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#1
Hi everyone,

In 2011 I bought my first guitar, a Squire Bulletstrat for 130$. Thats when I discovered my passion for guitar. Now I want to upgrate my pickups.

Guitar
This guitar has very nice wood parts, the body (basswood) has a very nice sunburst and the neck is unfinished (you can feel the wood) but the frets are great ant I had it set up when I bought it. (I prefer this guitar's feeling then my father's 1600$ lespaul, but that may be because I'm used to my setup)
The tuners and the brige are bad, but I will live with it. What I want to change are the pickups, they sound great through my fender super champ tube amp, but they have no harmonics.

The sound I need
I am searching for pickups that could give me a more vintage, bluesy clean tone.
I like tones like, Hendrix, Fusciante, Mayer...
Unfortunately I am not going to pay more then I paid for the guitar.

My idea
...is this: http://www.ironstone-pickups.co.uk/vintage-Alnico-pickup-range

But I don't know which to choose...
Thank you for your suggestions.
#2
my idea instead of dropping 250 on pups drop 250 on a used mim all your problems will be solved, their great guitars. i own an american model strat and i never play it because i play my mim all the time. and i play mayer and hendrix all the time on it. mayers exact sound you cant get without big dippers but it will be fairly close. then your bridge and tuner problem will be solved also.

note:getting cheap pups is a bad idea trust me when i say you really do get what you pay for, i paid 30 usd for a replacement single and it sounded like a tin can...

best advice. just buy a mim. from someone who runs a music store and has been playing more than half his life, you really cant go wrong
#3
Quote by randywolf244
my idea instead of dropping 250 on pups drop 250 on a used mim all your problems will be solved, their great guitars. i own an american model strat and i never play it because i play my mim all the time. and i play mayer and hendrix all the time on it. mayers exact sound you cant get without big dippers but it will be fairly close. then your bridge and tuner problem will be solved also.

note:getting cheap pups is a bad idea trust me when i say you really do get what you pay for, i paid 30 usd for a replacement single and it sounded like a tin can...

best advice. just buy a mim. from someone who runs a music store and has been playing more than half his life, you really cant go wrong


This.
Legion!
Original 1969 Fender Jazzmaster
Jackson JS32R Dinky "Curry"
ESP/LTD SN-1000
Jackson Stars Kelly "Aiko"
Ormsby SX6 prototype
Dingwall NG-2 "Kimmy"
MiM Fender Jazz Bass "Pancho"
EVH 5153
#4
You aren't going to find many decent pickups for less than a hundred on a full set bro sorry.
#5
Quote by randywolf244
my idea instead of dropping 250 on pups drop 250 on a used mim all your problems will be solved, their great guitars. i own an american model strat and i never play it because i play my mim all the time. and i play mayer and hendrix all the time on it. mayers exact sound you cant get without big dippers but it will be fairly close. then your bridge and tuner problem will be solved also.

note:getting cheap pups is a bad idea trust me when i say you really do get what you pay for, i paid 30 usd for a replacement single and it sounded like a tin can...

best advice. just buy a mim. from someone who runs a music store and has been playing more than half his life, you really cant go wrong


Thank you, I agree with you, I am looking to buy a used MIM, but I am waiting to find the good one because I can't afford a new one... yet. I already paid 220$ on an user tube amp (super champ).

But as an electrotechnician, I know that a pickup is very cheap to make. The main difference is that they use ALNICO wich is more expensive, but even the most expensive magnet, like neodium, is not wort more than a few bucks in a pickup...

I will eventually buy a MIM, I just wanted to make my Squire sound better.
#6
Quote by s-h-a-w-n


But as an electrotechnician, I know that a pickup is very cheap to make. The main difference is that they use ALNICO wich is more expensive, but even the most expensive magnet, like neodium, is not wort more than a few bucks in a pickup...



THen you best get to making bud.
#7
Quote by engage757
THen you best get to making bud.


True lol
I have been thinking about it, that would be a nice project.
#9
Check out Axesrus, IronGear and Tonerider for affordable pickups that will sound noticably better than the stock ones. However, you need to remember that pickups can only do so much. Most of your tone is dictated by your amplifier and then the guitar itself. Pickups can only lightly colour and tweak your tone. If you only want to make a small change, go ahead; if you are unhappy with your fundamental sound then a pickup change isn't going to be anything more than a waste of money.
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#11
GFS has very affordable pups, but they're hit and miss.

