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#81
I certainly don't respect people who gloss over the mutilation of thousands of generations of babies.

I would go as far as to say such people probably don't deserve any respect at all.
#82
Quote by TooktheAtrain
And the best medium for freedom is cancerous tumours, right?

what you don't seem to understand is that children born in Iraq will have TUMOURS GROWING OUT OF THEIR ****ING FACES for the rest of humanity's foreseeable future. (half life of at least 700 million years)


(Invalid img)
Those are the rates for birth defects in Basra.

That is very upsetting. However, without proper healthcare the children and future children will never be able to get help. And there isn't very good access to healthcare, and the healthcare isn't of very good quality. And in order for that to change the system needs to be changed.
Quote by Dreadnought
I agree with you that it's the military's job to kill, destroy, and ruin. It's our shameful purpose. However, in my opinion that is all a military should be used for; it should never be used to "nation-build" or anything of the sort. It sends mixed messages, confounds its more important purpose (kill and cause mayhem), and weakens it overall.

Are you/were you in the military? If you were, Thank you for your service.

I have to disagree with the idea that the military should only be used for destruction. Of course, that is its main purpose. But although a sword is crafted to kill, the result of the killing is the reason that the killing was done in the first place. Whether or not a people go to war for defense, land, oil, to stop a dictator, to help an ally, or w.e. the reason is rarely to simply destroy. It is an instrument for a much larger goal.
#83
I suppose those babies were doing just fine while Saddam Hussein was using mustard gas to exterminate Kurds, and using all forms of murder, torture, and intimidation to suppress political dissent.

Clearly Basra, Iraq was one happy rainbow valley before the United States stepped in.
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Quote by airbrendie
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#84
Quote by VanTheKraut
I suppose those babies were doing just fine while Saddam Hussein was using mustard gas to exterminate Kurds, and using all forms of murder, torture, and intimidation to suppress political dissent.

Clearly Basra, Iraq was one happy rainbow valley before the United States stepped in.


Of course not. However, the use of DU rounds has compounded the situation to the point where Basra will be a cancer breeding shithole for the rest of time (from a human perspective)

Ever hear the aphorism 'two wrongs don't make a right'?
#85
Quote by macashmack
Are you/were you in the military? If you were, Thank you for your service.


I still am, and thanks.

I have to disagree with the idea that the military should only be used for destruction. Of course, that is its main purpose. But although a sword is crafted to kill, the result of the killing is the reason that the killing was done in the first place. Whether or not a people go to war for defense, land, oil, to stop a dictator, to help an ally, or w.e. the reason is rarely to simply destroy. It is an instrument for a much larger goal.


If a nation wants to endeavor in such a thing, it needs to use an entity separate from it's military to accomplish that goal. The same organization that is invading a country, destroying its infrastructure, and hunting its hooligans cannot be the one that is attempting to "nation-build."

It's sloppy. It's convoluted. It's two-faced. It's shitty politics. It doesn't work.
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Last edited by Dreadnought at Feb 4, 2013,
#86
Quote by macashmack
Yea that's true (in response to the first part).
I can see why people would have a problem with police officers in some cases, but whenever I ask someone who hates cops "Do you want to live in a world where there aren't police officers?" They can't give me a straight (or sensible) answer. It's either "Yes" (which is obviously ridiculous) or "No, but i don't want them to abuse their power", which is always going to happen. Psychopaths or just assholes are always going to gravitate to professions that give them power. But you can't judge the majority by actions of the minority.


I may not be able to judge the majority by the actions of the minority, but I can be suspicious of them until I'm certain they're not the arseholes.

As for soldiers, I don't understand hate for them at all. They are one of the few professions that I respect over any other. Maybe my emotions skews my opinion of it a little bit, but anyone who is willing to risk their life for my country is a hero in my book.
None of this is directed at you, it's just kinda rants about stuff in response to your post.


Because the other side's soldiers are willing to do the same. So either it's a pointless affair with unnecessary death or one side is 'good' and the other 'bad'. In which case the soldiers themselves aren't what's to be respected, it's the cause and their willingness to stand up for it that I respect.

However that only applies if you believe in the cause.

