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#1
After years of deciding to play or not, I'm ready to buy my first guitar. I don't want a starterkit, but a guitar that will still be good, as I progress. My budget is €500 (+/- $650). But I come from Germany, so the prices of guitars are not exactly the same as the conversion. For this money I think I will be able to get a decent guitar + amp. Music I would like to play (eventually) are Kings of Leon, Pearl Jam, Lenny Kravitz and old rock like Aerosmith and Led Zeppelin. I know that it isn't exactly the same, but I want to get as close as possible within my budget.

Of course I have looked around myself too before asking this question. Most of those players use a Gibson Les Paul. Therefore an Epiphone Les Paul Standard (€350,-) would be good I think. That said, I still don't really understand the difference between P90's and humbuckers. Would either of those make a big difference in my music taste? And with that guitar that also leaves €150,- to be spend on an amp. I would like to be able to use a foot-switch, so the Fender Mustang 1, Line6 Spider IV 15, Fender Frontman 25R, Vox VT20+ and the Marshall MG15CFX would be in my budget.

I'm sorry that I don't have that much knowledge, so if I made a bad choice please say so. I just didn't want to be the 100th guy to ask this question, without even thinking about it himself.
#3
Quote by <3beat
Stay away from Spider and MG amps.


Can you elaborate why? They both seem to get good reviews.
#4
They sound, to be blunt, shitty.

Very fuzzy and very digital sounding. You might not notice it at first, but when your ear grow to tone, your ears will hate you.

Also, I don't know much about Epiphones but I think the Epi LP Standard is a bad one as well, shoddy quality.
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#5
Quote by jeleopard
They sound, to be blunt, shitty.

Very fuzzy and very digital sounding. You might not notice it at first, but when your ear grow to tone, your ears will hate you.

Also, I don't know much about Epiphones but I think the Epi LP Standard is a bad one as well, shoddy quality.


Oh I certainly do not want that, I would like my guitar and amp to last for years. That's the reason I don't want to buy a starter kit! What do you recommend then, keeping my preferred bands in mind?
#6
Id suggest the vox vt+ and a fender or squire strat with a bridge humbucker
#7
Quote by Germanrookie
Oh I certainly do not want that, I would like my guitar and amp to last for years. That's the reason I don't want to buy a starter kit! What do you recommend then, keeping my preferred bands in mind?



I know nothing of European prices, unfortunately, nor am I an Epiphone expert, but http://www.musiciansfriend.com/guitars/epiphone-les-paul-custom-pro-electric-guitar looks okay. I think it'd be pushing your budget, though. Personally, I'd look at other brands, seeing as Epiphone/Gibsons can be hit or miss, such as Fender.


As for amps, the Fender Mustang is okay.
Legion!
Original 1969 Fender Jazzmaster
Jackson JS32R Dinky "Curry"
ESP/LTD SN-1000
Jackson Stars Kelly "Aiko"
Ormsby SX6 prototype
Dingwall NG-2 "Kimmy"
MiM Fender Jazz Bass "Pancho"
EVH 5153
#8
Epiphone LP standards don't just fall apart. I had one for years as my main guitar, it held up fine. Sold it for a nicer guitar, but it's not bad by any means especially for a beginner.
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Quote by Anonden
You CAN play anything with anything....but some guitars sound right for some things, and not for others. Single coils sound retarded for metal, though those who are apeshit about harpsichord probably beg to differ.
#9
Quote by Germanrookie
That said, I still don't really understand the difference between P90's and humbuckers. Would either of those make a big difference in my music taste?


p90s are single coils, but they're pretty fat-sounding single coils (rather than fender-style single coils). i'd probably go with humbuckers for your first guitar, they're probably more useful...
Quote by crownegamers
I saw in a couple of pictures that on Bucketheads Les Paul (only some pictures) that his neck pickup is painted in white. Can anyone explain to me why he would do this, and if there are any pros and cons.

Quote by dspellman
The guy wears a KFC Bucket and a white mask during performances, and you're interested in the color of his pickup covers?

#10
P90s are very versatile pickups if you know how to use the volume controls on your amp. They'd be better with a valve amp though.

Epi les Paul will sort you out for a number of years. As far as amps go, try a Roland Cube. I'm not too knowledgeable about starter amps though.
#11
^ oh i like p90s, i was just working on the basis that being noiseless and arguably slightly better for heavier tones, while no worse for lighter tones, not to mention way more popular (in terms of recorded tones) humbuckers were the way to go for a first guitar.

those japanese fender pawn shops might well be worth considering- granted, they're not gibsony, but having something which is made in japan for your budget is not to be sniffed at. I should point out i haven't tried them, though.
Quote by crownegamers
I saw in a couple of pictures that on Bucketheads Les Paul (only some pictures) that his neck pickup is painted in white. Can anyone explain to me why he would do this, and if there are any pros and cons.

