#1
Greetings,

I have a dilemma regarding my next purchase in my pursuit of tone. I know the old, small, high gain tube amp threads are getting boring, but my case is slightly different.
I already own a small tube amp, it's a Fender Vibro Champ 77' silverface. So the old model.
A 7 watt all tube, one channel, beautiful sounding amp. But it only really does cleans, slightly overdriven if pushed really hard. Since this amp was a heritage gift I wont sell it.
But I play mostly high gain stuff, most kinds of metal, some shred stuff, you know...
So I've been running a GT-8 straight into it, (it has no FX loop) which is pretty ok, the fact that the amp is all tube definitley makes it the GT-8 sound much warmer. But playing dynamics are basically non existent with it, none of this beautiful, breaking up overdrive either.

So forever I've been wondering if to buy another amp which can satisfy those needs, I'm leaning mostly to the 6505+ 112, I know it can get the gain I need from it, and I already have a nice amp for cleans so. I am mostly a home player, but would like to have something I could maybe gig with, considering I am looking for a band.

But I'm also considering maybe running a very good pedal in front of the amp to give it the gain and overdrive I need, it would be cheaper than a new amp, so my budget is quite high considering a pedal. I heard a demo of that carl-martin Plexitone for example, and I love the sound of that. It doesnt need to be extremely high-gain, I have an EMG equipped guitar. I do love smooth, high gain, saturated lead sounds, and I play alot of high gain metal, but also really love that overdriven marshall esque sound for leads. So I still need some versatality.

Sorry I'm rambling on! Just wanted to explain my situation.
Have you guys got any suggestions? Would it just be better to buy a new amp?
Thanks in advance!

As for providing info:
Budget: about 600 euros
Genre: mostly metal, shred
New or used: Probably new, smaller choice in 2nd hand market
Home or gig: Mostly home, gigs possibly someday
Closest city: Stockholm
Current gear: Jackson soloist, Fender 77' vibro champ, Boss Gt-8
Last edited by Stijnson at Feb 11, 2013,
#2
Orange Dark Terror Head will suit you well, i will probably get one, costs about 500 Euros NEW, its a 15Watt / switchable 7 Watt Tube Amp with very high gain suitable for metal, but has very nice cleans as well. Check out some demos on youtube to get an idea

It has a FX Loop for your GT-8 as well, usually all Orange Terror do not have a FX Loop, so its a great deal
Last edited by c0rn1x at Feb 11, 2013,
#4
Thanks for the replies guys!
c0rn1x, i have contemplated them too. But i think i'd rather go with either a combo or a good pedal as i mentioned. Getting the Orange would imply me to also buy a cab. Ofcourse having the gt-8 already would also make it nice to buy an amp with Fx loop so i can keep using that for effects.

That pedal looks good! ill check some sound clips. Thanx. So would tube driven pedals work better than SS pedals together with my amp?
#5
Try getting an eq pedal. If you boost the treble end of the signal and use a good high gain distortion it should sound good. I play a 68 Sunn Sorado through a 4x12 cabinet and can get any tone i want if i tweak my effects properly. Originally the Sorado was a bass head but i am using it for guitar so you would expect creamy thick sound. I can get that by dialing back the treble control but for my uses an eq and proper distortion does a perfectly fine job for that high gain stuff. When was the last time it was serviced. It could also be an issue of lossy signal due to bad tubes. Are you losing volume or anything like that?
~My Gear~
68 Sunn Sorado
Acoustic 4x12
89 Epiphone LP Honeyburst
Boss ME-70

Fender Dreadnought Acoustic
Ibanez RG350DX
Blackstar HT-5R
Orange CR35LDX
Vox Tonelab ST
#6
just get the 6505
I'm an idiot and I accidentally clicked the "Remove all subscriptions" button. If it seems like I'm ignoring you, I'm not, I'm just no longer subscribed to the thread. If you quote me or do the @user thing at me, hopefully it'll notify me through my notifications and I'll get back to you.
#8
Laney lc15, laney lv series-tube emiluting, SS with a tone bone/blackstar tube dist pedals.
#9
Quote by festivalinhell
Try getting an eq pedal. If you boost the treble end of the signal and use a good high gain distortion it should sound good. I play a 68 Sunn Sorado through a 4x12 cabinet and can get any tone i want if i tweak my effects properly. Originally the Sorado was a bass head but i am using it for guitar so you would expect creamy thick sound. I can get that by dialing back the treble control but for my uses an eq and proper distortion does a perfectly fine job for that high gain stuff. When was the last time it was serviced. It could also be an issue of lossy signal due to bad tubes. Are you losing volume or anything like that?


He said it's one-channel amp, it doesn't have an overdrive channel.
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#10
Quote by siddiq4321
Laney lc15, laney lv series-tube emiluting, SS with a tone bone/blackstar tube dist pedals.

er....
don't do that.
Quote by kangaxxter
Tone is in the fingers.

