Airfish
Likes them new toyz... ;)
Join date: Jan 2013
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#1
Hey there.

Anybody knows what is the sensitivity (dB/1W/1m) of the custom made Blackbird 50 speaker that Blackstar puts in the new HT5-R combo an in the HT-112 cab?

I am thinking about buying the HT5-R Head with either the HT-112 or HTV-112 cab. What could I possibly get in terms of sensitivity, if I changed the stock speaker for a Celestion V30?

I already know for the HTV - its stock speaker is a Celestion Seventy80 with 98 dB sensitivity, so there I would get +2dB.

And I would also need to get the sensitivity figure of the Blackbird 50 - what possible plus could the V30 bring in that case?

Tried to find a data sheet of the Blackbird 50 speaker, but no success yet....

Anybody can help?

Thanx in advance!
Dave_Mc
Chirp and Swirl
Join date: Mar 2005
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#2
have you emailed them?
Quote by classicrocker01
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Airfish
Likes them new toyz... ;)
Join date: Jan 2013
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#3
Quote by Dave_Mc
have you emailed them?


Tried to, but no answer yet....

BTW what´s the funny sh*t about this? Is that one single stupid number I need to know some sort of strictly guarded secret? Or what?
Dave_Mc
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Join date: Mar 2005
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#4


i dunno. I wouldn't say (based on what i've heard, i haven't emailed them myself) BS has the best rep for being forthcoming with info... but i can't see that a speaker's efficiency is a closely-guarded trade secret, as you said.
Quote by classicrocker01
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Airfish
Likes them new toyz... ;)
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#5
Well, they dont know me yet.... sure as hell they won´t get rid of me till I get an answer from them....
Dave_Mc
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#6
do you know what size magnet it has? you could sorta make an educated guess from that.
Quote by classicrocker01
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tubetime86
I don't even play guitar.
Join date: Jul 2008
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#7
Quote by Airfish
Well, they dont know me yet.... sure as hell they won´t get rid of me till I get an answer from them....

Tack this line onto your next email; "It's not like I'm asking to see schematics of one of your 'all-tube' amps." That might get them moving (or get you 'blackstarblacklisted.')
Quote by Cathbard
Quote by Raijouta
Unless its electronic drums.

BURN THE WITCH!!!!!
Airfish
Likes them new toyz... ;)
Join date: Jan 2013
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#8
Quote by tubetime86
Tack this line onto your next email; "It's not like I'm asking to see schematics of one of your 'all-tube' amps." That might get them moving (or get you 'blackstarblacklisted.')


I see.... well, I really dont give a flying f*ck about that hybrid/all-tube issue, I tried the thing out and liked what I heard. But guess my original email could have caused some trademark BS paranoia....
OK, I will try to ask just for that ONE SINGLE FIGURE and see what happens....
Airfish
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Join date: Jan 2013
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#9
Quote by Dave_Mc
do you know what size magnet it has? you could sorta make an educated guess from that.


nope....

only thing I got is pictures and it´s hard to tell from them. Our local shops only have the combo version, which is closed back, and then the HTV with the Celestion. No HT cab with open back to look at an measure stuff....
Airfish
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#10
OK, so I got an answer from BS - they say the Blackbird 50 is rated at 100 dB/W/m. Took them exactly 12 hours to answer, which is not bad.
Dave_Mc
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#11
yeah that's not too bad, credit where credit's due.

of course now you're into the "how did they measure that 100dB rating?" conundrum, lol.
Quote by classicrocker01
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tubetime86
I don't even play guitar.
Join date: Jul 2008
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#12
Did the email come from 'marketing@blackstar.com' or 'engineering@blackstar.com' ?
Quote by Cathbard
Quote by Raijouta
Unless its electronic drums.

BURN THE WITCH!!!!!
Dave_Mc
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Join date: Mar 2005
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#13


"that may look exactly like a speaker but it's actually not involved in any sound production"

Quote by classicrocker01
Only on UG would I say I got engaged and bought a jet city and get congratulated on the amp


tubetime86
I don't even play guitar.
Join date: Jul 2008
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#14


"Hey Bill, what's a good SPL rating for a speaker?"

"I believe 100 dB is considered a good number..."

"Alright cool, thanks!"



(Just messing around TS, but in reality this is the problem with Blackstar and the whole tube/hybrid thing; they've been all but proven to be liars, so it's hard to believe anything they say now.)
Quote by Cathbard
Quote by Raijouta
Unless its electronic drums.

BURN THE WITCH!!!!!
Dave_Mc
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#15
Quote by classicrocker01
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Blktiger0
The Name's Devon! ;)
Join date: Sep 2007
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#16
This thread is pure win

The email address comment is pure gold, tubetime

Yeah, TS, the issue with Blackstar isn't that they make Hybrid amps. That's no a problem at all, as long as it sounds good. What they did was marketed them and advertised them as "All-tube" when they are, in fact, very very hybrid. Then, when confronted with the Solid State nonsense in the signal path of their amps, they STILL tried to claim that it made no difference and that the amps were all-tube.