Quote by dspellman
The guy wears a KFC Bucket and a white mask during performances, and you're interested in the color of his pickup covers?

#13
Quote by Dave_Mc
p90s are single coils, but they're pretty fat-sounding single coils (rather than fender-style single coils). i'd probably go with humbuckers for your first guitar, they're probably more useful...



+1


As said before, I vote for the Les Paul. For amp ideas, I'd look at the Vox VT series amplifiers. You can find them used on a really good budget, and they're probably my favorite series of solid state amps. They're a step above beginner and emulate most valve amp styles.

Quote by EyeNon15
Thats too bad, I was under the impression I was arguing something profound


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#14
I wouldn't dismiss P90s so easily. They were on the very first les Paul, which was a jazz guitar, they are pretty much the punk pickup and can do both cleans and distorted sounds very well. But finding an Epi lp with them in in your price range might be a bit difficult so just go with humbuckers
#15
The Pawn Shops from Fender are really great guitars!

Mesa Royal Atlantic
Emperor 4x12 Silver Bells
PRS Swamp Ash Limited Custom 24
EQD Acapulco Gold
MXR Carbon Copy
EHX Epitome
EHX Superego
Fuzz Hugger Algal Bloom
Way Huge Fat Sandwich
#16
If you're in Germany you have Thomann.de! Great website, and they offer tone samples and everything. Definitely check 'em out.
Quote by luxeion
i keep asking my dad for wood. but he keeps getting annoyed (he's working on a house). and i'm too young to go outside.

#17
Quote by jeleopard
They sound, to be blunt, shitty.

Very fuzzy and very digital sounding. You might not notice it at first, but when your ear grow to tone, your ears will hate you.

Also, I don't know much about Epiphones but I think the Epi LP Standard is a bad one as well, shoddy quality.


Haven't played any of the Chinese or Indonesian models, Epiphone that is, but my 1988 Korean LP Custom is badass. My tech has worked on literally thousands of LPs and he says mine is up there with the best of them, had to change out some hardware, all the same though. It plays as good as every LP I've ever played.


To be honest your plan for starter gear sounds pretty good. Get what you like, play and listen to a lot of guitars and amps. Get what makes you happy, that's what it's all about isn't it??
Last edited by The_rylan at Jan 18, 2013,
#19
I will go for a guitar with humbuckers instead of P90's then. This guitar is only a few euros more expensive, and the humbuckers can be split. It is a step up from the guitar I mentioned previously, and with that feature it will be more versitile right?

http://www.thomann.de/gb/epiphone_les_paul_standard_cherry_sunburst.htm

And the amp will be either a Mustang or the Vox VT20+ then. Will I be able to get the right tone out of both amps?
#20
^ which les paul model did you mention previously? i couldn't see a link
Quote by crownegamers
I saw in a couple of pictures that on Bucketheads Les Paul (only some pictures) that his neck pickup is painted in white. Can anyone explain to me why he would do this, and if there are any pros and cons.

Quote by dspellman
The guy wears a KFC Bucket and a white mask during performances, and you're interested in the color of his pickup covers?

#21
Yea, no Line 6 Spiders, no MGs. Epiphone LPs are great starter guitars, as are the Squier Custom Vibes.

I had a Squier Strat when I was younger, but I didn't like it after I heard my friends Epiphone LP.

I later got a LP. It's quite a cool guitar, if you can get cheap pickups, maybe used ones they seem to benefit greatly from that. I wouldn't spend £150 on new pickups as that's over half the value of the guitar, which is kind of a false economy, I would definitely recommend getting some used pickups if you want to change them. But whatever rocks your boat.

The Mustangs are good practice amps, as are the Vox Valvetronix series. I'd suggest checking them both out and seeing which models you like the best.

But I had a little look on the german eBay for you. You might be able to get both a used Epiphone LP, and a used Fender Blues Jr (which is one of the best practice amps and blows the Vox and Mustang out of the water) for more or less your price range, and then splash out a little more and get a Blues Overdrive pedal, the Blues Junior has no overdrive, so you'd need one.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Epiphone-Les-Paul-Standard-Ebony-E-Gitarre-LP-Schwarz-/271137282027?pt=Gitarren&hash=item3f210a97eb

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Fender-Pro-Junior-Amp-Rohrenverstarker-E-Gitarre-Blues-Vintage-Neuwertig-/321054893528?pt=Amps&hash=item4ac05ce5d8

That's around 550 euro.

Any of those options seem good to me, but I think that if you go used you could get some really cool stuff.

I hope this helps.
Quote by Shredwizard445
Go ahead and spend your money, I don't care. It won't make you sound better.


