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#41
Quote by Jehannum
I just want to hear some good metal riffs, technical or not. Something that makes my head move or my spine tingle. If I go to my CD collection from the mid 80s that's not a problem; if I turn on the radio it is.

Everything sounds much clearer and sharper (and yes, better played) now than it used to - just like TV programmes look much better in high definition - but the content isn't there. There's literally nothing I really like in today's metal scene. That's a bit depressing. I listen to Kerrang to and from work and all I get is American frat boy vocal harmonies and guitar tones polished to within a millimetre of their life.


If you're looking to Kerrang for your modern metal, you obviously aren't looking very hard.
#42
I wish SA had a radio station that played rock, let alone metal. Sigh...... dunno what you bitches be bitchin' about
#43
Quote by ccannon1
I fail to see how modern technology could hold us back... that actually makes no sense at all.


a lot of people develop the bad habit of finding tabs on the internet instead of learning songs by ear? Only thing I can think of.
#44
Quote by evolucian
Sidenote - the youtube vid "solos" is about effective as Zappa's "solos" album was... null and void.

Whoa whoa whoa. Let's calm down here.
#45
Quote by TheHydra
Whoa whoa whoa. Let's calm down here.

lol, come on... you think that album captured Frank well? Like really? I didn't think so at all
#46
Quote by evolucian
lol, come on... you think that album captured Frank well? Like really? I didn't think so at all


yeah it was a piece of shit and i'm a fanboy

but then again, a lot of his music was shit on a record and that's why we love it

but really, jesus that album sucked
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#47
Evolucian, I'm still waiting for you to post a video in this thread that showcases Robert Fripp.
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#48
yeah but robert fripp isn't a guitarist, he's a musician
Quote by Kevätuhri
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#49
AWACS, if you read any of my posts you would have seen that I said you needed to do your own homework to discover it. There was even a hint in case things got too difficult. Ah well, so much for that. Good luck to you
#50
Quote by Archer250
Yes, because everybody's perfect. Right?


Oh and to all the "it's too technical, it's not music" BS; it's because of mindsets like that that ended up with crap like this : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K-Qp9tpiQ0w

i don't care if something is technical, but if it's shit and a linear scale exercise with no sense of melody or purpose...then it's shit...and he's shit. so shit, bro.
#52
Quote by CryogenicHusk
a lot of people develop the bad habit of finding tabs on the internet instead of learning songs by ear? Only thing I can think of.


That's pretty much what I was getting at and as someone pointed out people nowadays are more interested in learning someone else's solo note for note insted of improving there own lead skill. Yes people have always wanted to imitate their favorite artists but it has never been easier then now. People used to guess around a lot more.

Obviously this doesn't apply to most people on the site but we kinda have a problem with the parrot zombie epidemic (IMO at least) I've seen people play very hard riffs songs etc but can't even tell me a few notes on the guitar or how to play along in the right key.

I just thought it was an interesting thought because I know earlier on I was one of those parrots who could only play tabs I learned and didn't know any theory. Nowadays I try to learn songs by ear and rely on technology to a minimum but yes I still do use tabs I just don't think there in stone anymore.

It may seem to make absolutely no sense to sone but I know for me personally the ability to type any song on ultimate guitar held me back, but that was my own negligence I guess.
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#53
Quote by UFC on VHS
That's pretty much what I was getting at and as someone pointed out people nowadays are more interested in learning someone else's solo note for note insted of improving there own lead skill. Yes people have always wanted to imitate their favorite artists but it has never been easier then now. People used to guess around a lot more.

Obviously this doesn't apply to most people on the site but we kinda have a problem with the parrot zombie epidemic (IMO at least) I've seen people play very hard riffs songs etc but can't even tell me a few notes on the guitar or how to play along in the right key.

I just thought it was an interesting thought because I know earlier on I was one of those parrots who could only play tabs I learned and didn't know any theory. Nowadays I try to learn songs by ear and rely on technology to a minimum but yes I still do use tabs I just don't think there in stone anymore.

It may seem to make absolutely no sense to sone but I know for me personally the ability to type any song on ultimate guitar held me back, but that was my own negligence I guess.

...and you honestly believe guitarists in the 70s knew ANYTHING about music theory? Really now.