If you're going to wind your own, Stewmac.com has everthing you need.

It's a shame y'all didn't spend about $25 more and get an Affinity Squier instead of the Bullet, because then the bridge would be fine and you'd only need the pups and tuners. Oh, well.

If you're going to replace the guitar while you're on a budget, you might want to check out the higher end Squiers like the Vintage Modifieds or the Classic Vibes. Some of them are better than many used MIMs. For a while up until around 2008 or so, the MIMs had major QC issues, and often the Squiers had better necks. All of them are better now.

I'm with Flibble regarding the amp being the most important part of the tone. Yet, the factory pups in low-end Squiers are so God-awful that when you upgrade them you can really hear the difference, even with a low-end solid state amp. It'll be a much bigger difference with a tube amp.
Quote by shiggityswah

Welcome to UG. Everyone here will piss you off at some point, it's just what we do.
#12
Quote by MrFlibble
Check out Axesrus, IronGear and Tonerider for affordable pickups that will sound noticably better than the stock ones. However, you need to remember that pickups can only do so much. Most of your tone is dictated by your amplifier and then the guitar itself. Pickups can only lightly colour and tweak your tone.
If you only want to make a small change, go ahead; if you are unhappy with your fundamental sound then a pickup change isn't going to be anything more than a waste of money.



#13
Quote by engage757

Are you laughing with him or at him?

I mean, it's a bit of a generalization and doesn't hold up at the extremes, but clearly amps are a bigger part of the equation than the pickups.
Quote by shiggityswah

Welcome to UG. Everyone here will piss you off at some point, it's just what we do.
#14
Quote by engage757


What, do you think a pickup change can make a Strat sound like a Les Paul or something?

It's differences that a trained or tuned hear will benefit from because it's slight changes in frequency and the tonal properties different materials in the pickups give you.

Comparing a stock Tele Bridge to an Air Norton will be different as they are at different ends of the spectrum, but ask a lay person to notice the difference between a Lace Gold (nice pickups) and a stock Strat anico V and they won't be able to. For us, it's a different matter, but sometimes it's still not that noticeable for anyone but the person who bought them.
Quote by Shredwizard445
Go ahead and spend your money, I don't care. It won't make you sound better.


Quote by Shredwizard445
Sure upgrading your gear will make you sound better.


#15
The signal going to the amp is going through the pickups. Yes, the amp is a huge part of tone, obviously, but pickups are a HUGE differentiating factor in the frequencies coming FROM the instrument. Coloring tone is a pretty gross understatement. There are a LOT of factors that create good tone, but "coloring" is more about the fretboard woods and fret material, as opposed to the pickups!
#16
Colouring is just a term to describe the nuance of one tone from another, it can be used to describe dark or bright tones or just to highlight that tones sound different.

I think he meant the second one. It's all bullshit anyway, using colours to describe sounds is subjective.
Quote by Shredwizard445
Go ahead and spend your money, I don't care. It won't make you sound better.


Quote by Shredwizard445
Sure upgrading your gear will make you sound better.


#17
basswood isn't famous for its pronounced harmonics... its much more mellow, ash however is.
---
#18
Might try a loaded pickguard from one of the online stores. Cheap,easy, and an improvement over stock. I like modding Squires myself but I wouldn't get into expensive pup sets with one.
#19
I don't know if craigslist exists in England, but over here you can get a 90s Mexican for 250 all day
#20
Quote by engage757
The signal going to the amp is going through the pickups. Yes, the amp is a huge part of tone, obviously, but pickups are a HUGE differentiating factor in the frequencies coming FROM the instrument. Coloring tone is a pretty gross understatement. There are a LOT of factors that create good tone, but "coloring" is more about the fretboard woods and fret material, as opposed to the pickups!


Unless you're playing unplugged, or we're talking about a guitar with microphonic pickups, the fretboard woods are not going to be a factor. Go perform fourier analysis testing on pickup output from 2 guitars of the same make/model with the different neck wood options and try to tell me I'm wrong.

As far as pickups go, there will be huge difference between humbuckers and single coils, and low output vs. high output, and types of magnets, but you can mitigate a lot of that with amp settings.

The bottom line is the TS might need to spend more on new pups than his guitar cost to get the kind of results he's looking for.

