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#81
Quote by TunerAddict
So much stupid in this thread.

yup, but it's like a car crash. I don't want to be in it but I can't stop looking.


Prime example being Sam's "the arabs always start it" when we're in a thread about Israel attacking another country without being attacked first.
#82
Quote by willT08
If there's one thing Israel is good for, it's not taking land they shouldn't have.


What do you mean shouldn't have? They've been there for decades, what justifies what they should or shouldn't have? Most of the people who were alive when Israel was created is dead. All this conflict is religious.

It's like saying the US shouldn't exist because they took the land from the Natives. If you wanna play that way, then most of Europe should belong to Italy because of Ancient Rome.
Quote by progdude93
my fetish is dudes with dicks small enough to pee on their own sacks.
#83
Quote by crazysam23_Atax

Edit:
I've never heard of a Jewish Rabbi* who says that everyone who isn't Jewish is their enemy. I have heard of many Muslims Imams who say that if one isn't Muslim, then they must be converted or die.

*I'm sure that there are a few Jews who say all non-Jews are the enemy, but they're not within the teachings of the Torah if they say that.

We're talking about the land though. I'm sure you've heard plenty of Rabbi's say that the land of Israel belongs to the Jews because it was given to them by God. That'd be perfectly in line with the Torah. And is the reason for a lot of hostility from Jews towards Arabs who want to peacefully live together.

I don't really care which side has more mental people on it because they're all planks
#84
Quote by Jostry
All this conflict is religious.


You aren't allowed to comment on this anymore because you're clearly developmentally disabled.
Quote by jrcsgtpeppers

If women can be annoyed there arent any women incongress I should be allowed to be pissed off there are no members of pink floyd or the beatles in congress.
#85
Quote by Jostry
What do you mean shouldn't have? They've been there for decades, what justifies what they should or shouldn't have? Most of the people who were alive when Israel was created is dead. All this conflict is religious.

It's like saying the US shouldn't exist because they took the land from the Natives. If you wanna play that way, then most of Europe should belong to Italy because of Ancient Rome.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-21274061

These illegal settlements stuff? Yah, the ones that are illegal under international law? There's only a few thousand of them planned right now.


But lol yah you're right, all of this is just religion
#86
Quote by willT08
We're talking about the land though. I'm sure you've heard plenty of Rabbi's say that the land of Israel belongs to the Jews because it was given to them by God. That'd be perfectly in line with the Torah. And is the reason for a lot of hostility from Jews towards Arabs who want to peacefully live together.

To be fair, the Jews historically have not had any issue with Muslims living in Israel. In fact, by Torah, you're supposed to treat the stranger (read: foreigner, non-Jew) in your land well. Most Rabbis, if they wanted to be strictly followers of Torah in this matter, would have no issue with peaceful Muslims living in Israel. And to be fair, most of them don't have any issue with that.

Quote by ali.guitarkid7
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-21274061

These illegal settlements stuff? Yah, the ones that are illegal under international law? There's only a few thousand of them planned right now.

International law means "fuck all".

Quote by TunerAddict
You aren't allowed to comment on this anymore because you're clearly developmentally disabled.

Other than insulting people and stating that you clearly know more than the rest of us, what gives you the right to determine that? Did you end up with super-secret powers from the mods that allow you to tell people they can't post on a subject? No? Ok, then.
Last edited by crazysam23_Atax at Jan 31, 2013,
#87
Quote by TunerAddict
You aren't allowed to comment on this anymore because you're clearly developmentally disabled.


It's all religious.

"God gave us this land for our people!"

"No! God gave us this land for OUR people!"

Religious at the core, masked by international treaties and laws. And all you've posted so far is saying everything is stupid in this thread. Nice job making it less stupid.
Quote by progdude93
my fetish is dudes with dicks small enough to pee on their own sacks.
Last edited by Jostry at Jan 31, 2013,
#88
Quote by crazysam23_Atax
To be fair, the Jews historically have not had any issue with Muslims living in Israel. In fact, by Torah, you're supposed to treat the stranger (read: foreigner, non-Jew) in your land well. Most Rabbis, if they wanted to be strictly followers of Torah in this matter, would have no issue with peaceful Muslims living in Israel. And to be fair, most of them don't have any issue with that.