What you really need is a new amp.

(Anything I missed?)



Quote by Robbgnarly
I have been hearing about MG amps lately. I have heard good about them, but only a few times have they been talked about here.

#11
^ +1

Quote by Blktiger0
+311


I'm an idiot and I accidentally clicked the "Remove all subscriptions" button. If it seems like I'm ignoring you, I'm not, I'm just no longer subscribed to the thread. If you quote me or do the @user thing at me, hopefully it'll notify me through my notifications and I'll get back to you.
#12
Assuming you're looking for a small amp (the title of this thread), I wouldn't recommend the 6505+.

I don't really know what's available in Britain in terms of high gain and small tube amps.

:/
#13
Thanks for the replies guys. The 6505 does seem to be the most logical choice ofcourse, it's and upgrade in many ways, distortion/gain wise, bigger speaker, more volume, has an fx loop for my gt-8, although I remember reading the fx loop was a little noisy?
But I've been youtubing all night mostly listening to these wampler pedals, and damn they do sound good though. Anyone have real life experience with these (eg. the Triple Wreck?)

It's still like half the cost of the amp. And currently being slightly poor that becomes important.
I'm just getting sick of the digital sound, I dont know if anyone has ever had that feeling where you've been hearing your own tone for so long you start to think it's good, then when you hear other 'real' tone you realize your digital tone sucks!

Rstrat: the amp doesnt have to be small, preferably combo though. But my amp is small :P Oh and I live in Sweden, selection of high gain amps in shops here is quite minimal.

Good ol' GAS, fun and confusing!
#14
Quote by Stijnson
I'm just getting sick of the digital sound, I dont know if anyone has ever had that feeling where you've been hearing your own tone for so long you start to think it's good, then when you hear other 'real' tone you realize your digital tone sucks!

Welcome to the world of analog purists, dude. Enjoy your trip.
Quote by ChemicalFire
You get my first ever lolstack






The image in my head is just too funny for words at this point


Aw yeah.
#15
Quote by TheNameOfNoone
Welcome to the world of analog purists cork-sniffing, self indulgent placebo-seeking tone snobs, dude. Enjoy your trip.


FTFY.
“Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge.”
Charles Darwin
#16
Quote by Arby911
FTFY.


Can you tell me the name of any digital processing station that sounds better than 6505 or Twin Reverb.
You can't? Then stop acting like we are wrong.
You can? Then, what are you waiting for?
Quote by ChemicalFire
You get my first ever lolstack






The image in my head is just too funny for words at this point


Aw yeah.
#17
Quote by c0rn1x
Orange Dark Terror Head will suit you well, i will probably get one, costs about 500 Euros NEW, its a 15Watt / switchable 7 Watt Tube Amp with very high gain suitable for metal, but has very nice cleans as well. Check out some demos on youtube to get an idea

It has a FX Loop for your GT-8 as well, usually all Orange Terror do not have a FX Loop, so its a great deal

+1 tried the dark terror myself. It made me wish I had 700 USD on me at the time. It is awesome
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#18
Quote by TheNameOfNoone
Can you tell me the name of any digital processing station that sounds better than 6505 or Twin Reverb.
You can't? Then stop acting like we are wrong.
You can? Then, what are you waiting for?


Well, "Better" is subjective, but in a blind test against an Axe FXII, how many could tell the difference? Could you? Are you sure?

How about a Kemper Profiling amp?

Again, are you sure?

Because people that have owned both say no, especially against the Kemper.

"Digital sucks" is a kneejerk reaction that isn't always the case, and is becoming less the case every day.
“Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge.”
Charles Darwin
#19
Quote by RStrat
Assuming you're looking for a small amp (the title of this thread), I wouldn't recommend the 6505+.

I don't really know what's available in Britain in terms of high gain and small tube amps.

:/


assuming he's looking for a high gain amp, though (not the title, but in the OP) i wouldn't really be looking at low wattage amps, either. you're massively narrowing down your options for debatable (at best) gains.
I'm an idiot and I accidentally clicked the "Remove all subscriptions" button. If it seems like I'm ignoring you, I'm not, I'm just no longer subscribed to the thread. If you quote me or do the @user thing at me, hopefully it'll notify me through my notifications and I'll get back to you.
#20
Quote by Arby911
Well, "Better" is subjective, but in a blind test against an Axe FXII, how many could tell the difference? Could you? Are you sure?

How about a Kemper Profiling amp?

Again, are you sure?

Because people that have owned both say no, especially against the Kemper.

"Digital sucks" is a kneejerk reaction that isn't always the case, and is becoming less the case every day.


Come on now.... I'm pretty sure that it's pretty safe to say that the average Joe isn't looking at or considering a Kemper or a Fractal. There's no need to be pedantic...


