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#81
Quote by due 07
justifying charging for digital files is much more difficult.


Being paid for your work is difficult to justify?

Seems legit.
Quote by GLP_Arclite
Pooping is well good though, to be fair.


I've got a handle on the fiction.

I'm losing my grip, 'cos I'm losing my fingers.
#82
Quote by willT08
No it doesn't.

I study Music Technology and had an exam on Digital Audio 2 days ago. You don't need to link me to stuff. Also, that page is laughable and I shouldn't even have to point out why. That graph is an absolute joke and I notice they don't reference anything.

If you'd like me start pulling excerpts from Roads (1994) and Watkinson (1996) I can.
Please do, I'm interested in hearing more about it.
#83
Oh my god this thread is full of dumb shit. From self-righteousness to elitism about freaking headphones to sensationalist bullshit about how all the industries are dying of AIDS.

I listen to all my music using 4 year old iPod earphones (the right one isn't as loud as the left, so I think they're broken), I torrent all my music, films, TV shows, software, books and games and I own two albums and three DVDs, all of them gifts. I believe I've had an incredibly fulfilling life - I assume even more so than a lot of users in here - and I think I'm a good human being, regardless of all the shit anyone here's mentioned like how big their dicks are because of their vinyl collection.


But remember that what I say next comes from someone who practically lives on the internet: get your heads out your asses.
#84
Quote by due 07
i assume this post is a joke, but the funny thing about this is that all the anti-filesharing folks no doubt watch illegal videos on youtube, which is literally no different from downloading an album from mediafire as far as ip laws go.


It's a "joke" in the sense that the end product (you having an "illegal" video in your PC) is exactly the same but you can "justify" it as much as you want, since hey you are using a "legal" site and following their rules so you aren't doing anything "wrong" directly.

This whole talk isn't as simple as "yo get music without paying you bad" and there is a lot of ethical and legal shit to wade through that depends on each context and the like.


Also like someone should try creating a theory of ethics and just define what the hell is legal or not legal about pirating once and for all
Nobody even seems to be trying, either the pirating guys half-assedly "justify" it and keep pirating, and the anti-pirating guys just say "it's bad!" and keep suing.
Or rather, the guys that benefit from pirating "justify" it and use it, and the guys that are harmed by pirating say "it's bad!" and keep suing.

It's like if this was ancient prehistoric times or something, because that justification above is like the simplest of all in terms of morality.
#85
Quote by Ian_the_fox
Yes. You don't know what it's like to be at a Jethro Tull concert in your bedroom.


If you're hooking it up via a cheap Walmart 1/8" to RCA cable then the difference is enormous. Even when I use my M-Audio Fast Track (which I don't use for recording anymore) to hook it up, CD's still sound superior.

Try a decent stereo, not one that says "RCA" on the front. Like, a real, high quality stereo, if you even have access to one (which you probably don't, lol).

Man, you're mentally retarded, aren't you?




I've used my friends tube rig to listen to music (The Disintegration Loops) and honestly, it wasn't my favorite. I prefer the soundstage of my cans.
Also, cable doesn't make a difference as long as it has a solid connection. You do know this, right?
#86
Quote by metacarpi
Being paid for your work is difficult to justify?

Seems legit.

in this case it is. just because you put work into something doesn't mean it's easily justifiable to charge people for it. i can bottle up air and sell it to people (but they don't get the bottle--just the air), and most people would think that's dumb. but omg i put work into the bottled air!

no but really, not counting the fixed costs of duplicating files, there's an infinite supply so they're p valueless.
#87
Quote by due 07
in this case it is. just because you put work into something doesn't mean it's easily justifiable to charge people for it. i can bottle up air and sell it to people (but they don't get the bottle--just the air), and most people would think that's dumb. but omg i put work into the bottled air!

no but really, not counting the fixed costs of duplicating files, there's an infinite supply so they're p valueless.


They would think it's dumb, and not buy it. If you don't want to pay what's being asked, you don't pay it.

Granted, I don't think bands have to charge for their downloads, but claiming that they have no right to charge for the product that they create is utter bollocks as far as I'm concerned.
Quote by GLP_Arclite
Pooping is well good though, to be fair.


I've got a handle on the fiction.

I'm losing my grip, 'cos I'm losing my fingers.
#88
Quote by anvil is god

Also, cable doesn't make a difference as long as it has a solid connection. You do know this, right?

