Page 2 of 4
#41
I suppose it's pretty simple, from an evolutionary point of view. The baddest mofo gets the bitches.

Quote by CrAzY-RiLeY
curiosity is the root of all evil.

..?

Please elaborate.
LOOK

Call me Neutral.
Quote by da_
I wonder if you get more out put if you wire a battery to your penis.
#42
The above post about evolution is incomplete but may be on the right track. Here's my notions:

First, we are innately capable of violence. This is a survival mechanism. All of our primate relatives and ancestors are quite pugnacious when threatened, and quite capable too. Chimps are able to do terrific violence.
In addition, early human characteristics include the idea of territoriality, of protectiveness, and of being fearful of/violent to the "other", similar small groups of competing humans.
Remember the opening scenes of "2001"?
This is pretty much hard-wired into human nature. Of course, there are a lot of "good" things too, our tendencies towards altruism, cooperation, and so forth.
Still, we have this baggage from our evolutionary heritage.
It served our primitive ancestors well. They lived in small groups of hunter-gatherers and that was fine.
When civilization started up, suddenly these things were amplified. Instead of rarely encountering rival groups and mostly scaring them off with threat displays, we were in constant contact with other groups of people, people with whom you were competing for resources and room and so forth.
Also, if you build farms and cities, now territoriality becomes writ large. It's one thing to think of a certain stretch of savannah as "yours"... You can easily move to another if necessary.
But if you build a city and plant fields and all... Then that's "yours" in no uncertain terms and you'll defend it viciously.
As well, as it expands, you'll think that maybe the next city over is a threat.

Most all early war was between small villages and settlements over resources. The "other" becomes dehumanized. They are not as good as our group... They are not even human.
Anything becomes permissible.
Add religion into this mix.... Not only are the "others" different from you, they don't worship the same gods. Your gods get angry....
Human history has a very long record not only of interpersonal violence over anger and jealousy and rivalry and all that, but also institutional violence excused by religion and racism and all that and motivated more deeply by competition and deep-seated human emotional responses.

Finally, "the capacity of human beings for self-delusion is apparently infinite". We can rationalize almost anything. We excuse the most atrocious behavior to ourselves.
#43
Quote by NeutralFan
I suppose it's pretty simple, from an evolutionary point of view. The baddest mofo gets the bitches.


..?

Please elaborate.


the constant need to fulfill curiosity is what we call will, but it has come to a point where we all do things simply to see what happens, and also because we can.
Quote by WantsLesPaul
You are a sick man, Riley.
#44
I would say it's just cos like people have inner shit don't they and if their inner shits too piled up then it spews out a bit and becomes irl shit cos people need an outlet and shit

Any outward act, negative or positive, is a symptom of an inner stimuli. People have that inner shit cos life is suffering int it. Making someone else suffer kind of lessens the blow over how ****ing hopelessly low control we have over life, but it could also be some weird vicarious shit, cos everyone likes watching videos of fat people falling over.

Quote by halfj06
Human violence probably started when adam asked for a sammich and eve got sassy

hehe
Last edited by KiLLSWiTCH-KnoT at Feb 10, 2013,
#45
Quote by Philip_pepper
I blame evolution.

In order to survive as a species, we had to have some sort of ability to be "evil" and violent. That trait still exists today and, obviously, it isn't going to go away any time soon.

I don't see how being cruel is a trait that would beneficial to evolution. It's more than the japanese and some african tribes are an extra cruel culture within mankind.

Inb4 people come up with very cruel things the Europeans have done.
Quote by Carmel
I can't believe you are whoring yourself out like that.

ಠ_ಠ
#46
Quote by Philip_pepper
I blame evolution.

In order to survive as a species, we had to have some sort of ability to be "evil" and violent. That trait still exists today and, obviously, it isn't going to go away any time soon.

Altruism is the key evolutionary trait that creates population booms and security. It also creates an environment for cruel figures to stay alive and prosper as well, feeding off of the altruistic system. No society has ever survived by ignoring and attacking infants because they don't contribute capital or useful skills towards the society.
#47
Please, animals has no cruelty compared to humans, its all but natural survival for them. mind what you say.

human cruelty though, I have yet to understand the source. But nowadays its not from the source anymore, it is from wrong teaching.
#48
Quote by rak411
Please, animals has no cruelty compared to humans, its all but natural survival for them. mind what you say.

human cruelty though, I have yet to understand the source. But nowadays its not from the source anymore, it is from wrong teaching.
What you're saying is so incredibly wrong that I don't even know how to begin explaining why.
You who build these altars now

To sacrifice these children
You must not do it anymore
Last edited by the bartender at Feb 10, 2013,
#49
Quote by CrAzY-RiLeY
the constant need to fulfill curiosity is what we call will, but it has come to a point where we all do things simply to see what happens, and also because we can.

