craney5
Registered User
Join date: Jan 2013
133 IQ
#1
Hi all

I have only just joined up here this morning so hello to everyone go easy on me

Im looking to take some acoustic guitar lessons either from paying lessons or perhaps trying to learn from the interent. Im looking to pickup my first guitar in the next few weeks but dont want to rush into it and end up getting something i am not happy with.

Just looking to find out what people seems to have had success with in reagards to buying a 1st acoustic. I have been browsing around the web and i do really like the look of the Epiphone EJ-200 but it seems a little hard to come by but looked a nice price at around £260-£300. Would that be to expensive do you think for a 1st guitar?

I really would appreciate anyones help and time in helping me find something that would be great for me

Thanks so much everyone

Liam
stepchildusmc
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Join date: Jul 2011
413 IQ
#2
if you can afford it, no. the better guitar you start with, the more the likelihood that you'll keep playing it. the cheaper guitars are horrible and difficult to play. another choice in the range would be a yamaha FG700. great guitar for the money. very good build quality. not as pretty but you aren't really buying it for its looks, ultimately sound is what you want.
you'll have enough left over for the rest of the essentials... a Snark clip-on tuner, a capo and a selection of picks.
craney5
Registered User
Join date: Jan 2013
133 IQ
#3
Thanks so much for that mate, i live in the UK essex to be exact i dont suppose there are some well known guitar shops you might know off assuming you live in the UK yourself that might be worth taking a look at?

Dont mean to sound silly here but what is the main gain from using a capo on an acoustic?

Thanks again matey
azrael4h
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Join date: Nov 2012
214 IQ
#4
It allows you to play open chords higher up the neck. I've written exactly two songs that require mine, but for those songs, it's absolutely a requirement. I suppose you could just use Barre chords all the time, but I suck at those.

I second the Snark tuner. I absolutely love mine. It makes tuning my 12 string so easy.

I've liked the feel and sound on those Yamahas as well, though I also found several very nice and inexpensive Ibanez guitars. There's one at the local GC that's been heavily discounted, due to wear from sitting on the shelf for so long and getting played over and over. Outstanding tone, and easy to play. Of course, I don't know what they would cost over in the UK, or if they're even available. But if I was buying or picking a guitar for an absolute new player, I would go toward the Yamaha FG series or an Ibanez acoustic. Unless they were wealthy, in which case, I'd hand them a Taylor or Martin. Mostly a Taylor, I absolutely adore those.
craney5
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Join date: Jan 2013
133 IQ
#5
Thanks for that mate, dont know if i would ever be able to write a song full credit to you though for doing so!

I actually have a guitar shop right on my doorstep could not believe it! Went in there this afternoon they had so many it was a real insight. The one that felt the best to me was a Crafter TC035 6 string model it had a great base sound to it. The price was £351. They had a lot of fender models in there but the guys in there were great and they played me some chords on them but to me they sounded quite "Tinny" so to speak compared to the Crafter.

The crafter had a solid wood top but laminate sides but i must admit the sound was nice and its a semi acoustic as well should i decide to plug an amp in i guess. Had a nice tuner built in as well which i guess can only help a 1st timer like myself . I can feel it on my finger tips already only had a few strums!
Captaincranky
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Join date: Sep 2011
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#6
Quote by craney5
The one that felt the best to me was a Crafter TC035 6 string model it had a great base sound to it. The price was £351. They had a lot of fender models in there but the guys in there were great and they played me some chords on them but to me they sounded quite "Tinny" so to speak compared to the Crafter.
Crafter guitars have a fine reputation. However, it's not a "push" product, here in the USA. Our major online retailer don't carry them.

With that said, a couple of our members from overseas and Australia, do recommend them.

Fender is striving for the "Fender sound", very bright and twangy, even in their acoustics, which serves to explain the "tinny" appraisal, coming from someone who is obviously not a fan of that kind of sonic philosophy.

Overall, I think a Crafter might be a slightly better buy than Fender. Crafter is MIK, While the Fenders are MIC.

You can brighten a "dull" guitar, or "tame" a very bright one, which your choice of string sets. 80/20 brass strings are bright, while phosphor bronze sets are much warmer. After you decide on a guitar, string choice will give you a little "wiggle room" to tweak the sound to your liking.


Quote by azrael4h
It allows you to play open chords higher up the neck. I've written exactly two songs that require mine, but for those songs, it's absolutely a requirement. I suppose you could just use Barre chords all the time, but I suck at those.
Using open chords allows unfretted strings to "drone". Which is great to fill out the sound when you're playing alone. However, when you release a barre chord, you almost can't help a momentary, (or intentional) full mute. In any event, sometimes you want a"stacatto" effect, and you have to turn to using barres.

