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#1
Particularly the LP's in the $400-700 range?

What is the main difference between those and the Gibby LP's that are in the $600-1200 range?

Not an Epi or Gibson expert so any insight is appreciated.
#2
I have a few of them...and like 'em.

I wonder how many people rate them bad - and never owned one themselves....

I wonder how many Epis are rated bad - because they're fakes and the owner doesn't even know it...

I prefer a 500 Euro Epi over a 500 Euro Gibson

you get a high end Epi with Gibson pups and hardcase
or
a low end Gibson with sharp fretends, with a bad finish and a gigbag

#3
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#4
Somebody should really sticky a thread that lays out the differences between Epiphone Les Pauls and Gibson Les Pauls. Maybe do the same for MIM and MIA Fenders. Not that this isn't a good thread it's just that this question seems to come up almost weekly. I'd be willing to put such a thread together.
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#5
Quote by DylanHendrix
Somebody should really sticky a thread that lays out the differences between Epiphone Les Pauls and Gibson Les Pauls. Maybe do the same for MIM and MIA Fenders. Not that this isn't a good thread it's just that this question seems to come up almost weekly. I'd be willing to put such a thread together.

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#6
I've had a couple of Epis in the past and always liked them, but I've got to disagree with paruwi's comment about preferring a high-end Epi over a low end Gibson - as a general comment at least.

I've had a few Gibsons over the years and the best one I've ever had is the worn brown LP Studio I bought about a year ago. It's actually better than the LP Standard Ebony I had before it. Not sure why, to me the standard just didn't have the IT factor but this particular studio does.

And that's the trouble with Gibsons. Because they're all hand made, some are better than others for no real reason. With Epiphones, they may be mass produced in a factory somewhere, but they're consistently good. Gibsons are better 9/10 times, but you have to play one before buying it to make sure it really is the one you're going to fall in love with.

EDIT:
Quote by DylanHendrix
Somebody should really sticky a thread that lays out the differences between Epiphone Les Pauls and Gibson Les Pauls. Maybe do the same for MIM and MIA Fenders. Not that this isn't a good thread it's just that this question seems to come up almost weekly. I'd be willing to put such a thread together.

Someone did start this a while ago - there was a thread listing all Gibsons & Fenders throughout the range in price order, detailing what the features of each guitar was. Fairly sure it included Epiphone & Squier. It was sometime in the past year, if you dig deep enough you'll probably find it.

Gibson LP Traditional, LP Studio, SG Standard x2
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#7
I don't own one at the moment, so I can't consider myself a Epiphone player, but anyways. I believe that there is a general opinion, in which people think of all the "fake" guitar models pretty much the same and on no basis. That's a pity. And speaking of Epiphone's Les Pauls and their relation to the "original" Gibson's Les Paul, this is something completely different than it is with Squier's Strats and their relation to the "corresponding" Fender model. I However, I think that treating Epiphones as a middle range (in quality as well as in price) guitar is definitely an appropriate act. I've recently run into this article regarding the Epiphone's Les Paul that was considering just this, how they are underrated and so ...
#8
Quote by DylanHendrix
Somebody should really sticky a thread that lays out the differences between Epiphone Les Pauls and Gibson Les Pauls. Maybe do the same for MIM and MIA Fenders. Not that this isn't a good thread it's just that this question seems to come up almost weekly. I'd be willing to put such a thread together.


Is "Epiphone and Gibson" more like "Fender MIA and MIM" or more like "Fender MIA and Squier" ?
#9
Quote by AmirT
Is "Epiphone and Gibson" more like "Fender MIA and MIM" or more like "Fender MIA and Squier" ?


I think epiphone is really a combination of both MIM and squier. For example you have the Epiphone Les Paul special II which is $150 dollars, you won't find an MIM fender for that price, unless it's really beat up. Then you have the various Epiphone 60's tributes, '59 reissues, Slash appetite for destruction, etc. These guitars are around $700 dollars or more, often priced above MIM Fenders to a certain degree.
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#10
IIRC, Epi's have fake binding and maple veneer tops rather than real maple and binding like a Gibson does.

Epi's use generic electronics and pickups ( probably Chinese stuff) and Gibson uses CTS/Switchcraft and Gibson-brand pickups.

