dietermoreno
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#1
I have some confusion about differences between metal sub genres.

I almost had an anyurism when someone on YouTube labeled a band as "metalemocore" and "metalgaycore".

Is this list that I have here correct?:


Prerequiste: The definition of garbage and the definition of punk

Sleeping With Sirens is related to punk rock. Post hardcore evolved from punk rock.

Some post hardcore bands are just garbage, like blood on the dance floor, black veil brides, Asking Alexandria, Abandon All Ships, Attack! Attack!, Make Me Famous, and Falling In Reverse.

Sleeping With Sirens is okay post hardcore.

Memphis May Fire is how post hardcore is supposed to sound.

Rise Against is also post hardcore.

So is A Day To Remember.

You can feel the rebellious punk spirit in these songs. So you can see that post hardcore is related to punk.

Post hardcore is actually more similar to punk than metalcore, because punk is against guitar solos and is about being a free thinker and post hard core is also usually against guitar solos and is about being a free thinker.

Metal core is hardcore punk with guitar solos and elements of thrash.

Those garbage bands that I listed, I don't think they even deserve to be called post hardcore, just there is nothing else to call them.

I think they could be fit into the same genre as Justin beiber: popular artists who only care about making money and how they look.

black veil brides is the opposite of punk.

Kiss is also the opposite of punk. How interesting that bvb get their fashion from Kiss.

Pretty much any band that can fill a stadium is the opposite of punk.

That means that the Rolling Stones aren't punk either, but they aren't garbage either.


Metal sub genres and comparasons to related genres

post hardcore is hardcore punk rock with synth, screaming, clean vocals, and has guitar riffs instead of just power chords like punk rock only has power chords. post hardcore doesn't usually have guitar solos, like punk.
metalcore is hardcore punk rock with screaming, clean vocals, has guitar riffs, and guitar solos are allowed.

examples of post hardcore artists who aren't garbage: Sleeping With Sirens, Pierce The Veil, Woe Is Me, Rise Against, Escape The Fate (depends on what song), blessthefall, Memphis May Fire, The Word Alive, Miss May I, The Color Morale

examples of metal core artists who aren't garbage: As I Lay Dying, All That Remains, Escape The Fate (depends on what song)

examples of pop artists who aren't garbage: Panic At The Disco


I forgot Avenged Sevenfold. They don't fit neatly into any genre. Everyone of their albumns is different.

Waking The Fallen: metalcore

City of Evil: heavy metal

Avenged Sevenfold: heavy metal or hard rock depending on the song

Nightmare: heavy metal or hard rock depending on the song


I would classify I See Stars as both Post Hardcore and Electronicore depending on the song.

I would classify Lamb of God and Pantera as grindcore.

I would classify Rings of Saturn as death metal.

I would classify Metallica, Antrax, and Slayer as thrash.

I would classify Suicide Silence and Oceano as deathcore.


I forgot hard rock for comparsion.

Examples of hard rock artists: AC/DC, buck Cherry, Theory of a Deadman, Stoned Sour

Examples of nu metal artists: Linkin Park, Skillet, Three Days Grace, Slipknot

Examples of heavy metal artists: black Sabath, Five Finger Death Punch, Avenged Sevenfold, Slipknot, Iron Maiden, Megadef
wintee_madness
nyrkki
Join date: Mar 2007
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#2
Leave now, and never come back... Pantera are a Grindcore band are they...
nyrkki
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Kepulix
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#3
Quote by dietermoreno
I would classify Lamb of God and Pantera as grindcore.
What the fuck.


You put a lot of trouble into nothing, mate.
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I... I should return to Arkham.


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Wesbanez
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#4
Quote by wintee_madness
Leave now, and never come back...


This, please go away and mull over what a pointless load of drivel you just posted.

We know being 14 is tough, you want to classify everything and prove to other 14 year olds that you can read wikipedia, but for everyone else its boring and really quite sad.

Please PM me your mailing address so I can invoice you for the pain I experienced reading through your "post".
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wintee_madness
nyrkki
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#5
Quote by Wesbanez

Please PM me your mailing address so I can invoice you for the pain I experienced reading through your "post".


This!
nyrkki
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Ultraussie
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#6
I would classify Lamb of God and Pantera as grindcore.