Quote by azrael4h
I second the Snark tuner. I absolutely love mine. It makes tuning my 12 string so easy.
Gosh, I have three 12 strings, 2 snarks, a Planet Waves clip on tuner, and a Fender pedal tuner, and I wouldn't call any 12 string, "easy to tune". That could be me though.

I was looking for a rack tuner with a frequency counter feature, when I was rudely faced with the $1000.00 a pop average price for one.

BTW, pretty much everyone sucks at barre chords on a 12 string. Don't be too hard on yourself...
Last edited by Captaincranky at Jan 30, 2013,
craney5
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Join date: Jan 2013
133 IQ
#7
Thanks for the in depth response mate much appreciated. I think i might bite the bullet and treat myself to the Crafter they had some £99 Fenders but i thought id rather pay a little more and perhaps buy something i would look to keep long term.

I have been browsing the web all afternoon looking for basic starting guides and i must say its all very daunting at the first glance but i guess it will take time to learn all the different chords out there. I think i might look into 1 to 1 lessons to start me off just so i know i have the basics correct. There is a chap close to me who does them for £25 an hr so maybe that might be a good place to start.

If i am honest im only looking to really get into this for a hobby as i feel it can really help clear your head so to speak and lets you go into your own little world which i could really do with as work stresses me out!

I love acoustic music more than anything which is why i would like to opt for an acoustic guitar, i'm a massive Noel fan and have been for years and i just love his acoustic gigs he did with Gem back in 2006 and just watching them is whats inspiring me to actually go for it. Had a quick look at the chords for a few of his acoustic tracks and they do seem rather complicated but i guess once you have the basics it will come with time.........i hope

Thanks again guys
azrael4h
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Join date: Nov 2012
214 IQ
#8
Quote by Captaincranky

Gosh, I have three 12 strings, 2 snarks, a Planet Waves clip on tuner, and a Fender pedal tuner, and I wouldn't call any 12 string, "easy to tune". That could be me though.


Compared to trying to tune it with a pitch pipe, using a snark is super easy . I want one of those Smith 18 string guitars too, that should be fun to tune, in the Dwarf Fortress sense.

On the capo, I'll admit my technical knowledge is a bit lacking. My method of writing is playing stuff that sounds right over and over, then slowly writing a tab for it. The two songs I've wrote basically just needed to move up the neck, so I dug out the capo, and voila! slapping it on the third fret and playing open chords from there made it sound exactly as it did in my head.


BTW, pretty much everyone sucks at barre chords on a 12 string. Don't be too hard on yourself...


Yes, but I also suck at barre chords on a 6 string. I think I would suck at them on a one string some days. :P

I agree with you on the Fender acoustics. I love my 12 string's sound, but I also bought that years ago. I sold a 2011 Fender 6 string not long ago because of it's overly bright and twangy sound. Replaced it with a Martin and never looked back.
stepchildusmc
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Join date: Jul 2011
413 IQ
#9
the crafter would be a great choice craney. built in tuners are the bomb !!! don't worry about how daunting it is at first. learning guitar is like learning a whole new language, just worry about one word at a time. www.justinguitar.com is an excellent place to start if you aren't using a teacher. great lesson plans. the guys are right about bar chords( here in the US, we cheat and shorten everything). i worked very hard on the F bar chord. justin has a great 1 minute chord changing excercise. i used with the F and every other major/minor chord for months. if you can get the F down, every other chord is relatively simple. i just started with the hardest, made the others much easier to learn.
craney5
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Join date: Jan 2013
133 IQ
#10
Thanks so much for the advice and link mate much appreciated! Im going to pick up my Crafter TCO35 tomorrow from these guys who are just round the corner from me
http://www.peachguitars.com/
Prescott_Player
Registered User
Join date: Jul 2012
65 IQ
#11
Hello and welcome !

The guitar recommendation question comes up a lot around here... you are definitely right that you want to start with a good guitar, otherwise you won't be able to get anywhere.

What I always tell people is that there is no guitar on the market that plays well, right out of the box. At least I don't think so. But on the other hand, there are quite a few that have the potential, if you just do an action job on them. So rather than recommend a specific brand, I just say to pick a nice one with the tone woods you prefer and then be prepared to put some time and money into tweaking it up.

I like a solid Sitka spuce top with a mahogany box. That's pretty common and gives a nice bright sound. By the way, a 25.5" scale is also brighter than the shorter scale models. And as to box size, I prefer an Orchestral or better yet a Grand Concert... Dreadnaughts are really bulky and uncomfortable, for me.