People use guitar pro and transcribe to slow shit down and learn it now.
Back then they used to play records on repeat and slow them down to pick out harder sections? What's different?
#54
Quote by evolucian
AWACS, if you read any of my posts you would have seen that I said you needed to do your own homework to discover it. There was even a hint in case things got too difficult. Ah well, so much for that. Good luck to you


Well then, in my eyes, and after trying to listen to Epitaph by King Crimson, Tosin Abasi is a better guitarist and musician than Robert Fripp.
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#55
Quote by chronowarp
...and you honestly believe guitarists in the 70s knew ANYTHING about music theory? Really now.

People use guitar pro and transcribe to slow shit down and learn it now.
Back then they used to play records on repeat and slow them down to pick out harder sections? What's different?


they actually had to use their ear. they might not have known that the interval was called a perfect fifth but the majority back then probably had a better ear of knowing how many frets two notes were away from each other better than people now.
#56
Quote by AWACS
Well then, in my eyes, and after trying to listen to Epitaph by King Crimson, Tosin Abasi is a better guitarist and musician than Robert Fripp.

Fair enough... let alone you chose something from 1969 from their debut album. Not bad for a first step, as you went right to the beginning. Of course I can't ask you to track their progress through time as you'd probably land up nuts but you'd definitely land up with a better musical knowledge and an omfg perspective.

Thanks for playing

Sidenote - these two musicians are equal, and if they had to collaborate on something - it would probably be the scariest thing in the world to listen to. Considering what Fripp and Belew pulled off, Abasi and Fripp would be just as brilliant. Maybe bring Tony Levin back on bass and Marotta on skins. Sadly Fripp retired so we'll never ever know
Last edited by evolucian at Mar 8, 2013,
#57
Quote by evolucian
Fair enough... let alone you chose something from 1969 from their debut album. Not bad for a first step, as you went right to the beginning. Of course I can't ask you to track their progress through time as you'd probably land up nuts but you'd definitely land up with a better musical knowledge and an omfg perspective.

Thanks for playing

Sidenote - these two musicians are equal, and if they had to collaborate on something - it would probably be the scariest thing in the world to listen to. Considering what Fripp and Belew pulled off, Abasi and Fripp would be just as brilliant. Maybe bring Tony Levin back on bass and Marotta on skins. Sadly Fripp retired so we'll never ever know


I think you need to learn how to debate. You're pretty salty man.
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#58
I probably do, as I wasn't aware I was having a debate in the first place. A debate would not require the other member to first find something out then come back and continue. A few readers here would be aware of these two guitarists and by seeing a 'vs' placed between the two would probably have understood that there can't be a real comparison. Each one has totally unique aspects, whereas Fripp is one of the grandpappy's of the genre. One would obliterate the other in something, only to have the other one return the favour.

(from post 29) its a matter of personal opinion really. Tosin vs Robert Fripp. I think one of them will make the other cry... it depends on you who you think it will be.


You chose Abasi, I said ok. Whatever you decided was your decision to make in the first place. I can't counter your decision because it wasn't mine. For one to learn about other musicians is a big step in one's growth, a step we all have to take. Sooooo.... thanks for playing
Last edited by evolucian at Mar 8, 2013,
#59
Quote by donegan_zealot
they actually had to use their ear. they might not have known that the interval was called a perfect fifth but the majority back then probably had a better ear of knowing how many frets two notes were away from each other better than people now.

Dude, I think you're really misinformed or just really bad at guitar. Maybe both.
#60
Quote by AWACS
Well then, in my eyes, and after trying to listen to Epitaph by King Crimson, Tosin Abasi is a better guitarist and musician than Robert Fripp.

"after trying to listen to Epitaph..." You need to learn to argue too. You don't need to bash somebody to make your guitar idol look better (that's how Youtube arguments always go). That's just pathetic and IMO Epitaph is a great song, and it might not show that much of his guitar skills because it's not very guitar-driven music. They used lots of synths and wind instruments in the first album and the guitar parts are pretty simple and contribute to the music as a background instrument. I'm pretty sure both Tosin Abasi and Robert Fripp know what they are doing. Robert Fripp is considered as one of the best guitarists in the world.

Though I'm not sure if you were bashing the song when you said you "tried to listen to it". It just gave me that kind of feeling, sorry if I misunderstood. But this is how I read what you wrote: "I tried to listen to it but it was crap. But I tried hard and listened to the whole song."
Quote by AlanHB
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#61
*places a reminder to check back in 45 years to update this thread....*
Fripp - contributed to over 700 official releases.
Abasi - to be determined after 45 years

Over 700? Yeah, frikkin terrible musician, pfffft
#62
Past has more skill, maaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaan:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BNj2BXW852g

Just listen to that technicall Jesus-ing he's doing. Also got some Robert Plant chops in his voice box. Nobody done play with feels no more. Shame...
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#63
People also need to remember that songwriting skills =/= technical skills. People today might not write as memorable songs as in the past but they have better technical skills. And I think this thread was about guitar skills, not musical skills. Though IMO musical skills are much more important. As I said earlier, people in the 70s were good enough. But today guitarists just simply are better. It doesn't mean guitarists in the 70s sucked. You can be good even though there are lots of better guitarists than you.

