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#81
Quote by theogonia777
You're just assuming that everyone else worships whatever trendy in your little bubble of what's popular in the world of generic cookie-cutter, musically neutral, lowest common denominator electronic dance music.

#82
Quote by theogonia777
Because the bass is a valuable part of the overall harmony
It's still part of the harmony even when you roll off the high end
and important for keeping a consistent rhythm
Mixing doesn't effect the timing .
And what if I want a sweet bass fill?
You still hear the notes it's playing
Also not everyone goes to cheesy clubs to listen to the same type of cheesy electronic music that they play in cheesy mall stores that sell cheesy European hats or whatever cheesy junk is fashionable among cheesy fashion hipsters.


And don't give me any of that "industry standard" shit (which, where are you getting that from anyway).
From studying popular music production
You're just assuming that everyone else worships whatever trendy in your little bubble of what's popular in the world of generic cookie-cutter, musically neutral, lowest common denominator electronic dance music.



This was just an angry way to type "Because I prefer it". Why is everyone so angry tonight?
#83
Quote by willT08
It's still part of the harmony even when you roll off the high end

and you can still hear it when you roll off the high end
#84
i'm still confused as to what "felt" even means in this context. someone tell me.
#85
Quote by due 07
i'm still confused as to what "felt" even means in this context. someone tell me.

felt is literal.

when bass is mixed properly, it fills in the whole mix and you can feel it.

when you mix in high end frequencies on the bass, it can conflict with the guitars that usually take up those frequencies
Last edited by Unourrit01 at Jan 26, 2013,
#86
Quote by willT08
It's still part of the harmony even when you roll off the high end Mixing doesn't effect the timing . You still hear the notes it's playing

From studying popular music production


This was just an angry way to type "Because I prefer it". Why is everyone so angry tonight?


You're just making stuff up, aren't you? Because it sounds like you have no idea what you're talking about. Oops, I'm sorry. It feels like you have no idea what you're talking about.
There's no such thing; there never was. Where I am going you cannot follow me now.
#87
Quote by Unourrit01
felt is literal.

when bass is mixed properly, it fills in the whole mix and you can feel it.

when you mix in high end frequencies on the bass, it can conflict with the guitars that usually take up those frequencies

well like i said, all hearing is is feeling, so yah~
Quote by theogonia777
You're just making stuff up, aren't you? Because it sounds like you have no idea what you're talking about. Oops, I'm sorry. It feels like you have no idea what you're talking about.

heh
#88
Quote by OddOneOut
Yup. Coheed & Cambria's Year of the Black Rainbow. Everything is fuzzy as **** .

Are you and I even listening to the same album?...

Yes, it's more distorted than say, "Good Apollo IV". But...fuzzy isn't what I'd describe that as. Still, if you prefer less heavy rock, you may not like it.

@will:
Look, man, I'm sure you know your shit. You're studying music production and all that. However, a lot of rock and heavy metal sounds a hell of a lot better if you don't bury the bass in the mix. So, I'm gonna have to agree with Kristen (Theo) on this.

I could see where pop or light rock, you wouldn't want the bass in the mix. But really...even then, most of those songs could be better served by just EQ'ing the bass well and then putting it at a level with all the other instruments.
#90
Can't stand Dream Theater's drums, I refuse to listen to them mostly because of that. I don't know what it is about them but they sound awful.
sunbather is shit
#91
Breaking All Illusions by Dream Theater has a horrible mix. Most of A Dramatic Turn of Events is poorly mixed infact. The drums are too quiet, there aren't enough highs/mid-highs, and the instruments don't sound focused or have much in the way of clarity
#92
Quote by crazysam23_Atax
Are you and I even listening to the same album?...

Yes, it's more distorted than say, "Good Apollo IV". But...fuzzy isn't what I'd describe that as. Still, if you prefer less heavy rock, you may not like it.