Epi uses cheap woods, Gibson uses good woods

Epi uses cheap hardware, Gibson uses better hardware

So is it worth the extra $1,500+ for a Gibson? Maybe, but that's why you should by a Tokai for $800 and blow them both out of the water

Also, the Gibson fakes are getting REALLY good in the last few years. Still a $300 guitar, but the quality is getting better and better.
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This is terrible advice. Even worse than the useless dry, sarcastic comment I made.

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#11
Quote by DylanHendrix
I think epiphone is really a combination of both MIM and squier. For example you have the Epiphone Les Paul special II which is $150 dollars, you won't find an MIM fender for that price, unless it's really beat up. Then you have the various Epiphone 60's tributes, '59 reissues, Slash appetite for destruction, etc. These guitars are around $700 dollars or more, often priced above MIM Fenders to a certain degree.


Wut? Like a conspiracy?

An Epiphone LP Special II is the LP shape counterpart to a Squier Bullets Strat shape, not a MiM.

I would put a LP Standard next to a MIM Strat and compare them as more or less equals, with the MiM preferable for quality.

I think Epiphone makes some decent guitars for their price range. Would I choose one over a Gibson? Shit no.
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Last edited by Mephaphil at Feb 16, 2013,
#12
Quote by Mephaphil
Wut? Like a conspiracy?

An Epiphone LP Special II is the LP shape counterpart to a Squier Bullets Strat shape, not a MiM.

I would put a LP Standard next to a MIM Strat and compare them as more or less equals, with the MiM preferable for quality.

I think Epiphone makes some decent guitars for their price range. Would I choose one over a Gibson? Shit no.


Let me ask this. If you have an Epi LP and a Gibson LP Studio side by side and the tone is negligible in comparison for those particular two instruments, does it make sense to fork over the extra cash to get the Gibson? Why?
#13
Epiphones use cheaper furniture grade woods, plastic nut, import pickups, cheaper tuners and other hardware, cheap electronics, veneers for the plus tops, and poly finish, among other things.

Gibson's use honduran woods, tusq nuts, grover tuners, Gibson USA pickups, better electronics and hardware, solid maple top, and a nitro finish. Gibson LPs are also run through the "PLEK" machine which is suppose to dress the frets and cut the nut to perfection.

Of course, you also gotta take into account who is building your guitar. An American on aliving wage who takes pride in his job and pays close attention to detail (hopefully) versus someone making $5 a day in a factory in China. You get what you pay for.
#14
Both my guitars are Epi's and I have had my Les Paul Standard for around 8 years now. It is one of the best guitars I have ever played and I have been told by some professional guitar techs that is the best Epi they have played. I guess I got incredibly lucky with it. It's worked flawlessly since I bought it and even if I had a real Gibson Les Paul, I would never get rid of it. I would still probably play it often as well. My Explorer on the other hand isn't as good. It doesn't have the same build quality as there are some marks and blemishes on the neck and the electronics aren't great.

The only thing with the LP is the pickups. That's the only thing that lets it down but thats expected at the price I paid for it.
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#15
Quote by pugachev
Epiphones use cheaper furniture grade woods, plastic nut, import pickups, cheaper tuners and other hardware, cheap electronics, veneers for the plus tops, and poly finish, among other things.

Gibson's use honduran woods, tusq nuts, grover tuners, Gibson USA pickups, better electronics and hardware, solid maple top, and a nitro finish. Gibson LPs are also run through the "PLEK" machine which is suppose to dress the frets and cut the nut to perfection.

Of course, you also gotta take into account who is building your guitar. An American on aliving wage who takes pride in his job and pays close attention to detail (hopefully) versus someone making $5 a day in a factory in China. You get what you pay for.


While that's probably true on average just because it's American made doesn't mean it's high quality every time. I'd argue that guitars coming out of Japan and Korea are getting close to the average American made guitar in quality. Even Chinese manufacturing as their middle class is expanding is getting good in terms of QC. Getting back to guitars I think I'd take a Chinese Fender over a MIM Fender more often than not nowadays.
#16
Of course, I've seen some guitars that looked and played like dogs from the Gibson line. But more often and not, like 99% of the time, the Gibson will be a better guitar. Of course, MIJ Elitists, Tokai, Greco, etc. are a different story. There are some amazing guitars out of Japan, particularly from the FujiGen plant.
#17
Quote by Mephaphil
Wut? Like a conspiracy?