I don't hate soldiers. And I'd be grateful for their service if/when it's needed. But I don't buy into the bullshit that they're all heroes.
Rhythm in Jump. Dancing Close to You.

Quote by element4433
Yeah. people, like Lemoninfluence, are hypocrites and should have all their opinions invalidated from here on out.
#87
Quote by VanTheKraut
What the **** is with all the trolling? The two guys killed were heroes, not just for what they did while deployed but for what they did when they got back. Excluding service members, No one on this board has even come close to proving that they are half the man these guys were. Myself included.

RIP.


I've made like 1 post in the last 2 months and this needed to be said.


This is extremely well said. Considering both these guys were volunteering their time to help people with PTSD for no other reason than to help, I think everyone seems to be missing the point as to why this sucks so much and is tragic.
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#88
Quote by Dreadnought
I still am, and thanks.

I have to disagree with the idea that the military should only be used for destruction. Of course, that is its main purpose. But although a sword is crafted to kill, the result of the killing is the reason that the killing was done in the first place. Whether or not a people go to war for defense, land, oil, to stop a dictator, to help an ally, or w.e. the reason is rarely to simply destroy. It is an instrument for a much larger goal.


If a nation wants to endeavor in such a thing, it needs to use an entity separate from it's military to accomplish that goal. The same organization that is invading a country, destroying its infrastructure, and hunting its hooligans cannot be the one that is attempting to "nation-build."

It's sloppy. It's convoluted. It's two-faced. It's shitty politics. It doesn't work.
So far i am being swayed, but may I ask, what do you think such an entity would be that would do that?
Also, if you don't mind my inquiring, what position are you in the military?
#89
Quote by Lemoninfluence
Paramedics and firefighters get respect from the non-**** section of society, usually.

It's only really police and soldiers that people have a problem with. And given their tasks and the history surrounding the roles, can you blame people? Ron Paul Revolution!


edited for accuracy
“Just to sum up: I would do various things very quickly.” - Donald Trump
#90
Quote by bradulator
edited for accuracy



Because you have to be a nutjob libertarian to see police abuse and military atrocities.
Rhythm in Jump. Dancing Close to You.

Quote by element4433
Yeah. people, like Lemoninfluence, are hypocrites and should have all their opinions invalidated from here on out.
#91
Quote by macashmack

So far i am being swayed, but may I ask, what do you think such an entity would be that would do that?


If I had my way, none.

Also, if you don't mind my inquiring, what position are you in the military?


THE BEST
My God, it's full of stars!
#92
Oh shit. I had a friend that used to go to that range on weekends.
and I was like a mile away when this happened.
Last edited by ihartfood at Feb 4, 2013,
#93
Quote by Dreadnought
If I had my way, none.

Well, say you couldn't have your way? And the military would still need to go in first to remove the current system.
THE BEST

So.... DEVGRU? Im sorry if what I asked was too personal.
#94
Quote by VanTheKraut
Or you can recognize that that person, regardless of what politicians and leaders do, has made the sacrifice that is a life in the military, has willingly gone into a situation where he may be injured, scarred mentally or physically, maimed, or killed, in service to his country and the citizens thereof. And then, having recognized the sacrifices that that guy made, you could thank and respect him.

My cousin AJ will never be able to lift his right arm above his head or lift more than 60 pounds again because of injuries he sustained in Afganistan when his convoy was ambushed. He volunteered the week after 9/11, his military service shattered his marriage, he suffers from flashbacks a few times a month, in service of his country. Just an anecdote, but I don't believe you're a rational thinking person if you don't recognize and respect such sacrifice.

Nah man, they signed up for it, so they obviously deserve every mental and physical injury they receive! Don't be stupid, the world would be better if no country had soldiers!
This ends now, eat the goddamn beans!
#95
Quote by Skynyrd890
Nah man, they signed up for it, so they obviously deserve every mental and physical injury they receive! Don't be stupid, the world would be better if no country had soldiers!

Are you being for real? I will answer assuming you are:
Don't be stupid and think that a country can survive without soldiers/ a military.
#96
Quote by macashmack
Are you being for real?

No, I'm not.... lol
This ends now, eat the goddamn beans!
#98
Quote by magnus_maximus
That isn't the point he's making.

