)v(egaFan90
donkey chains......
Join date: Jul 2010
764 IQ
#1
Hey guys! I apologize if this has been posted again and again but with various descriptions of this technique it was hard to find anything using the search bar . So anyway, I was looking for any advice on general alternate picking that involves changing strings, either adjacent or skipping, against the direction of picking. For example,



A   -------------0-1-2-3--------------
E   ---0-1-2-3------------------------



When playing this sort of lick very fast, my pick will clip the low E string as I move to pick the A string. I don't have issues at slower speeds. I know the answer is just more practice, but it be nice to hear advice from someone who faced this same problem and found a successful way to overcome it. Danke!
People don't really go to heaven when they die. They're taken to a special place and burned - Sherlock Holmes


Your authority is not recognized in Fort Kickass!

It's not like bullshit, more like poetry.
hamza hashmi
Registered User
Join date: Oct 2012
787 IQ
#2
the answer is more practice, haha sorry it's the truth. but for changing strings this kind of excersise will come in handy for changing strings.

a--0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0.
e-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-.

you could also check out inside picking and outside picking on google.
)v(egaFan90
donkey chains......
Join date: Jul 2010
764 IQ
#3
Quote by hamza hashmi
the answer is more practice, haha sorry it's the truth. but for changing strings this kind of excersise will come in handy for changing strings.

a--0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0.
e-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-.

you could also check out inside picking and outside picking on google.


Ok I'll check out that inside and outside picking. I can do that exercise though because I just down pick then up pick. That's no problem for me.
People don't really go to heaven when they die. They're taken to a special place and burned - Sherlock Holmes


Your authority is not recognized in Fort Kickass!

It's not like bullshit, more like poetry.
Junior#1
Is SouTaicho Yamamoto-san
Join date: Oct 2007
238 IQ
#4
That's not string skipping.

But to answer your question, just find various other situations where you have to use that motion and keep practicing it until it becomes more natural. And also take things that you don't use that combination and try to change them so you are forced to work on your weaknesses. For example, instead of playing this:

e|-------------
B|-------------
G|-------------
D|-------------
A|-------5-7-8-
E|-5-7-8-

Starting with a down stroke, start with an up stroke instead.
Quote by Geldin
Junior's usually at least a little terse, but he knows his stuff. I've always read his posts in a grouchy grandfather voice, a grouchy grandfather with a huge stiffy for alternate picking.
Besides that, he's right this time. As usual.
)v(egaFan90
donkey chains......
Join date: Jul 2010
764 IQ
#5
Quote by Junior#1
That's not string skipping.

But to answer your question, just find various other situations where you have to use that motion and keep practicing it until it becomes more natural. And also take things that you don't use that combination and try to change them so you are forced to work on your weaknesses. For example, instead of playing this:

e|-------------
B|-------------
G|-------------
D|-------------
A|-------5-7-8-
E|-5-7-8-

Starting with a down stroke, start with an up stroke instead.


Ok. Thanks guys.
People don't really go to heaven when they die. They're taken to a special place and burned - Sherlock Holmes


Your authority is not recognized in Fort Kickass!

It's not like bullshit, more like poetry.
technical death
MAIN TANK
Join date: Mar 2009
789 IQ
#6
I remember trying to learn On the Shores of Ithaka by Quo Vadis and there's a particular portion where you play across 5 strings. It took me a good 2-3 weeks to get that part down. Playing it at normal speed was impossibly hard.

Would you like to try it out if I can get my hands on the tab again?

CHECK THIS OUT (from my sig)

http://www.ultimate-guitar.com/lessons/guitar_techniques/string_skipping.html
Last edited by technical death at Feb 1, 2013,
Andy Pollow
Registered User
Join date: Nov 2012
44 IQ
#7
When playing this sort of lick very fast, my pick will clip the low E string as I move to pick the A string. I don't have issues at slower speeds. I know the answer is just more practice, but it be nice to hear advice from someone who faced this same problem and found a successful way to overcome it. Danke!


