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rlheart
I haz sammiches
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636 IQ
#1
I know the tonal and aethestic differences between these two amps (5150 has more low mids and is more aggressive. 5150 II has an extra preamp tube, is brighter and has more upper mids; better cleans due to the extra EQ).

I cannot however, find a sound comparison between the two so I can actually hear it with my own ears.

The only 6505 I was able to find in my area was messed up (I pointed this out to the store owner and he sent it back to Peavey; he said it looks to be about 3 weeks before they'll get it back or get a new one). They had a 5150 II there as well. I was hoping to A/B them but couldn't. Every other store in my area only has the 6505+ (or in the case of the store I was at originally, a 5150 II; same thing so I'm still SOL in that regard).

Can somebody who owns both a 5150 and a 5150 II A/B the lead channels with the same settings for each amp?

I have looked everywhere for a good comparison and cannot find one. The closest one I found was a 5150 vs 5150 II vs 5150 III but the 5150 II was modded to 5150 specs, so it wasn't really helpful in that regard.

Also, I'm fully aware of the clips MatrixClaw has. The 5150 clip is louder than the 5150 II clip, so it sounds a lot better to my ears, but I find it to be rather unfair because it sounds so much louder.

Also, yes I am aware of tonefinder.com.

I'm hoping to have a NAD fairly soon here, as my 6505+ 112 combo is just too heavy and big for easy transport (heavy I can handle, but it's huge on top of it. My 4x12 cab I have is easier to transport than that combo.) so I'm looking to physically downsize to a head.

Thanks everyone!
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rlheart
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#3
Yes I have.

It's not miced, and he's standing in front of the amp heads at the end so you can't tell if the settings are the same or not.

Thanks for trying though man. If that one at the store wasn't broken I'd have this answered by now.
Ibanez S320 (ToneZone/PAF Pro)
Ibanez RG321MH (EMG 85/85)

Peavey 6505
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Mesa Boogie 412 Rectifier Standard Cab
Peavey 412ms cab

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Offworld92
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#4
You really have to play them yourself anyway. You're already well aware of the basic differences between the two - at this point anything we say won't really matter. You have to stand in front of them and see which you prefer anyway.

You don't necessarily have to A/B them though. Assuming the different stores aren't a PITA to get to, and you're using the same guitar, it shouldn't matter if they're right next to each other or not. Take a couple trips and go back and forth a couple times if you have to.

Assuming you don't have short term memory loss, that is.
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rlheart
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#5
Quote by Offworld92
You really have to play them yourself anyway. You're already well aware of the basic differences between the two - at this point anything we say won't really matter. You have to stand in front of them and see which you prefer anyway.

You don't necessarily have to A/B them though. Assuming the different stores aren't a PITA to get to, and you're using the same guitar, it shouldn't matter if they're right next to each other or not. Take a couple trips and go back and forth a couple times if you have to.

Assuming you don't have short term memory loss, that is.


I checked all of the guitar centers in my area (including ones that are over an hour away) and they're all carrying the plus.

For audio clips I was hoping for an A/B situation, and if this store didn't have a broken one I could have an easy answer.

TL;DR: Nobody seems to carry a regular 6505 anymore, not in my area at least.
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KailM
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#6
I can't help you much, because I'm in the same boat; I've never seen an original 5150 or 6505, but have played the + version extensively. I'll be watching this thread closely.

Judging by what people say and certain albums that used the standard 5150/6505, I think I'd prefer that one. However, I doubt you'd be disappointed with either one. The + is still one badass amp...
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#7
if you want a smoother distortion get the II/+

if you want a grindier more ballsy distortion get the regular version


proud 6505 owner here
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#8
Quote by BoneAndDream
if you want a smoother distortion get the II/+

if you want a grindier more ballsy distortion get the regular version


proud 6505 owner here


5150/6505 has more balls.
Quote by DeathByDestroyr
See, it's important that people clarify when they say "metal", because I pretty much always assume they are a Cannibal Corpse fanboi.
rlheart
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#9
I think you guys are missing the point.