Now, the action job usually involves fret leveling, switching to lighter strings, adjusting the truss rod, and lowering the saddle. In addition I always recommend changing the tuners to Grover (18 to 1 ratio) and installing Schaller strap locks.

Don't forget to get a really nice hard case, and keep the guitar in it whenever it's not in use.

Other things you'll need... digital tuner, picks, strap, stand, extra strings, tuner crank, pin puller, and perhaps a music stand if you intend to play from written material.

Oh yeah, don't forget the nail clippers !

Cheers,

Jean
Last edited by Prescott_Player at Feb 1, 2013,
craney5
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Join date: Jan 2013
133 IQ
#12
Thanks very much for all the info mate, this is the spec for the guitar i quite like the feel of. It felt a tiny bit bulky on my right arm (struming arm) but i think thats just down to me not being used to holding a guitar. It was a dreadnought size i believe

There was a smaller guitar which was really nice and comfy, Fender Ron Emory Loyalty Slope Jr Parlor was the model but the sound was not as nice which was a shame. This is the smaller guitar i mention

http://www.peachguitars.com/guitars/acoustic-guitars/6-string/fender-ron-emory-loyalty-slope-jr-parlor.htm

They do it in the dreadnought size as well, the spec for the crafter guitar i like is below what do you think? Description not from the site below as it was not actually on there so got it from another site

http://www.peachguitars.com/guitars/acoustic-guitars/6-string/crafter-tc035.htm
Crafter TC-035 Natural

MODEL NAME - TC035/N
BODY STYLE - Orchestra Cutaway Model
TOP - Solid Engelmann Spruce
BACK - Indian Rosewood
SIDES - Indian Rosewood
BRACING - A-brace
NECK - Mahogany
WIDTH AT NUT - 43mm
FRET BOARD - Indian Rosewood
SCALE LENGTH - 647.70mm
NO. OF FRETS - 21
MACHINE HEADS - Gold Diecast tuners
BRIDGE - Indian Rosewood
HARDWARE - Gold
ELECTRONICS - New LR-T RX (LCD Tuner) Preamp with L.R.Baggs Element Pick-up
COLOUR - Natural
FINISH - Gloss
UNIQUE FEATURES - Dovetail Neck Joint, Snowdrop position marks, Abalone body binding & soundhole inlay, Combo Jack
STRINGS - DAddario EJ26 Custom Light, Gauges(m/m): 0.28, 0.38, 0.56, 0.81, 1.07, 1.32
Colour: Natural
New/2nd hand: New
Incl. extras: Inc. Gigbag
Last edited by craney5 at Feb 1, 2013,
stepchildusmc
Registered User
Join date: Jul 2011
413 IQ
#13
ahh...compromises, compromises. if you like the richer fuller sound of the dread, it'll get easier to play with some practice. that crafter looks nice...good specs. there aren't any crafter dealers in my area unfortunately(patticake probably has a source for them in her hall closet...curse her!) so i can't try one. they look interesting and i hear good reviews about them.
craney5
Registered User
Join date: Jan 2013
133 IQ
#14
I ended up buying myself the Crafter , just waiting for the guys to lower the action a little for me as it was a little high so shall be picking it up tomorrow
http://www.musicwarehouse.co.uk/crafter/1455--crafter-tc035-solid-engelmann-spruce-electro-acoustic-guitar.html

