Poll: Are video games an artform?
Poll Options
View poll results: Are video games an artform?
Yes
96 51%
No
10 5%
Not inherently, but some games could be considered as such.
75 40%
Mommy doesn't let me rot my brain
8 4%
Voters: 189.
Page 2 of 5
#41
Quote by Reisgar42
You have that the wrong way around. Making a decision about the design based on the content is a very artistic idea.

As a comp sci student, I would say that very much depends on the designer's intent. For instance, if the intent is to create a retro look, that's art. If the intent is to create a game that isn't too graphics-heavy (potentially causing more people to play the game), then it's not art.
#43
Quote by goest
Engineering is not purely related to computers. At all.


I agree with that, but computers are not art. Computers can mimick art (like recorded music, video games, MS Paint), but true art is not made of ones and zeroes.

I am not saying that it takes no effort to create something digital, but you cannot call everything that takes effort art. Example: constipation.
Tomorrow will take us away
Far from home
No one will ever know our names
But the bards' songs will remain
Tomorrow will take it away
The fear of today
It will be gone
Due to our magic songs

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Last edited by jjfeu662 at Feb 24, 2013,
#44
Quote by crazysam23_Atax
As a comp sci student, I would say that very much depends on the designer's intent. For instance, if the intent is to create a retro look, that's art. If the intent is to create a game that isn't too graphics-heavy (potentially causing more people to play the game), then it's not art.

As a music student, I would say it very much depends on the composer's intent. For instance, if the intent is to create a simple texture, that's art. If the intent is to create a song that isn't too heavy (potentially causing more people to listen to it because it's radio friendly), then it's not art.

Ridiculous statement.
#45
Quote by jjfeu662
I agree with that, but computers are not art. Computers can mimick art (like recorded music, video games, MS Paint), but true art is not made of ones and zeroes.

I am not saying that it takes effort to create something digital, but you cannot call everything that takes effort art. Example: constipation.


that'sjustlikeyouropinionman.jpg
#46
Hasn't this thread, with a nearly identical title, been done before?

Quote by jjfeu662
I agree with that, but computers are not art. Computers can mimick art (like recorded music, video games, MS Paint), but true art is not made of ones and zeroes.

I am not saying that it takes no effort to create something digital, but you cannot call everything that takes effort art. Example: constipation.

The ones and zeroes argument is shit. That's just a different number base system. You think "natural" art isn't based around scale and metrics? It is, just in a different number systems. To say that 10-sub-2 is incapable of producing natural art is pretty single-minded.

My point: Any art can be reduced down to numbers, regardless of form.


edit: I'll admit my bias here, though: an ideal future career for me is designing games.
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Last edited by eGraham at Feb 24, 2013,
#47
They incorporate elements of art but on't make it the main focus. Similarily, a D&D board game uses artsy figurines and storylines but is first and foremost a game.
#48
pop music: Call of Doody :: artsier music: Bioshock

(for example)
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#49
Quote by jazz_rock_feel
Ridiculous statement.

No, no, it's not. The intent theory of art is considered just as valid as any other theory about art. Also, music is almost always created with a certain element of artist intent. Video games, not always the case.

Quote by macashmack
Play Braid and tell me that isn't art.

I'm sure it is. But it still, to me, comes down to the designer's intent.
Last edited by crazysam23_Atax at Feb 24, 2013,
#50
Quote by eGraham
Hasn't this thread, with a nearly identical title, been done before?

Yes. Several times, as I recall.

Better question: will discussions of whether something is or is not art ever not be completely asinine?
#51
Quote by crazysam23_Atax
As a comp sci student, I would say that very much depends on the designer's intent. For instance, if the intent is to create a retro look, that's art. If the intent is to create a game that isn't too graphics-heavy (potentially causing more people to play the game), then it's not art.


Why can't a decision fueled by necessity and ease of use become an artistic characteristic? Or are guitarists that tune their instruments (potentially causing more people to listen to their music) all just sellouts as far as you're concerned?
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#52
I don't look at the pit much, so I wouldn't know.

I guess this whole discussion depends on what your definition of art is.
Tomorrow will take us away
Far from home
No one will ever know our names
But the bards' songs will remain
Tomorrow will take it away
The fear of today
It will be gone
Due to our magic songs

ALL HAIL CELESTIA
#53
Quote by Reisgar42
Why can't a decision fueled by necessity and ease of use become an artistic characteristic?

It can, if the intent includes it becoming an artistic characteristic. (Intent can be changed, if done so consciously and not as a "happy accident".)

But, even so, I would call...for instance, the early Mario games art. Those games was supposed to be fun, not have artistic value. On the other hand, the game Bastion could be considered art for its graphics, because the design intent was purposefully created that way.


Or are guitarists that tune their instruments (potentially causing more people to listen to their music) all just sellouts as far as you're concerned?

See #49 for my opinion on music and art as intent. Also, that statement is NOT making a valid comparison, and you know it.
Last edited by crazysam23_Atax at Feb 24, 2013,
#54
Quote by jjfeu662
I agree with that, but computers are not art. Computers can mimick art (like recorded music, video games, MS Paint), but true art is not made of ones and zeroes.