And IMO you are a good guitarist if you can play what you need to play. If you only write simple guitar+vocals four chord songs, you are good enough guitarist if you can play those chords cleanly and fluently and sing at the same time, that's all you need to do to play your music. You don't need to have the skills of John Petrucci to do that. And IMO that kind of guitarist is good at what he does.

With not so good technique and good musical skills you can still play beautiful music. It might not be that fast but if you are good enough, you can make the most simple things sound good by phrasing and playing the right things at the right time. If you only have good technique and not that great musical skills, your playing will sound like a speed exercise, not that enjoyable to listen to. Of course best guitarists have both good technical and musical skills.

Though musical skills are more subjective. They are about opinions. Some guys may prefer very fast and technical playing that to me sounds like bees. Technical skills are much more objective (how fast, cleanly and accurately you can play). You can tell if somebody has bad or good technique.
Quote by AlanHB
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#64
Quote by MaggaraMarine
People also need to remember that songwriting skills =/= technical skills. People today might not write as memorable songs as in the past but they have better technical skills. And I think this thread was about guitar skills, not musical skills. Though IMO musical skills are much more important. As I said earlier, people in the 70s were good enough. But today guitarists just simply are better. It doesn't mean guitarists in the 70s sucked. You can be good even though there are lots of better guitarists than you.

And IMO you are a good guitarist if you can play what you need to play. If you only write simple guitar+vocals four chord songs, you are good enough guitarist if you can play those chords cleanly and fluently and sing at the same time, that's all you need to do to play your music. You don't need to have the skills of John Petrucci to do that. And IMO that kind of guitarist is good at what he does.

With not so good technique and good musical skills you can still play beautiful music. It might not be that fast but if you are good enough, you can make the most simple things sound good by phrasing and playing the right things at the right time. If you only have good technique and not that great musical skills, your playing will sound like a speed exercise, not that enjoyable to listen to. Of course best guitarists have both good technical and musical skills.

Though musical skills are more subjective. They are about opinions. Some guys may prefer very fast and technical playing that to me sounds like bees. Technical skills are much more objective (how fast, cleanly and accurately you can play). You can tell if somebody has bad or good technique.


People often make the mistake of confusing speed & spectacle with "technical skills".

IMO it's best not to look at it as a competition. People that do often undervalue many aspects of music that make it enjoyable.

You're better off if you appreciate rather than judge IMO.
Last edited by GuitarMunky at Mar 8, 2013,
#65
Mostly,the oldschool guys outdo the new generation(bands like Papa Roach and Black Veil Brides). But some of the new generations guys,even if not so technical,can put up a competition(if you don't judge just by the amont of skill). For example: Crashdiet,SOAD(they are not very technical altogether,but they ARE GOOD musicians),Lordi.

But still - the oldschool generation is the best.
Players like EVH,SLASH,MAB,Mick Mars,Vito Bratta,The Schenker brothers,Matthias Jabs,Sambora,Diamond Darrell,Hendrix,Page,"Fingers" Ojeda and most of the rest are the best there have ever been.
Last edited by Rocknrolla35 at Mar 12, 2013,
#67
i have a papa roach bumper sticker on my car hahhahahahahaha
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#69
Quote by Rocknrolla35
Mostly,the oldschool guys outdo the new generation(bands like Papa Roach and Black Veil Brides). But some of the new generations guys,even if not so technical,can put up a competition(if you don't judge just by the amont of skill). For example: Crashdiet,SOAD(they are not very technical altogether,but they ARE GOOD musicians),Lordi.

But still - the oldschool generation is the best.
Players like EVH,SLASH,MAB,Mick Mars,Vito Bratta,The Schenker brothers,Matthias Jabs,Sambora,Diamond Darrell,Hendrix,Page,"Fingers" Ojeda and most of the rest are the best there have ever been.


You've picked some of the most different guitarists and you chose to listen to some of the shittiest modern guitarists. Your argument is invalid.
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#70
You have to match genre for genre...