Regardless, had the people of Iraq wanted freedom as badly as we reckon, surely they would have revolted? Unless you were a Kurd (Kurds get treated like shit everywhere though, but they're not Jews so nobody gives a shit).

My understanding is that most of the killing was inflicted on Kurds and much of Iraq didn't care. I could be wrong though.

EDIT: I'm not sure what I was getting at here and this is a pretty awful post...

The Baathist Party's stance on any form of political dissent is pretty well documented. The fact that you haven't bothered to read about it doesn't mean it didn't happen. Iraqi Olympic athletes are one high profile example, athletes who performed unsatisfactorily were tortured by Saddam's son, Ude. Anyone who spoke out against the Baathist party would just disappear, try google.
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Quote by airbrendie
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#99
Quote by macashmack
It is our concern. It is every human beings concern. The United States is the only country with the balls to actually do something about it.
And i could care less about our foreign policy. We were not killing innocent people. We launched no attacks. They attacked us first, the fact that you sympathize with religious zealots over thousand of innocent lives everywhere in the world speaks a lot about your character and morals as a person.
I don't think war is a good thing, but I do think it is necessary. This is a case where I think that it is necessary. And if you want to deny that then you should look at the world again and see what's going on in it.


Amen brother.

It is my opinion that the free world has a responsibility to free the rest of the world from tyranny and evil ideologies. It's so easy to say those things sitting in a heated or air conditioned home with a latte in one hand on the computer. Totally different if you're half starving in Afghanistan and can't get an education because the Taliban won't allow it or they'll ****in saw your head off and put it on the internet.

For the military members here, just wanted to say thank you for your service and all you do for us. God knows I'm too big of a pussy to go out and do what you guys do.

Thank you.
#100
Quote by pugachev
Amen brother.

It is my opinion that the free world has a responsibility to free the rest of the world from tyranny and evil ideologies.



How do you define those, then?
#101
"I'm a better husband and father than I was a killer," he told Time. "I'm pretty comfortable with not having to kill anyone."
- Chris Kyle
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Quote by airbrendie
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#102
Quote by TooktheAtrain
How do you define those, then?

Generally killing, raping, torturing are the types of shit we tend to go after. Not a lot of gray area there.
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Quote by airbrendie
Hey guys in the last 3 weeks I ****ed all the girls in this picture, what do you think?

#103
Quote by pugachev
Amen brother.

It is my opinion that the free world has a responsibility to free the rest of the world from tyranny and evil ideologies. It's so easy to say those things sitting in a heated or air conditioned home with a latte in one hand on the computer. Totally different if you're half starving in Afghanistan and can't get an education because the Taliban won't allow it or they'll ****in saw your head off and put it on the internet.

For the military members here, just wanted to say thank you for your service and all you do for us. God knows I'm too big of a pussy to go out and do what you guys do.

Thank you.

This post made me throw up in my mouth a little bit.
Quote by EpiExplorer
I swear this guy in particular writes for the telegraph or some shit.

Quote by Fat Lard
My name can actually be traced back to as early as the 1990s, it means "fuck off data miner"
#104
Quote by TooktheAtrain
How do you define those, then?


Most are easy to identify. Subjecting women like you would cattle, depriving girls of education, murdering all those who don't believe as you do, sawing people's heads off, car bombing entire markets of totally innocent mothers, fathers, children, and just forcing a 12th century culture on to a population are just a few hints you've found one.
#105
Quote by ErikLensherr
This post made me throw up in my mouth a little bit.

Its ok, I dont care. You're just another ungrateful twat who enjoys the nice things the military folk afford us.
#106
Quote by pugachev
Its ok, I dont care. You're just another ungrateful twat who enjoys the nice things the military folk afford us.

I'm very grateful to the veterans who last defended our freedom in the war of 1812.
Quote by EpiExplorer
I swear this guy in particular writes for the telegraph or some shit.

Quote by Fat Lard
My name can actually be traced back to as early as the 1990s, it means "fuck off data miner"
#107
Quote by VanTheKraut
Generally killing, raping, torturing are the types of shit we tend to go after. Not a lot of gray area there.


What about testing syphilis on your own population and blocking attempts to recieve treatment?

Because the US Govt has had to apologise for that.