I am not saying that it takes no effort to create something digital, but you cannot call everything that takes effort art. Example: constipation.

So, art (meaning visual art) that is created using a computer is not art simply because the artist chose to use a graphics tablet and Photoshop instead of paint and canvas? Is music not art because the musician chose to use Protools and a digital audio interface instead of a microphone and tape? Is a book not art because the author wrote the book using Microsoft Office instead of pen and paper? Is a movie not art because it was edited using Adobe Premier instead of using a pair of scissors in a dark room?

Technology has made it infinitely easier for artists to do their work. Art created using a computer is no less valid then art created using non-digital means. Simply because a piece of art cannot exist without the use of technology does not mean the art in question is invalid.
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#55
Quote by crazysam23_Atax
It can, if the intent includes it becoming an artistic characteristic. (Intent can be changed, if done so consciously and not as a "happy accident".) But, even so, I would call...for instance, the early Mario games art. The games was supposed to be fun, not have artistic value.


I think you'd be hard-pressed to find a video game designer who didn't want their product to be viewed as art.
#56
Quote by goest
I think you'd be hard-pressed to find a video game designer who didn't want their product to be viewed as art.

Just because someone wants it to be viewed as art, that doesn't mean it is.

It has to be created with the intent, not afterwards have it tagged on that "the game designer wants their product viewed as art".


Besides, I think you'd find a lot of game designers don't really care about graphics as much as things like gameplay.
Last edited by crazysam23_Atax at Feb 24, 2013,
#57
Quote by crazysam23_Atax
Just because someone wants it to be viewed as art, that doesn't mean it is.


Besides, I think you'd find a lot of game designers don't really care about graphics as much as things like gameplay.


Perhaps they want the gameplay to be viewed as a work or art.

Also, throwing it out there that 99% of games are born and molded off of concept art. It's basically digitized, moving drawings.
#58
Quote by goest
Perhaps they want the gameplay to be viewed as a work or art.

Also, throwing it out there that 99% of games are born and molded off of concept art. It's basically digitized, moving drawings.

See my edit.
#59
I'd argue that the mechanics and build of a game rival the artsiness of the visual parts.

I don't know about you guys, but a nice set of source code can be beautiful to me.
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#60
Quote by crazysam23_Atax
See my edit.


That's what I'm saying though. I think you'd be hard pressed to find a game designer who doesn't go into his work without the intention of creating art.
#61
Quote by goest
That's what I'm saying though. I think you'd be hard pressed to find a game designer who doesn't go into his work without the intention of creating art.

Well, I could agree with that to a point. But even so, as I said about the early Mario games, I wouldn't consider those art.
#62
I would. Primitive art, perhaps, but art nonetheless.
Quote by Trowzaa
I wish I was American.

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#63
Quote by crazysam23_Atax
Just because someone wants it to be viewed as art, that doesn't mean it is.

It has to be created with the intent, not afterwards have it tagged on that "the game designer wants their product viewed as art".


Besides, I think you'd find a lot of game designers don't really care about graphics as much as things like gameplay.

The author is dead; you will never know what his intentions were; stop trying to use intent to make the idea of 'art' exclusive
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#64
Quote by Brick23
The author is dead; you will never know what his intentions were; stop trying to use intent to make the idea of 'art' exclusive

Stop trying to broaden it out to where everything is "art", including the sandwich I made with the intention of eating it.
Last edited by crazysam23_Atax at Feb 24, 2013,
#65
Quote by Godsmack_IV
They incorporate elements of art but on't make it the main focus. Similarily, a D&D board game uses artsy figurines and storylines but is first and foremost a game.

Many games nowadays (such as Metal Gear Solid) contain more cut scenes than gameplay though.
Quote by goest
I think you'd be hard-pressed to find a video game designer who didn't want their product to be viewed as art.

Ironically, Hideo Kojima (MGS) does not believe video games can ever be art.
Quote by Reisgar42
Video games are a combination of visual art, narrative, and music. Video games themselves are not inherently art, but they are a collection of art put together in a (hopefully) unified way that can be interpreted as an artistic statement.

What about film?
Quote by jjfeu662
Video games are created digitally and are a form of science.

Is a symphonic orchestral piece of music composed on an electronic music program not art, then?

Is graphic design not art?
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#66
Quote by crazysam23_Atax
Stop trying to broaden it out to where everything is "art", including the sandwich I made with the intention of eating it.

Don't sell yourself short
#67
Quote by crazysam23_Atax
Stop trying to broaden it out to where everything is "art", including the sandwich I made with the intention of eating it.


what if i just love sandwiches, and you happened to make an amazing one without being able to fully appreciate it? art is a personal thing, so anything could be art to varying degrees, to anyone, and it makes little sense to label things as "art" or "not art."

like eGraham said, he is able to find source code artistic. i will always see it as something too utilitarian to be regarded as artistic on the level of my favorite music, but i won't deny that it can be beautiful in some sort of vaguely artistic way.
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#68
Game mechanics at their very core stand in the way of artistic expression. Instead of being expressive in of themselves, they compel the participant to create an experience. At most they are potentials for artistic expression; more akin to a paintbrush and canvas than the actual painting.
#69
I never got the idea that some games are more art than other games. Either they're all art, or none of them are. Being "artsy" has nothing to do with being or not being art, if that makes any sense.
#70
Quote by Godsmack_IV
Game mechanics at their very core stand in the way of artistic expression. Instead of being expressive in of themselves, they compel the participant to create an experience. At most they are potentials for artistic expression; more akin to a paintbrush and canvas than the actual painting.


