
Registered User
Join date: Oct 2012
368 IQ
#21
D,

I am not confident with Berrrenger to take your time in that direction, but if they have something interesting laying around when you are checking things out, take a look, but I would not send you looking at their product used.

The NeoX is cool as it has the 12" and a 12ax7 in the Preamp, the tone shaping in OUTRAGEOUS, but again, for guitar, I have my doubts about it making a traditionalist happy. Tone Shaping might well do the trick though, as all you need is a transducer and some juice when it comes down to it. (I Bought the Genz on the Specs of Frequency Response, Baltic Birch, power, and dual preamp. I got damn lucky, far more fortunate than I deserve. Such things should not be so easy...finding the perfect tone.)


First look at what is in your price range, 12's are real Tight and I do not envision my return to 15's unless I get Myers cabinets. (Not only am I happy with 12's, but people rush to my amp when I play.)

After you find something that you think you can afford and fits in your life, then look at the next thing up and listen for anything you are missing between the two (More is not always better). When you are done with this purchase you need to be happy where you are and know where you are going next should you hit limitations on the performance of the Cabinet.

Tone is not going to be replaced by the Size of either cone or coil. A 2 or 3 Way cabinet has multiple facets to it: coil size, cone size, Midrange coil/cone, crossover, titanium, Neodynium, byrellium, phenolic ...... It is not fair to send you out with a bunch of specs that you may never find used all in one place.

ULTIMATELY, Take things for what they are by EAR.( You would not believe how blown away I was by a Pair of 20 year old 100Watt RMS Rated Yamaha SP101's, and it had 15's)

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You are looking for a versitility that delivers your desired tone(s). I would begin my looking only at Power and Frequency Response (IF THEY HAVE A GRAPH SHOWING THE FREQ RESPONSE CURVE OF THE CABINET GET A COPY AND CONSIDER IT IN RELATIONSHIP TO YOUR TONE), then give it a Work out.

Your Ear will not lie to your Heart. When you are moved/inspired, you have found what you are looking for.

Then go home and try to find one and then a second one used, wait till you go Stereo.
Ibanez BTB 1006 Fretless and 405 (no Barts)
456 & 455(w/Barts)
Genz Benz NeoX400 112T & NeoX 112T cab.
Digitech BP-8 (x2)
Yamaha PB-1
Boss: SYB-5, PS-2, OD-20, EQ-20, PH-3,BF-3, CE-20, DD-20
Morely A/B
Last edited by Sliide90027 at Jan 15, 2013,
chatterbox272
Registered User
Join date: May 2011
1,237 IQ
#22
I wouldn't worry too much about size, although I would be wary with 8" and some 10" ones incase they can't handle the lower bass frequencies (someone who works in PA instore should be able to tell you whether it will handle a bass or not). Out of those two I'd pick the Gemini because the Peavey is ridiculously vague about it's power output. If you can go and test them and see if the Peavey is loud enough then I'd go with it though, Peavey gear is near indestructible.
Sliide90027
Registered User
Join date: Oct 2012
368 IQ
#23
Ok, I do not like Peavey. but this one you are looking at is Sound Renforcement, not merely Instrument Amps.

I will not be surprised if the Peavey Eats the Gemini's Lunch and Dinner.
Ibanez BTB 1006 Fretless and 405 (no Barts)
456 & 455(w/Barts)
Genz Benz NeoX400 112T & NeoX 112T cab.
Digitech BP-8 (x2)
Yamaha PB-1
Boss: SYB-5, PS-2, OD-20, EQ-20, PH-3,BF-3, CE-20, DD-20
Morely A/B
Dem0n0us
Registered User
Join date: Mar 2011
133 IQ
#24
Thank you for the extra research!
I was at guitar center to discuss this with the sales guys. They, however, are telling me that I need a mixer and a pair of speakers to get the desired results. I feel that this is not necessary. What is your opinion? Do I really need 2 speakers for a good sound? I feel that 1 is necessary... just like a normal guitar or bass amp.
And just to check, it's:

Guitar --> pedalboard --> Powered Speaker

Please insert anything else needed in this chain. Also what cables would be required for the speaker? I noticed some do not have the standard 1/4th inputs.

Thnks, I am really dedicated to realize this.
chatterbox272
Registered User
Join date: May 2011
1,237 IQ
#25
You are correct, you only need 1 speaker and you definitely don't need a mixer. They probably don't quite understand what it is that you're doing, because it's a bit unconventional.
What you need is exactly what you think you do, Guitar/Bass -> Pedalboard -> Powered Speaker. Most should have a standard 1/4" jack but if they don't then it will depend on the pedalboard. The BP355 has XLR outs so you would want an XLR cable (mic cable), if you get one that only has 1/4" outs and a speaker which only has XLR ins then you'll need a 1/4" to XLR cable.
Dem0n0us
Registered User
Join date: Mar 2011
133 IQ
#26
Ok, Thank you!
Ill try to make the pruchase this weekend. I'll come back and let you guys know how it went.
Sliide90027
Registered User
Join date: Oct 2012
368 IQ
#28
Play before you pay.

I doubt that the BP355 lacks the voltage to drive the Power Amp in the Cabinet.

The Sales Staff probably thinks you are going to run both Guitar and Bass at the same time.

If forced to get a Mixer, get something tiny and quiet and that should get you over the top.
Ibanez BTB 1006 Fretless and 405 (no Barts)
456 & 455(w/Barts)
Genz Benz NeoX400 112T & NeoX 112T cab.
Digitech BP-8 (x2)
Yamaha PB-1
Boss: SYB-5, PS-2, OD-20, EQ-20, PH-3,BF-3, CE-20, DD-20
Morely A/B
chatterbox272
Registered User
Join date: May 2011
1,237 IQ
#29
Quote by Sliide90027
Play before you pay.

I doubt that the BP355 lacks the voltage to drive the Power Amp in the Cabinet.

The Sales Staff probably thinks you are going to run both Guitar and Bass at the same time.

If forced to get a Mixer, get something tiny and quiet and that should get you over the top.

It definitely can drive a power amp, I own one and have been running it into the FX return of my Rumble 350 (bypassing the rumble preamp and tonestack, making it into a powered speaker) ever since I got the Rumble (I only got it because the only powered speakers I could get here were Behringer and I didn't trust them).
I agree the sales guy probably thinks you're actually trying to use it as a PA (the intended purpose) rather than using it as a makeshift guitar/bass amp.
Sliide90027
Registered User
Join date: Oct 2012
368 IQ
#30
Ok Chat, I knew that the notion was going to be posed about accepted conventions of amps.
So I am doing another thread, a History Lesson that Brings us to today.

Dem0n0us' willingness to travel this path is a great opportunity to open people's minds up here and break into New Territory.
Ibanez BTB 1006 Fretless and 405 (no Barts)
456 & 455(w/Barts)
Genz Benz NeoX400 112T & NeoX 112T cab.
Digitech BP-8 (x2)
Yamaha PB-1
Boss: SYB-5, PS-2, OD-20, EQ-20, PH-3,BF-3, CE-20, DD-20
Morely A/B