Cables are designed to have as little affect on the signal passing through it as possible. But noise can be an issue if the signal passing through the cable is being amplified.
Quote by TheSennaj
And well yes, I'll enjoy the carpal tunnel and tendonitis, because trying to get one is clearly smarter than any word you have spoken thus far.
#89
There isn't a way to justify pirating, but I still do it. #yolo
...Stapling helium to penguins since 1949.
#90
Wait till they come after OPs friend
Quote by iantheman
I laughed at someone for breaking his g-string, and got sigged


Quote by Veil Of Osiris

You just made me spit out my Kool-Aid all over my keyboard.


sorry
#91
I've torrented gigs and gigs worth of music. Got a handful of music production/creation programs (Guitar Pro, Sibelius, Cubase, etc.) and some movies and TV shows. I've stopped recently, and I don't do it as often anymore. I try to buy the album if at all possible (I like my collection).

Do I try and justify it? No. You can't really, especially not with all the stories from "underground" artists - like Andy McKee - losing a lot of money from it. Money they use to live and make more music.
#92
I do it because it's my way of protesting the way music industry corporations have been slowly causing bands salaries to go lower and lower while the industry's pay gets higher and higher. I don't buy music because most of the profits go to the labels. If I want to support a band directly I go to a concert and buy their merch.
Also I'm broke.


P.S. I also do it if I want a certain piece of music that would cost too much time and/or money to acquire and is impossible to find. Example: Death's un-remastered albums
Last edited by tffan92 at Jan 18, 2013,
#95
Quote by tffan92
I do it because it's my way of protesting the way music industry corporations have been slowly causing bands salaries to go lower and lower while the industry's pay gets higher and higher. I don't buy music because most of the profits go to the labels. If I want to support a band directly I go to a concert and buy their merch.
Also I'm broke.


P.S. I also do it if I want a certain piece of music that would cost too much time and/or money to acquire and is impossible to find. Example: Death's un-remastered albums


> hates the fact bands (rightly) only get a cut of their music's earnings.
> denies the band any money by pirating their stuff instead.

Retarded logic is retarded.
...Stapling helium to penguins since 1949.
#97
Quote by Todd Hart
> hates the fact bands (rightly) only get a cut of their music's earnings.
> denies the band any money by pirating their stuff instead.

Retarded logic is retarded.


I take it that justification is like the "We don't negotiate with terrorists" one.

Like, the terrorists have hostages captive, and you don't want the hostages hurt. However you don't want the terrorists to have what they want either. Either you give the terrorists what they want, and be given the hostages alive, or you don't give the terrorists what they want and the hostages are hurt

So here the terrorists are the labels and the hostages the artists.....or something like that.

At least that's how I assume he's thinking (if he's not bullshitting of course)
#98
Quote by gonzaw
I take it that justification is like the "We don't negotiate with terrorists" one.

Like, the terrorists have hostages captive, and you don't want the hostages hurt. However you don't want the terrorists to have what they want either. Either you give the terrorists what they want, and be given the hostages alive, or you don't give the terrorists what they want and the hostages are hurt

So here the terrorists are the labels and the hostages the artists.....or something like that.

At least that's how I assume he's thinking (if he's not bullshitting of course)


No, because the labels aren't going to hurt the bands, they're going to pay them. The fact that people think that bands deserve a large amount, hell even a majority cut for the songs released just shows that they know nothing about the production of music.
...Stapling helium to penguins since 1949.
#99
I've downloaded quite a bit of music, but I've cut down a lot of what I don't listen to and deleted a lot of it. I'm also trying to buy actual albums whenever I can, not because it makes me feel justified, but because I love CD's.

Now, for people that don't buy music, they will find another way to listen to the music and don't care about the sound quality. An example of this would be my mom and sister; They both have decent phones and instead of downloading, because they consider it to complicated, they go to youtube on their phones and listen to entire albums that way because people uploaded it to it.

Is any of this right? It's costing the people that made the albums and put time, work, and effort into them money, so no, it isn't right. To change this, however, would take so much work that it would change a huge portion of the internet.
#100
The "I wouldn't have bought it anyway, so it's fine" argument is a huge, steaming load of horseshit. CD and MP3 sales are down across the board. Are you telling me that people just don't listen to music as much anymore?