An Epiphone LP Special II is the LP shape counterpart to a Squier Bullets Strat shape, not a MiM.

I would put a LP Standard next to a MIM Strat and compare them as more or less equals, with the MiM preferable for quality.

I think Epiphone makes some decent guitars for their price range. Would I choose one over a Gibson? Shit no.


Not what I meant at all
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#18
I think you'll find that most people on this site have a decent respect for Epiphones. They have some pretty good models, I had a $500 one that was pretty good, but I didn't care for the pickups at all. I've since gone back to strats.
#19
Quote by deepfat
Let me ask this. If you have an Epi LP and a Gibson LP Studio side by side and the tone is negligible in comparison for those particular two instruments, does it make sense to fork over the extra cash to get the Gibson? Why?


Well, they weren't.

I had an Epi LP Standard long ago. Then I went for Ibanez and came back for Gibson. Tested an Epi just for the fun of it through the same amp as the Gibson I bought and no, the sound was not the same and the FEEL was definitely not the same.

I've told this story quite a few times, so bare with me, even if you know where this is going and know what I'm going to say.
I'm aware that Gibson have started to lose a lot of respect for their poor QC. Now, I don't know when that exactly happened, I guess mine went through that poor QC but my guitar's good. It's a lot better than the same year 2011 Gibson LP Studio that is at the local store. Same colour and hardware too, btw.

Yes, this is coming from a Gibson LP Studio owner, owned one for about 1½ years. Haven't got really problems with it. Anything that you'd have with a 2000 euro guitar too. I love my Gibson cause it's got all the right in it. There were no sharp frets, no dents on finish. The neck feels consistently great for my hand and I have zero bad things to say about my guitar, especially I've added aftermarket pickups to suit my needs better.

That been said, I'll recommend Epiphone LP Standard/Custom to anyone who is on budget and likes those guitars. I think they're good for the money.
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#20
Quote by stonyman65
IIRC, Epi's have fake binding and maple veneer tops rather than real maple and binding like a Gibson does.

Epi's use generic electronics and pickups ( probably Chinese stuff) and Gibson uses CTS/Switchcraft and Gibson-brand pickups.

Epi uses cheap woods, Gibson uses good woods

Epi uses cheap hardware, Gibson uses better hardware

So is it worth the extra $1,500+ for a Gibson? Maybe, but that's why you should by a Tokai for $800 and blow them both out of the water

Also, the Gibson fakes are getting REALLY good in the last few years. Still a $300 guitar, but the quality is getting better and better.



Epiphones don't have "fake" binding. Thats nonsense. It's just plastic.
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#21
Quote by Sakke
Well, they weren't.

I had an Epi LP Standard long ago. Then I went for Ibanez and came back for Gibson. Tested an Epi just for the fun of it through the same amp as the Gibson I bought and no, the sound was not the same and the FEEL was definitely not the same.

I've told this story quite a few times, so bare with me, even if you know where this is going and know what I'm going to say.
I'm aware that Gibson have started to lose a lot of respect for their poor QC. Now, I don't know when that exactly happened, I guess mine went through that poor QC but my guitar's good. It's a lot better than the same year 2011 Gibson LP Studio that is at the local store. Same colour and hardware too, btw.

Yes, this is coming from a Gibson LP Studio owner, owned one for about 1½ years. Haven't got really problems with it. Anything that you'd have with a 2000 euro guitar too. I love my Gibson cause it's got all the right in it. There were no sharp frets, no dents on finish. The neck feels consistently great for my hand and I have zero bad things to say about my guitar, especially I've added aftermarket pickups to suit my needs better.

That been said, I'll recommend Epiphone LP Standard/Custom to anyone who is on budget and likes those guitars. I think they're good for the money.


Thanks for that. Now, when it comes to gigging what about an Epi LP as oppsosed to to a Gibson LP do you take into account?
#22
Your audience will never tell the difference so if you don't wanna hurt your main, leave it at home and use the Epi as the workhorse
#23
Quote by stonyman65
IIRC, Epi's have fake binding and maple veneer tops rather than real maple and binding like a Gibson does.