Quote by cdhowell
Might try a loaded pickguard from one of the online stores. Cheap,easy, and an improvement over stock. I like modding Squires [sic] myself but I wouldn't get into expensive pup sets with one.

Have you changed guards in Squiers before? If so, what did you come across? In my experience, other than the Standard model, most have extremely loose tolerances for pickguard dimensions and screwhole locations. I had to have a custom guard fabricated when I upgraded my Affinity. The problem is they're made in so many different factories with little standardization. You might get lucky and find a direct fit, but most likely you'd have to re-drill a few screw holes. Worst case is the guard won't even fit between the fingerboard and the bridge.
Quote by shiggityswah

Welcome to UG. Everyone here will piss you off at some point, it's just what we do.
Last edited by jetwash69 at Mar 2, 2013,
#21
It's a bloody false economy is what it bloody is!!!
Quote by Shredwizard445
Go ahead and spend your money, I don't care. It won't make you sound better.


Quote by Shredwizard445
Sure upgrading your gear will make you sound better.


#22
Quote by jetwash69



Have you changed guards in Squiers before? If so, what did you come across? In my experience, other than the Standard model, most have extremely loose tolerances for pickguard dimensions and screwhole locations. I had to have a custom guard fabricated when I upgraded my Affinity. The problem is they're made in so many different factories with little standardization. You might get lucky and find a direct fit, but most likely you'd have to re-drill a few screw holes. Worst case is the guard won't even fit between the fingerboard and the bridge.


I ordered from a site online with a squire section. It was a direct swap. Will look up paperwork when I get back for site name. Affinity series as well.
#23
Quote by cdhowell
I ordered from a site online with a squire section. It was a direct swap. Will look up paperwork when I get back for site name. Affinity series as well.

Cool. Standing by. I like to be aware of options. Custom guard cost about $25 more than the stock ones would have. I needed it in an HH config, so I might have needed to special order that anyway.
Quote by shiggityswah

Welcome to UG. Everyone here will piss you off at some point, it's just what we do.
#24
Quote by jetwash69
Cool. Standing by. I like to be aware of options. Custom guard cost about $25 more than the stock ones would have. I needed it in an HH config, so I might have needed to special order that anyway.


agreed, though i found an even worse surprise when i opened oneup in the shop. someone brought it in cause they had just ordered it from musicians friend new and it sounded funny. well there was a MASSIVE mess of wires prolly 10 feet. and none of the wiring was going to the right places, not to mention that none of the sauders were set in well.
#25
Quote by MrFlibble
Check out Axesrus, IronGear and Tonerider for affordable pickups that will sound noticably better than the stock ones. However, you need to remember that pickups can only do so much. Most of your tone is dictated by your amplifier and then the guitar itself. Pickups can only lightly colour and tweak your tone. If you only want to make a small change, go ahead; if you are unhappy with your fundamental sound then a pickup change isn't going to be anything more than a waste of money.


Flibble, right as always.

I've used IronGear pickups myself, replacing the stock pups in an Epi LP, and they were noticeably better than the stock ones, though with Epi stock pups that's not saying much.

I'm very tempted to throw a set in my old strat copy too. My first electric, and I've actually been playing it quite a bit recently for a spot of Dire Straits. Ever since I shimmed the neck in an effort to get a better action, it's been playing far better than it has any right to. So I think perhaps it deserves a nice electronics upgrade. Plus it's been too long since I soldered anything...
#26
Quote by jetwash69
Unless you're playing unplugged, or we're talking about a guitar with microphonic pickups, the fretboard woods are not going to be a factor. Go perform fourier analysis testing on pickup output from 2 guitars of the same make/model with the different neck wood options and try to tell me I'm wrong.

As far as pickups go, there will be huge difference between humbuckers and single coils, and low output vs. high output, and types of magnets, but you can mitigate a lot of that with amp settings.

The bottom line is the TS might need to spend more on new pups than his guitar cost to get the kind of results he's looking for.





My God. We ARE TALKING ABOUT AN ELECTRIC GUITAR.

Here, enjoy:

http://www.petelacis.com/2010/07/08/alder-vs-swamp-ash-maple-vs-rosewood-and-a-neck-swap-the-definitive-comparison-with-audio-clips/

http://www.guitarplayer.com/article/all-about-tonewoods/6502
#27


You're both wrong and you're both sort of right.

