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opc100
UG's Rex
Join date: Sep 2007
2,149 IQ
#1
Just had a debate with somebody after they showed me their torrent collection of games, movies, music, porn and books which went into terabytes worth of data. He admitted that he barely uses half the stuff he downloads but just 'likes to have it'. When I asked him how he justified this to himself he went on a massive spiel about how piracy isn't stealing, it's just 'duplication' and that nobody loses out as a result of his actions; in fact his recommendations if it's good may lead to more sales wtc. He also said that if he really likes something he'll buy it but when pressed he admitted this is rarely the case unless he seeks to gain something more e.g. Online multiplayer in games etc.

What fascinates me is that he didn't see anything wrong with what he was doing. Even seemed to think it was his moral prerogative to do it.

Now I will admit to 'indulging' in this act a fair bit myself, but I accept it for what it is; nicking stuff for free that I should pay for. Which camp do you fall into? Is there really any justification for it or are people just kidding themselves?
hello
willT08
Banned
Join date: Jul 2009
2,923 IQ
#2
Do it all the time, don't feel bad about it, but don't try and justify it.
a_7_x
x'; DROP TABLE *; --
Join date: Sep 2006
425 IQ
#3
Technology moves forward.

Fans adapted in how they obtained music, musicians adapt in the music they play, the music industry never and so are losing money.
Demon Wolf
GT's Iron Fisted Leader
Join date: Jul 2005
1,902 IQ
#5
I do it. It's wrong.

I mean, if people want to download illegaly, fine, but those who try to justify it with paper-thin arguments drive me nuts. It's bullshit.
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demitriv
Registered User
Join date: Dec 2008
1,088 IQ
#8
I don't download stuff but I do watch tv programs online but my excuse would be that we have sky so we get all these programs anyway its just easier to watch them online some times.
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ali.guitarkid7
Gets Easier
Join date: Oct 2009
2,304 IQ
#9
Eh, justifying piracy really doesn't matter. I'm not really hurting anyone. I'm either going to pay some other asshole selling me a low quality rip (that's how things work here: most music/dvd stores just sell pirated copies), or I'm going to get it for free. I'm not going to order something off the internet because: there's no easy way I'm going to receive it, I don't have a way of paying for the product, I don't have the money to get a way to pay for products and I don't have the money to pay for the product anyway.


However, justifying piracy is not wrong at all. If you've never tried to justify piracy (or anything for that matter), then you really don't know whether it's wrong or right.
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I actually feel sorry for him, like seriously, get help
Obsceneairwaves
UG Member
Join date: Sep 2011
1,001 IQ
#10
I don't pirate things just because I don't care enough to do it...


But it's really no different than borrowing your friends cd and copying it to your computer, or burning it...

and no one seems to have a problem with that


Besides, pirates believe in equality. I like pirates.
It's over simplified, So what!

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ErikLensherr
MGTOW
Join date: Jul 2011
1,630 IQ
#13
Well, my iPod would cost thousands of dollars to fill with music purchased legally, and there's no way I'd be spending that much money I don't have on music, regardless of whether or not there were a free alternative. In fact, were downloading not to exist, I likely wouldn't bother with an iPod at all. I'd have a CD player or Walkman or something. So that's a sale Apple wouldn't have made, and a product a Chinese kid wouldn't have manufactured, and a paycheck they wouldn't have earned and several meals they wouldn't be able to put on their family's table. Cogito ergo sum, downloading is justified.
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Battery Chicken
Viva la Revolucion!
Join date: Aug 2006
434 IQ
#14
I don't do it all that often, usually only if I can't obtain it by legal means.
The main reason is that poor quality annoys the shit out of me, which a lot of pirated stuff usually is. Also when you spend a day downloading a movie and it turns out that its just 2 hours of porn....yeah well I suppose that's not all that bad.
WCPhils
UnBanned
Join date: Sep 2010
731 IQ
#15
People who illegally download games annoy me.
___

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she was saying things like... do you want to netflix and chill but just the chill part...too bad she'll never know that I only like the Netflix part...
rolandroi
it is known
Join date: Nov 2012
1,244 IQ
#16
Quote by Battery Chicken
I don't do it all that often, usually only if I can't obtain it by legal means.
The main reason is that poor quality annoys the shit out of me, which a lot of pirated stuff usually is. Also when you spend a day downloading a movie and it turns out that its just 2 hours of porn....yeah well I suppose that's not all that bad.


That only means your ISP is bad.
ChemicalFire
King of Bacon Pancakes
Join date: Oct 2007
5,773 IQ
#17
Quote by ErikLensherr
Well, my iPod would cost thousands of dollars to fill with music purchased legally, and there's no way I'd be spending that much money I don't have on music, regardless of whether or not there were a free alternative. In fact, were downloading not to exist, I likely wouldn't bother with an iPod at all.


You have no right to just take the music that someone worked and paid to make, you are scum, etc etc.


We've had this thread so many times that I just can't be assed anymore.
All I want is for everyone to go to hell...
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rolandroi
it is known
Join date: Nov 2012
1,244 IQ
#18
This thread is pointless. How about let's just calculate how much money we robbed from those companies?