It's absolutely ridiculous that I can find a mic'd amp shootout tone comparison between just about everything (dual rec vs 6505, marshall jcm800 vs ENGL, etc.) except for the 6505/5150 vs 6505+/5150 II.

These are two of the most popular metal amps ever made yet you can't find this anywhere.

Saying the 6505 has more balls doesn't mean anything if I can't hear it in comparison to the one I'm used to.

I know the difference between the two; I want to actually hear it.

Quote by KailM
I can't help you much, because I'm in the same boat; I've never seen an original 5150 or 6505, but have played the + version extensively. I'll be watching this thread closely.

Judging by what people say and certain albums that used the standard 5150/6505, I think I'd prefer that one. However, I doubt you'd be disappointed with either one. The + is still one badass amp...


lol, we literally are in the same boat. From what I've heard I think I'll prefer the original as well, but I'm very hesitant to plunk down my tax return on an amp that I've never played and sounds better to me in theory alone.
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Last edited by rlheart at Feb 18, 2013,
dkunick
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#10
You could always try this: https://www.ultimate-guitar.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1530322

So much easier to use the head alone with either cab, and as you probably know it sounds quite good thru a 412.
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#11
Quote by rlheart
I think I'll prefer the original as well, but I'm very hesitant to plunk down my tax return on an amp that I've never played and sounds better to me in theory alone.



lol, that's what i did. i had never played my 6505 before i ordered it from an out-of-state GC because the one i can get to only has the +. i took the risk and i'm quite happy i did.
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#12
Quote by rlheart
I think you guys are missing the point.

It's absolutely ridiculous that I can find a mic'd amp shootout tone comparison between just about everything (dual rec vs 6505, marshall jcm800 vs ENGL, etc.) except for the 6505/5150 vs 6505+/5150 II.

These are two of the most popular metal amps ever made yet you can't find this anywhere.

Saying the 6505 has more balls doesn't mean anything if I can't hear it in comparison to the one I'm used to.

I know the difference between the two; I want to actually hear it.

It is not ridiculous just because you want something and it is not available
Like has been said the 5150/5150II are very similar. the 5150 being a little more raw and ballsy in tone. The 5150II has a little smother gain and a better clean ch. thats about the extent of it.

I don't think you can go wrong either way honestly if your after that 5150 type of sound.
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BoneAndDream
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#13
if you do end up getting the 5150/6505 experiment with both channels EXTENSIVELY. everybody and their brother uses the red channel for metal, so i was originally just following in that line but i've found the green is more brutal. even with no boost.
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Last edited by BoneAndDream at Feb 18, 2013,
rlheart
I haz sammiches
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#14
Just an update.

I've decided I'm going to buy both a 5150/6505 and a 5150 II/6505+ with my combined paycheck + tax refund (found a 6505 for $500 and a 5150 II for $650. My budget was about $1200 so I'm getting both). I'm also about to put a OS Rectifier cab on layaway (I have a cab, but it honestly sucks).

Once I get all three together and find a good mic placement I'll reamp them at the same settings (or if I can't figure out reamping, I'll just do the same cover twice or something).

So, unless something changes (car wreck, tax refund gets refused or the like) expect a decent amp comparison thing to show up soon from me.

Will keep you guys posted.
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#16
I don't have any experience doing this, but the slight differences between the two could probably just be compensated for with a good EQ pedal or just the onboard EQ. They aren't that different that they couldn't be tweaked to sound very similar if not identical IMO. It's just nitpicking at this point.
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#17
Quote by evmac
I don't have any experience doing this, but the slight differences between the two could probably just be compensated for with a good EQ pedal or just the onboard EQ. They aren't that different that they couldn't be tweaked to sound very similar if not identical IMO. It's just nitpicking at this point.

