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willT08
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#1
So guys, tonight at 7pm a vote will be held on Equal Marriage in Commons. This would obviously be a huge step for the UK and it's LGBT community. The bill has fervent opposition from the Tory party which threatens it's success.

A debate is going on in Commons right now which you can watch here:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-21325702

The bill allows Churches and Ministers within chruches to refuse carrying out gay marriages if they so choose, but would finally allow other religious institutions to do so (Quakers having already said they wish to).

Anybody watching the debate? Know if their MP is voting for or against, or perhaps are against their MP?
ErikLensherr
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#2
Huh, I figured you guys would've had equal marriage already.
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Weaponized
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#3
Most of the UK is Christian ^
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Johnny_Ibanez
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#4


Bloody crusty old Tories, with their monocles and crumpets. Better get the fuck out of the way, bitches.
willT08
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#6
Quote by Weaponized
Most of the UK is Christian ^

I'm not sure how true this is. Studies in to how people fill out the census show that the amount of people that are actively religious is MUCH lower than that purported by the census.
Jackal58
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#7
Anybody that believes there is equality in marriage has never been married.


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#1 synth
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#8
Quote by Weaponized
Most of the UK is Christian ^

For the record Christian does not equal anti-gay or anti-gay marriage. In America at least there is no direct correlation. It is a cultural stigma in a culture that has been shaped by Christianity but that doesn't necessarily mean that Christianity is the wave that is carrying that stigma (even if some fundamentalist Christians identify as against gay marriage and are branded by the media as those who represent all who believe in god, christ, or some sort of greater faith).
WCPhils
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#9
Quote by ErikLensherr
Huh, I figured you guys would've had equal marriage already.

me too the way they talk about us
___

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gabcd86
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#10
Quote by willT08
I'm not sure how true this is. Studies in to how people fill out the census show that the amount of people that are actively religious is MUCH lower than that purported by the census.


And even then, I think the last census showed a real collapse of people even ticking the box on the form in the past decade.

I do hope that this goes through despite the collection of Tory ****wits opposing it. It bothers me that I can't easily call the US a backward land because we're no better in this regard.
lolmnt
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#11
Good luck britfags
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willT08
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#12
Quote by #1 synth
For the record Christian does not equal anti-gay or anti-gay marriage. In America at least there is no direct correlation. It is a cultural stigma in a culture that has been shaped by Christianity but that doesn't necessarily mean that Christianity is the wave that is carrying that stigma (even if some fundamentalist Christians identify as against gay marriage and are branded by the media as those who represent all who believe in god, christ, or some sort of greater faith).

Sorry to say this, but I've been watching this debate for 2 hours now and have not seen a single person stand up against the bill without referencing their faith.

Granted plenty of Christians have stood up in support, but it seems to be the only grounds on which people are opposing it.
rockingamer2
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#13
"It is abundantly plain, to most of us on this side of the House, that this bill... will end up before the European Court of Human Rights, and that people of faith will find that faith being trampled upon, and that to us is intolerable", said Sir Roger Gale, the Conservative MP for Thanet North.

I'm really getting tired of these whiny Christians. They're the kid who hogs the slide and complains when people realize he doesn't own it and decide to kick him off.
^^The above is a Cryptic Metaphor^^


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Skynyrd890
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#14
Quote by willT08
The bill allows Churches and Ministers within chruches to refuse carrying out gay marriages if they so choose, but would finally allow other religious institutions to do so.


I don't know why there's any debate, then.
This ends now, eat the goddamn beans!
RickyThomson
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#15
It will be a huge step for LGBT. A step that isn't needed. There shouldn't have to be a bill or a law telling specific groups of people whether they can marry or not. Marriage has been around long before christianity and most organised religion.

If you don't like same-sex marriage, then it's simple, don't go out with someone the same gender as you... that way you won't end up in a same-sex marriage. I don't like religion, but i don't tell people they can't practice it. Let people decide what they want to do for themselves.