I'd say mine would be over 200,000 dollars xD
ChemicalFire
King of Bacon Pancakes
Join date: Oct 2007
5,773 IQ
#19
I stopped torrenting music a while a go. I still occasionally pirate movies but normally they're ones that'd cost me all of £3 from Amazon anyway so I don't feel QUITE as guilty.

My most commonly torrented item is tv shows that never get shown in the UK.
All I want is for everyone to go to hell...
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willT08
Banned
Join date: Jul 2009
2,923 IQ
#20
I've torrented more music production than you could shake a stick at. Must be getting on for $50,000 worth of stuff just for production. Wouldn't be on my Uni course studying for the career I want to have if I didn't.
treborillusion
UG Fanatic
Join date: May 2009
3,126 IQ
#21
I'm 26... I was on Napster when I was 12.

Justify free music.... Hmmmm... That's a tough one.

Things were going great for Napster way back back in day; Before Metallica got involved.
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AmalgamOfMeat
Naw
Join date: Jan 2012
80 IQ
#22
I very rarely do it, and I never download anything I would have bought otherwise, because I'm a cheapskate. It's wrong, but not really in any meaningful way.
treborillusion
UG Fanatic
Join date: May 2009
3,126 IQ
#23
I only download off YouTube bootlegs of live shows and stuff they don't release here, like that Slash's Snakepit second Album, Ain't Life Grand -- It came out, I was young, I never bought it, then for some reason, I can't buy it in England anymore -- Tried to buy it from America online this one time in college and the freaking sale fell through due to publishing or some b/s.
I download the HELL out of that album.
Quote by laid-to-waste
look nigga, if you're chillin with 5 bros and 2 hos, you're gonna wanna pay attention to all of em equally. not moon over the hos forever and laugh at every shitty thing they say and just stare at them all night, like some of my mates do.
treborillusion
UG Fanatic
Join date: May 2009
3,126 IQ
#24
Quote by treborillusion
I only download off YouTube bootlegs of live shows and stuff they don't release here, like that Slash's Snakepit second Album, Ain't Life Grand -- It came out, I was young, I never bought it, then for some reason, I can't buy it in England anymore -- Tried to buy it from America online this one time in college and the freaking sale fell through due to publishing or some b/s.
I download the HELL out of that album.

Moral of the story; If you won't sell it to me, I'm still going to have it.
Quote by laid-to-waste
look nigga, if you're chillin with 5 bros and 2 hos, you're gonna wanna pay attention to all of em equally. not moon over the hos forever and laugh at every shitty thing they say and just stare at them all night, like some of my mates do.
Ian_the_fox
Banned
Join date: Feb 2011
2,990 IQ
#25
Quote by ErikLensherr
Well, my iPod would cost thousands of dollars to fill with music purchased legally, and there's no way I'd be spending that much money I don't have on music, regardless of whether or not there were a free alternative.
"I don't have the money to buy something I don't even need, therefore I'm just going to steal it."

Yeah, great argument there.
opc100
UG's Rex
Join date: Sep 2007
2,149 IQ
#26
Quote by Ian_the_fox
"I don't have the money to buy something I don't even need, therefore I'm just going to steal it."

Yeah, great argument there.

This is the argument that pisses me off the most.

I torrent most of my music, but I do it safe in the knowledge that it's wrong. Free stuff is better than not free stuff though and, because I can't see any of the adverse effects of committing this crime, I don't feel guilty. People should just admit this
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treborillusion
UG Fanatic
Join date: May 2009
3,126 IQ
#27
I pay Spotify to stream the music they've got.

And I have my illegal downloads here, in various different forms... Old hard drives/mp3 players, burnt cds/Xboxs ect... I don't download anymore. I stream.

And also, I'm on PRS and I do tell them about covers so for example, if something I made makes £5.00 one day, they get the money, not me.
Quote by laid-to-waste
look nigga, if you're chillin with 5 bros and 2 hos, you're gonna wanna pay attention to all of em equally. not moon over the hos forever and laugh at every shitty thing they say and just stare at them all night, like some of my mates do.
Last edited by treborillusion at Jan 18, 2013,
spitonastranger
Kinski Assassin
Join date: May 2009
554 IQ
#28
Quote by Ian_the_fox
"I don't have the money to buy something I don't even need, therefore I'm just going to steal it."

Yeah, great argument there.

Wow that's totally the crux of that argument dumbass.

His 'stealing' isn't hurting anyone in and of itself, it would only hurt the artist if he was downloading it instead of buying it which he's just said is not the case.
pugachev
Registered User
Join date: Dec 2007
514 IQ
#29
My justification is 99% of the stuff I illegally download wouldn't have been bought in the first place. That said, I haven't torrented anything in a long while. When it comes to movies and music I prefer a physical copy with all the artwork and such for my collection. Also, I don't watch anything less than bluray quality unless it can't be found in bluray.
captainsnazz
~
Join date: Jul 2010
578 IQ
#30
Quote by willT08
I've torrented more music production than you could shake a stick at. Must be getting on for $50,000 worth of stuff just for production. Wouldn't be on my Uni course studying for the career I want to have if I didn't.