So people do incredibly cruel things just because they want to see what it looks like? Sorry, but that just doesn't make a lot of sense to me.
LOOK

Call me Neutral.
Quote by da_
I wonder if you get more out put if you wire a battery to your penis.
#50
Proof we evolved from animals? While I don't doubt evolution, nor do I deny that we humans are also animals (a word we invented to describe conscious lifeforms, which we categorized into different species and "races" which are also just man-made constructs), I believe a certain level of intelligence is required to be capable of true evil. You have to know what you're doing is wrong.
Last edited by MrDo0m at Feb 11, 2013,
#51
Quote by the bartender
What you're saying is so incredibly wrong that I don't even know how to begin explaining why.


When you have time to collect your thoughts, I'd like for you to explain why, if you don't mind.
Last edited by MrDo0m at Feb 11, 2013,
#54
Quote by catempire
I only learned about it as a brief part of WWII history, which wasn't taught in lots of detail. I mean, there isn't that much of a reason to put too much emphasis on it anyway - there are plenty of examples of similar conduct in war.

/can of worms


Someone did some serious landscaping!
#55
Quote by neidnarb11890
>Ohio
>Oklahoma

No surprises here.

Eat me I learned about the Rape of Nanking
Quote by element4433
Be subtle with it. Don't like molest him.

And cup his balls.


Quote by blake1221
If there's anything to take away from this thread, anything at all, it's to always cup the balls.
#57
Quote by Neo Evil11
I don't see how being cruel is a trait that would beneficial to evolution..



Yeah, I was thinking the same thing....
#59
Quote by Neo Evil11
I don't see how being cruel is a trait that would beneficial to evolution. It's more than the japanese and some african tribes are an extra cruel culture within mankind.

Inb4 people come up with very cruel things the Europeans have done.


Maybe not cruelty as a trait in itself but I could definitely see how many necessary aspects of it could provide an evolutionary advantage. For example the very sharp limits on groups/experiences which evoke empathy. I think evolution probably makes it a possibility than actively selects for it but that's really just guesswork.
Quote by Nosferatu Man

T-shirts are a sign of degeneration and decline.
#60
Wow I never heard about Nanking...can't believe something so atrocious like that was allowed to happen...
I'm not saying not to trust the internet, but there's an alarming discrepancy between the number of iPads I've won & the number of iPads I own.
#61
Quote by NeutralFan
So people do incredibly cruel things just because they want to see what it looks like? Sorry, but that just doesn't make a lot of sense to me.


never heard the expression " destruction is the greatest form of creation"?

its not too see what it looks like, its to see the consequences that it creates.
Quote by WantsLesPaul
You are a sick man, Riley.
#62
While it's impossible to date the origins of human cruelty, we could possibly date the beginnings of our modern definitions of human cruelty to the 'Code of Hammurabi'.
Hammurabi was a king of Babylon from 1792 BC to 1750 BC and the 'Code of Hammurabi' is the first known code of morality in recorded history. Of course, such codes could be much older and could have been passed on oraly before first being written down by Hammurabi. (writing had only existed for about 2000 years before then and was mainly used for keeping agriculatural records up to that point) It's plausable that these types of moral code developed sometime during the Neolithic Revolution (10,000–5,000 BC, which saw the invention and development of perminantly settled agriculture and the later development of civilisation as a result of agriculture and which started in the area of Mesopotamia, of which Babylon was a part of) as a reaction to civilisation.

Put it this way, it makes sense that the massive change that civilisation brought to previously seperate nomadic bands of hunter/gatherers would also bring with it new rules on morality, which would seem to be crucial to a civilised society of lots of people all living in much closer quarters to each other than ever before.
Last edited by SlackerBabbath at Feb 12, 2013,
#63
Quote by Philip_pepper
I blame evolution.

In order to survive as a species, we had to have some sort of ability to be "evil" and violent. That trait still exists today and, obviously, it isn't going to go away any time soon.


It's the other way round, imo. We needed to develop morality to form organised societies. 'Evil' usually refers to a lack of morality, not something in its own right.

Psychopaths, for example, are often regarded as evil. However that's an inappropriate term because they are incapable of moral understanding and thus can not be moral agents.
Psychopaths are not evil as such, they are not necessarily predisposed to acts we might call 'evil', they are just not inhibited by empathy and a strong sense of morality. This often leads them to act in self-interest to the detriment of others.

TL;DR Morality is not the default state, what may be termed 'evil' is.
Last edited by TooktheAtrain at Feb 12, 2013,
#65
Quote by CrAzY-RiLeY
never heard the expression " destruction is the greatest form of creation"?

its not too see what it looks like, its to see the consequences that it creates.

I see what you mean, but I'm not sure I agree. Surely a better reason for humanity to be capable of extreme cruelty is a simple social/evolutionary/socio-evolutionary/whatever-the-hell-the-term-is one? Being capable of disabling you empathy and ruthlessly killing potential rival mates or tribes ought to be as benifical to survival (if not more) as having that empathy in the first place, no?
LOOK

Call me Neutral.
Quote by da_
I wonder if you get more out put if you wire a battery to your penis.
#66
Quote by neidnarb11890
If you don't know about the Rape of Nanking you are dumb/went to a shitty school, sorry for you.