Pull up Stryker, pull up Stryker. Your commin in too low.

Alternate is hard to learn.
cdgraves
Registered User
Join date: Jan 2013
43 IQ
#8
warm up:


e|-------------------x----
B|---------------x--------
G|-----------x------------
D|-------x----------------
A|---x--------------------
E|-x---x---x---x---x---x--


then back down

And again starting on the A string


e|-------------------x----
B|---------------x--------
G|-----------x------------
D|-------x----------------
A|-x---x---x---x---x---x--
E|---x--------------------


then on D, and so forth

Do them with each X being a quarter note, two 8th notes, a triplet, and then 4 16th notes. When you do the quarters and triplets, each string change will be in the opposite direction.

If you haven't done any strict alternate picking exercises before, start no faster than 60 bpm and make sure you can alternate pick those big skips before moving on.
Last edited by cdgraves at Feb 1, 2013,
)v(egaFan90
donkey chains......
Join date: Jul 2010
764 IQ
#9
Quote by cdgraves


And again starting on the A string


e|-------------------x----
B|---------------x--------
G|-----------x------------
D|-------x----------------
A|-x---x---x---x---x---x--
E|---x--------------------


then on D, and so forth

Do them with each X being a quarter note, two 8th notes, a triplet, and then 4 16th notes. When you do the quarters and triplets, each string change will be in the opposite direction.

If you haven't done any strick alternate picking exercises before, start no faster than 60 bpm and make sure you can alternate pick those big skips before moving on.


ooh that's a good exercise! thanks
People don't really go to heaven when they die. They're taken to a special place and burned - Sherlock Holmes


Your authority is not recognized in Fort Kickass!

It's not like bullshit, more like poetry.
Anon17
Registered User
Join date: Nov 2009
295 IQ
#10
Freepower has some amazing exercises for this kind of problem. Remember to start slow and play these with good economy of motion (small movements) and as little tension as possible.

In particular, this one: www.youtube.com/watch?v=pOsvZdvVndo

Try playing this for about twenty minutes a day or something, five minutes at a time (unless you start to tense up in which case rest and shake your arms until you've relaxed again). Make sure to play it starting on a downstroke and on an upstroke so you can develop both your inside and outside picking (read the technique sticky to learn about all these terms).

I can honestly credit a lot of my picking technique development to playing Freepower's exercises (especially this one), they're such an efficient way to improve your technique meaning more time to actually play music instead of exercises.
DarkShot08
Registered User
Join date: Apr 2012
81 IQ
#11
Quote by )v(egaFan90



A   -------------0-1-2-3--------------
E   ---0-1-2-3------------------------



When playing this sort of lick very fast, my pick will clip the low E string as I move to pick the A string. I don't have issues at slower speeds. I know the answer is just more practice, but it be nice to hear advice from someone who faced this same problem and found a successful way to overcome it. Danke!


Start with an upstroke on the string that has 4 notes, that way you'll be hitting on a downstroke as you change to the string below and as a result the transition will be a lot smoother. The rule of thumb (that I use at least) when I'm picking fast and I need to change to the string below is this,

If the number of notes on the string is odd, start with a downstroke.
If the number of notes on the string is even, start with an upstroke.

The same for when you want to change to the string above

If the number of notes on the string is odd, start with an upstroke
If the number of notes on the string is even, start with a downstroke.
Freepower
v It's Back! :D
Join date: Feb 2004
3,277 IQ
#12
You're going to have to enlighten me here, you say "crossing against the direction of picking" but in your example normally you will be moving from the E string to the A string with a downstroke, which in my mind is "in the direction of the picking".

What exactly are you doing in terms of pickstrokes in your example?

I can honestly credit a lot of my picking technique development to playing Freepower's exercises (especially this one), they're such an efficient way to improve your technique meaning more time to actually play music instead of exercises.