Look, if you take a Squier Strat, remove the stock pickups from it and put in higher-quality versions of the same sort of pickup, it's still going to sound like a Squier Strat. If you put in significantly different pickups in it then you're going to get a bigger difference in the type of sound you get, but it will still sound like a Strat.
If you rip the humbuckers out of a Gibson Les Paul and put them in a Strat body and replace the neck with thick mahogany one... it will still sound like a Strat. It will sound like a Strat with humbuckers shoved in it, sure, but it will sound like a Strat nonetheless.

I've got a Telecaster. It is 24.75" scale with a 1" thick one-piece rosewood neck. The pickups in it are hugely overwound, significantly different in spec to normal Fender Telecaster pickups. What does it sound like? Well, like a normal Telecaster, only it will break up a small amp (<5w) very, very slightly sooner. Why does it still sound like a regular Tele when both the neck and pickups are so vastly different? Because it's a Tele. It has a Tele's body mass, it has a Tele's bridge, it has a Tele's controls, the Tele's bolt-on construction, a Tele's straight headstock and is made of ash like most other Tele's. The neck is different, the pickups are different; the sound is, for all intents and purpsoes, the same.

Point being, if you are unhappy with your basic tone then a pickup change will not help. Neither will getting a neck with a different fretboard material, or swapping the bridge saddles for ones made of a different metal, or changing a pot for one of another value, or any of that stuff.
If you think your tone sucks then you almost certainly need to change amp. If you're sure your amp is appropriate for the kind of tone you're trying to get but you're not actually getting results anywhere close to what you want then chances are the guitar itself is fundamentally wrong for you. If you're sure both your amp and guitar are appropriate but you're miles off the tone you want, chance are you've simply got everything set up incorrectly for the tone you're trying to achieve.
If you are 100% sure your amp and guitar are suitable, that you have a good working knowledge of both pieces of equipment and you can be certain you have set them appropriately, then is the time to be thinking about swapping pickups or a different pot value or whatever other tiny tweaks you wish to make.
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#28
Quote by engage757


I was enthusiastic when I saw the clips on the first one. I was getting ready to run fourier analysis for you and post the graphs. Then when I heard the clips, I realized it would be inconclusive because they had the guitars playing songs instead of just steady notes.

If you want conclusive proof, you need to set up a machine to do the plucking and fretting to make sure it's done with consistent pressure and location. Also you need to verify they strings have been stretched equally (and not re-used between tests).

It's great that this test used the same 2 bodies and swapped necks, but that's about where the scientific rigor stopped. He didn't even say whether he re-intonated for each neck. Also, the intonation could be off between the two bodies. That will affect perceived tone, also. Sorry, but this test wouldn't even be rigorous enough for a junior high science fair experiment.

As for the Dave Hunter article, you can find thousands of articles, UG threads (stickies even), and manufacturer guides saying similar stuff. Did you know that Mr. Hunter has been employed by the Gibson guitar company’s marketing department? Guitar companies (especially custom manufacturers like Warmoth) have a conflict of interest in this matter. If people believe the woods, mass, and shape of the guitar make a difference in tone, then they have more reason to buy more guitars. And they can justify paying more money for perceived premium woods. Gibson and the other big guys typically charge hundreds (sometimes thousands) more for "premium" wood options, whereas Warmoth typically has a $100 difference between their cheapest and most expensive woods.

Now, Mr. Hunter isn't totally wrong. What he said certainly applies to the semi-hollow bodies due to their intentionally microphonic pups. It can even apply a little bit to solid bodies if the pickups have gone microphonic (like if they weren't potted well enough, or if they developed a flaw).

If you want to believe marketing hype, then go for it. I have enough experience in industry to know there's usually a big gap between what the engineers know about the product and what marketing says to try to move product.

Incidentally, I find it amusing that Pete Lacis is also a PR guy.

The real factors within the guitar itself are scale length, string gauge, string design/material, pickups, pickup placement, and bridge/saddle design/materials. Frets are a minor player, and the nut can be a factor for open notes.

This is clearly a hot topic. I believe the reason it gets so emotional is many people feel ripped off if it turns out that the extra money they spent for a certain type/grade of wood or brand name/quality level of guitar can't be objectively justified. That plays on several biases and they seek information to confirm their biases and disregard data that counters them.