This is a pretty good point actually. Similarly, I would never have ended up on my course if I hadn't pirated Logic Pro and all the other software I used illegally until recently. I simply could never have afforded it. I actually still haven't bought Logic, but I have bought plenty of other things and when version 10 comes out I will.
I almost never pirate music nowadays, simply because I have Spotify premium, and it's so rare that I come across something that I want that isn't on there that I can afford to buy it all. I'm quite a fan of the kickstarter/indiegogo thing, e.g. Protest the Hero's plan for funding their latest album.

As for the justification that it isn't stealing.. Let's put it like this instead: sure, you're just duplicating the software or music itself, and that wouldn't be stealing if it wasn't for the nature of licensing. It's easier to think about if you imagine there being a pile of infinite licenses, and by duplicating the software and getting it to work without paying for it you are stealing one of those licenses, because it's the creator's decision who they give those licenses to.
cptcomet
Band
Join date: Feb 2008
648 IQ
#31
You can't justify it.

But I buy most music second hand so the artist doesn't see the money that way either.
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willT08
Banned
Join date: Jul 2009
2,923 IQ
#32
Quote by captainsnazz
This is a pretty good point actually.

It's not a point I'm using to try and justify myself, it's just an observation. I'm not entitled to be a music teacher, or go to Uni at all, but I wouldn't have been able to do it without torrenting.

Not that it justifies torrenting as a whole, but it can give working-class kids the opportunity to get involved with all kinds of Media based careers which they otherwise wouldn't be able to
opc100
UG's Rex
Join date: Sep 2007
2,149 IQ
#33
Quote by captainsnazz

As for the justification that it isn't stealing.. Let's put it like this instead: sure, you're just duplicating the software or music itself, and that wouldn't be stealing if it wasn't for the nature of licensing. It's easier to think about if you imagine there being a pile of infinite licenses, and by duplicating the software and getting it to work without paying for it you are stealing one of those licenses, because it's the creator's decision who they give those licenses to.

Or you could just put it like this; it's theft, deal with it.
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ErikLensherr
MGTOW
Join date: Jul 2011
1,630 IQ
#34
Quote by Ian_the_fox
"I don't have the money to buy something I don't even need, therefore I'm just going to steal it."

Yeah, great argument there.

The argument is it ain't wrong if it ain't hurting anybody, which it ain't cuz I ain't buying that shit anyway.
Quote by EpiExplorer
I swear this guy in particular writes for the telegraph or some shit.

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Mr.-Bungle
Mr. Bungle
Join date: Jun 2008
242 IQ
#35
Cost average here:
CD - $10 - $30.
DVD/BR - $40
Game - $100-120
Cinema ticket - $18 - $26.
Concert ticket - $120>

The price of downloading all that for free and more?

Priceless.
willT08
Banned
Join date: Jul 2009
2,923 IQ
#36
Quote by Mr.-Bungle
Cost average here:
CD - $10 - $30.
DVD/BR - $40
Game - $100-120
Cinema ticket - $18 - $26.
Concert ticket - $120>

The price of downloading all that for free and more?

Priceless.

What the hell Australia why is everything so expensive? A game should cost no more than 45 currencies, a Cinema ticket no more than 12 and jesus, a gig should only be like 20 unless it's a stadium show of some massive band. I mean, I've been to Wembley Arena for £25 for feck sake.
WCPhils
UnBanned
Join date: Sep 2010
731 IQ
#37
Quote by Mr.-Bungle
Cost average here:
CD - $10 - $30.
DVD/BR - $40
Game - $100-120
Cinema ticket - $18 - $26.
Concert ticket - $120>

The price of downloading all that for free and more?

Priceless.

wtf? That's double of what everything would cost here
___

Quote by The_Blode
she was saying things like... do you want to netflix and chill but just the chill part...too bad she'll never know that I only like the Netflix part...
stratkat
IWTCIRD
Join date: Nov 2005
3,672 IQ
#38
I steal programs to make music, then people steal my music.

It's a trickle down process.

I'll pay for software when it's a reasonable investment, I'm only making maybe 50 bucks a month, and half of that is from streaming on rhapsody and spotify.

Also the majority of things that are pirated, and things that wouldn't have been paid for either way, so the company or whoever isn't losing any profit.
Last edited by stratkat at Jan 18, 2013,
Cianyx
UG Nerd
Join date: Dec 2008
1,216 IQ
#39
A gig here doesn't cost $120. Like not even close. Movie tickets are about 18 bucks for an adult, but students typically pay significantly less. And games do not cost $100-$120. I don't even know what sort of games you are buying.
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Ian_the_fox
Banned
Join date: Feb 2011
2,990 IQ
#40
Quote by ErikLensherr
The argument is it ain't wrong if it ain't hurting anybody, which it ain't cuz I ain't buying that shit anyway.
You hurt the [honest, paying] consumer.

The whole reason music and software are at the high prices they're sold at is to make up for the amount they lose from people like you who chose pirate everything.


Regardless of what's right or wrong, music on an iPod is inferior to hearing it on vinyl.