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mattmakaha
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#1
Everyone knows about the Holocaust, but there is something called the "forgotten holocaust" or the Rape of Nanjing (alternate spelling is Nanking). The Nanjing massacre occurred during roughly the same time period (historically speaking) as the Holocaust (the Nanking massacre occurred in 1937). What the Japanese soldiers did to the civilian population was unbelievable, to me it was even worse than what the Nazis did to the Jews, Gypsies etc. I mean you had Japanese soldiers pouring sulfuric acid on a man's head to see what happens, raping 80 year old ladies and 1 year old babies, decapitation contests with a katana, slicing open pregnant women and putting the fetus on the tip of the bayonet and parading it around the street. And after the war, these soldiers had no remorse. I remember reading about a japanese lady who in the 1950s remembers overhearing in a bar a couple of former japanese soldiers bragging about killing chinese in Nanjing and talking about how far they could stick their arm inside a woman's genitals. Unbelievable....

Even Nazis themselves were appalled by the violence. There were a few Nazi officials residing in the diplomatic safe zone in Nanjing who witnessed what happened and chronicled it....

The Chinese population did nothing to provoke those japanese soldiers. Why was there so much hate against the chinese? It's not like how someone would hurt your wife or family member, and you want revenge. No....these civilians did nothing to the japanese soldiers.

And these kinds of behaviors continue today. A couple of months ago, I heard this on the radio on the BBC World Service: they were interviewing a lady from an African country, I forget which one, I think it might have been the Republic of Congo. But anyway, she survived an ordeal where some thugs beat her up, and cut off one of her feet, threw her foot in the fire, then took it out of the fire and told one of her kids to eat her dismembered foot, and when her child refused, they killed that child. I don't even know how a person would even think of doing something like that.....

So my question is: what is the nature of human cruelty?

Are we naturally evil?

Is it proof that we evolved from animals?

Because believe me, in war zones humans, especially the males, can damn sure act like animals. It's still happening in this world today in war zones, and I think it's utterly disgusting.

What do you think about the nature of human cruelty?
T00DEEPBLUE
Boba FRETT
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#4
Questions are very vague.
Quote by mattmakaha

So my question is: what is the nature of human cruelty?

That it's cruel. Too vague of a question.
Quote by mattmakaha

Are we naturally evil?

Yes. As evil as anything else in nature. Although one needs to point out that there is no such thing as objective evil. We only label certain behaviors as evil so that we can function as a society.
Quote by mattmakaha

Is it proof that we evolved from animals?

The question is irrelevant. Evolution is irrefutably factual regardless.
Quote by mattmakaha

What do you think about the nature of human cruelty?

That any cruelty is wrong from my personal perception of what's cruel. Question is too vague to give a compelling answer.
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Last edited by T00DEEPBLUE at Feb 9, 2013,
Joshua Garcia
Joshole
Join date: Jun 2009
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#5
Yeah I'm far to lazy to read all that, so I'll just answer the questions.

Quote by mattmakaha
So my question is: what is the nature of human cruelty?

Probably came from hate. Hate probably coming from jealousy as far back as caveman times. I dunno.

Are we naturally evil?

No.

Is it proof that we evolved from animals?

No. There's a fine line between everyday nature and mental problems.

What do you think about the nature of human cruelty?

Everything I said above.
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mattmakaha
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#7
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#8
Quote by Setsuna F. Seiei
I wanted to know why our world is so terminally distorted. Where did that distortion come from? Why there are people who are unconsciously evil? Why people don't know that their evil hurts others. Why is humanity an existence which only conflicts with itself? Why are there people who rule and those who are ruled? Why do we wound each other? In spite of all this, why do people go on living like they do?
OP is Setsuna.
T00DEEPBLUE
Boba FRETT
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#10
Quote by mattmakaha

And these kinds of behaviors continue today.

It doesn't happen nearly as often as it used to relative to population though.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ramBFRt1Uzk
Regarding the furry fandom from the man himself:
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Last edited by T00DEEPBLUE at Feb 9, 2013,
WCPhils
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#11
Oh sorry, that was my bad
___

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mattmakaha
Registered User
Join date: Oct 2012
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#13
Quote by Joshua Garcia

Probably came from hate. Hate probably coming from jealousy as far back as caveman times.


But what does jealousy have to do with torturing 80 year old ladies and 1 year old babies like the japanese were doing to the chinese?
Joshua Garcia
Joshole
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#14
Quote by mattmakaha
But what does jealousy have to do with torturing 80 year old ladies and 1 year old babies like the japanese were doing to the chinese?