+1
They will sound a little diffrent with the exact same settings, but if you EQ to sound and not the actual same dial settings you'll probably never know which is which.
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#18
Quote by rlheart
Also, I'm fully aware of the clips MatrixClaw has. The 5150 clip is louder than the 5150 II clip, so it sounds a lot better to my ears, but I find it to be rather unfair because it sounds so much louder.

I've been meaning to remaster all those tracks so they're more accurate. I'll see if I still have them later and get them all at similar volumes.

Either way though, none of my clips were definitely not dialed in with the same EQ settings, they were dialed in to where I thought they sounded best

That being said, I wouldn't say the 6505+ is a brighter amp, nor does it have more upper mids. It's smoother, which usually means it's darker and has more low mids. I've still yet to find an amp (aside from the 2 channel Recto) that I thought justified the increased price tag over my 5150, though.


*edit* Uploaded "remastered" tracks of all the files I could find here:

https://soundcloud.com/matrixclaw/sets/tone-tests
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rlheart
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#19
Awesome MatrixClaw! Thanks for doing that!

Also, an update: Got the 6505 today ($500; will be doing a NAD soon)

Working on the cab next, then a 6505+/5150 II
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#20
Quote by KailM
I can't help you much, because I'm in the same boat; I've never seen an original 5150 or 6505, but have played the + version extensively. I'll be watching this thread closely.

Judging by what people say and certain albums that used the standard 5150/6505, I think I'd prefer that one. However, I doubt you'd be disappointed with either one. The + is still one badass amp...

I've had the pleasure of playing an Original 5150, not the II version, and it sounded great, but it was a little messed up as well. It didn't stay in the store long. It was gone within the week it had arrived. Even though they're discontinued, they still sell like hotcakes.
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#21
Quote by rlheart
Awesome MatrixClaw! Thanks for doing that!

Also, an update: Got the 6505 today ($500; will be doing a NAD soon)

Working on the cab next, then a 6505+/5150 II

Congrats on the new amp! Why though do you want another 6505+ though? Assuming you're going for the big brother head...but seriously, the 60W amp you have will drive a cab very well and there's really no noticeable diff in volume. Just curious.
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rlheart
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#22
Quote by dkunick
Congrats on the new amp! Why though do you want another 6505+ though? Assuming you're going for the big brother head...but seriously, the 60W amp you have will drive a cab very well and there's really no noticeable diff in volume. Just curious.



here:

Quote by rlheart
I'm hoping to have a NAD fairly soon here, as my 6505+ 112 combo is just too heavy and big for easy transport (heavy I can handle, but it's huge on top of it. My 4x12 cab I have is easier to transport than that combo.) so I'm looking to physically downsize to a head.


That's why. The 2nd is so I can have a backup amp for gigs and do a tone comparison between the two heads.
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#23
i had a 6505+ for a week or two (wasn't what i wanted and easy profit opportunity).

i have a feeling that there is more of a difference in things like setting and tubes than there actually are in the amp.

for example one full of JJ"s and one full of EHX, that would be very different.
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rlheart
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#24
Quote by trashedlostfdup
i had a 6505+ for a week or two (wasn't what i wanted and easy profit opportunity).

i have a feeling that there is more of a difference in things like setting and tubes than there actually are in the amp.

for example one full of JJ"s and one full of EHX, that would be very different.


I'm inclined to agree, but that's the point of these future tests. Get them in the exact same setup (forgot to mention I will be retubing them with the same tubes) and see how they compare.

This will take time and money, but it will be worth it in the end to me.

I'll get two good amps, end my own personal quest, and perform an experiment that will help future buyers. Its an all win situation in my opinion.
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#25
I am very anxious to see a HQ side by side.
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#26
Quote by rlheart
here:


That's why. The 2nd is so I can have a backup amp for gigs and do a tone comparison between the two heads.