Ohhhhhh you out to rustle people's jimmies.

Why did you make this OP?


And what the helll does post hardcore have to do with anything?
IN the metal forum?
And pretty much 99% of the people in this metal subforum already know the subgenres, your pretty off with them, and like, subgenres arent concrete, allot of bands take influences from different subgenres, not nessacarily make crossover genres but you get what I mean..

Like yeh

Stop trying to classify everything.
METAL!
Last edited by Ultraussie at Jan 17, 2013,
BENDO789
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#7
Quote by dietermoreno

Rise Against is also post hardcore.

Pretty much any band that can fill a stadium is the opposite of punk.




So Rise Against are the opposite of punk? Nice logic...
ChemicalFire
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#8
Everything you've posted is wrong.


Everything. (well maybe not quite everything but everyone knows that Slayer are thrash...)


You can learn something if you hang around, but so far you know nothing of music. Let's get a few things straight.

Post Hardcore- A genre that is EXTREMELY hard to define, Botch is post hardcore, but honestly I'm not enough of a expert to tell you why. Synths + Breakdowns DOES NOT make posthardcore.

Metalcore IS metal mixed with hardcore elements, but all the bands you listed are"numetalcore" which is the scene that occurred by watering down Melodic Hardcore bands like 7 Angels 7 Plagues and mixing it with Melodic Death Metal from the Scandinavian scene, which resulted in all the hardcore elements being washed out and the bands just sound like a bad version of metal (mostly). These days Metalcore is used as a by word for watered down Metal akin to Asking Alexandria. This is wrong. Bands like Converge are "tr00" metalcore.


And this is grindcore...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kF2eIOXtoYs

Please explain how lamb of god sounds like this?
All I want is for everyone to go to hell...
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Last edited by ChemicalFire at Jan 17, 2013,
AJScott
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#9
Quote by dietermoreno



post hard core is also usually against guitar solos and is about being a free thinker.




I would of thought solos were breaking out of what everyone else is doing, standing out, bruv.
badfish_lewis
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#10
"Those garbage bands that I listed, I don't think they even deserve to be called post hardcore, just there is nothing else to call them.
I think they could be fit into the same genre as Justin beiber: popular artists who only care about making money and how they look."

Yes because only real artists don't care about money. Are you an idiot? You don't think your "cool" artists care about money? My friend, when you grow up, have kids (God I hope you don't), a mortgage, car payments etc. you will quickly learn that unless you want to live on the street you do need money. Grow up.
Wesbanez
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#11
Quote by badfish_lewis
you will quickly learn that unless you want to live on the street you do need money. Grow up.


+1 skinny jeans, black makeup and bi-daily trips to the latest "trendy" hairdressers doesn't come cheap.

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dietermoreno
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#12
Quote by badfish_lewis


Yes because only real artists don't care about money. Are you an idiot? You don't think your "cool" artists care about money? My friend, when you grow up, have kids (God I hope you don't), a mortgage, car payments etc. you will quickly learn that unless you want to live on the street you do need money. Grow up.


Well that's why I don't want to be a professional artist, because I wouldn't want to cater to a sub genre and fan base that is mass marketable.


Quote by ChemicalFire
Everything you've posted is wrong.


Everything. (well maybe not quite everything but everyone knows that Slayer are thrash...)


You can learn something if you hang around, but so far you know nothing of music. Let's get a few things straight.

Post Hardcore- A genre that is EXTREMELY hard to define, Botch is post hardcore, but honestly I'm not enough of a expert to tell you why. Synths + Breakdowns DOES NOT make posthardcore.

Metalcore IS metal mixed with hardcore elements, but all the bands you listed are"numetalcore" which is the scene that occurred by watering down Melodic Hardcore bands like 7 Angels 7 Plagues and mixing it with Melodic Death Metal from the Scandinavian scene, which resulted in all the hardcore elements being washed out and the bands just sound like a bad version of metal (mostly). These days Metalcore is used as a by word for watered down Metal akin to Asking Alexandria. This is wrong. Bands like Converge are "tr00" metalcore.


And this is grindcore...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kF2eIOXtoYs

Please explain how lamb of god sounds like this?

