#2
Hear the intervals, learn/sing them descending and ascending all day long, the scale degrees will come once you can relate what you hear to a tonic.
#3
what if the melody's outside the scale
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#4
The functional ear trainer, a free download from miles.be, will help you work on this problem.

I didn't find interval training to helpful for this.
#5
If I can't recognize the notes of a melody within a scale then there's no purpose in trying to practice recognizing the notes of a melody outside a scale.

Starting small first.

Thank you Gold I appreciate the advice.

EDIT:

Okay so I tried the functional ear trainer.





Is there any way for me to change the tonal center to a 2 3 4 or 5 instead of just Major & Minor? Those are the ones I'm having trouble with.
Last edited by dannydawiz at Mar 4, 2013,
#7
Quote by dannydawiz

Is there any way for me to change the tonal center to a 2 3 4 or 5 instead of just Major & Minor? Those are the ones I'm having trouble with.

Tonal center = 1
^^The above is a Cryptic Metaphor^^


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#8
Besides just listening to tones I would suggest learning solfege as in Do Re Mi Fa Sol La Ti Do and all its chromatic bits as well. It has really helped my and in sight reading a piece of music. Also knowing the intervals of the major or minor scale and knowing where they would occur would help. For instance I know 5 to 3 in major key is a minor third (like when you call somebody's name in a sing song manner) and that helps me identify where the scale degrees are. In fact, when teaching elementary music, at least where I have observed and taught, it is customary to start learning and identifying solfege on Sol Mi and La (the basis of a crap ton of children's music)...just some thoughts
#9
Quote by dannydawiz
If I can't recognize the notes of a melody within a scale then there's no purpose in trying to practice recognizing the notes of a melody outside a scale.


I think the chromatics are MUCH harder. This is a good starting place.

Is there any way for me to change the tonal center to a 2 3 4 or 5 instead of just Major & Minor? Those are the ones I'm having trouble with.


Uh, you need the tonal center, and major and minor are different. I wouldn't actually use this part of the interface. I would use the "learn the method" section, working with the major scale, rather than the "practice" section. Work through the whole thing, start at the beginning.

I don't think you can restrict it to certain scale degrees, but that's fine. Having more options makes you have to work harder. eg, for a long time I was fine at recognizing 6ths - but the moment chromatic notes were present suddenly I struggled with them. When you start doing tests in a larger tone range, you may find that you have trouble distinguishing between, say, a 7th an octave or two below the tonic with a 2nd close to the same tonic.
#10
Quote by rockingamer2
Tonal center = 1
This. Always. Unless you have a secondary dominant, but that's only a temporary tonicization. It's not a modulation.
Only play what you hear. If you don’t hear anything, don’t play anything.
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#12
Quote by slap-a-bass
then you'll be using borrowed chords or chords from a mode

go fucking die in a hole
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#14
you make me want to throw my bass out of a window
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#16
Quote by Hail
you make me want to throw my bass out of a window


no im not here to do that lol dont you ****ing put that on me! besides, if youre playing bass don't worry about chords just hold the roots, in or out of scale
#18
Quote by slap-a-bass
no im not here to do that lol dont you ****ing put that on me! besides, if youre playing bass don't worry about chords just hold the roots, in or out of scale

Who says bass can't play chords? What?


TS, How could the scale degree 2 be the scale degree 1? I don't understand I'm sorry about that. You mean as if the scale degree 2 in a major key acting as the scale degree 1? Well, it's no different it'll just sound like the tonic.
#19
Quote by macashmack
Who says bass can't play chords? What?


TS, How could the scale degree 2 be the scale degree 1? I don't understand I'm sorry about that. You mean as if the scale degree 2 in a major key acting as the scale degree 1? Well, it's no different it'll just sound like the tonic.


True but the scale degrees of the notes that come after the tonic become completely different and that's what I'm training my ear to recognize.
#20
Quote by slap-a-bass
no im not here to do that lol dont you ****ing put that on me! besides, if youre playing bass don't worry about chords just hold the roots, in or out of scale


i think i'm hyperventilating....
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#22
Quote by slap-a-bass
Of course you can play chords with bass but if youre dealing with modes youre not comfortable with in the first place, why bother


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#23
Quote by slap-a-bass
Of course you can play chords with bass but if youre dealing with modes youre not comfortable with in the first place, why bother


Those things you call modes are actually use of accidentals. Either way they are not relevant to the thread about recognising scale degrees.
And no, Guitar Hero will not help. Even on expert. Really.
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#24
Quote by Hail
you make me want to throw my bass out of a window


Do it, and by doing so show him what a dick he is and how his parents don't love him and he was adopted twice and stuff.
#25
Quote by dannydawiz
True but the scale degrees of the notes that come after the tonic become completely different and that's what I'm training my ear to recognize.

Not really that different. Dorian is the same as minor with a major 6th. The difference to minor is only one note. Same with phrygian, it's minor with b2. Lydian is major with #4 and mixo is major with b7. There's only one note difference.

"When I listen to music or melodies I can tell when the notes of a melody are over a 1, 6, or 7 tonal center." By 7 tonal center do you mean "locrian"? That is really never used because you can't resolve to diminished chord. Because a dim chord wants to resolve somewhere else. So a diminished chord can't be the tonal center. You can try this by playing a chord progression and try to resolve it to a diminished chord. You'll notice that the dim chord wants to resolve to a minor or major chord half steps higher.

But don't think in modes, think in keys. There are two keys, major and minor. If the song resolves to a minor chord, it's in minor and if it resolves to a major chord, it's in major.
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Gear

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#26
Quote by jrenkert
Besides just listening to tones I would suggest learning solfege as in Do Re Mi Fa Sol La Ti Do and all its chromatic bits as well. It has really helped my and in sight reading a piece of music. Also knowing the intervals of the major or minor scale and knowing where they would occur would help. For instance I know 5 to 3 in major key is a minor third (like when you call somebody's name in a sing song manner) and that helps me identify where the scale degrees are. In fact, when teaching elementary music, at least where I have observed and taught, it is customary to start learning and identifying solfege on Sol Mi and La (the basis of a crap ton of children's music)...just some thoughts


Listen to this man, he speaks wise words.
#27
aww shucks I thought I was going to be ignored and that this would devolve into another stupid music theory rant.

Thanks bubbamc119!!
#28
Quote by jrenkert
aww shucks I thought I was going to be ignored and that this would devolve into another stupid music theory rant.

Thanks bubbamc119!!


fyi that guy always agrees with dumb people we ignore because they (and you) are dumb and need to shut the fuck up and go back cause you aint got shit and your shit aint got shit and you aint even think you got shit cause you aint shit, you shit
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Hail isn't too edgy for posts, posts are not edgy enough for Hail.


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You win. I'm done here.
#30
Modes is the key to everything. Chuck your bass... if my guitar can survive a drumkit, yours can survive a little hang time. Besides... its a bass, root notes is all you guys play. Look at Victor... he does nuttin.

But look on the bright side... the TS was afraid to use the word... must have been that eye twitching thing that scared him.
Last edited by evolucian at Mar 7, 2013,