Got it, makes sense if you're doing it for more than practical reasons. I just found chopping the head off the 112 worked great and makes for a lighter head than the big brother. Best of luck with your comparison. Cheers.
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#27
Quote by Offworld92
I am very anxious to see a HQ side by side.

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#28
Yeah stock between the two there is really no real evident difference. But I thought the 5150II had a little more umph to it than the 6505+. I know its all about the tubes so im eager to see what the diffrerences will be as well.

I still dont see what others see in the 6505+. For an amp with horrible cleans and the most dry souless middy high gain to be the backline of so many bands. I just dont see it! Im sure people were saying the same in the 80's when the JCM800 was on everystage.
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KailM
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#29
^^It's all personal preference.

I have played Mesa Mark Vs, Dual Recs, Marshall JVMs, the EVH 5150 III, Laneys, Oranges; etc.

NONE OF THEM held a candle to the 6505 for what I want in my high gain tone. That said, there are plenty of amps that I still haven't tried yet...
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#30
Quote by bburritt1
Yeah stock between the two there is really no real evident difference. But I thought the 5150II had a little more umph to it than the 6505+. I know its all about the tubes so im eager to see what the diffrerences will be as well.


The 5150 II and the 6505+ are the exact same amp. If you heard a difference then you were correct on the tubes/cab, etc.

The 5150/6505 (not the II/+) is a different amp and it's those two stock that are hard to find comparisons of.


I still dont see what others see in the 6505+. For an amp with horrible cleans and the most dry souless middy high gain to be the backline of so many bands. I just dont see it! Im sure people were saying the same in the 80's when the JCM800 was on everystage.


I've gotten good cleans out of 6505+ heads and my 6505+ 112 combo easily. I've even got some decent cleans out of my 6505 head (and that's without spending any time really dialing it in).

Literally nobody buys these amps for their cleans.

But I hear you on the dry; I personally like it, but it's definitely not for everyone (the green channel seems a bit different on the 6505 vs the 6505+ btw, but I've only gotten to spend about 3 hours with it.)

The 6505+ green channel can get a great marshall tone I've found.

I'll upload some clips of my mic'd combo on the green channel to tonefinder or something so yall can hear how different that amp can sound.

As for the 6505/6505+ comparison, it's still going to happen, but it's going to be awhile. Still need to get the other amp, and the other cab.
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#31
Quote by KailM
^^It's all personal preference.

I have played Mesa Mark Vs, Dual Recs, Marshall JVMs, the EVH 5150 III, Laneys, Oranges; etc.

NONE OF THEM held a candle to the 6505 for what I want in my high gain tone. That said, there are plenty of amps that I still haven't tried yet...


+1

Though I haven't had a chance to actually play a 5150III yet. The clips I've heard are totally hit or miss, so I would really like to play one myself. Sometimes it sounds absolutely brutal and crushing, other times it sounds weak and old school (not bad, just not what I look for). I'm curious to find out what it's actually capable of firsthand.
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#32
Quote by Offworld92

The clips I've heard [of the 5153]are totally hit or miss, so I would really like to play one myself. Sometimes it sounds absolutely brutal and crushing, other times it sounds weak and old school (not bad, just not what I look for). I'm curious to find out what it's actually capable of firsthand.


Same here dude. Never seen one in person and they're really expensive (here's hoping for lots of money in my future haha)

I've heard some amazing tones on it and some "Omg wtf did you do?" tones on it. I think it's just how it was dialed personally.
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#33
Quote by KailM
^^It's all personal preference.

I have played Mesa Mark Vs, Dual Recs, Marshall JVMs, the EVH 5150 III, Laneys, Oranges; etc.

NONE OF THEM held a candle to the 6505 for what I want in my high gain tone. That said, there are plenty of amps that I still haven't tried yet...



this is EXACTLY my experience.

at first i was baffled because my favorite band and guitarist (john k from older tbdm) used a triple rec, and i loved their tone. but i tried one in a store and didn't really care for it. then i learned that brian, the rhythm guy, used a 6505. that's why i loved the band's tone so much.