That's not the point I was making. I'm saying hate probably all started with jealousy. Probably other things too, but that's what immediately comes to mind when thinking of life before civilization came to be. Then that hate gave others reasons to hate other things. Then hate, hate, more hate, a side of hate, and hate-potatoes.
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macashmack
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#15
Because people like to **** with other people. So tell me; are you going to be a bitch and just flinch and cry at this behavior, or are you going to pick up arms and do something about it?


I dont mean this to you personally, but this is the general answer that i give to people that ask these kinds of questions.
halfj06
Registered User
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#16
Human violence probably started when adam asked for a sammich and eve got sassy
mattmakaha
Registered User
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#17
Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
It doesn't happen nearly as often as it used to relative to population though.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ramBFRt1Uzk


yes, that is true, there are a lot more people today than just a few centuries ago....

But you know, it's not just the violence in the rape of Nanjing that is so disturbing, let me explain a little bit more first, bear with me:

When I found out about the Nanjing massacare, at first I wanted to disown my own Japanese heritage (well I'm a quarter Japanese, half Chinese, and a quarter native Hawaiian), because I was so disgusted. And I understood why until today, some Chinese still hate the Japanese. Currently there is a dispute over some islands off the japanese coast, but several years ago, there were widespread protests across China (and South Korea--comfort women etc. but that is a whole other story), because in Japan, in school text books, all references to the Rape of Nanking were removed, as if it never happened.

I believe that in some countries in Europe, Holocaust denial is a crime punishable by imprisonment. But there is nothing like that in Japan. Some japanese deny that the Nanjing massacre even happened. But if that were the case, why did Nazi officials and other foreign officials in Nanjing during the massacre see these things with their own eyes, and also photos from japanese soldiers were later confiscated which showed the atrocities? Why did people from all across the Pacific islands that were under Japanese occupation talk about the atrocities of the Imperial Japanese army?

During their occupation of parts of China, the japanese had experimented with biological weapons, dropping them on chinese villages, they also had a medical unit that did vivisection (cutting open live human beings without anesthesia for medical study)--just incredibly disturbing stuff.

Only a tiny handful of the top japanese officers were punished, but everyone else went scot free, which brings me to my next point....

And this is the most disturbing thing of all.....is that supposed war hero General Douglas McCarthur brokered a deal with the japanese where the U.S. and it's allies would not seek prosecution of war crimes if the japanese would share information with the U.S. about scientific/medical information that was learned by the japanese when the japanese used biological weapons on chinese villages. At that point, when I found out about all of this, my heart sank and I felt like jumping off a bridge in disgust.

The U.S. and it's allies were going to make a mockery of justice, just to glean info about biological weapons tests the japanese carried out on the chinese. If that is not the definition of disgusting, then I don't know what is.....

So in summary, maybe it's not just the violence that is so disturbing, but the whole of human nature (like what the U.S. didn't do to japanese war criminals)

...One comment I wanted to add about the video that you posted: if the Cuban Missile Crisis in 1962 ended differently/badly and the U.S. and the Soviet Union had a full exchange of their entire arsenal of nuclear weapons, the ENTIRE human race (and 95% of all living things on the planet too) would have come to an end in the ensuing nuclear winter (as Carl Sagan had calculated), so that would skew those graphs big time...
Last edited by mattmakaha at Feb 10, 2013,
Rawshik
Homophobic Racist
Join date: Oct 2010
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#18
I may just get flamed a little bit too much if I honestly replied to those questions. Which is ironic. Cause this thread is about cruelty.
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Weaponized
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#19
Is this thread really about cruelty, it looks like it's about Japan
iwannabesedated
Out There
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#20
Quote by neidnarb11890
If you don't know about the Rape of Nanking you are dumb/went to a shitty school, sorry for you.

No one really cares about it though 'cuz China are stupid Commies who are destroying the environment & threatening America's world dominance.

In contrast, people care about the Holocaust because it happened in First World White Person Land & history is generally taught from a Eurocentric perspective. (Not because the Jews own the media; sorry, dumby.)


They never taught it at my school.

In fact, I highly doubt most people here in the US have ever heard of it.
me+yourmom=69
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#22
Some people are just dicks and when normal people are around them they act like dicks too
catempire
yawn...
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#24
I only learned about it as a brief part of WWII history, which wasn't taught in lots of detail. I mean, there isn't that much of a reason to put too much emphasis on it anyway - there are plenty of examples of similar conduct in war.

/can of worms
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me+yourmom=69
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#25
yes but did the atom bomb rape thousands women THAT were clearly asking for it?
catempire
yawn...
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#26
Quote by me+yourmom=69
yes but did the atom bomb rape thousands women THAT were clearly asking for it?

Sorry, are you saying the women were asking to be raped or that the civilians were asking to be bombed?
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Holy Crap.