Personally, I've got a reasonable range of guitars with Squier and Schecter at the bottom and MIA/MIJ Fenders and an MIJ Ibanez at the top. I can get the tones I want out of all of them, and I don't feel like the extra amounts I paid for the higher end ones were wasted, because I appreciate their craftsmanship and aesthetics. Granted, the Squier needed some modifications to pass muster, and the Schecter's LFR bridge needs new saddles (and I upgraded its pups, too). So I can also appreciate the shortcomings of the lower-end guitars as well.

Believe what you want to believe on this. Attaining 100% consensus on this issue would be like solving world hunger--it's not going to happen in one thread no matter what any of us posts. Hopefully this provides more information for people to make up their own minds.
Quote by shiggityswah

Welcome to UG. Everyone here will piss you off at some point, it's just what we do.
Last edited by jetwash69 at Mar 3, 2013,
#29
JetWash,

What is your experience?
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#30
Quote by Shadowofravenwo
JetWash,

What is your experience?


What kind of experience are you referring to?

Edit:
- 7+ years playing
- Started on an acoustic
- Have 6 electric guitars with the following characteristics
-- Woods:
--- 2 Alder
--- 2 Mahogany
--- 1 Basswood
--- 1 Poplar
-- Necks:
--- 4 Rosewood fretboards
--- 2 Maple fretboards
--- (5 bolt-on, 1 neck-through)
-- Pup configs:
--- 1 SSS
--- 1 SS
--- 1 HSH
--- 3 HH (1 with a Sustainiac I installed in the neck position)
- I've owned 3 solid-state amps, and one all-tube halfstack, and modified some of them
- I've played hundreds of guitars and amps in guitar stores across the country
- I've built isolation booths
- I set up a basement recording studio
- I've done home recording
- I've done fourier testing on guitar tones
- I designed (and implemented) an adaptation of the Fender S-1 system for an HH guitar with 2 volume controls and 2 tone controls
- I've done several pickup swaps and other mods
- I spent a summer working as a carpenter in a factory
- I used to be a CAD operator working with electrical/mechanical blueprints (power plants, FedEx conveyor systems, etc)
- One of my Master's degrees is in Aerospace Science
- My employer has sent me to postgraduate business classes at 5 business schools

Does that answer your question?
Quote by shiggityswah

Welcome to UG. Everyone here will piss you off at some point, it's just what we do.
Last edited by jetwash69 at Mar 4, 2013,
#31
Now you're just spergin' worse than me.
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#32
A pair of expensive pickups is not really worth it unless you have a nice amplifier..If the amplifier you have now is great,then I guess it wouldn't be a bad idea to replace them....But what I would do is look for some reasonably priced pickups,and invest in some Guitar software like Guitar Rig..Or the very least decent interface($50-$100) cheaper if they are used...and maybe *cough* torrent *cough* guitar rig. You will get an amazing vintage tone running your guitar with some decent pickups...I can see it already...MHM...that would be nice
#34
Your guitar is a piece of shit. Im sorry, but it is. Not even close to being worth spending money on to upgrade it, because the amount you'd be spending could get you an actually decent guitar.
Quote by yellowfrizbee
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#35
Quote by MrFlibble
Now you're just spergin' worse than me.



Who's ???

I'm just being thorough.

If I were really obssessive about this, I'd build guitars out of several different woods, metal (hollow and solid), and fricken concrete, a robot to strum them, and then post clips and fourier graphs.

Quote by Acϵ♠
Your guitar is a piece of shit. Im sorry, but it is. Not even close to being worth spending money on to upgrade it, because the amount you'd be spending could get you an actually decent guitar.


Acϵ♠, I know those long winters can be tough up there in the Great White North. This site might have some stuff that can help you out: http://www.fullspectrumsolutions.com/light_therapy_13_ct.htm?gclid=CMLtmv7A5LUCFYtU4AodfQMAPg

Just kidding. For a second there, your post made me think we were in the Pit instead of the Electric Guitar forum. Maybe this should be in the GB&C forum? Anyway...

Remember, though, if you replace all the Bullet components with MIA Deluxe components (you can do that with everything but the trem), it will still cost less than a new MIM, but it will have much better parts. If TS bought a MIM, he might still need to replace the pups and tuners.