5150/6505 is the biggest, meanest amp i've ever played. but then again i've never played any diezel heads.
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#34
Quote by BoneAndDream
this is EXACTLY my experience.

at first i was baffled because my favorite band and guitarist (john k from older tbdm) used a triple rec, and i loved their tone. but i tried one in a store and didn't really care for it. then i learned that brian, the rhythm guy, used a 6505. that's why i loved the band's tone so much.

5150/6505 is the biggest, meanest amp i've ever played. but then again i've never played any diezel heads.


+1

I'm actually having a very related issue right now. Ryan uses a Tone Zone and Brian uses an 81. Not sure which one I'm hearing more of that I like. Probably just settle for D Activators...

I've played a VH4. ohmy****inggawd. It wasn't heavy in the same way that only a 6505 can be heavy, but it was like... it didn't even matter. That is to this day the only amp I can accurately describes as "dripping with tone". It was almost like a religious experience. Diezels are well worth their price tag.
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#35
Quote by Offworld92
+1

I'm actually having a very related issue right now. Ryan uses a Tone Zone and Brian uses an 81. Not sure which one I'm hearing more of that I like. Probably just settle for D Activators...

I've played a VH4. ohmy****inggawd. It wasn't heavy in the same way that only a 6505 can be heavy, but it was like... it didn't even matter. That is to this day the only amp I can accurately describes as "dripping with tone". It was almost like a religious experience. Diezels are well worth their price tag.



I actually have a ToneZone and an EMG 85 in the respective bridges of my guitars (both Mahogany). I've used the 81 quite a bit in the past as well.

PART 1: EMG's
The 81 is very, very trebly to my ears (see: thin) so I ended up switching my 81/85 so that the 81 was in the neck and it was much better than in the bridge.

I also had a 60 at the time (which I loved), which I preferred over the 81 in the neck. So then I tried swapping the 60 and the 85 (60 bridge 85 neck) and felt the 85 was the best of the EMGs (the 60 didn't sound bad in the bridge, so much as it didn't sound as good), so I sold my 81 and traded my 60 for another 85.

TL;DR versionof PART 1:
EMG-85 = fat and chunky. Darker sounding. Good in bridge and neck
EMG-81 = Thin. Better neck than bridge pickup contrary to popular opinion.
EMG-60 = Nice, but not the best bridge pickup. REALLY GOOD CLEANS.


PART II: The ToneZone
As for the ToneZone, it's also really really chunky and dark, but I've found that you have to up your gain a bit to get the same articulation that the EMG's offer. I found that it's more clear at lower tunings than the EMG 85 (can't say about in comparison to the EMG 81) and, while I can get them sounding similar (not even remotely the same though), it just feels different when playing than my EMGs.

END OF WALL O TEXT

That said, I actually like the Dimarzio's more, but the EMG's are pretty good themselves. I actually use my EMG equipped guitar more because it's a softtail more than any other reason.

Not the most accurate comparison because they are two different guitars in the end, but I hope it helped.
Ibanez S320 (ToneZone/PAF Pro)
Ibanez RG321MH (EMG 85/85)

Peavey 6505
Peavey 6505+ 112 (w/V30)
Mesa Boogie 412 Rectifier Standard Cab
Peavey 412ms cab