Epi's use generic electronics and pickups ( probably Chinese stuff) and Gibson uses CTS/Switchcraft and Gibson-brand pickups.

Epi uses cheap woods, Gibson uses good woods

Epi uses cheap hardware, Gibson uses better hardware

So is it worth the extra $1,500+ for a Gibson? Maybe, but that's why you should by a Tokai for $800 and blow them both out of the water

Also, the Gibson fakes are getting REALLY good in the last few years. Still a $300 guitar, but the quality is getting better and better.




Read the specs of this 600USD/500Euro Epi and see how many of your points still are valid....

http://www2.gibson.com/Products/Electric-Guitars/Les-Paul/Epiphone/Les-Paul-Tribute-Plus.aspx
#24
Quote by deepfat
Let me ask this. If you have an Epi LP and a Gibson LP Studio side by side and the tone is negligible in comparison for those particular two instruments, does it make sense to fork over the extra cash to get the Gibson? Why?


The tone isn't negligible though. The LP Studio Faded (One of the lower end Gibson LPs) sounds better than the Epi LP Standard. The quality of that guitar is 10x the Epi too, just the back of the Gibsons neck feels like quality. Move higher up and it's even clearer, less muddy, warmer, holds tuning better, has better quality control, better electronics, wood etc.

Just the Faded is much much better than the Epi LP Standard. I've owned a couple of Epi LPs and I've owned a Faded and now have a Traditional. I think the Epiphones are good for their price range, but Gibsons are something else, in my opinion.

So to me, and most people with ears, the difference is completely apparent which makes the point kinda moot.
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Last edited by Mephaphil at Feb 16, 2013,
#27
On the same topic (sort of) is there a higher difference, on average, between a MIA Strat vs an MIM or an Epi Paul vs. a Gibson?
#28
Korean Epi's are likened to MIM.
Chinese ones are like the Squires.

BTW ..... Never had a Gibson with sharp fret ends and a bad finish (anyone else?).
#29
This thread again?

Look epiphone is not as good as Gibson, period. Don't look at them as diffrent companys, they are products from the same company. Epiphone is the low-end of Gibson, this is how it is deal with it.

Now there are some very good Epiphones, I have one that I prefer to many Gibsons, but at the end of the day, the Gibson is way better as far as materials and craftsmanship are conserned. Now I like the way my Epi feels better, but that does not make it a superior guitar.

Now Japanese made Epiphones are a diffrent story, they are very high quality for the most part.
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#30
A thing I hardly ever see being mentioned is the neck/headstock issue.
Gibson's have a one piece neck with ears glued on the headstock for width.
Epiphone uses one piece headstock glued onto the neck via a scarf joint.

Gibson's have a 17 degree angle on the headstock. Epi's angle is much less.
#31
I played a friends Epi LP the other day, with drums and bass, it played and looked really good but the pups were thin and made me want to play the SG again right away. I think replacing the pups on his it would be a great guitar though, the neck felt good. Didn't stay in tune very well though, could just be the guy wrapped them bad or something.
#32
Quote by H4T3BR33D3R
Epiphones don't have "fake" binding. Thats nonsense. It's just plastic.


I mean "fake" as in plastic and/or painted on, not a piece of maple that was masked-off during the painting process. I guess the term I should have used is "natural binding"
Quote by strat0blaster
This is terrible advice. Even worse than the useless dry, sarcastic comment I made.

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#33
Quote by paruwi


Read the specs of this 600USD/500Euro Epi and see how many of your points still are valid....

http://www2.gibson.com/Products/Electric-Guitars/Les-Paul/Epiphone/Les-Paul-Tribute-Plus.aspx


It says right on the spec sheet that it is flame maple veneer and generic hardware.

http://www2.gibson.com/Products/Electric-Guitars/Les-Paul/Epiphone/Les-Paul-Tribute-Plus/Specs.aspx

I will admit that they did make some great advancements in electronics. That must be something new they've done recently. Most of the older ones have just whatever they can cram into them.
Quote by strat0blaster
This is terrible advice. Even worse than the useless dry, sarcastic comment I made.

Quote by Cathbard
I'm too old for the Jim Morrison look now. When I was gigging I had a fine arse.
#34
Quote by Robbgnarly
This thread again?