Will the built in tuner on the Crafter be good enough do you think or would i be better off buying a seperate one? Not sure what else i need to pickup, i have my picks and guitar thats it for now need to get a strap sometime soon when i decide to try and stand and play i guess
Last edited by craney5 at Feb 1, 2013,
stepchildusmc
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Join date: Jul 2011
413 IQ
#15
a capo will be a must. onboard tuner should be fine. a simple guitar stand should be kept handy. experiment with picks. i have 3 different ones i use regularly. picks are like strings( of which a spare set should ALWAYS be handy), very subjective to the players ears.
don't forget to take some pics of it and post them in a HNGD thread, we all enjoy a new guitar...it's like baby pictures with women... only time you'll get me to say "aww...eets soooo cuuute" is in a HNGD
craney5
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Join date: Jan 2013
133 IQ
#16
Cheers for that pal i shall indeed post a few pictures up tomorrow evening once ive picked up my new baby
cypherdid
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Join date: Sep 2005
416 IQ
#17
Every guitar is different. Like snowflakes. Even the same model from the same manufacturer. Try as many guitars as You can in Your hometown...pick one that sounds good for You. Doesn't matter if it's a Fender, Yamaha, Crafter, Takamine, Tanglewood or whatever.
craney5
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Join date: Jan 2013
133 IQ
#18
Finally getting started with my new toy and i am getting the hand of the D chord haha i guess its not a bad start for a 1st timer. Im looking at the Justin Guitar site which seems to be the best place to start fro begineers like me. Im looking to hopefully be able to learn some Noel Gallagher acoustic tunes but still seems a little way off going by some of the tutorials i have seen on youtube but hopefully one day i'll get there
Captaincranky
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Join date: Sep 2011
288 IQ
#19
Good work! The D major open chord is possibly the most wondrous of all guitar chords. Not only that, you never outgrow it! Nor does one ever get tired of it. By lifting and adding various fingers, it's the chameleon of guitar chords. D5add9, Dsuss4, D7, Dmaj7, Gadd9, D6, and possibly others are at your beckon call. I've played that chord for pushing 50 years, and I love it now, as much as the day I first met it. (Seriously!). It is THE go to 12 string chord. Rodger McGuinn, (The Byrds), had hit after hit involving D major at some point and a Rickenbacker 12 string.....Patti Smith has a new song out, "Banga", that only uses one chord, D major. (Seriously)......
Last edited by Captaincranky at Feb 4, 2013,
craney5
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133 IQ
#20
Haha i have only just about learned D let alone all the other you mention there

Kind of a random question, when using a capo say on the 2nd fret does this then mean the when playing chords etc the 3rd fret effectively becomes the 1st fret?

Bare with me im still learning
Captaincranky
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Join date: Sep 2011
288 IQ
#21
Quote by craney5
Haha i have only just about learned D let alone all the other you mention there

Kind of a random question, when using a capo say on the 2nd fret does this then mean the when playing chords etc the 3rd fret effectively becomes the 1st fret?

Bare with me im still learning
Imagine my shame when I realized I forgot to mention D minor (Dm) ! It seems too important to forget.

All to the chords I mentioned are reached, for the most part, by lifting a finger, or putting a finger down, from the basic D chord.

You have to learn the 5 major open chord "shapes". You'll see those sometimes referred to as "CAGED", which is a teaching system based on those 5 majors at different locations on the neck. So, C, A, G, E, & D, are all available in the open position, plus 3 minor derivations of Dm, Em, & Am.

These are lovingly referred to as "cowboy chords" as a large part of country and folk music is comprised of these chords, and only these chords!

The other 2 chords you'll run into as a beginner are Bb and F. These are "barre chords" based on the A and E shapes respectively.

The capo moves the "top nut" of the guitar to whichever fret you place it. The frets of the guitar follow the 12 tones of the "chromatic scale". So, if you place a capo on the 3rd fret, and play the chords, (shapes), of the key of G major, (G, C, & D), you will be playing in the key of Bb, and the chord names will now be Bb, Eb, & F. You have moved the key up the chromatic scale by "3 semitones".

That's enough theory for now as I don't want your head to break. (at least not all at once).

Music that is written for a guitar intended to be capoed, is generally annotated naming the chords as they would be played open, not as the actual key you'll be playing in.

Written music will show the melody and chords in the correct key on the staff, but the chord letters above will give the open chord names, and the fret to place the capo.

Please check out this Bryan Adams tab, "Run to You": http://tabs.ultimate-guitar.com/b/bryan_adams/run_to_you_crd.htm It gives the chords for the key of G, but asks you to put a capo on the second fret. That puts the actual key at A, but you play in G.

I will, "bear" with you. But, I will not "bare" with you, which would require getting naked.

We here in the colonies look to you Brits to lead us through the maze of homophones that is the English language. Please don't disappoint us....
Last edited by Captaincranky at Feb 5, 2013,
stepchildusmc
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Join date: Jul 2011
413 IQ
#22
in short craney...yes . and yes, cranky will get naked on request... never invite him over for yahtzee and a movie !
Captaincranky
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288 IQ
#23
Yahtzee...Yahtzee....,Yahtzee.....,Yahtzee.....Yahtzee......Yahtzee.......YAHTZEE......!!!!
Last edited by Captaincranky at Feb 5, 2013,
tuxs
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Join date: Oct 2003
25 IQ
#24
Gee Cranky it crossed my mind that you would give him Brian Adams other hit. " Summer of 69" played to me fingers bleed. Cheers
Captaincranky
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288 IQ
#25
Quote by tuxs
Gee Cranky it crossed my mind that you would give him Brian Adams other hit. " Summer of 69" played to me fingers bleed. Cheers
Yeah, I always quote that song for newbies who think learning to play is supposed to be painless. Don't think that's the case here though.