I definitely listen to heavier rock than Co&Ca. But yeah we'll just have to disagree on this. I think all the guitars sound too distorted and not in a good way. There's no punch to the sound at all. I find it all pretty flat sounding. Too much like NIN, which considering the producer makes sense. I disliked it enough that I decided not to buy it and don't have it on my ipod.
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#93
Quote by NothingRocks
Animals as Leaders are the perfect example of a band with great musical potential, but god awful mixing. I still don't understand how Tosin got his guitar to sound so bad. The distorted tones are like nails on a chalkboard run through a terrible digital amp.
Tosin's sound is run through a digital amp...
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#96
I don't think it necessarily matters if the bass is heard or felt, as long as you can sense it. People joked when Paul Gray of Slipknot died because it's hard to hear the bass in Slipknot songs, but if you listen you can still tell it's there, it's just hard to hear over the detuned guitars and everything else. If the bass wasn't there or mixed out, you would definitely know it (case in point, AJFA).

So not being able to hear the bass with definition isn't necessary. However, I still enjoy hearing the bass rather clearly, especially if the bassist is throwing down some snazzy lines.
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#97
Quote by willT08
Ew no.

Bass is there to be felt, not heard.


What a shit attitude to bass tone. I'd honestly like to hear one professional mix where the bass sounds good and is "felt not heard".
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#98
I didn't like the lack of bass in AJFA, though I know it's there, and I believe that Death Magnetic would have been better off with a producer who refrains from tapping the sound limit ever so often, so yeah, I guess sometimes, the mixing ticks me off.
#99
Depends on how bad. Most bands who have bad quality mixing or have entirely different opinions than I on what a proper mix sounds like don't play music I enjoy anyway.

I think I would rather listen to lo-fi than overproduced though, and I consider over polishing to be a poor mix.
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#100
Kanye's most recent solo album wasn't mixed well.
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#101
Mixing not really but instrument tone can. I hate cynics tones. They're aweful. I wish they could go back and rerecord their albums on btbams setup. I don't like born of osiriss new album either cuz of it.
#102
Quote by OddOneOut
Yup. Coheed & Cambria's Year of the Black Rainbow. Everything is fuzzy as **** .


I totally forgot about that album. That's probably the only album where the mix has made me refuse to listen to it. I tried getting into it, and while the music itself is alright, the guitar tone just sounded horrid and the general vibe seemed very compressed.

I don't care much for CC past the first Good Apollo album, mostly because you can tell they were going for more generic songwriting on Good Apollo 2.
#103
Quote by oneblackened
There's a reason for the Tesseract kick sounding awful on the album. That's the Superior Drummer Avatar kick drum. Really not a very good sounding kick.

True times 1000.
****ing avatar kicks are awful.
Although i've been able to do alright with them
That said, even for the avatar kit, the kick was still horrendous in that mix...

edit: i totally agree with you guys on YOTBR. I like the album, but damn is it hard to listen to.
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#104
Quote by oneblackened
There's a reason for the Tesseract kick sounding awful on the album. That's the Superior Drummer Avatar kick drum. Really not a very good sounding kick.
I wouldn't say that was the reason. I'm barely experienced with music production and I've managed to make the Avatar kick sound better and more pronounced than on Tessaract's One.

Theirs just had very poor equalization. Way too much mud and thump.
#105
Quote by OddOneOut
I definitely listen to heavier rock than Co&Ca. But yeah we'll just have to disagree on this.

Fine with me.

@Ian:
Um...somehow I've a feeling you're bullshitting...
#106
Quote by MDoggDX316
Kanye's most recent solo album wasn't mixed well.

it was mixed fine really; kind of a shitty mastering job but if you listen with cheap speaker or ipod headphones (like me) you don't notice.
#107
Quote by crazysam23_Atax
Fine with me.

@Ian:
Um...somehow I've a feeling you're bullshitting...
When I get the chance I'll export an example and you can judge for yourself.
#108
Not going to re-dredge up the argument, but...

If I can't feel the bass pumping me in my gut, then it's not mixed properly.