I didn't call Asking Alexandria metalcore, I called them both post hardcore and garbage.

I called As I Lay Dying and All That Remains metalcore.

I have never heard of grind core before, and when I said on Facebook that Lamb of God was metalcore, I was corrected and told it is grind core.

So how would you describe Lamb of God then if it is neither metalcore nor grind core?

Would Lamb of God be melodic death metal?


I apologize if there is already a thread that discusses this subject.

Please link me to it if there is already a thread that discusses this subject.

Hopefully if I hang out on here more and less on Facebook and Wikipedia, I will learn something about this subject.
Last edited by dietermoreno at Jan 17, 2013,
Wesbanez
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#13
Quote by dietermoreno
I have never heard of grind core before, and when I said on Facebook that Lamb of God was metalcore, I was corrected and told it is grind core.


All this proves is that your Facebook "friends" are retards
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ChemicalFire
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#14
Lamb of God are either Metalcore or Groove Metal, depending on how kind you want to be about their status as a metalband, but either would probably be right to some extent.
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eazy-c
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#15
None of those bands are post-hardcore.
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Nietsche
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#16
The metal recommendation thread at the top of the forum has an Okish overview of most metal subgenres and album recommendations for each sub-genre. I recommend reading and checking out a few of the albums. You might actually learn something.
.
llanafreak44
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#17
Where do you see the punk influence in Sleeping With Sirens? They sound like Paramore with Justin Beiber as the singer.
Steve08
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#18
Quote by Ultraussie
Ohhhhhh you out to rustle people's jimmies.

Why did you make this OP?


And what the helll does post hardcore have to do with anything?
IN the metal forum?
And pretty much 99% of the people in this metal subforum already know the subgenres, your pretty off with them, and like, subgenres arent concrete, allot of bands take influences from different subgenres, not nessacarily make crossover genres but you get what I mean..

Like yeh

Stop trying to classify everything.
When Ultraussie, of all people, cuts to the heart of a thread, you know the TS is probably retarded.
Quote by ChemicalFire
Lamb of God are either Metalcore or Groove Metal, depending on how kind you want to be about their status as a metalband, but either would probably be right to some extent.
Groove metal does not exist, any band that I've heard in that style incorporates vaguely thrash oriented riffs at middle tempos and then chops it all up with annoying, syncopated "groove" (I hate when people use this term in regards to metalcore. It's like, just listen to Parliament) riffs. They are metalcore, only they use harmonic minor/Phrygian dominant-esque note choice to achieve some semblance of an identity. Bands like LoG and also Chimaira, really any "NWOAHM" band, represent a contemporary descent into Pantera-styled crowd pandering that begin with albums such as Heartwork and Slaughter of the Soul which destroyed almost all cerebral aspects of underground metal, and so normed it into the commercial surrogate for socialization that is rock music, something I personally feel is worthy of intense scorn and contempt.
Last edited by Steve08 at Jan 17, 2013,
Haytham
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#19
Post- genre labels, as far as I'm aware, generally refers to using the basic tropes of a style of music, but going beyond them in some sense through complexity, using the tropes towards different ends than they were originally used for, and so on. It takes what already exists past itself. It's a fairly nebulous label at times, but at the same time I'm not sure that there's much of a basis for calling bands like Rise Against 'post-hardcore,' or generally bands which don't so much develop and complicate a genre but rather change it with outside influences or more melodic tendencies.

Quote by badfish_lewis
Yes because only real artists don't care about money. Are you an idiot? You don't think your "cool" artists care about money? My friend, when you grow up, have kids (God I hope you don't), a mortgage, car payments etc. you will quickly learn that unless you want to live on the street you do need money. Grow up.

Only. It's a word. It means a thing.
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Reduces it to none.
Nietsche
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#20
Quote by Haytham
Post- genre labels, as far as I'm aware, generally refers to using the basic tropes of a style of music, but going beyond them in some sense through complexity, using the tropes towards different ends than they were originally used for, and so on.


The post-rock bands that I've listened to don't tend to use any of the tropes of rock music besides the instrumentation though. And complexity doesn't sound like a feature of post-anything either. Most of the time it seems to refer to bands, usually instrumental, who have an ambient/atmospheric sound.
.
Morphogenesis26
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#21
Alright TS, this is how it goes.