The US can't enforce morality because it has a pretty shit record in moral behaviour and is therefore incompetent to do so.
#108
Quote by pugachev
Most are easy to identify. Subjecting women like you would cattle, depriving girls of education, murdering all those who don't believe as you do, sawing people's heads off, car bombing entire markets of totally innocent mothers, fathers, children, and just forcing a 12th century culture on to a population are just a few hints you've found one.


I totally agree with you. The whole "we should leave them alone because its their problem" argument people make is absurd. If we had just left Hitler "alone" I'm sure that would have worked out great for everyone? Human rights should be given to all, not just those who were lucky enough to be born in the right places. Its the 21st century for **** sakes.
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#109
Quote by macashmack
I am planning on enlisting, I agree with you it isn't right to do that.


The mission is to eliminant the dictators, train the military and establish a democracy, and then they can take care of themselves. As much as i hate to admit it, the United States won against Great Britain with the help of France. An oppressed people need help to stop being oppressed.



You weren't being oppressed
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#110
Quote by TooktheAtrain
What about testing syphilis on your own population and blocking attempts to recieve treatment?

Because the US Govt has had to apologise for that.

The US can't enforce morality because it has a pretty shit record in moral behaviour and is therefore incompetent to do so.


The US Government isn't some stagnant entity, it's a revolving door of people and beliefs, like any government. Just because they wronged in the past doesn't mean they shouldn't or couldn't do good today. If anything, they SHOULD do good deeds because of it. Nazi Germany unleashed the biggest hell the world has ever seen, are we to say Germany has no right either to try and better the world? If we apply these rules to every government, none would be "competent to do so".
#111
exactly- so unless you believe military action against the US during the time they performed syphilis experiments on their on population is justified, you are applying a double standard.
Last edited by TooktheAtrain at Feb 5, 2013,
#112
Quote by pugachev
The US Government isn't some stagnant entity, it's a revolving door of people and beliefs, like any government. Just because they wronged in the past doesn't mean they shouldn't or couldn't do good today. If anything, they SHOULD do good deeds because of it. Nazi Germany unleashed the biggest hell the world has ever seen, are we to say Germany has no right either to try and better the world? If we apply these rules to every government, none would be "competent to do so".

Are you really positing that invading Iraq on false pretenses with no exit strategy and killing over 100,000 civilians in the process constitutes a "good deed"? lol
Quote by EpiExplorer
I swear this guy in particular writes for the telegraph or some shit.

Quote by Fat Lard
My name can actually be traced back to as early as the 1990s, it means "fuck off data miner"
#113
You aren't really putting the syphilis thing, Hitler, and Islamic extremism in the same categories are you? Couple hundred people getting syphilis vs 40 million dead?

I really don't think starting thermo nuclear war with the US is justified because of that experiment. A nation of free people are more than capable of handling that situation. While Europe's liberation was not possible without outside intervention.
Last edited by pugachev at Feb 5, 2013,
#114
Quote by ErikLensherr
Are you really positing that invading Iraq on false pretenses with no exit strategy and killing over 100,000 civilians in the process constitutes a "good deed"? lol


No
#115
So this dude was really great at math and decided to use that skill to kill people. Yep, sorry, no sympathy gained from me. If you were renowned for how well you could kill people then I won't cry about you being gone. Call it nationalism all you want but it's still murder, plain and simple.
#116
Iraq was bullshit anyway, you can't say "dey git WMDs!!!" and then claim humanitarianism when you don't find any.
#117
Alright, so I apparently posted this in the wrong time and wrong discussion.


On the topic of intervention: Look at Mali, America! Yep, France got it right in that you want the locals to LIKE you and you generally don't want to kill half a million of them! Good, good, you get it! Now try again in the world's asshole.
#118
Quote by ali.guitarkid7
So this dude was really great at math and decided to use that skill to kill people. Yep, sorry, no sympathy gained from me. If you were renowned for how well you could kill people then I won't cry about you being gone. Call it nationalism all you want but it's still murder, plain and simple.



Your gf killed her rapist. SHE'S A MURDERER!!!!!!!
#119
Quote by JDawg
Your gf killed her rapist. SHE'S A MURDERER!!!!!!!


She is, despite how justified it may be.
Although I wouldn't say that's justified.
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