When bass is mixed properly, you should be able to feel it and hear it. It's not that difficult to make the bass kick in the ears and be heard in the mix. And that's all I'm saying on that topic.
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#109
Quote by Ian_the_fox
When I get the chance I'll export an example and you can judge for yourself.

Or you could just stop, because you're wrong.
#110
I should be able to hear individual bass notes. Even if there are 6 layers on top of the bass the bass should still be heard. I love that I can always hear Dan briggs. I havent listened to much coheed but everyone here seems to have an opinion on them. All I know is I wish they weren't playing with btbam Feb 21st. Id rather have Devin townsend aal contortionist cynic anyone else...
#113
Quote by jrcsgtpeppers
Is that music? O.O

I don't understand the difference between felt bass and heard bass.



I think people are trying to describe 'heard bass' as simply the picking noise + transient + the actual bass tone. 'Felt bass' is more the bass frequencies that you can hear, that are blended into the mix to create a complex harmonization, and there's little emphasis on the transient sounds. It sort of messes around good mixes, but at the end its a method that works. Examples of heard bass:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z9wZDd_GgPs

(this is actually one of the better produced/mixed death metal albums)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5oBGixxuu2E


And felt bass:

In this example, the bass is mixed to blend with the guitars, since they essentially play the same riffs, adds some amazing chunk to the guitars, but makes the guitars the main focus, and this band loves the guitars. You can hear small sections where the bass transient exists, like the solo, but overall, the effect is 'wall of sound'-ish.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_aR7ZP9j2u0

Similar story with this song, but the aim is to maximize the tightness of the rhythm, as the bass plays essentially the same riffs as the guitar. You can hear the frequencies, but not the actually bass transient.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0tVGG0agDV4
o()o

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#115
I still don't understand. The only way I can imagine it is if you made a bass track using the soft sine wave and turned it up so it took up space and sound but you can't tell when the note it played. It's timeless but its a note none the less. Where as if you use a saw wave its a little crnchier and you can hear the initial attack. Like going from your bridge trebley pickup to the warmer neck pickup. It would really depe.d on the genre you're making. Funk needs that initial percussion sound. Metal depends, jazzier oriented prog metal likes to hear the bass as if it was acoustic, where as more grungy fuzzy metal doesn't. Jazz likes the percussion sound. Pop doesn't need it. Rock can go either way. Electronic doesnt at all.

Edit lol it sounded like a bunch of punk kids trying to write music that's cooler than everyone else. I'm definitely not a fan of punk by any means. The closest thing to punk I like is dillinger escape ppan with that one dick singer of faith no more, and maybe rhcp.
Last edited by jrcsgtpeppers at Jan 27, 2013,
#116
Quote by jrcsgtpeppers
Edit lol it sounded like a bunch of punk kids trying to write music that's cooler than everyone else. I'm definitely not a fan of punk by any means. The closest thing to punk I like is dillinger escape ppan with that one dick singer of faith no more, and maybe rhcp.

it's like awesome melodies and awesome performance and awesome lyrics (well not "summertime" but most songs by crimpshrine have rad lyrics).

i don't think they were trying to be cooler than anyone. diy punx isn't--nor has it ever--been 'cool', 'cuz the majority of people are always saying goofy things like "that's music? 0.0"
#117
It's just my opinion bro. I would never write that kind of music. I can only imagine a group of neglected high schoolers trying to get back at society by writing that style of music. I don't like his vocals at all either. They were aweful, he needs some serious singing lessons. But i also dont like tool. Sounded a bit like tooto me. l
#118
Quote by jrcsgtpeppers
It's just my opinion bro. I would never write that kind of music. I can only imagine a group of neglected high schoolers trying to get back at society by writing that style of music. I don't like his vocals at all either. They were aweful, he needs some serious singing lessons.

i know it's just yr opinion ftr.

But i also dont like tool. Sounded a bit like tooto me. l

what even. no. what.
#119
jrcsgtpeppers, you always make a lot of typographical errors. Do you only visit this forum when you are intoxicated or are you just a very unconscientious typist?