The two most relevant ones for the OP are this one for finding weaknesses - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dFlX54OoSsA&list=SP8285311F648D6999&index=13

and this one for generally testing the limits of your string crossing abilities -

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pOsvZdvVndo&list=SP8285311F648D6999&index=3
)v(egaFan90
donkey chains......
Join date: Jul 2010
764 IQ
#13
Quote by Freepower
You're going to have to enlighten me here, you say "crossing against the direction of picking" but in your example normally you will be moving from the E string to the A string with a downstroke, which in my mind is "in the direction of the picking".

What exactly are you doing in terms of pickstrokes in your example?



In my example, I would be doing a downstroke, upstroke, downstroke, and upstroke on the low e string. The last upstroke is moving away from the next note which is on the a string so my next motion must then cross over the low e string to get to the a string. Does that make sense? To contrast, if i started with an upstroke my last strum on the low e string would be towards the a string so my pick would not need to cross over the e string again.


I'll check out your lessons Freepower!
People don't really go to heaven when they die. They're taken to a special place and burned - Sherlock Holmes


Your authority is not recognized in Fort Kickass!

It's not like bullshit, more like poetry.
Last edited by )v(egaFan90 at Feb 2, 2013,
DarkShot08
Registered User
Join date: Apr 2012
81 IQ
#14
This

Quote by DarkShot08

If the number of notes on the string is odd, start with a downstroke.
If the number of notes on the string is even, start with an upstroke.

The same for when you want to change to the string above

If the number of notes on the string is odd, start with an upstroke
If the number of notes on the string is even, start with a downstroke.
Freepower
v It's Back! :D
Join date: Feb 2004
3,277 IQ
#15
Cool, so what you're having trouble with, most people call "inside picking". John Petrucci wrote a nice exercise for that in Rock Discipline. If JP can struggle with it you can too.
cdgraves
Registered User
Join date: Jan 2013
43 IQ
#16
It's "inside picking" if you're moving to a lower pitch string.
Zaphod_Beeblebr
Shallow and pedantic.
Join date: Apr 2006
1,670 IQ
#17
Quote by cdgraves
It's "inside picking" if you're moving to a lower pitch string.


No, inside picking is specifically the movement that happens either when you're going from a downstroke on a higher string to an upstroke on a lower string or when you're going from an upstroke on a lower string to a downstroke on a higher string. These two motions:

e|------    -----
b|-----     -----
g|---7-     -7---
d|-5---  OR ---5-
a|-----     -----
e|-----     -----

---U-D-     -D-U-



Also:

DarkShot08:

Too prescriptive dude, nowhere near flexible enough. I can think of several situations where that just won't work out without seriously messing with either strict alternate or normal economy picking.
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Vicious_Turtle
UG Member
Join date: Jul 2010
3,030 IQ
#18
i have this problem too, but its only when i have to down stroke again, i have been using a metronome for a long ass time and it seems to be helping slowly. really one of the only things thats holding me back for what im trying to do right now. i can downpick decent. gallop. and alternate in time fast enough on one strin. but if i have to go to another string. im allllll f***** up
Andy Pollow
Registered User
Join date: Nov 2012
44 IQ
#19
Ive read that alot of people think inside is harder than outside - even Steve Morse! The best alternate picker on this planet. I have the opposite problem because for most of my life Ive used a mixture of inside and economy - directional picking. So I have to work harder on outside. Its best if you always use equal amounts of both from when you start playin guitar. Like 3 note per string scales...
Freepower
v It's Back! :D
Join date: Feb 2004
3,277 IQ
#20
^ whichever one you practice more you'll be better at. Paul Gilbert and Petrucci really prefer outside, Greg Howe really prefers inside.

I used to prefer inside, practiced a ton, found outside easier after practice... now I'm back to finding inside easier.
Vicious_Turtle
UG Member
Join date: Jul 2010
3,030 IQ
#21
hetfield seems to be able to do all picking with ease. makes me angry im not as lucky