Look epiphone is not as good as Gibson, period. Don't look at them as diffrent companys, they are products from the same company. Epiphone is the low-end of Gibson, this is how it is deal with it.

Now there are some very good Epiphones, I have one that I prefer to many Gibsons, but at the end of the day, the Gibson is way better as far as materials and craftsmanship are conserned. Now I like the way my Epi feels better, but that does not make it a superior guitar.

Now Japanese made Epiphones are a diffrent story, they are very high quality for the most part.



For as many threads as there are on this, and for the fact that there is a search function on this forum... Sticky. Please.
#35
Quote by stonyman65
I mean "fake" as in plastic and/or painted on, not a piece of maple that was masked-off during the painting process. I guess the term I should have used is "natural binding"

I hate to spoil your fun but the binding on most guitars, including USA Gibsons, is a plastic strip. Yes, some have masked-off binding but that doesn't make it in any way better or worse. It is purely a cosmetic detail.

Epiphone Standard series and up are generally quite good. Some have Grover Tuners, which is a nice touch. The stock pickups aren't my favourite but they certainly aren't bad for the price, and recently they've been making guitars with Gibson and EMG pickups. The cheapest Epiphones are unexceptional. You get what you pay for in that price range.

When comparing them to cheap Gibsons, I don't think there's anything I could say that would justify the difference. Some people think it's worth it, others don't.

I can't help but feel that some people deliberately seek flaws in affordable guitars, because they subconciously want the more expensive ones to be better (especially if they're made in a different country).
Last edited by sashki at Feb 16, 2013,
#36
Quote by deepfat
On the same topic (sort of) is there a higher difference, on average, between a MIA Strat vs an MIM or an Epi Paul vs. a Gibson?


Generally, you get what you pay for.

There is a minor difference between MIM and MIA Fenders (mostly wood and hardware), but to be honest the quality is pretty good throughout. I've played MIM Fender's that sounded and felt better than their MIA counterpart. With the price of MIM Fender's going up to $600 now, there really isn't that much of a price difference between the two.

Gibson/Epiphone on the other hand is all over the map. Epiphone specifically is made by so many factories it's hard to get consistent quality and Gibson just doesn't really give a shit anymore.

Go to a guitar shop and play a bunch of random Gibson's and Epiphone's and you'll see how much the quality varies between guitar to guitar. It's kind of bizarre.
Quote by strat0blaster
This is terrible advice. Even worse than the useless dry, sarcastic comment I made.

Quote by Cathbard
I'm too old for the Jim Morrison look now. When I was gigging I had a fine arse.
#37
Quote by sashki
I hate to spoil your fun but the binding on most guitars, including USA Gibsons, is a plastic strip. Yes, some have masked-off binding but that doesn't make it in any way better or worse. It is purely a cosmetic detail.


I never said it was better or worse. He was asking what the differences are, and I told him.

I don't really give a shit either way, as long as it looks nice.
Quote by strat0blaster
This is terrible advice. Even worse than the useless dry, sarcastic comment I made.

Quote by Cathbard
I'm too old for the Jim Morrison look now. When I was gigging I had a fine arse.
#38
Quote by sashki
I can't help but feel that some people deliberately seek flaws in affordable guitars, because they subconciously want the more expensive ones to be better (especially if they're made in a different country).


........and people with Epiphones often try to convince that Gibson's aren't worth it.
#39
Quote by stonyman65
I mean "fake" as in plastic and/or painted on, not a piece of maple that was masked-off during the painting process. I guess the term I should have used is "natural binding"


Gibsons use plastic as binding as well. The only "natural" binding they use is on the cheap guitars. I know the difference. You seem to not know about Gibsons if you're implying that they use that process in the standards.
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#40
Quote by H4T3BR33D3R
Gibsons use plastic as binding as well. The only "natural" binding they use is on the cheap guitars. I know the difference. You seem to not know about Gibsons if you're implying that they use that process in the standards.


I never said they didn't. All I said is that they don't use natural binding...
Quote by strat0blaster
This is terrible advice. Even worse than the useless dry, sarcastic comment I made.

Quote by Cathbard
I'm too old for the Jim Morrison look now. When I was gigging I had a fine arse.
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