In any event, this was a capo question, and "Summer of '69", is stone in D major, and played open... (It modulates to F major, but we haven't gotten that far yet). It's actually a great acoustic song too. I have a bit of trouble with the F# in the melody on the D chord though......As raspy as he is, Bryan Adams is a pretty high tenor.

Given my sense of "whimsy" and "irony", I've taken to playing the song exclusively on the 12 string...
Last edited by Captaincranky at Feb 5, 2013,
craney5
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133 IQ
#26
This is the 1st song i intend to try and learn, i was just a little confused though after going through the chords it shows. When i hover over the chord it shows which strings need to be played but it seems to be showing different notes not the standard eadgbe?
http://tabs.ultimate-guitar.com/n/noel_gallagher/fade_away_acoustic_crd.htm

Just wondered why this might be? Dont mean to sound silly here still kinda finding my way around all the different chords etc. Learning them is one thing but then rying to change between chords is a whole different ball game for me lol. I'll get there i hope
Last edited by craney5 at Feb 7, 2013,
Captaincranky
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#27
Quote by craney5
This is the 1st song i intend to try and learn, i was just a little confused though after going through the chords it shows. When i hover over the chord it shows which strings need to be played but it seems to be showing different notes not the standard eadgbe?


My mind reader's on the fritz craney, which song is "this song", and where is the music located?
Captaincranky
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#29
Quote by craney5
This is the 1st song i intend to try and learn, i was just a little confused though after going through the chords it shows. When i hover over the chord it shows which strings need to be played but it seems to be showing different notes not the standard eadgbe?


The chord diagrams are correct to form the named chords called for, in E standard tuning (EADGBE).

I didn't want to say this but, the note name will change when you fret a string. I'm sure you know this, but you haven't gotten down the names of the notes on the fret board yet, and that's what's giving you trouble.

I asked you to work on learning the "chromatic scale". From there, it will become second nature to name the note on the string and fret you're playing.

Natural notes only have one name, "A, B, C, D, E, F, G". While sharps and flats have two names, depending on how, and in what "Key" they are being used.

IE:The pairs of sharps and flats, (A#=Bb), (C#=Db), (F#=Gb), (G#=Ab).
craney5
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Join date: Jan 2013
133 IQ
#30
I have been looking into the chromatic scale this afternoon and its all to much for my brain to take in at the mo im getting myself all confused.

I was just confused when looking at the chords for the song and it states the top e string is not touched yet when you look the fmaj7 and g6 its showing you in the example that you need it? Im sure i have this wrong being a newby and learning to read chord boxes etc lol

Thanks for all your kind help help CaptainCranky tho i really appreciate your time
Captaincranky
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#31
Quote by craney5
I have been looking into the chromatic scale this afternoon and its all to much for my brain to take in at the mo im getting myself all confused.
OK, so the top string is either not touched at all, or played as a "drone"?

I can't say since I've never heard the song.

Nonetheless, the chord pictures are correct as to finger formations.

You would still finger a "D major chord" the way it's shown in the picture.

e-1 __ 2 (F# is the note)
B-2__ 3 (D is the note)
G-3__ 2 (A is the note)
D-4__ 0
A-5__ 0

If you're going to "drone" the e-1 string, just lift your finger clear and let it sound as the open E.

If you're going to not play the top string at all, you could either lift your finger partially to "mute" the string, or you could simply not hit it with the pick.

So, here is the chromatic scale in its entirety:

A, (A#=Bb), B, C, (C#=Db), D, (D#=Eb) E, F, (F#=Gb), G, (G#=Ab), A

Notice that B/C, and E/F, do not have a sharp or flat between them!

This corresponds to the piano keyboard, and if you look at it, you'll see the pairs of white keys next to one another. These are the B/C's, & E/F's. Natural notes are all white, sharps or flats are black.

Whether a note is a sharp or a flat will have no meaning to you until you learn what "keys" are, and how the notes in them are named. Be patient.
Last edited by Captaincranky at Feb 7, 2013,
craney5
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133 IQ
#32
Thanks so much for that info, i know it will take time to pick up i think i just way ahead of myself at times!

Im slowly getting there with the basic chords A,D,E so i think just mastering them and changing between them is where i should be looking to master before going to far. I always find myself muting the High E (thin one) with my 3rd finger on the B String on some chords mainly the D chord that is

It will come i know well i hope
craney5
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#34
Yea i am going to book one very soon so i make sure i get the basics right. I just cant get to grip with strumming patterns at the mo. From reading the tab i cant seem to tell when you need to do an up or down strum