@TS if you're planning on playing with other people, I'd honestly throw the thought of a dirt pedal through your amp out the window. A lot of the "oomph" of a beastly metal tone comes from the beastly power section in an amp specifically designed for that - IE, the exact opposite of your amp's design. A little 7W won't cut it at all compared to, just for instance, a 6505. The amp designed for metal will tear the dirt pedal into a little Fender to shreds.
Spin 'round carousel when your horse isn't screwed in.

My band:
Fractured Instinct
(For fans of Death/Groove/Prog Metal)

Ibanez RGA42E
Ibanez S420
LTD H-301
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Peavey Predator USA
Douglas Grendel 725
Line 6 Pod HD500X
Last edited by Offworld92 at Feb 12, 2013,
#21
Quote by Offworld92
@TS if you're planning on playing with other people, I'd honestly throw the thought of a dirt pedal through your amp out the window. A lot of the "oomph" of a beastly metal tone comes from the beastly power section in an amp specifically designed for that - IE, the exact opposite of your amp's design. A little 7W won't cut it at all compared to, just for instance, a 6505. The amp designed for metal will tear the dirt pedal into a little Fender to shreds.


Thanks man, kind of the best answer possible. It's what i've been thinking all this time too, but the pedals would be a good cheaper, but most likely temporary, solution. And as I'm getting slightly sick of my current tone you automatically start thinking of quicker solutions.
But from an investment kind of standpoint it would be better to save up a bit more and just buy the 6505+ 112, much more of an upgrade too, bigger speaker, pure valve high gain tone, fx-loop for the GT-8 etc.
But I will admit, some of those pedals still sound great and I would probably still like to try one some day. The Wamplers an Bogners mostly.
#22
Instead of implementing a stopgap, I suggest you go straight for an amp to solve your woes. A high gain pedal isn't going to give you that amp sound.

While I agree that a low watt amp isn't always going to give you the best results for metal, there is something to be said about losing low-end girth when you dial your master volume too low.

Get the amp that will suit your purposes.

IMO, most amps, do sound better with the power tubes cooking a little. Dial back your MV too much, and a lot of amps just sound weak and wheezy.

The Dark Terror definitely merits consideration.

Also look at
1. Orange #4.
2. Blackstar HT20
3. Laney Ironheart 15
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#23
Quote by Offworld92
Come on now.... I'm pretty sure that it's pretty safe to say that the average Joe isn't looking at or considering a Kemper or a Fractal. There's no need to be pedantic...



Pedantic my ass, you're arbitrarily setting boundaries that didn't exist in the initial claim.

Not to mention that more than a few folks here have owned or currently own one or both pieces of gear, neither of which are more expensive than a good quality guitar.

If budget is really your concern, I wonder how many people could hear the difference in a blind test in a live venue if the digital unit in question was a Line 6 HD500?

Quit arguing with me dammit, I'm right and I KNOW IT!!
“Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge.”
Charles Darwin
Last edited by Arby911 at Feb 13, 2013,
#24
Quote by Arby911
Quit arguing with me dammit, I'm right and I KNOW IT!!


Who's the snob now?
Quote by ChemicalFire
You get my first ever lolstack






The image in my head is just too funny for words at this point


Aw yeah.
#25
Thanks guys.
I'm going to try and see it I can play the 6505+ 112 somewhere, also to test its low volume quality settings. If that at low volumes sounds as good as running a pedal in front of my amp...
It just seems like a better idea to like Ragingkitty said, skip the stopgap. Cheaper in the long run.

I also have virtually no way of trying something like the Bogner pedals of the Wamplers, they're just not available in stores here.

I've considered other low wattage amps, and the Blackstar seemed nice, but then I found out it's not all tube, and feels a bit like a lie, because they sure advertise it as all tube. The ht-20 also costs more then the 6505 112!

And when my finances dont turn out so positive, I checked the second hand market here, for 2000 swedish crowns (lets say 220 euros) I can buy a Peavey valveking and a bad-monkey, that shouldn't be far off sound wise, and probably sound much better then my Gt-8.
Last edited by Stijnson at Feb 14, 2013,
#26
yeah the valveking would do at a pinch but the 6505 will do exactly what you want if you can stretch (i've only tried the dearer USA-made ones, though, i'm assuming the 112 is broadly similar).
I'm an idiot and I accidentally clicked the "Remove all subscriptions" button. If it seems like I'm ignoring you, I'm not, I'm just no longer subscribed to the thread. If you quote me or do the @user thing at me, hopefully it'll notify me through my notifications and I'll get back to you.
#27
^They sound practically identical. The sound difference is likely the headroom change, which is highly subtle.

However, the effects loop has its share of issues. Usually, putting a better tube in the scoket that controls the loop (and one of the gain stages, too, I think? I know it's split between two jobs...) and one that's lower gain usually helps that problem a good deal. I would say throw a 5751 in that slot, or something like a 12AT7 or 12AU7. Go either JJ with any of the 12A?7's and get a JAN Phillips 5751 if you go that route. You should get one of those for the PI anyway.