Quote by Shredwizard445
Sure upgrading your gear will make you sound better.


#22
Quote by Dave_Mc
^ which les paul model did you mention previously? i couldn't see a link


I didnt post a link, but I talked about the Epiphone LP Standard in my first post.

@ Mephaphil

Don't you think I will benefit from the extra features of the Pro model? (I never played a guitar before, so thats why I ask so much questions).
#23
http://www.thomann.de/de/yamaha_pacifica_112_lpb.htm

http://www.thomann.de/de/vox_vt20.htm

http://www.thomann.de/gb/vox_vfs5_footswitch.htm

seriously, this setup will be perfect for you - great for learning on, good enough to gig with at a pinch and the guitar is plenty good enough to keep as a backup no matter how good you get and how expensive the stuff you buy in future is.

I'd take a Pacifica over an Epiphone as a starter guitar any day, Les Pauls are nice but the Pacifica will be lighter and much more comfortable to play which can make a big difference in the earlt stages of learning. It's also a very versatile guitar that can comfortably cover a range of tones.

The footswitch means you can change stuff on the amp without moving away from the guitar,
Actually called Mark!

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#24
^ if he does consider the pacifica then those japanese-made pawn shops are back in contention...

Quote by Germanrookie
I didnt post a link, but I talked about the Epiphone LP Standard in my first post.



ah ok, thanks. i'm guessing they're much of a muchness, but the pro has the coil splits, which you might as well have for some versatility, I guess. i doubt the pro plus is a better guitar, but it has a few more features which may be useful, kind of thing.
Quote by crownegamers
I saw in a couple of pictures that on Bucketheads Les Paul (only some pictures) that his neck pickup is painted in white. Can anyone explain to me why he would do this, and if there are any pros and cons.

Quote by dspellman
The guy wears a KFC Bucket and a white mask during performances, and you're interested in the color of his pickup covers?

#25
Quote by Germanrookie
I didnt post a link, but I talked about the Epiphone LP Standard in my first post.

@ Mephaphil

Don't you think I will benefit from the extra features of the Pro model? (I never played a guitar before, so thats why I ask so much questions).


Do you mean the PlusTop Pro? If yes, I don't know if it's worth the extra money. The pickups are better but coil tapping is something that you may not bother with. You may like the stock pickups, you need to play them both.

Nearly every suggestion has merit, it just depends what you want from your guitar and amp.

If you want light, gig ready, and a solid guitar go with Stevens suggestion.

If you don't mind a little weight and want humbucker tones like Slash, Jimmy Page, etc change the Pacifica for the LP.

If you want a good guitar with a better amp go with my suggestion.

If you wanna spend more and get the PlusTop Pro then do that and figure out what amp you want.

As I said, all the suggestions are valid, it just depends on which one fits now that you have the information.
Quote by Shredwizard445
Go ahead and spend your money, I don't care. It won't make you sound better.


Quote by Shredwizard445
Sure upgrading your gear will make you sound better.


Last edited by Mephaphil at Jan 18, 2013,
#26
It's definitely worth going into a shop and having a quick look over different models to see how they feel - you may not be able to play yet but you should still be able to tell if something's going to be comfortable for you with regards to things like weight, body shape and the feel of the neck.
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i wanna see a clip of a recto buying some groceries.


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#27
Quote by Wisthekiller
The Epiphone Les Paul Standard and the VT or Mustang or Vypyr or or Vox Lil Night Train (you may need to go used on one of those) would be a a great start.



I've got a Vox ill Night Train. The cab is crap but the amp is great. I love it, everything can be played on it.
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#28
Quote by steven seagull
It's definitely worth going into a shop and having a quick look over different models to see how they feel - you may not be able to play yet but you should still be able to tell if something's going to be comfortable for you with regards to things like weight, body shape and the feel of the neck.



+1

Quote by EyeNon15
Thats too bad, I was under the impression I was arguing something profound


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#29
I will go to the shop tomorrow to test out some guitars, thanks for all the help I got so far.
Now I will also need to buy an instrument cable. I've read that tweed cables are too stiff and difficult to handle, so I don't want those. The question remains, what is a good buy? Most products recommended here aren't for sale in Germany.
#30
I've used tweed cables for 10 years, they're great. I've never found them stiff.
Quote by Shredwizard445
Go ahead and spend your money, I don't care. It won't make you sound better.


Quote by Shredwizard445
Sure upgrading your gear will make you sound better.


#31
Quote by Germanrookie
I will go to the shop tomorrow to test out some guitars, thanks for all the help I got so far.
Now I will also need to buy an instrument cable. I've read that tweed cables are too stiff and difficult to handle, so I don't want those. The question remains, what is a good buy? Most products recommended here aren't for sale in Germany.



um, pretty sure they are...

http://www.thomann.de

http://www.musicstore.de/de_DE/EUR/
Actually called Mark!