.


I didn't know about the Rape of Nanking until fairly recently....

I went to a private Catholic school in Hawaii, St. Louis high school.....oh well.....
#67
Quote by Philip_pepper
I blame evolution.

In order to survive as a species, we had to have some sort of ability to be "evil" and violent. That trait still exists today and, obviously, it isn't going to go away any time soon.


Speaking of evolution, after thinking about it more, perhaps it would be better to be a crocodile which is incapable of showing compassion, it kills without batting an eye, no remorse whatsoever....

I guess those bad things that people do bother me because I care. But perhaps it is better not to care. After all, as I learned on animal planet, modern crocodiles have been basically unchanged for the last 100 million years or so and survived that long because their design is so effective. So if they can get by without any feelings or compassion, why couldn't human beings.

Maybe compassion is just excess baggage.....
#68
Quote by mattmakaha
Speaking of evolution, after thinking about it more, perhaps it would be better to be a crocodile which is incapable of showing compassion, it kills without batting an eye, no remorse whatsoever....

I guess those bad things that people do bother me because I care. But perhaps it is better not to care. After all, as I learned on animal planet, modern crocodiles have been basically unchanged for the last 100 million years or so and survived that long because their design is so effective. So if they can get by without any feelings or compassion, why couldn't human beings.

But can crocodiles love?

</3
#69
Quote by rak411
Please, animals has no cruelty compared to humans, its all but natural survival for them. mind what you say.

human cruelty though, I have yet to understand the source. But nowadays its not from the source anymore, it is from wrong teaching.

I have seen people torture animals to death. Sure, they ate them in the end, but they spent almost an hour slowly ripping them, throwing them around and letting them bleed out.

Would you consider that cruel?


I live with two of those people: they are my cats. Is it still cruelty?

It's not so much the act that differs between animals and humans, it's how we judge them.
#70
Quote by Djaydjay
I have seen people torture animals to death. Sure, they ate them in the end, but they spent almost an hour slowly ripping them, throwing them around and letting them bleed out.

Would you consider that cruel?


I live with two of those people: they are my cats. Is it still cruelty?


I'd consider you to be someone who falsified the evidence when you first talked about your cats as 'people', but you are correct. We first have to consider that someone has to be intelligent enough to have a concept of right and wrong before we can define them as 'cruel'.
#71
Quote by mattmakaha
Speaking of evolution, after thinking about it more, perhaps it would be better to be a crocodile which is incapable of showing compassion, it kills without batting an eye, no remorse whatsoever....

I guess those bad things that people do bother me because I care. But perhaps it is better not to care. After all, as I learned on animal planet, modern crocodiles have been basically unchanged for the last 100 million years or so and survived that long because their design is so effective. So if they can get by without any feelings or compassion, why couldn't human beings.

Maybe compassion is just excess baggage.....



Because they don't have societies. Societies would collapse if everyone became psychopathic.
#72
Quote by devourke
But can crocodiles love?

</3


Nope

But they do cry.......NOT!!
That's why they call it crocodile tears.....
#73
I happened to come across info about this Japanese diplomat by accident, but it's a freakin amazing story. Everyone knows about Oskar Shindler who saved many Jewish people during WW2. But chances are you haven't heard about Chiune Sugihara, a japanese diplomat working in Lithuania during WW2 who saved thousands of Jews. He's been called the Japanese Schindler. It's just a mind blowing story:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chiune_Sugihara

The reason why I'm posting this here, is to balance out post #1 in this thread where I talk about the horrible things Japanese soldiers did during WW2 to civilians. At the same time that was going on, this great japanese man was doing righteous things. I think it goes to show you that the beatings that the Japanese soldiers got from their officers contributed to the atrocities that they commited....
Last edited by mattmakaha at Jun 22, 2013,
#74
There was a movie about the horrors of Nanjing. I CBA to look it up.

But I think that cruelty is connected with some androgens, and more specifically testosterone.

Weeaboos = 0
Normal People = 1


It's all because the Jews control the media and they get people to think that they've suffered more than any other group of people.
-The Crimson Fucker, aka PonyFan #376121
Last edited by metal4eva_22 at Jun 22, 2013,
#75
Quote by metal4eva_22
There was a movie about the horrors of Nanjing. I CBA to look it up.

But I think that cruelty is connected with some androgens, and more specifically testosterone.

Weeaboos = 0
Normal People = 1


It's all because the Jews control the media and they get people to think that they've suffered more than any other group of people.


What in the world are you talking about?
#78
Quote by mattmakaha

So my question is: what is the nature of human cruelty?

Are we naturally evil?

Is it proof that we evolved from animals?

japan

only the japanese

the japanese havent evolved yet

#80
I found this way more cruel than all the shit we learn in History class:

-The Crimson Fucker, aka PonyFan #376121
Last edited by metal4eva_22 at Jun 22, 2013,