Needless to say, they aren't exactly a group that is very trusted, in terms of their word. Similar to how Bugera isn't trusted in terms of their flamability.

If the Blackbird is indeed 100db rated, then the Celestion would be slightly quieter, but the V30 is known for a pretty vicious spike in the upper-mids, which makes them sound louder, so in all reality, there may be zero audible difference between the two.

It also depends on how they measured that, like mentioned.
trashedlostfdup
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Join date: Apr 2010
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#17
it wouldn't matter that much if the was a 1db or 2db difference. either way it would be certainly be loud.

the only time that i have seen from experience that the sensitivity matter was when i had celestion EVH speakers and Vintage 30's in the same cab, i could hear the difference relative to the cab and the height. so the EVH's aren't as audible as the V30's.

when i get around to it i will pop two V30's into the other cab and pull the EVH's out, and put them in my orange OB cab.
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nope i am "GOD of the guitar forum" i think that fits me better.


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Airfish
Likes them new toyz... ;)
Join date: Jan 2013
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#18
Quote by trashedlostfdup
it wouldn't matter that much if the was a 1db or 2db difference. either way it would be certainly be loud.

the only time that i have seen from experience that the sensitivity matter was when i had celestion EVH speakers and Vintage 30's in the same cab, i could hear the difference relative to the cab and the height. so the EVH's aren't as audible as the V30's.

when i get around to it i will pop two V30's into the other cab and pull the EVH's out, and put them in my orange OB cab.



Man, great you mentioned the EVHs! What are they like in terms of tone? Closer to the scooped G12-75T stuff, or more like the midrangy V30 & co? I´m asking because I think about changing the stock Blackstar Blackbird for the V30, but then I guess I would need an attenuator, for home use (thin walls, sensitive neighbours, bla bla yada yada). And I saw that the EVH is only like 95 or 96 dB/W/m, so it could do OK, even without the attenuator. But I need the tone to be more on the mids, rather than bassy+trebly. So what is the EVH tonewise?
Dave_Mc
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#19
^ the evh speakers are just heritage greenbacks, aren't they? if so, i'd assume more midrangey (but a lot more vintage-sounding than v30s).
Quote by classicrocker01
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Airfish
Likes them new toyz... ;)
Join date: Jan 2013
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#20
I know they are based on the Greenbacks, but I guess they must have modified the originals technically, beside just gluing a fancy EVH sticker on the magnet.... the sensitivity is 96 dB instead of 98dB, its 20W instead of 25W....
Dave_Mc
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#21
the heritage greenbacks are rated at 20w and have 96db sensitivity too
Quote by classicrocker01
Only on UG would I say I got engaged and bought a jet city and get congratulated on the amp


Airfish
Likes them new toyz... ;)
Join date: Jan 2013
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#22
Quote by Dave_Mc
the heritage greenbacks are rated at 20w and have 96db sensitivity too


so it´s heritage greenbacks, not ordinary greenbacks.... ok, got it, thanx.
Dave_Mc
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#23
yeah i think so. I haven't tried either, though, just going by what I've read.
Quote by classicrocker01
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trashedlostfdup
diet coke fiend.
Join date: Apr 2010
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#24
Quote by Airfish
I know they are based on the Greenbacks, but I guess they must have modified the originals technically, beside just gluing a fancy EVH sticker on the magnet.... the sensitivity is 96 dB instead of 98dB, its 20W instead of 25W....


first off, i didn't buy the speakers, they came with the cab, so i never would have mixed V30's with something that has a lower sensitivity to that degree.

pretty much green back maybe a little bit balsy on the mids, but i don't have greenbacks now so not anything to directly compare to.

keep in mind that even if you had a quad of EVH's you wouln't be able to handle more than 80 watts, on a 2x12" 40 watts. all i would be able to run into them at that wattage of mine would be the dual terror, 18 watter, and thats it. with a quad (which i only have two) you still couldn't run a 100 watt head, if i had a quad i would run it with my JTM45, sovtek MIG.
WTLT 2014 GG&A

Quote by andersondb7
alright "king of the guitar forum"


Quote by trashedlostfdup
nope i am "GOD of the guitar forum" i think that fits me better.


Quote by andersondb7
youre just being a jerk man.
Airfish
Likes them new toyz... ;)
Join date: Jan 2013
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#25
Quote by trashedlostfdup
first off, i didn't buy the speakers, they came with the cab, so i never would have mixed V30's with something that has a lower sensitivity to that degree.

pretty much green back maybe a little bit balsy on the mids, but i don't have greenbacks now so not anything to directly compare to.

keep in mind that even if you had a quad of EVH's you wouln't be able to handle more than 80 watts, on a 2x12" 40 watts. all i would be able to run into them at that wattage of mine would be the dual terror, 18 watter, and thats it. with a quad (which i only have two) you still couldn't run a 100 watt head, if i had a quad i would run it with my JTM45, sovtek MIG.


Thanx for reminding me. But as I wrote, my case is all about 112 cabs, and all about the 5-watt Blackstar. Even if I decide to buy the 20-watt Blackstar, it should still be OK, as I would hardly ever dime that thing, at home or during a moderately violent garage jam with friends....