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zenbone
King of two things...
Join date: Jun 2011
90 IQ
#2
you can't go wrong with either but i would say the Jagurello. more pickups = more brutal
Quote by BlackVoid
Every guitar and bass forum I've visited has some people chasing some magical tone that will shoot jizzing unicorns riding on a rainbow out of their amp.
4FunandProphet
Not actually a prophet...
Join date: Jan 2008
10 IQ
#3
Why do you want a Jaguar? That's the real question. If it's for the tone and switching options of a Jaguar, then get the Jaguar. If it's just for the body shape and scale, then would you rather have a Jaguar or a Strat trapped in a Jaguar's body? Because that is exactly what you get with the Jaguarillo. For me, it would be the Jaguarillo, for pickup layout, simple switching and wiring, and looks.
jetwash69
Registered User
Join date: May 2008
244 IQ
#4
I concur with both the above posts.

Another thing for you to consider is whether you want to have to remove the pick guard to adjust the truss rod. Major pain in the butt if you're doing it yourself, and if you're letting a tech/luthier do it for you it might cost more. Also more chances of hardware getting f-ed up or pickguard screw holes getting stripped as lots of techs aren't too careful with the screws or get too lazy to use the right sized screwdriver. Also more chances for deep scratches in the guard or the body if the screwdriver slips.

Maybe not a big deal, but just something that you should be aware of in case you hadn't noticed that or considered the ramifications before.
SteveHOC
Used Register
Join date: Jul 2012
110 IQ
#5
Well, we can't really tell you which one to get. Any information that we can tell you is probably on the specs, widely available online. I guess we can tell you which guitar we would personally pick, and in that case, I pick the Jaguar. Why? Because I like them, and haven't played the other. Check out the "which guitar should I get?" sticky if you want suggestions, otherwise, go play them both, and pick the one that feels right.
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marjoriefish
Registered User
Join date: Feb 2013
20 IQ
#6
jetwash69, that's a good point.

4FunandProphet, I want a Jaguar for the scale length and the body size. I generally play an SG but I want a second guitar for a different sound. And my SG is a robot and therefore can't have a whammy bar, so the Jaguar is a good contrast I think. I also just don't like Teles or Strats.

I played the Jaguarillo at a store and I really liked the neck and the sound, but I've never found a Classic Player Jaguar Special so I don't know much about it other than the specs.
JustRooster
Professionally Crabby
Join date: Jan 2005
514 IQ
#7
Personally, the Jaguar.


If you get the Jaguarillo, however, make sure you're prepared to try and find a humbucker to swap out. The Atomic Humbucker in there is horrid.

Quote by EyeNon15
Thats too bad, I was under the impression I was arguing something profound


Quote by StewieSwan
my eyes are rolling harder than fred durst

gucio93
>_>
Join date: Mar 2007
70 IQ
#8
Quote by jetwash69
I concur with both the above posts.

Another thing for you to consider is whether you want to have to remove the pick guard to adjust the truss rod. Major pain in the butt if you're doing it yourself, and if you're letting a tech/luthier do it for you it might cost more. Also more chances of hardware getting f-ed up or pickguard screw holes getting stripped as lots of techs aren't too careful with the screws or get too lazy to use the right sized screwdriver. Also more chances for deep scratches in the guard or the body if the screwdriver slips.

Maybe not a big deal, but just something that you should be aware of in case you hadn't noticed that or considered the ramifications before.


Easier to take the neck off. I have a jazzmaster and that's how I do it. That way you don't have to remove the strings. If you hold them down at the first fret with a capo they stay in place and you only have to unscrew 4 screws instead of like 12 from taking off the pg. Not to mention a truss rod adjustment isn't a common tune-up procedure so a little extra work once in a blue moon is really negligible.
Gear:
Fender CP Jazzmaster
Schecter PT Custom w/ Dimarzio crunch lab/liquifire
Marshall JCM2000 DSL+Orange 4x12
Orange Tiny Terror+Mesa Electra Dyne 2x12
Boss TU-2/NS-2/DD-6
Maxon OD808



MY BAND!
SteveHOC
Used Register
Join date: Jul 2012
110 IQ
#9
Alright, this is probably going to sound nuts, but have you looked at the Squier VM Jaguar? Truss rod adjustment at the head of the neck, tremolo, and vintage specs. Pickups and pots are easy enough to swap out, and you save at least a few hundred bucks. If you're set on the Fender, totally understandable, but it's a thought if you want a Jag with easy truss rod accessibility. Quality wise, it may not be exactly spot-on the CP Special, but with a few upgrades, it'll be damn close (and you could do a lot worse for the price).
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jetwash69
Registered User
Join date: May 2008
244 IQ
#10
Quote by gucio93
Easier to take the neck off. I have a jazzmaster and that's how I do it. That way you don't have to remove the strings. If you hold them down at the first fret with a capo they stay in place and you only have to unscrew 4 screws instead of like 12 from taking off the pg. Not to mention a truss rod adjustment isn't a common tune-up procedure so a little extra work once in a blue moon is really negligible.