I disagree with this. They've created art that you then become a part of. Especially in open-world games, where they've built a world out of nothing but imagination and now give you the means to create your own experience with said art. It's like one big installation piece.
#71
Quote by vIsIbleNoIsE
what if i just love sandwiches, and you happened to make an amazing one without being able to fully appreciate it?

Then if I made you a sandwich with the intent that it be art (albeit "consumable art"), then it is art.
#72
Quote by Jackintehbox
I never got the idea that some games are more art than other games. Either they're all art, or none of them are. Being "artsy" has nothing to do with being or not being art, if that makes any sense.


I know this has already been said, but it really depends on what you define as art. Some games certainly are created with the intent to be appreciated for themselves and not for the money they make. Others are there to sell. While it doesn't rule it out as art if the artist wants to make money off his art, if the intent is money then I see that as where it ceases to be art. Some games definitely meet that criteria while others seek to do something new, spark emotions within the player, or change the way games are made. Also the fact that your title says UG Newbie and you joined in 2007 is amusing.
#73
Quote by Gibson_SG_uzr55
Many games nowadays (such as Metal Gear Solid) contain more cut scenes than gameplay though.


Don't remind me.

MGS4 was a great game but horrible movie.

Anyways, cutscenes are not inherent to video games like game mechanics are. You can take the cutscenes out of the game and still have a video game but if you were to take the game mechanics out then you would just have a movie.
#74
Quote by Jackintehbox
I never got the idea that some games are more art than other games. Either they're all art, or none of them are. Being "artsy" has nothing to do with being or not being art, if that makes any sense.

Also this. No one has the authority to decide what pieces of a particular medium are art and which are not. A medium either is art, or it is not art.
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#75
Quote by Godsmack_IV
Don't remind me.

MGS4 was a great game but horrible movie.

You don't respect the funk...now die!
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What happened to Snake?

Snake?

Snake?

SNAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAKE?!


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you can take my mouse and keyboard from my cold, slightly orange from cheetos, dead fingers


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Isis is amazing
#76
Quote by Gibson_SG_uzr55
What about film?


I don't often see film used as a component of video games, so I didn't include it. You could make an argument for cutscenes but I don't really think they're different enough from the rest of the animation used during gameplay to be called something different.

Or, if you're asking if I see film as a composite as well, I do. Films themselves are not inherently art but the framework does lend itself to similar potential.

Quote by crazysam23_Atax
See #49 for my opinion on music and art as intent. Also, that statement is NOT making a valid comparison, and you know it.


How isn't it? I'd argue that a developer that doesn't put in the effort to optimize a program is comparable to a musician who doesn't put in the effort to make sure his instrument is tuned. Using graphics that are simplified and less taxing on a system is a very simple way to optimize, and it can be used as an artistic element.

You seem to be saying that if the motivation behind a decision isn't entirely based in art, then the entire product cannot be art, and that is a ridiculous standpoint.
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#78
Quote by crazysam23_Atax
Then if I made you a sandwich with the intent that it be art (albeit "consumable art"), then it is art.


did the composer of the tunes for the Mario games (which you said you don't regard as art) make art? he wasn't composing for the sake of art (again, by your standards only). if you don't agree that the Mario music is art in itself, then we fundamentally disagree beyond hope so it's all good.
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#79
Quote by Reisgar42
You seem to be saying that if the motivation behind a decision isn't entirely based in art, then the entire product cannot be art, and that is a ridiculous standpoint.

And why is that a ridiculous standpoint? It's just as valid as any other theory of art.


It doesn't have to be entirely based in art, btw. It just has to have that as one of the main considerations. I would argue that, more often than not, gameplay is the main consideration and art is a secondary consideration.

Quote by vIsIbleNoIsE
did the composer of the tunes for the Mario games (which you said you don't regard as art) make art? he wasn't composing for the sake of art (again, by your standards only).

Actually, I never said SOLELY for the sake of art. (You guys seem to think that I think the one and only consideration has to be whether it was intended to be art. As I said to Resigar, it has to be one of the main considerations.) But, as I said in post #49., music always has an intent to be art, even if it's a very simple style of music like the music of the Mario games.
Last edited by crazysam23_Atax at Feb 24, 2013,
#80
Quote by crazysam23_Atax

It doesn't have to be entirely based in art, btw. It just has to have that as one of the main considerations. I would argue that, more often than not, gameplay is the main consideration and art is a secondary consideration.


What about times when the gameplay is intended to constitute art? What about when the art influences gameplay?

I think what you're presenting is a bit of a false dichotomy imo.