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me+yourmom=69
Banned
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#27
Quote by catempire
Sorry, are you saying the women were asking to be raped or that the civilians were asking to be bombed?


I was saying both.
Zoot Allures
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#28
Quote by catempire
I only learned about it as a brief part of WWII history, which wasn't taught in lots of detail. I mean, there isn't that much of a reason to put too much emphasis on it anyway - there are plenty of examples of similar conduct in war.

/can of worms

Interesting, where to draw the line, i don't think piloting the plane that dropped the bomb on Hiroshima is really similar to torturing someone to death, even if both have the same outcome. Both can be considered immoral, whence come cruelty?

You can make a good argument for it though.
Todd Hart
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#29
Weed.
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#30
ingesting bath salts
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JohnnyGenzale
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#31
thirst for power. power over your fellow man.
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the bartender
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#32
agression (which leads to cruelty) is one of the most basic instinctual habits of all. I don't know when it originated, but it must have been long before anything that even remotely resembled a human being came along.
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SMH07
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#33
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#34
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JohnnyGenzale
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#35
Marilyn Manson
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T00DEEPBLUE
Boba FRETT
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#36
Quote by mattmakaha
yes, that is true, there are a lot more people today than just a few centuries ago....

There is also only a tiny fraction of the violence. Sure, the first half of the 20th century was the bloodiest in human history when you look at the absolute number of deaths, but the premise of that video also demonstrates that the rate of population growth FAR exceeds the growth in violence, so it is all a moot point.
Quote by mattmakaha

But you know, it's not just the violence in the rape of Nanjing that is so disturbing, let me explain a little bit more first, bear with me:

When I found out about the Nanjing massacare, at first I wanted to disown my own Japanese heritage (well I'm a quarter Japanese, half Chinese, and a quarter native Hawaiian), because I was so disgusted. And I understood why until today, some Chinese still hate the Japanese. Currently there is a dispute over some islands off the japanese coast, but several years ago, there were widespread protests across China (and South Korea--comfort women etc. but that is a whole other story), because in Japan, in school text books, all references to the Rape of Nanking were removed, as if it never happened.

It's funny you say this because i never learned about this in school either.
Quote by mattmakaha

I believe that in some countries in Europe, Holocaust denial is a crime punishable by imprisonment. But there is nothing like that in Japan. Some japanese deny that the Nanjing massacre even happened. But if that were the case, why did Nazi officials and other foreign officials in Nanjing during the massacre see these things with their own eyes, and also photos from japanese soldiers were later confiscated which showed the atrocities? Why did people from all across the Pacific islands that were under Japanese occupation talk about the atrocities of the Imperial Japanese army?

Because they obviously don't want a war between the Chinese and Japanese to occur. Look at it from their point of view. It may be wrong to keep such information away from the public, but it's information that could cause genocides from organized hate groups, which would only make the situation even worse.
Quote by mattmakaha

So in summary, maybe it's not just the violence that is so disturbing, but the whole of human nature (like what the U.S. didn't do to japanese war criminals)

The thing you need to realize is that evil is just a part of nature. There is evil in everything and everyone, we are just the first known species to recognize it for what it is, and lament it's horrors.

I'm stating this more from a philosophical standpoint, but people also need to recognize that evil is not only a force for destruction but also a force for creation. An action or occurrence that may be considered evil from one perspective can easily be considered good from another viewpoint. That's why we have different moralities.

The lioness may kill the gazelle, which is an evil action from the perspective of the gazelle, but the gazelle is needed for the lioness to feed herself and to feed her cubs. It's not so much an evil action from the perspective of the lioness, it's just what needs to be done to survive.

So here's another question i'd like to ask: What is good without evil?
Quote by mattmakaha

...One comment I wanted to add about the video that you posted: if the Cuban Missile Crisis in 1962 ended differently/badly and the U.S. and the Soviet Union had a full exchange of their entire arsenal of nuclear weapons, the ENTIRE human race (and 95% of all living things on the planet too) would have come to an end in the ensuing nuclear winter (as Carl Sagan had calculated), so that would skew those graphs big time...

But the fact that it never happened is testament as to how far our society has come. Although we have found ways to kill people more effectively, we have also learned to be more responsible with such weapons of war.
Regarding the furry fandom from the man himself:
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CrAzY-RiLeY
not french
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#37
curiosity is the root of all evil.
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Philip_pepper
Banned
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#38
I blame evolution.

In order to survive as a species, we had to have some sort of ability to be "evil" and violent. That trait still exists today and, obviously, it isn't going to go away any time soon.
Dreadnought
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#39
I have no idea. It really is a shame though.
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