Good points all around. And as I mentioned before, it's not a big deal for everyone; just something good to know going into it.

Clearly taking the neck off is less convenient than using an allen key at the top of the headstock. Just like restringing a Floyd is less convenient than a fixed bridge. There's a few concerns with letting a tech take the neck off:
- If they forget which screws go with which guitar, they can crack the neck if they try to force a screw that's too long. Don't laugh--it happens when they're multitasking and pressed for time
- The neck screw heads are even more likely to get damaged. That's a real annoyance when it rips the flesh on your left palm when you're playing high notes. Strat screws are easy to find replacements, but many others are more of a challenge (like my Schecter that a tech screwed up--literally).

Anyway thanks for the neck tip; I'll probably use it on my Mustang if it ever needs an adjustment.

Quote by SteveHOC
Alright, this is probably going to sound nuts, but have you looked at the Squier VM Jaguar? Truss rod adjustment at the head of the neck, tremolo, and vintage specs. Pickups and pots are easy enough to swap out, and you save at least a few hundred bucks. If you're set on the Fender, totally understandable, but it's a thought if you want a Jag with easy truss rod accessibility. Quality wise, it may not be exactly spot-on the CP Special, but with a few upgrades, it'll be damn close (and you could do a lot worse for the price).


Not a bad idea. Especially if you were going to swap pups anyway. But you may also want to consider changing out the other electronics, too. It even has 22 frets, which is a little rare for a Squier. You can get those parts here: http://www.darrenriley.com/fenderparts.htm

Edit: If you do go with the Squier, you might want to consider getting it from Sweetwater. Normally they do a good setup on their guitars--and have a reputation for doing it better than most music stores. Squiers are notorious for awful factory setups, although the VMs won't be as bad as Affinities or Bullets. I'd call and ask first, though, as they might not be doing that on their cheaper guitars since there's much smaller margins on those.
Last edited by jetwash69 at Feb 19, 2013,
marjoriefish
Registered User
Join date: Feb 2013
20 IQ
#11
Every Squier I've ever played has sounded cheap and flabby to me. But maybe these are different? I dunno. Maybe I'll give it a try if I can find one at a store.
SteveHOC
Used Register
Join date: Jul 2012
110 IQ
#12
Worth a shot for sure. I just picked up the VM Jazzmaster and I have no complaints thus far, it feels quite solid (though I know what you mean about some of the other models).
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jetwash69
Registered User
Join date: May 2008
244 IQ
#13
Quote by marjoriefish
Every Squier I've ever played has sounded cheap and flabby to me. But maybe these are different? I dunno. Maybe I'll give it a try if I can find one at a store.


Well, the pickups are the main reason. Replacing the tuning machines won't hurt either--I had to on my Affinity because I broke 2 of them. The pots, switches, and jack can use replacing too. I got a total investment of around $450 in my Affinity including a $100 or so setup (where they had to shim the neck) and including the $125 I paid for it in the first place. But now it's my favorite guitar and the one I use ahead of much more expensive guitars. It's definitely better than any MIM Fender I've seen at any price. Only drawbacks now are 21 frets instead of 22 (can't do anything about that) and the saddles are getting worn, so it'll need better replacements some day.

The VM might not need new pots (at least not for a long time), but it probably wouldn't hurt to replace the jack with a DiMarzio unit (under $6 from Musician's Friend). It won't affect the tone, but it will hold the cable better.

If if were a hollow body it'd be a different story because those have somewhat microphonic pups designed to pick up some of the acoustic resonance--so wood characteristics and construction will make a bigger difference with those. But this is a solid body electric, so the pickups are almost exclusively transmitting magnetic signal, making wood factors fairly irrelevant. The biggest concern would be if the Squier had a crappy bridge--that can affect the tone on a solid body electric a little bit, but no where near as much as the quality of the pickups will. And unless you're playing on a tube amp (or a one in a million solid state amp), it might not make much difference because most solid state amps mask such nuances.