The Qur'an says "God does not forbid you from those who do not fight you because of religion and do not expel you from your homes – from dealing kindly and justly with them." So most Imams and Muslims would have no issue with living with peaceful Jews in Israel
#89
Quote by Jostry
It's all religious.

"God gave us this land for our people!"

"No! God gave us this land for OUR people!"

Religious. And all you've posted so far is saying everything is stupid in this thread. Nice job making it less stupid.


Then why did Jews and Muslims live there together for so long?

You honestly think there wouldn't be fighting currently if neither were religious?
Quote by jrcsgtpeppers

If women can be annoyed there arent any women incongress I should be allowed to be pissed off there are no members of pink floyd or the beatles in congress.
#90
Quote by crazysam23_Atax
International law means "fuck all".

What does this mean, though?

The report says settlements displace Palestinians, destroy their crops and property, and subject them to violence.



I'm certain that homelessness, poverty, famine, beatings and indefinite detention of civilians who speak out against the aforementioned means "fuck all" to Israel but I didn't think you'd agree.
#91
Quote by crazysam23_Atax

Other than insulting people and stating that you clearly know more than the rest of us, what gives you the right to determine that? Did you end up with super-secret powers from the mods that allow you to tell people they can't post on a subject? No? Ok, then.


Ironic being that I'm imitating how you were posting for the majority of the thread.

Quote by ali.guitarkid7
What does this mean, though?


It means he doesn't have an argument against it, so he dismissed it.
Quote by jrcsgtpeppers

If women can be annoyed there arent any women incongress I should be allowed to be pissed off there are no members of pink floyd or the beatles in congress.
#92
Quote by willT08
The Qur'an says "God does not forbid you from those who do not fight you because of religion and do not expel you from your homes – from dealing kindly and justly with them." So most Imams and Muslims would have no issue with living with peaceful Jews in Israel

Except that the teachings of the Imams teaches that you should kill the Infidel. Granted, by "Infidel" the Qur'an never means "non-Muslims", but that's how the common interpretation of many Imams spells it out.

For instance, take this anecdote I found on google.
When it was my turn, I directed my question to the Imam and asked: "Please, correct me if I'm wrong, but I understand that most Imams and clerics of Islam have declared a holy jihad [Holy war] against the infidels of the world. And, that by killing an infidel, which is a command to all Muslims, they are assured of a place in heaven. If that's the case, can you give me the definition of an infidel?"

There was no disagreement with my statements and, without hesitation, he replied, "Non-believers!"


Now, you're right that the Qur'an does NOT teach that. But many Muslim Imams do teach that. There's a gross misinterpretation among Muslims as to that area.
Last edited by crazysam23_Atax at Jan 31, 2013,
#93
Quote by crazysam23_Atax
Except that the teachings of the Imams teaches that you should kill the Infidel. Granted, by "Infidel", the Qur'an never means "non-Muslims" but that's how the common interpretation of many Imams spells it out.

For instance, take this anecdote I found on google.


Now, you're right that the Qur'an does NOT teach that. But many Muslim Imams do teach that. There's a gross misinterpretation among Muslims as to that area.


I'm sure the Qur'an has french words in it.
Quote by jrcsgtpeppers

If women can be annoyed there arent any women incongress I should be allowed to be pissed off there are no members of pink floyd or the beatles in congress.
#94
So when Rabbi's are mental we disregard it and say "Hey look, most Rabbi's don't say crazy shit. They stick to the Torah" but when you can literally pull a single example of a crazy Imam we go "See! Look, they're crazy. There's no talking to them"
#95
Quote by willT08
So when Rabbi's are mental we disregard it and say "Hey look, most Rabbi's don't say crazy shit. They stick to the Torah" but when you can literally pull a single example of a crazy Imam we go "See! Look, they're crazy. There's no talking to them"


Now you're getting it!
Quote by jrcsgtpeppers

If women can be annoyed there arent any women incongress I should be allowed to be pissed off there are no members of pink floyd or the beatles in congress.
#96
Quote by TunerAddict
Then why did Jews and Muslims live there together for so long?

You honestly think there wouldn't be fighting currently if neither were religious?