Digitech Digidelay
Ibanez WD-7 (Wah)
Maxon OD808
Korg PitchBlack
VS Liquid Chorus
Last edited by rlheart at Mar 5, 2013,
bburritt1
Sauron Hates EMG's......
Join date: Feb 2013
188 IQ
#36
I have friends that have had their 6505's since they came out and they always thought i was crazy that i never liked them. But there tone was always pretty good. Then i was using a BV120H 2003 i think and to me that was awesome cause thats all i could afford and they looked at me like "How are you getting that mean of a tone out of that POS?" And I then realized its all about how you dial in your amp and what gels with you as a player. Now that its gone and i have my Stiff Amp that BV120 doesnt hold a damn candle to that little guy. Tone could raise the dead. Its all preference.
The Rig of Joy:
Stiff Amplification Dirthead 20w
Bugera 2x12 Cab
Fender Partscaster Korean Made
Epiphone Prophecy
Washburn Southern Cross 34 of 100
Ibanez TS9,AD9,GCB95, Multi Chorus and TU2
BoneAndDream
Registered User
Join date: Nov 2012
568 IQ
#37
Quote by Offworld92
+1

I'm actually having a very related issue right now. Ryan uses a Tone Zone and Brian uses an 81. Not sure which one I'm hearing more of that I like. Probably just settle for D Activators...

I've played a VH4. ohmy****inggawd. It wasn't heavy in the same way that only a 6505 can be heavy, but it was like... it didn't even matter. That is to this day the only amp I can accurately describes as "dripping with tone". It was almost like a religious experience. Diezels are well worth their price tag.


man i really need to try the vh4. and the herbert

lol, one time i was learning some solo from deflorate. my guitar teacher was listening to it, and i said "yeah he uses the same pickup as you, tone zone"

and he said "WHAT? that's a tone zone?!"
1997 Ibanez RG550 w/ EMG 81 bridge - C standard
PEAVEY 6505
Mesa Rectifier slant 4x12
Tremolo Bum
Addicted to FR
Join date: Feb 2008
1,607 IQ
#38
I just finished modding the lead channel of my 6505+ to 6505 specs or as close as it can get.

I'll try to upload the files somewhere. I don't think I can put them on my profile as I was just noodling around and sloppily playing some riffs I knew.

Granted, it's not an actual 6505 so it might not be the best side by side comparison, but it's a start.

Jackson RR3 Rhoads and DK2M Dinky
Peavey 6505+ w/ Avatar 212 cab
Ibanez TS9, ISP Decimator, MXR 10 Band EQ
-Digitech RP1000
rlheart
I haz sammiches
Join date: Dec 2006
636 IQ
#39
Quote by Tremolo Bum
I just finished modding the lead channel of my 6505+ to 6505 specs or as close as it can get.

I'll try to upload the files somewhere. I don't think I can put them on my profile as I was just noodling around and sloppily playing some riffs I knew.

Granted, it's not an actual 6505 so it might not be the best side by side comparison, but it's a start.


If you could that would be great.

I'm going to use the lasse Mago reamps once I'm set up (getting the mesa cab tonight), so if you could use that I'd appreciate it.

Probably going to be another month or two before I can do this though (about to take a trip to Florida to visit my sister; that will cut into my funds a bit).

Still need the 5150 II/6505+, but I'm almost there!
Ibanez S320 (ToneZone/PAF Pro)
Ibanez RG321MH (EMG 85/85)

Peavey 6505
Peavey 6505+ 112 (w/V30)
Mesa Boogie 412 Rectifier Standard Cab
Peavey 412ms cab

Digitech Digidelay
Ibanez WD-7 (Wah)
Maxon OD808
Korg PitchBlack
VS Liquid Chorus
rlheart
I haz sammiches
Join date: Dec 2006
636 IQ
#40
DOUBLE POSTING LIKE A BITCH.

Got the Mesa 4x12 OS cab.

Will probably do a NAD later today since it's here at my house and not our band room.

Only the 6505+/5150 II left (and I guess a reamping/di box so the recordigns will be consistent).
Ibanez S320 (ToneZone/PAF Pro)
Ibanez RG321MH (EMG 85/85)

Peavey 6505
Peavey 6505+ 112 (w/V30)
Mesa Boogie 412 Rectifier Standard Cab
Peavey 412ms cab

Digitech Digidelay
Ibanez WD-7 (Wah)
Maxon OD808
Korg PitchBlack
VS Liquid Chorus