Remember, the amp/pedals comprise the biggest factor in your tone by a huge margin (like 95% or more, especially if you use distortion).
Last edited by jetwash69 at Feb 20, 2013,
marjoriefish
Registered User
Join date: Feb 2013
20 IQ
#14
Quote by jetwash69
Remember, the amp/pedals comprise the biggest factor in your tone by a huge margin (like 95% or more, especially if you use distortion).

Perhaps so, but I use basically no distortion other than some tube warmth; so the pickups I use are probably more important. I'll probably pass on the Squiers, but maybe when I play one it will blow me away? (I don't think it's likely though. From what I can tell the people who say that Squiers sound like Fenders are just bad at listening to music).
Acϵ♠
UG Board King
Join date: Apr 2006
120 IQ
#15
Quote by marjoriefish
jetwash69, that's a good point.

4FunandProphet, I want a Jaguar for the scale length and the body size. I generally play an SG but I want a second guitar for a different sound. And my SG is a robot and therefore can't have a whammy bar, so the Jaguar is a good contrast I think. I also just don't like Teles or Strats.

I played the Jaguarillo at a store and I really liked the neck and the sound, but I've never found a Classic Player Jaguar Special so I don't know much about it other than the specs.


If a whammy system is what you want, then a Jaguar is not what you want. The tremolo is more or less useless except for chord vibrato. No good at all.
Quote by yellowfrizbee
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Bitches be Crazy.

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SteveHOC
Used Register
Join date: Jul 2012
110 IQ
#17
Quote by marjoriefish
Perhaps so, but I use basically no distortion other than some tube warmth; so the pickups I use are probably more important. I'll probably pass on the Squiers, but maybe when I play one it will blow me away? (I don't think it's likely though. From what I can tell the people who say that Squiers sound like Fenders are just bad at listening to music).


This comment is kind of hilarious. Saying that Fender overall has a "sound" (even if you just mean Jags) is inherently incorrect. There are variations of the Jaguar, variations of specs, thus variations of sound. I happen to find that there are several Squiers that sound very much like their Fender counterparts, and I'm guessing there are several people on this board that share the sentiment - people who listen to music well enough.

Anyway, not picking a fight, or necessarily saying that you're wrong (we all have our opinions) - but don't lump people who believe their Squiers sound as good as Fenders into the camp of people who are "bad at listening to music". Sweeping statements like that are asinine.
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marjoriefish
Registered User
Join date: Feb 2013
20 IQ
#18
I've been told enough times that this-or-that Squier sounds just as good as a Fender, then played it only to discover that the Squier sounds like a cow fart. I've stopped looking for the Magical $200 Guitar That Sounds As Good As A $700 Guitar. I don't think it exists.
jetwash69
Registered User
Join date: May 2008
244 IQ
#19
Quote by marjoriefish
I've been told enough times that this-or-that Squier sounds just as good as a Fender, then played it only to discover that the Squier sounds like a cow fart. I've stopped looking for the Magical $200 Guitar That Sounds As Good As A $700 Guitar. I don't think it exists.


No, but swap the pups and bridge between the two guitars, give the $200 guitar a good setup, then see which one sounds better.

Comparing the Squier out of the box to the Fender out of the box, there's a good chance the Squier will lose (but maybe not by much if you test blind). But if you enjoy doing modifications, then the Squier can be a better value. Especially if you compare it to the pawnshop version which probably also would benefit from a better bridge pickup.

Also, remember the Vintage Modified represent the high end of the Squier line, whereas the Pawnshops are mid-to-low end Fenders. The worst sounding Squiers I've played have been Standard model Strats and Jagmasters. The Standards even sound bad unplugged, so it's not just the pickups; maybe it's the agathis, or maybe they just have really crappy saddles and/or trem blocks. Oddly enough, the Affinity Strats sound better unplugged even though they cost less (maybe it's the alder). Plugged in they all need pup replacements, but the Standard still sounds worse (I think it's something with the bridge).

IMHO, the Pawnshop Mustangs don't hold a candle to my MIJ '65 Mustang RI, or even to the Cobain sig model Mustang.

Regardless of what you get, be sure to post a NGD thread with photos. Sound clips or video would be cool, too. Happy hunting!
Last edited by jetwash69 at Feb 20, 2013,
marjoriefish
Registered User
Join date: Feb 2013
20 IQ
#21
jetwash69, further thoughts on Squier vs Fender...