I'm not saying there would be ZERO conflicts, don't put words in my mouth, but there would be waaay less.
Quote by progdude93
my fetish is dudes with dicks small enough to pee on their own sacks.
#97
There are like... thousands examples of ridiculous Imams.
My God, it's full of stars!
#98
I don't know why I expected Sam to be objective but jesus

EDIT: ^^^ Yeah, that's what happens when you've got a billion strong following. I'm not even sure Islam has a disproportionate amount of crazies.
Last edited by willT08 at Jan 31, 2013,
#99
Quote by Jostry
I'm not saying there would be ZERO conflicts, don't put words in my mouth, but there would be waaay less.


You're wrong. That is the simplest way that I could put it. Removing religion from the situation does nothing. The reasons to fight are still there. What are they? Scarce resources. Land and water are incredibly scarce. That is why they fight.
Quote by jrcsgtpeppers

If women can be annoyed there arent any women incongress I should be allowed to be pissed off there are no members of pink floyd or the beatles in congress.
#100
Quote by Jostry
It's all religious.

"God gave us this land for our people!"

"No! God gave us this land for OUR people!"

Religious at the core, masked by international treaties and laws. And all you've posted so far is saying everything is stupid in this thread. Nice job making it less stupid.


I suggest you read the book A World Without Islam. It does a good job of explaining how that are/region will be tumultuous regardless of religion.

"A rose by any other name", if you will
My God, it's full of stars!
#101
Quote by Jostry
I'm not saying there would be ZERO conflicts, don't put words in my mouth, but there would be waaay less.


Yes you did.

Quote by Jostry
All this conflict is religious.


All is a rather enveloping term.
...Stapling helium to penguins since 1949.
#102
Quote by Dreadnought
There are like... thousands examples of ridiculous Imams.


As are there of Christian preachers and Rabbis. I cease to see your point.
Quote by jrcsgtpeppers

If women can be annoyed there arent any women incongress I should be allowed to be pissed off there are no members of pink floyd or the beatles in congress.
#103
Quote by TunerAddict
As are there of Christian preachers and Rabbis. I cease to see your point.


My point is exactly how I presented it, in response to a post by WillT. You are making assumptions, apparently.
My God, it's full of stars!
#104
Holy shit Did anyone open the link for the source of the anecdote Sam posted?


Dude, I'm sorry, but if you believed that this actually took place then I think you should talk to my Nigerian prince friend.
#105
Quote by crazysam23_Atax
How did I suggest this? All I suggested was that Israel has every right to defend itself. (Likewise, Palestinians have every right to defend themselves.) But the main point I was making was that Israel has NOT responded with aggressive force, unless sorely provoked. Examine most of the wars Israel has fought in in the last 70 years.


This is actually an example of Israel being sorely provoked before responding.

A few years ago some Palestinians started something, and Israel retaliated. Something like 13 Israelis died, and well over a thousand Palestinians died. At that point, it's no longer self defense, Israel had put out a match with a fire hose.
Quote by beadhangingOne
What happened to Snake?

Snake?

Snake?

SNAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAKE?!


Quote by TunerAddict
you can take my mouse and keyboard from my cold, slightly orange from cheetos, dead fingers


Quote by Baby Joel
Isis is amazing
#106
Quote by willT08
I don't know why I expected Sam to be objective but jesus

And how am I being unreasonable or illogical in my arguments?

Also, pretty sure no one here is objective at all; we all came into this discussion with our opinions pretty well formed. No one here is able to be objective at all.

Quote by ali.guitarkid7
Holy shit Did anyone open the link for the source of the anecdote Sam posted?


Dude, I'm sorry, but if you believed that this actually took place then I think you should talk to my Nigerian prince friend.

Whether it took place or not is irrelevant; it highlights an attitude of Islamic Imams interpretting the Qur'an wrongly.

Quote by Gibson_SG_uzr55
A few years ago some Palestinians started something, and Israel retaliated. Something like 13 Israelis died, and well over a thousand Palestinians died. At that point, it's no longer self defense, Israel had put out a match with a fire hose.

Iirc, the Palestinians had been shooting rockets at Israelis for a few months...
Last edited by crazysam23_Atax at Jan 31, 2013,
#107
14 dead, vs. 1400. The only argument I need.
Quote by beadhangingOne
What happened to Snake?

Snake?

Snake?

SNAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAKE?!


Quote by TunerAddict
you can take my mouse and keyboard from my cold, slightly orange from cheetos, dead fingers


Quote by Baby Joel
Isis is amazing
#108
Quote by Gibson_SG_uzr55
14 dead, vs. 1400. The only argument I need.