If I bought an MIA Deluxe, I'd probably still change the pups. Except that would hurt the value, so that's why I don't have an MIA Deluxe in the first place, and why I don't play my MIA Standard as much as some of my other guitars--I don't want to hurt the value on that either. BTW, my Squier is holding up much better than my Schecter, even though it gets played a lot more than the Schecter. (Oops, forgot this isn't the Pit again).
Quote by shiggityswah

Welcome to UG. Everyone here will piss you off at some point, it's just what we do.
Last edited by jetwash69 at Mar 4, 2013,
#37
Quote by Acϵ♠
Your guitar is a piece of shit. Im sorry, but it is. Not even close to being worth spending money on to upgrade it, because the amount you'd be spending could get you an actually decent guitar.



OBEY THE MIGHTY SHITKICKER
#38
Quote by engage757
Say what you want, but it is well known that the material of the guitar changes the tone. Otherwise, we would all be playing pressed wood guitars. And as for MY experience, just check out my past threads on ss.org.

http://www.sevenstring.org/forum/members/engage757.html


Yeah, and it's also "well known" that carrots improve your eyesight.

Too bad that was a myth made up by the Brits in WWII to sell the Germans on the lie that their pilots could see the German planes in the dark. Because they wanted to keep RADAR secret.

There are several actual reasons we don't play pressed wood guitars:
- Pressed wood is not durable enough (learned that in my carpentry days)
- Pressed wood does not have an attractive appearance

Neither your experience or mine have any correlation to the physics involved in this matter. We also don't affect the psychology the guitar companies exploit with the myths they crafted to artificially expand the market, and to increase their unit margins.

I'm all for any company being profitable, creating jobs, and offering products which enhance our lives. I can even forgive their self-serving marketing (caveat emptor). But there's no need to be naive about it.

I only listed my experience since you asked. I'm not going to bother clicking on your "experience," since it's not relevant. I'll bet you wouldn't link to it if it didn't put me to shame, so you just keep on being the expert, regurgitating the hype to prevent appearing unfit for your courtly position. I'll just keep being UG's little kid who's so "hopelessly stupid" that he keeps blurting out that the Emperor is wearing nothing at all.

I've been wrong before, and I'll be wrong again. If I'm wrong this time, then so be it. And I've been called a lot worse than "stupid", especially on UG.

P.S., I'm sorry if the only purpose of your last post was to get in the last word. If that's what you want, feel free to post again, and I won't reply unless you ask me a direct question.
Quote by shiggityswah

Welcome to UG. Everyone here will piss you off at some point, it's just what we do.
#39
Quote by jetwash69
Yeah, and it's also "well known" that carrots improve your eyesight.

Too bad that was a myth made up by the Brits in WWII to sell the Germans on the lie that their pilots could see the German planes in the dark. Because they wanted to keep RADAR secret.

There are several actual reasons we don't play pressed wood guitars:
- Pressed wood is not durable enough (learned that in my carpentry days)
- Pressed wood does not have an attractive appearance

Neither your experience or mine have any correlation to the physics involved in this matter. We also don't affect the psychology the guitar companies exploit with the myths they crafted to artificially expand the market, and to increase their unit margins.

I'm all for any company being profitable, creating jobs, and offering products which enhance our lives. I can even forgive their self-serving marketing (caveat emptor). But there's no need to be naive about it.

I only listed my experience since you asked. I'm not going to bother clicking on your "experience," since it's not relevant. I'll bet you wouldn't link to it if it didn't put me to shame, so you just keep on being the expert, regurgitating the hype to prevent appearing unfit for your courtly position. I'll just keep being UG's little kid who's so "hopelessly stupid" that he keeps blurting out that the Emperor is wearing nothing at all.

I've been wrong before, and I'll be wrong again. If I'm wrong this time, then so be it. And I've been called a lot worse than "stupid", especially on UG.

P.S., I'm sorry if the only purpose of your last post was to get in the last word. If that's what you want, feel free to post again, and I won't reply unless you ask me a direct question.


I could care less about the last word and I didn't call you stupid man! But I will say, that after almost 400 guitars, I have a pretty good idea of what is going on.

It is VERY well known that wood effects a TON tonally on a guitar.
#40
I feel very bad for your ears if you can't tell the difference between tone woods by just listening to them.
OBEY THE MIGHTY SHITKICKER
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