On a side note - you included MAB in your list. You deserve to be shot
#71
Quote by Rocknrolla35
Mostly,the oldschool guys outdo the new generation(bands like Papa Roach and Black Veil Brides). But some of the new generations guys,even if not so technical,can put up a competition(if you don't judge just by the amont of skill). For example: Crashdiet,SOAD(they are not very technical altogether,but they ARE GOOD musicians),Lordi.

But still - the oldschool generation is the best.
Players like EVH,SLASH,MAB,Mick Mars,Vito Bratta,The Schenker brothers,Matthias Jabs,Sambora,Diamond Darrell,Hendrix,Page,"Fingers" Ojeda and most of the rest are the best there have ever been.

Oh my god.

Technical skills aren't about opinions, musical skills are (even though they are more important). You are basing your argument only on opinions. And the list of guitarist you have there. Most of them aren't considered the most technical players, other than maybe MAB (that IMO is only technique ) and EVH (he was innovative but technically there are much better guitarists).

And the comment kind of reminded me of "Bring back the 80s! Today's music sucks!" comments. You can't play oldschool music today because it's outdated. I would rather listen to the old albums than new albums that repeat every cliche that was used in the 80s. New bands must have something new to offer and not just repeat what has already been done. And the taste of music is about opinions. In your opinion old bands were better but that's not a fact.

Oh and not Lordi, they are a Kiss copy that use playback lol. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e3NR7Uwu-cs
Quote by AlanHB
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#72
Neither one is better, they are different.

Today we have guitarists like Guthrie Govan, Tosin Abasi, Steve vai, Joe satriani, Chris letchford, Greg Howe etc. They are all very good at what they do, and everyone agree that they are great guitarists.

In the past we had guitarists like Joe Pass, Wes montgomery, John Mclaughlin, Django Reinhardt, Jim Hall, Andres segovia and Julian bream. Also great guitarists, but different.
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#73
Technically, people are better now than in the past. That goes for pretty much every instrument.
#76
IMO, The baseline is higher now, these kids playing with ultra high gain and working pinches of harmonics integrated into their chord progressions whilst alternating palm mutes and down strokes while shifting from 7/4 to 12/7 time; while modulating keys....they can play blues in their sleep. Blues was the baseline back in 1961, however, blues is a one trick pony imo, even with feeling.
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#77
Quote by MaggaraMarine
And I know people like Jimmy Page and Jimi Hendrix have good enough technique and they were also very innovative guitarists. They can play the music they want to play (though you can hear that they play a bit sloppily sometimes). .


I'm still a beginner. I know open chords, some barre chords, learning scales.

So I can't really participate in this discussion.

But I'm just interested in your quote. From what I've read, PAGE and HENDRIX both were considered great guitarists. I have their music on CD. And I've watched tons of video of their playing on YouTube. So what do you mean they were sloppy at times? How do you define sloppy? Where were they ever sloppy?

(When I've watched them playing, again on YouTube videos, I'm always in awe. Amazed. My mouth agape.)

Last edited by rutle_me_this at Mar 14, 2013,
#78
Quote by rutle_me_this
I'm still a beginner. I know open chords, some barre chords, learning scales.

So I can't really participate in this discussion.

But I'm just interested in your quote. From what I've read, PAGE and HENDRIX both were considered great guitarists. I have their music on CD. And I've watched tons of video of their playing on YouTube. So what do you mean they were sloppy at times? How do you define sloppy? Where were they ever sloppy?

(When I've watched them playing, again on YouTube videos, I'm always in awe. Amazed. My mouth agape.)



Hendrix's sloppiness is hard because of his huge fuzz; but Page's sloppiness is apparent. Listen to Heartbreaker for example, it sounds inconsistent.
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#79
Quote by Archer250
Hendrix's sloppiness is hard because of his huge fuzz; but Page's sloppiness is apparent. Listen to Heartbreaker for example, it sounds inconsistent.


I found this on YouTube of Hendrix playing acoustic. So there's no "huge fuzz" here:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8tQO4Z_4uR0


Question: How is Page inconsistent on Heartbreaker? Again, I'm still learning, and I'm always interested in learning more. So I'm serious when I say enlighten me.

Thanks
Last edited by rutle_me_this at Mar 14, 2013,
#80
Don't worry rutle... haters gonna hate. If those two musicians make you happy, then by all means, learn from them. I personally don't find any sloppiness in their playing and they are both heroes to me. Along with Jeff Beck. Whether Page was goofed or not, it was always exciting to see his genius at work.

If you want clinical precision, then waste your time with MAB. Musically the guy will teach you nothing. But these two, you will learn more from them than most other players. I still learn from them too.