Trying to analyse a war based on death toll is incredibly silly.
...Stapling helium to penguins since 1949.
#109
I'm not even disagreeing with you in this case. I think Israel overdid it. But I am pointing out, it wasn't like the Palestinians just thumbed their noses at Israel. They shot rockets for a couple of months. Israel intercepted most of those rockets. Then, after a few months, they pounded back with excessive force.

Israel probably should have moderated its response. For instance, maybe they could have sent in Special Forces to do a surgical strike.
#110
I know I'm opposed to Israel's actions but I was trying to rustle Sam's jimmies
Quote by beadhangingOne
What happened to Snake?

Snake?

Snake?

SNAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAKE?!


Quote by TunerAddict
you can take my mouse and keyboard from my cold, slightly orange from cheetos, dead fingers


Quote by Baby Joel
Isis is amazing
#111
Quote by crazysam23_Atax
Whether it took place or not is irrelevant; it highlights an attitude of Islamic Imams interpretting the Qur'an wrongly.

See, dude, you're one of the UGers I like so I'm trying really hard not to be condescending or respond with animosity.


But you're not making it easy.


You're trying to convince me that most islamic imams have interpreted the word 'kafir' to mean "non-believers" (remember that a lot of my childhood was spent in many different mosques listening to probably hundreds of different imams) and you provide the least plausible anecdote there is, but still hope that it's enough proof when you personally admit that it's likely inauthentic.

Basically, this is the equivalent of me linking you to an "anecdote" on the site of a clearly deranged, racist man who claims to have spoken to a "black preacher" or something and found out that he hates all white men, but it totally doesn't matter if it really happened or not!
#112
Quote by ali.guitarkid7
but it totally doesn't matter if it really happened or not!

It actually doesn't. Are you denying that there's an attitude among many Muslims that all non-Muslims are the enemy? Are you denying that many Imams teach that same idea?

Edit:
I know, for a fact, that there are many peaceful Muslims. But I mean, we're not talking about peaceful Muslims when we're discussing Hezbollah or Hamas or any other group that seeks to attack Israel without any provocation besides "they're on the Holy Land".

Quote by Gibson_SG_uzr55
I know I'm opposed to Israel's actions but I was trying to rustle Sam's jimmies

Last edited by crazysam23_Atax at Jan 31, 2013,
#113
Quote by crazysam23_Atax
I'm not even disagreeing with you in this case. I think Israel overdid it. But I am pointing out, it wasn't like the Palestinians just thumbed their noses at Israel. They shot rockets for a couple of months. Israel intercepted most of those rockets. Then, after a few months, they pounded back with excessive force.

Israel probably should have moderated its response. For instance, maybe they could have sent in Special Forces to do a surgical strike.


**** you, you go do a "surgical strike." Who are you to mandate such actions?
My God, it's full of stars!
#114
Quote by crazysam23_Atax
It actually doesn't. Are you denying that there's an attitude among many Muslims that all non-Muslims are the enemy? Are you denying that many Imams teach that same idea?

This is a truth of Islam and Christianity. Not sure about the extent to which Jews do it.
Quote by beadhangingOne
What happened to Snake?

Snake?

Snake?

SNAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAKE?!


Quote by TunerAddict
you can take my mouse and keyboard from my cold, slightly orange from cheetos, dead fingers


Quote by Baby Joel
Isis is amazing
#115
Quote by crazysam23_Atax
It actually doesn't. Are you denying that there's an attitude among many Muslims that all non-Muslims are the enemy? Are you denying that many Imams teach that same idea?

Um, no, I'm saying it's not "many".


Are you denying that there are more shootings among black people than white people?
#116
Quote by ali.guitarkid7
Um, no, I'm saying it's not "many".

Ok, fine. I can go with that. Although, see my edit please.
#117
can someone tell me why so many people here are dumb (i'm not going to contribute anything productive but really some of you are dumb).
#118
Without provocation?


Okay, I cannot for my own well-being continue having this argument, so I will exit this thread knowing that in a few months it'll pop right back up once one of these assholes does something stupid.
#119
Quote by due 07
can someone tell me why so many people here are dumb (i'm not going to contribute anything productive but really some of you are dumb).


<3