I'll take a burned CD from a friend if they offer, but I never go out of my way to pirate anything. I believe that if the artist wanted you to have it for free, they would offer it for free. It's just human decency to provide them with some compensation for giving something you can enjoy for the rest of your life as many times as you want.
Check out my band Disturbed
#101
Quote by Todd Hart
No, because the labels aren't going to hurt the bands, they're going to pay them. The fact that people think that bands deserve a large amount, hell even a majority cut for the songs released just shows that they know nothing about the production of music.


In his mind "hurt them" would be "pay them less".
And "what the terrorists want" would be "make the labels get more money".

It may be ignorant of how the production of music works, but at least it's not "retarded logic", since if you don't pay nobody, the "labels" do go down, which I assume is what he wants (even if the artists get ****ed as well I suppose)
#102
So much BS in this thread. What it essentially boils down to is very common human nature (I say very common as its certainly not universal): the ability to do something a little bit wrong, for personal gain, with a slim to no chance of it ever having any real consequence to your life/status/ego/whatever.

Honestly, if you could steal a £5 note / $10 bill every day from a giant, usually anonymous entity, and nobody else was that shocked if you told them (maybe even impressed at your actions) and there was like a one in a million chance of you getting wrapped over it, you would do it.

No, really, you would.
#103
Quote by gonzaw
In his mind "hurt them" would be "pay them less".
And "what the terrorists want" would be "make the labels get more money".

It may be ignorant of how the production of music works, but at least it's not "retarded logic", since if you don't pay nobody, the "labels" do go down, which I assume is what he wants (even if the artists get ****ed as well I suppose)


Which is retarded logic. It's identical to saying 'I support Mercedes, but I don't want my money to go towards advertisers and not engineers, so I stole a Mercedes'. Or 'I support my grandma getting given a pension, but I don't support the fact that she has to pay an extortionate amount for heating, so I steal her pension'. Yes, you're sticking it to the man and all that crap, but you also killed your grandma.
...Stapling helium to penguins since 1949.
#104
Quote by StewieSwan
The "I wouldn't have bought it anyway, so it's fine" argument is a huge, steaming load of horseshit. CD and MP3 sales are down across the board. Are you telling me that people just don't listen to music as much anymore?

I don't know about that. I don't pirate music at all and haven't for years, but I also don't buy CDs or MP3s anymore either.
I can now access pretty much any song i could possibly want to listen to through YouTube, Grooveshark, Spotify etc. I listen to more music than ever, but I neither buy nor steal it.
"Why should we subsidise intellectual curiosity?"
-Ronald Reagan

"Knowledge is in every country the surest basis of public happiness."
-George Washington
#105
Quote by Wesbanez
So much BS in this thread. What it essentially boils down to is very common human nature (I say very common as its certainly not universal): the ability to do something a little bit wrong, for personal gain, with a slim to no chance of it ever having any real consequence to your life/status/ego/whatever.

Honestly, if you could steal a £5 note / $10 bill every day from a giant, usually anonymous entity, and nobody else was that shocked if you told them (maybe even impressed at your actions) and there was like a one in a million chance of you getting wrapped over it, you would do it.

No, really, you would.

I wouldn't steal from a giant mate
hello
#106
Quote by Todd Hart
Which is retarded logic. It's identical to saying 'I support Mercedes, but I don't want my money to go towards advertisers and not engineers, so I stole a Mercedes'. Or 'I support my grandma getting given a pension, but I don't support the fact that she has to pay an extortionate amount for heating, so I steal her pension'. Yes, you're sticking it to the man and all that crap, but you also killed your grandma.


It does what he wanted though doesn't it? >_>

If you don't give a shit about your grandma but you do about pensions for old people, then you could do that. If lots of grandma's die then maybe the pension guys listen to you and change the way they handle pensions.

Anyways if the guy wanted to start a revolution or something it would be an "alright" justification I guess.
I doubt he will though
#108
Quote by captaincrunk
you wouldn't do it if you honestly believed it was wrong


lern2cognitivedissonance
...Stapling helium to penguins since 1949.
#109
Quote by Ur all $h1t
I don't know about that. I don't pirate music at all and haven't for years, but I also don't buy CDs or MP3s anymore either.
I can now access pretty much any song i could possibly want to listen to through YouTube, Grooveshark, Spotify etc. I listen to more music than ever, but I neither buy nor steal it.