A Squier Jaguar is $300. A Fender Jaguar is $700.

I could buy the Squier ($300) and then buy pickups ($200) and a tremolo with arm ($100) and tuners ($50). That's $650 and I haven't even touched the pots and switches yet. Nor I have accounted for my time which also has value. Not to mention the setup ($100). And I have a feeling the frets on the Squier will go bad sooner than the frets on a Fender.

I just don't see the bargain in buying a Squier and upgrading it.
Ippon
Amped
Join date: Feb 2006
200 IQ
#22
Another option is a used MIJ Jaguar for a little bit more than a new Squier. I love inexpensive guitars since some do offer an excellent Bang for the $$$. The MIJ versions are pretty well-made and if you're fussy, chances are it'll be the PUs that'll need an upgrade.
SteveHOC
Used Register
Join date: Jul 2012
110 IQ
#23
Quote by Ippon
Another option is a used MIJ Jaguar for a little bit more than a new Squier. I love inexpensive guitars since some do offer an excellent Bang for the $$$. The MIJ versions are pretty well-made and if you're fussy, chances are it'll be the PUs that'll need an upgrade.


I haven't seen a MIJ (non-Special HH) Jag go for under $600, and yeah, the pickups are unimpressive, which could put it at more than the MIM CP Jag.

The Squier will run you $300 if you don't use any coupon codes that are out all the time - which, of course, you should. Pickups, should you upgrade, may run you $200, the trem arm is an unnecessary upgrade, and my VM tuners are solid. All that will run around $460 (I just got $40 off at Sam Ash, so that's the discount I'm going by). Either guitar may need a setup, so factor that in for both, and I'm not seeing a new CP Jag for $700 anywhere - $800 most places. Savings of $340 if one were to go with the Squier and drop in new PUP's. Speculating on fret wear is pretty tough, and new pots and switches, if necessary, runs around $60. Still $300 saved.

Again, I can see wanting the Fender, but I think your math is off. Anyway, I'll probably get a CP Jag soon myself, so I'll be interested to read your thoughts on it.
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marjoriefish
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Join date: Feb 2013
20 IQ
#24
You're right about the CP Jag being $800 and not $700. But your point about coupons also applies to the Fender so that cancels out.

Still, I think the locking tremolo is a must-have to be gigable. Is the cavity on either one shielded? That's also necessary for a gigging guitar. And that also costs money and time...

So anyway, add back in the tremolo price and the pot price and we're at $180 in savings. Minus the time put into it (and the possible need for shielding) and we're still back to zero or at a loss IMHO.
Last edited by marjoriefish at Feb 20, 2013,
JustRooster
Professionally Crabby
Join date: Jan 2005
514 IQ
#25
Quote by marjoriefish
jetwash69, further thoughts on Squier vs Fender...

A Squier Jaguar is $300. A Fender Jaguar is $700.

I could buy the Squier ($300) and then buy pickups ($200) and a tremolo with arm ($100) and tuners ($50). That's $650 and I haven't even touched the pots and switches yet. Nor I have accounted for my time which also has value. Not to mention the setup ($100). And I have a feeling the frets on the Squier will go bad sooner than the frets on a Fender.

I just don't see the bargain in buying a Squier and upgrading it.



I like you.

Quote by EyeNon15
Thats too bad, I was under the impression I was arguing something profound


Quote by StewieSwan
my eyes are rolling harder than fred durst

SteveHOC
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110 IQ
#26
Fair enough, though I couldn't say about the shielding. I guess $180 is a good savings in my eyes, and since I love working on guitars, the time wouldn't so much bother me. Do you like the CAR over the Sunburst color? I really wish they'd do the CP in Olympic White, that would be my perfect guitar (throw in binding and blocks and I'd never have to buy another guitar).
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JustRooster
Professionally Crabby
Join date: Jan 2005
514 IQ
#29
There are on Ebay

Quote by EyeNon15
Thats too bad, I was under the impression I was arguing something profound


Quote by StewieSwan
my eyes are rolling harder than fred durst

SteveHOC
Used Register
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110 IQ
#30
Well, on a second eBay search, I still didn't find one under $825. My eBay skills must suck.
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marjoriefish
Registered User
Join date: Feb 2013
20 IQ
#31
SteveHOC, Any sunburst guitar just makes me think of hairy men in the 70s like the Doobie Brothers or Creedence and that is like my least favorite thing ever. So yes, I will buy anything but a sunburst.
marjoriefish
Registered User
Join date: Feb 2013
20 IQ
#32
Also, regarding ebay, I'd prefer a store that is a real store with a return policy and without having to use the scam that is PayPal. So, for me personally I won't be buying anything over $50 on ebay.
JustRooster
Professionally Crabby
Join date: Jan 2005
514 IQ
#33
No worries. I was only offering a suggestion. Do you mind if I ask where you live?