If you want to listen to Post-Hardcore than go to the Hardcore forum and ask the Post-Hardcore thread for good examples of the music. I'm not expert on the subgenre so I won't make any claims on it aside from the fact that every band you called Post-Hardcore are not Post-Hardcore.

Now, for what you're calling Metal:

If you want Metalcore than go listen to Converge, Integrity, Shai Hulud, Earth Crisis, or 7 Angels 7 Plagues. What you're calling Metalcore has almost no baring on these bands and they get all their cues from this album, generally.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hJme5uubkyQ

It's basically Metal music from the mainstream Melodic Death Metal bands from Gothenburg Sweden that overused pedal riffs(which is very apparent in early Metal and Thrash Metal) a long with a sense of "folk-like" tremolo picked passages and clean sections. Bands like Killswitch Engage, Shadows Fall, Trivium, As I Lay Dying, etc. pretty much took all they could from these bands and added so more Metalcore-sounding vocals. If you want to name these bands then call them Pop Metal or something.

Now, for bands like Asking Alexandria and their horrible kin:

They took the bare essentials of the previous bands I just mentioned and turned it into heavy pop music, basically. I would regard them as garbage since there's really nothing good you can say about them aside from it's sort of catchy sometimes.
ChemicalFire
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#23
Not liking the Slaughter of the Soul bashing in this thread ¬_¬
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...It's the last place I was seen before I lost myself



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Born Headless
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#24
Quote by Nietsche
The post-rock bands that I've listened to don't tend to use any of the tropes of rock music besides the instrumentation though. And complexity doesn't sound like a feature of post-anything either. Most of the time it seems to refer to bands, usually instrumental, who have an ambient/atmospheric sound.


Only in post-rock really. I think Haytham pretty much nailed it. I know what you mean though. I'm sure there are many different takes on the post-rock sound that far different than bands like Russian Circles though I couldn't name them. I think that's just a particular style that gained some popularity and happens to be within the post-rock spectrum. Post-whatever doesn't signify a very specific sound, it's just the bulk of it is made of stagnant, generic bands like everything else though the term seems like it should signify otherwise. It's similar to the word progressive being slapped on everything.
technicolour
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#25
After taking the time to read the whole thing, I thoroughly enjoyed this:

"Pretty much any band that can fill a stadium is the opposite of punk.

That means that the Rolling Stones aren't punk either, but they aren't garbage either."

I mean, I guess the rolling stones aren't punk.
Steve08
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#26
Quote by ChemicalFire
Not liking the Slaughter of the Soul bashing in this thread ¬_¬
It is not a particularly defensible album; while there are some songs which I enjoy for nostalgic reason to this day, as a whole, it's just not particularly imaginative material, featuring the same kinds of basic riff forms merely reset into moderately different note choice for the semblance of variance, and the songwriting is fairly prosaic in that it is shackled around transitions between points of fixed, static instrumentation like in rock/pop music and all sub-par metal, or attempted metal music.

Beyond this, it mostly seems to exist as a collection of songs and little else, with no clear, cohesive artistic statement being made, something starkly contrary to their epic debut, The Red in the Sky is Ours, which not only features clearly defined peaks of musical tension/release throughout the album, but is also based fully upon the motif-driven compositional language which is also rife within the music of Morbid Angel, Ludwig van Beethoven, Incantation, King Crimson, Kraftwerk, etc., with the songs on TRITSIO being comprised by the interplay of melodies and phrases, rather than as if the structure is formed of individual, static islands which are repeated in some basic order to form a song, moving as blocks rather than creating any sort of true narrative.

It's a masterpiece of progressive death metal, whereas Slaughter of the Soul mostly only bears relevance upon shallow music that is written by instrumentalists who only grasp music at the aesthetic level, and as such, I personally see no objective reason for one to choose SOTS over their first album (or With Fear I Kiss the Burning Darkness), other than subjectively derived notions of value (which is how 98% of people justify opinion).
Last edited by Steve08 at Jan 17, 2013,
PoisonousNipple
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#27
Quote by dietermoreno


So how would you describe Lamb of God then if it is neither metalcore nor grind core?



Shit.