This is what i do. If in the unlikely event that the guy who put up the video or MP3 gets done for it, it's not my problem. All i've lost is the ability to get access to the file.
Quote by TheSennaj
And well yes, I'll enjoy the carpal tunnel and tendonitis, because trying to get one is clearly smarter than any word you have spoken thus far.
#110
I pirate stuff and I know it's not the best thing to do. Music has become very expensive. I usually pirate music, listen to it, then buy the next album if I enjoyed it. I have thousands of songs but I still have probably thousands of dollars in purchased music. I have pirated games because I keep losing the discs. Once Steam became big I rarely pirated games because I could get them cheaply without discs. I think pirating has it's moral downfalls but it isn't stealing. I know people who steal from Walmart because it's a shitty corporation but that's still wrong. Pirating denies a company sales but is not stealing.
Quote by Fat Lard
Why would you spend tens of thousands of dollars to learn about a language you already speak? It was over before it even started dude

Quote by captainsnazz
brot pls
#111
How do I justify being a musician... and a pirate?

I don't. I'm a bad man who doesn't waste time wondering what could've been when I am what could've been and what could not have been. I live on both sides of the fence. My grass is always green.
My God, it's full of stars!
Last edited by Dreadnought at Jan 18, 2013,
#112
Quote by BladeSlinger
I pirate stuff and I know it's not the best thing to do. Music has become very expensive.



Music is cheaper than ever.
Check out my band Disturbed
#113
Quote by StewieSwan
Music is cheaper than ever.

It's still several thousands of pounds more than what i can afford, given how many songs i listen to.
Quote by TheSennaj
And well yes, I'll enjoy the carpal tunnel and tendonitis, because trying to get one is clearly smarter than any word you have spoken thus far.
#114
if i want something i buy it

if i'm torrenting something i wouldn't buy otherwise, i have no moral guilt, since i'm not effecting the sales or physically taking something from someone else
#115
The fact that the music industry isn't trying to adapt doesn't really make ending piracy any harder.

Like, some decades ago, every album had 1 or 2 "hits" that were catchy and they'd put on the radio. This would make you buy the album, which then they filled with filler or less important/catchy/etc songs. However if you wanted to listen to the "hit" anywhere you wanted, you needed to buy the album, and it came with the other "stuff" you wouldn't really care about, but at least justified the price you paid for the whole album

Now you hear the hit, and you download the hit...and that's it, you barely even hear about the other "stuff" from the albums.

This "album has 1-2 hits and is filled with average stuff" scheme worked a few years ago but not anymore.

If there was more incentive to get an album instead of download individual songs, like for instance have each song be same "caliber", and include meaningful stuff people want to have (this is crucial, very few people would find an interview with someone in the bought album "worth buying") in the bought album itself, then maybe people would pirate less and buy the album more (whether buy a digital one or a physical one)

At least that's how I feel when I pirate some music. I have 0 interest in buying Lady Gaga's album, but I would pirate one of her "popular songs" just to have in my PC in case my neice comes over (yep, no other reason at all >_> )
#116
Quote by StewieSwan
Music is cheaper than ever.

That's why my pirating has gone down a lot. My peak was when CD's were hitting fifteen and sixteen dollars. Now you get an albums for a dollar per song which is great. Now to remember my iTunes account login info.

I can't justify my pirating and I'm ok with that.
Quote by Fat Lard
Why would you spend tens of thousands of dollars to learn about a language you already speak? It was over before it even started dude

Quote by captainsnazz
brot pls
#117
I think I would buy stuff instead of pirating if there was an easier way to "stuff" my money in the internet >_>

I can't have credit cards since I don't have a job, and I can barely get an international debit card because I don't have any receipt to my name.
I've been trying to get an international card for like 2 weeks, hopefully I can get it next week.

Someone should invent a money scanner >_>
#118
Justify it? It's free, idgaf. A lot of the music I listen to is pretty hard to find in stores, anyway.
#119
Quote by captaincrunk
you wouldn't do it if you honestly believed it was wrong


I fundamentally disagree. Are you trying to say nobody has ever done something despite knowing it was wrong?
#120
Quote by due 07
in this case it is. just because you put work into something doesn't mean it's easily justifiable to charge people for it. i can bottle up air and sell it to people (but they don't get the bottle--just the air), and most people would think that's dumb. but omg i put work into the bottled air!

no but really, not counting the fixed costs of duplicating files, there's an infinite supply so they're p valueless.

That was the worst analogy I've ever seen in the history of UG, and I've made some pretty bad ones myself.

I have only pirated a couple of things, and I know it's wrong. There is no "justification." I just don't want to spend money on something I can get much more conveniently for free.