Quote by EyeNon15
Thats too bad, I was under the impression I was arguing something profound


Quote by StewieSwan
my eyes are rolling harder than fred durst

jetwash69
Registered User
Join date: May 2008
244 IQ
#34
Quote by marjoriefish
jetwash69, further thoughts on Squier vs Fender...

A Squier Jaguar is $300. A Fender Jaguar is $700.

I could buy the Squier ($300) and then buy pickups ($200) and a tremolo with arm ($100) and tuners ($50). That's $650 and I haven't even touched the pots and switches yet. Nor I have accounted for my time which also has value. Not to mention the setup ($100). And I have a feeling the frets on the Squier will go bad sooner than the frets on a Fender.

I just don't see the bargain in buying a Squier and upgrading it.


Well, then it sounds like the Squier probably isn't for you. It might just need pups, but if you don't enjoy doing that, and aren't saving a lot of money, then why bother?

This might help you decide whether to bother trying one in person or not:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G59sHpVA2f8&feature

As for fret wear, I play my Squier a lot more than my MIA Strat (I like the humbuckers I chose better than the Single Coils Fender chose, but I'm not modding a real Fender), but in the last 7 years neither has significantly more fret wear than the other. Neither has gotten much wear at all over the last 5 years after I learned the hard way to change the strings before they start getting abrasive from oxidation. I do get a green patina forming on the Fender frets, but not on the Squier frets. But your mileage may vary.

Quote by marjoriefish
SteveHOC, Any sunburst guitar just makes me think of hairy men in the 70s like the Doobie Brothers or Creedence and that is like my least favorite thing ever. So yes, I will buy anything but a sunburst.

LOL

They make me think of guys like Hendrix, Clapton (Brownie), SRV (No. 1), and those are some of my favorite things. But the thing with sunbursts is that semi-transparent finishes like that usually do have a strong correlation between cost and quality. Attractive Squier sunbursts are rare, and most of them are awful. I've never seen a good MIM sunburst, while the MIA sunbursts are OK IMHO. But the custom shop and other high-dollar models is where they really look great.
SteveHOC
Used Register
Join date: Jul 2012
110 IQ
#35
I saw a really sharp CP Jag in Sunburst with a mint pickguard someone had dropped in, and I'm thinking I will do the same. CAR is a beautiful color, but maybe a bit too flashy for me. The fretwear thing is an interesting argument, and I'd be interested to hear sources saying that Squiers wear down more quickly (in the CV and VM line). I had a Squier Tele for years that got regular gigging (broke college years) and I never saw significant wear, at least any more significant than the much nicer guitar I alternated with.
OffsetOffset
jetwash69
Registered User
Join date: May 2008
244 IQ
#36
Just realized that the Classic Player series is MIM. MIMs have improved a lot lately (I haven't come across a bad Blacktop series guitar yet), but it's not like you're talking made in China/Indonesia/India vs MIA.

I don't know if they've changed this for the Jaguarillo, but back in 2011 the entire Pawn Shop series was Made in Japan. I'd take MIJ over MIM any day.

Just more food for thought.
SteveHOC
Used Register
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110 IQ
#37
Yeah, I had considered this as well - the MIM lines are getting better in quality, but they are just as hit-or-miss as the Chinese or Indonesian guitars in my experience.

That said, I'd still do the Jag over the Jaguarillo any day of the week, but that's just personal preference.
OffsetOffset
jetwash69
Registered User
Join date: May 2008
244 IQ
#39
Quote by marjoriefish
The Jaguarillo is made in Ensenada, Baja California in Mexico.


Not surprising. Thanks for the update. My Googling found a posting from a Fender moderator dated back in 2011.

BTW, did you ever find out about installing a trem on your Robot? That was you, wasn't it?
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marjoriefish
Registered User
Join date: Feb 2013
20 IQ
#40
I am in fact the one who wants to put a vibrato bar on my Gibson Robot. I've asked many different people, and I've e-mailed Gibson who never e-mailed me back. No one seems to know if it's even possible.
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