There's alot of arguments about religion and LGBT being a "sin", but isn't it fact that eating shellfish is a bigger sin than homosexuality? I think shellfish is mentioned several more times than anything related to LGBT in the bible. I'm pretty sure alot of christians who are opposing same-sex marriage are eating shellfish as i type.

What happened to separation of church and state? Are we stepping backwards... again?
Last edited by RickyThomson at Feb 5, 2013,
Johnny_Ibanez
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#16
I just had a quick look at the live feed from the House of Commons. It's at about 20% capacity. Empty seats everywhere. Where the hell are they all?
willT08
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#17
Quote by Skynyrd890
I don't know why there's any debate, then.

Some have bought up concerns that this would fall down soon after the bill is passed.

Others have bought up concerns like "What if a teacher refuses to teach marriage as a union between any two people because they don't agree with it. Will they be removed?". To which I say yes, if you can't do your job then of course you get fired.

EDIT: ^^^ Johnny, the debate's been going for many hours now and MP's have been coming in and out constantly.

Right now a guy is using the "Why does it need to be called marriage?" line of thinking. Imagine if the government decided black people could legally marry but it wouldn't be called 'marriage'. Why should that be the reality for gays?
Last edited by willT08 at Feb 5, 2013,
Trowzaa
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#18
Quote by willT08
I'm not sure how true this is. Studies in to how people fill out the census show that the amount of people that are actively religious is MUCH lower than that purported by the census.


Latest figures I can find is the 2011 census, 59% of the UK is Christian.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/datablog/2012/dec/11/census-2011-religion-race-education#religion

Of course, Christian doesn't equal being against gay marriage.
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macashmack
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#19
The UK doesn't have gay marriage? Well, you guys suck more than America! Get at me!
gabcd86
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#20
Quote by Johnny_Ibanez
I just had a quick look at the live feed from the House of Commons. It's at about 20% capacity. Empty seats everywhere. Where the hell are they all?


Debate's been running all day, maybe everyone has just popped in to say their piece without wasting the day listening to all the other tossers?
lncognito
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Join date: Dec 2011
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#22
Quote by willT08
Sorry to say this, but I've been watching this debate for 2 hours now and have not seen a single person stand up against the bill without referencing their faith.

Granted plenty of Christians have stood up in support, but it seems to be the only grounds on which people are opposing it.
Well, they can't exactly go up there and say "I'm a bigoted idiot, and want to prevent people from happiness with whatever arbitrary measures I can".
Quote by maggot9779
This is making me angry.
What exactly is making you angry? A bit dangerously vague in this thread.
Last edited by lncognito at Feb 5, 2013,
Trowzaa
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#23
Quote by macashmack
The UK doesn't have gay marriage? Well, you guys suck more than America! Get at me!


We're not as against it as you seem to be though
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willT08
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#24
Quote by lncognito
Well, they can't exactly go up there and say "I'm a bigoted idiot, and want to prevent people from happiness whatever arbitrary reasons I can".

Well one guy simply said "I am voting against the bill because I'm a Conservative"...

Not sure what you may want to equate the word Conservative with after that
RickyThomson
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#25
Quote by Trowzaa
Latest figures I can find is the 2011 census, 59% of the UK is Christian.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/datablog/2012/dec/11/census-2011-religion-race-education#religion

Of course, Christian doesn't equal being against gay marriage.


Well, 59% as a statistic probably comes down to children being christened at birth and simply labeled as one. I don't think the belief is in the majority. I wouldn't say 59% were actual "practicing" christians.
lolmnt
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#26
Quote by Trowzaa
We're not as against it as you seem to be though

With our president who supports it and everything
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Skynyrd890
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#28
Quote by willT08
Some have bought up concerns that this would fall down soon after the bill is passed.

Others have bought up concerns like "What if a teacher refuses to teach marriage as a union between any two people because they don't agree with it. Will they be removed?". To which I say yes, if you can't do your job then of course you get fired.