Quote by TNfootballfan62
People with a duck for their avatar always give good advice.

...it's a seagull

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i wanna see a clip of a recto buying some groceries.


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#33
klotz, sommer, van damme (all with neutrik jacks edit; not sommer, they use some other jack) are all pretty good and should be easily available in europe (and more to the point, not silly money). they do a range of cables from low end to higher end, but even the lower end ones should be ok. they're normally around 15-20 euros or so.

e.g. http://www.thomann.de/gb/sommer_cable_the_spirit_xxl_instr_60.htm (3 metres might be plenty if you're only playing at home)
Quote by crownegamers
I saw in a couple of pictures that on Bucketheads Les Paul (only some pictures) that his neck pickup is painted in white. Can anyone explain to me why he would do this, and if there are any pros and cons.

Quote by dspellman
The guy wears a KFC Bucket and a white mask during performances, and you're interested in the color of his pickup covers?

#34
Quote by jeleopard
They sound, to be blunt, shitty.

Very fuzzy and very digital sounding. You might not notice it at first, but when your ear grow to tone, your ears will hate you.

Also, I don't know much about Epiphones but I think the Epi LP Standard is a bad one as well, shoddy quality.


Plus the decay is very bad on Spiders. It just kind dies suddenly.

Epi SP Standards are solid guitars. I wouldn't recommend any of the cheaper models.

The coil tapping on the Plustop Pros is meh. I know coil tapping produces a weaker output than a real single coil, but I just couldn't get that snarl out of them. This includes my Washburn. I think coil tapping is more a gimmick than a useful feature.
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MXR '78 Custom Badass Distortion
Last edited by Shadowofravenwo at Jan 18, 2013,
#35
^ i wouldn't say splits are totally a gimmick... but they're definitely the poor cousin if you're used to "true" single coils sounds. If you need humbucker sounds 90% of the time and only occasional single coil sounds, they're fine. If you need a 50:50 split (or close enough to that) a guitar with both humbuckers and single coils is probably a better idea.
Quote by crownegamers
I saw in a couple of pictures that on Bucketheads Les Paul (only some pictures) that his neck pickup is painted in white. Can anyone explain to me why he would do this, and if there are any pros and cons.

Quote by dspellman
The guy wears a KFC Bucket and a white mask during performances, and you're interested in the color of his pickup covers?

#36
Quote by Dave_Mc
^ i wouldn't say splits are totally a gimmick... but they're definitely the poor cousin if you're used to "true" single coils sounds. If you need humbucker sounds 90% of the time and only occasional single coil sounds, they're fine. If you need a 50:50 split (or close enough to that) a guitar with both humbuckers and single coils is probably a better idea.


That's true. My Washburn does have a hb-s-hb configuration. I guess it's not fair to compare a real with an add-on feature. I'm not a big single guy.
Washburn MG-44(E)
Ibanez RG421 (Eb)
Art & Lutherie Electric Cutaway
Vox Valvetronix VT40
Vox AC4tv 1x10
Vox Original Wah-Wah Pedal V847-A
MXR '78 Custom Badass Distortion
#37
oh, your post was perfectly fine, i was just clarifying a few points in it . particularly your point about coil splits generally being weaker than true single coils- you can get round that by using hotter humbuckers, but then that's only a solution if you actually want hotter humbuckers, lol.
Quote by crownegamers
I saw in a couple of pictures that on Bucketheads Les Paul (only some pictures) that his neck pickup is painted in white. Can anyone explain to me why he would do this, and if there are any pros and cons.

Quote by dspellman
The guy wears a KFC Bucket and a white mask during performances, and you're interested in the color of his pickup covers?

#38
I've got coil splitting on my Les Paul and yeah, it can be a bit underwhelming but then I turn on the midboost on my amp and I can get some really authentic single coil tones.
#39
Today I visited some stores, and while the Epiphone looked great on the internet, it didn't feel like a quality product. I did try out some other guitars, and these caught my interest:

ESP LTD MH-100QM - €299
Ibanez GRG270B - €299
Hagstrom XL5 - €399
Hagstrom Super Swede - €499

I've also listened to the amps, and the Mustang 1 was a lot cheaper but sounded good also. So I'm going with that one. It costs €99 so I have enough money left to buy the Super Swede (although I don't know if its the best, thats where I need your help!).

Any comments on the four guitars in this post? Don't want to go downhill from when I started this thread haha.
#40
I've only played a Super Swede out of that lineup there, but I really liked it. I'm not even an LP guy.

Quote by EyeNon15
Thats too bad, I was under the impression I was arguing something profound


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