Wait, are you saying churches still won't marry gays, or that it'll be removed from any legislation?

And do schools there really "teach" marriage?
This ends now, eat the goddamn beans!
willT08
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#29
Quote by RickyThomson
Well, 59% as a statistic probably comes down to children being christened at birth and simply labeled as one. I don't think the belief is in the majority. I wouldn't say 59% were actual "practicing" christians.

Studies have shown that people check 'Christian' simply because they 'think they're a good person'. The census is not useful for gauging the number of practicing anythings, but especially Christians in the UK

EDIT: ^^^ Sorry, I'm not following the first point, could you restate it for me? What will be removed?

As for the second, I'm sure in Citizenship classes marriage is discussed.
Last edited by willT08 at Feb 5, 2013,
gabcd86
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#30
Quote by maggot9779
What's the big deal with polygamy?


It's weird, conservatives acts like it's the big scary monster that will be unleashed by allowing gay marriage, but not only is it a stupid argument, the fact that that is seen as beyond the pale is unfortunate in itself.
lncognito
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#31
Quote by willT08
Well one guy simply said "I am voting against the bill because I'm a Conservative"...

Not sure what you may want to equate the word Conservative with after that
>___>

It's a bit too easy to do precisely what you imply, though, but he does - inadvertently - raise an interesting point against conservatism. What value is there to simply preserve something because it is and has been, when it is detrimental to the well-being of society - and how responsible is an ideology whose main tenet is the pursuit of this?
macashmack
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#32
I don't see a problem with polygamy or polyandry. Aint no skin off my ass
Trowzaa
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#33
Quote by element4433
With our president who supports it and everything


I forgot that the leader of the country is representative of the entire population as a whole, my mistake.
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gabcd86
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#34
Quote by magnus_maximus
God I hate Conservatives.


Yeah. It annoys me that they were allowed to be the ones to introduce this bill.
lncognito
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#35
Quote by gabcd86
It's weird, conservatives acts like it's the big scary monster that will be unleashed by allowing gay marriage, but not only is it a stupid argument, the fact that that is seen as beyond the pale is unfortunate in itself.
But what is the deal with polygamy, though? Except for that it has traditionally been an one-sided extension of the patriarchy that suppressed women, I don't see why several people should be prohibited from marrying.

Edited for precision.
Last edited by lncognito at Feb 5, 2013,
lolmnt
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#36
Quote by Trowzaa
I forgot that the leader of the country is representative of the entire population as a whole, my mistake.

Well, kind of. Cuz a majority of people voted for him based on his views and policies.
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i kinda wish we all had a penis and vagina instead of buttholes

i mean no offense to buttholes and poop or anything

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Trowzaa
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#37
Quote by element4433
Well, kind of. Cuz a majority of people voted for him based on his views and policies.


Majority being roughly 51%. Hardly representative of the whole.
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gabcd86
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#38
Quote by lncognito
But what is the deal with polygamy, though? Except for that it has traditionally been an one-sided extension of the patriarchy that suppressed women, I don't see why several people shouldn't be allowed to marry if their religion allows it.


Yeah, exactly. If it's a consenting arrangement by several people, then I have no ****s to give.
ErikLensherr
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#39
Quote by Trowzaa
I forgot that the leader of the country is representative of the entire population as a whole, my mistake.

Well he is democratically elected. But your confusion's understandable what with your queen and all
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I swear this guy in particular writes for the telegraph or some shit.

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lolmnt
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#40
Quote by Trowzaa
Majority being roughly 51%. Hardly representative of the whole.

Still a majority.
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Quote by Bob_Sacamano
i kinda wish we all had a penis and vagina instead of buttholes

i mean no offense to buttholes and poop or anything

Rest in Peace, Troy Davis and Trayvon Martin and Jordan Davis and Eric Garner and Mike Brown