#2
Answer: It depends.

People might be able to give you a better answer if you provide more context.

Is this a from-scratch build, or are you modifying an existing guitar?

If scratch, is there any factory guitar that your design is closest to in ways relevant to your question? Are you going to use a plate? 3 bolt or 4 bolt? Sculpted heel or flat?

If existing, then make, model, age?

Type of wood?

This might help you get a good answer here...
Quote by shiggityswah

Welcome to UG. Everyone here will piss you off at some point, it's just what we do.
#3
Have you not already asked this before?
EH


"Show me war; show me pestilence; show me the blood-red hands of retribution..."
#5
Quote by jetwash69
Answer: It depends.

People might be able to give you a better answer if you provide more context.

Is this a from-scratch build, or are you modifying an existing guitar?

If scratch, is there any factory guitar that your design is closest to in ways relevant to your question? Are you going to use a plate? 3 bolt or 4 bolt? Sculpted heel or flat?

If existing, then make, model, age?

Type of wood?

This might help you get a good answer here...

I'm using a neck from a peavey rock master and I'm building the body from scratch and am basing it off the ESP alexi
#6
Quote by DESTROYER5000
I'm using a neck from a peavey rock master and I'm building the body from scratch and am basing it off the ESP alexi


Well, at least now I know that I'd be completely speculating since I don't have much experience with Vs. It might help others answer your question if you list the wood and what type of neck you're using.
Quote by shiggityswah

Welcome to UG. Everyone here will piss you off at some point, it's just what we do.
#7
Quote by jetwash69
Well, at least now I know that I'd be completely speculating since I don't have much experience with Vs. It might help others answer your question if you list the wood and what type of neck you're using.

I'm using cherry plywood and a maple neck as listed
#10
Quote by DESTROYER5000
I'm using cherry plywood and a maple neck as listed

OK, I guess a lot of people would know the details on a Peavey Rockmaster.

As for plywood, it can be stronger and more rigid in some planes than solid wood, but it will be more fragile in others. Also, be aware that cherry might just be the external veneer and the other layers might be other woods, and might not even be complete sheets--they can be fiberboard or even particle board (basically sawdust suspended in glue)--unless you're using veneer core plywood (which will be a lot more expensive).

As a rule, I'd make critical plywood demensions thicker than solid boards. Also I wouldn't try to get away with sculpting plywood. I'd use a neck plate for sure to help spread the load. You also have a much greater risk of plywood splitting around the screws.

Maybe you're completely familiar with all the ins and outs of plywood. If not, then this might be a good resource for you: http://www.popularwoodworking.com/techniques/basics/choose_the_right_plywood

This link also talks a bit about how "3/4 inch plywood" isn't always 3/4 of an inch thick.
Quote by shiggityswah

Welcome to UG. Everyone here will piss you off at some point, it's just what we do.
Last edited by jetwash69 at Mar 8, 2013,
#12
Quote by LeviMan_2001
So Your total thickness will be 1.5"? That's fine. Original fender duo sonics were that thick. You should cut your neck pocket to a depth that allows you to get a correct height with your bridge.


I was assuming that TS wants to shave it down a bit from the back of the guitar so that the heel doesn't interfere with reaching higer frets, since he's not going to be able to pursue his desire for a neck-thru design.

So maybe mitigate it a bit like Fender does on MIA Deluxes or Ibanez does on their Prestiges, etc.
Quote by shiggityswah

Welcome to UG. Everyone here will piss you off at some point, it's just what we do.
#13
Quote by DESTROYER5000
I'm using a neck from a peavey rock master and I'm building the body from scratch and am basing it off the ESP alexi

Couple more quick questions:

- Doesn't a Peavey Rock Master have 21 frets while the Alexi has 24?

- When you say "basing it off the ESP alexi [sic]" are you including the Floyd Rose trem?
Quote by shiggityswah

Welcome to UG. Everyone here will piss you off at some point, it's just what we do.
#14
1 1/2 inches will be the final thick it is veneer core that I got for free and the heel on the neck is 3/4 thick, also will 1 1/2 be thick enough for a Floyd?
Last edited by DESTROYER5000 at Mar 8, 2013,
#15
Quote by jetwash69
Couple more quick questions:

- Doesn't a Peavey Rock Master have 21 frets while the Alexi has 24?

- When you say "basing it off the ESP alexi [sic]" are you including the Floyd Rose trem?

Yes it has 21 frets which is no big deal and yes I'm including the floyd
#16
Quote by DESTROYER5000
Yes it has 21 frets which is no big deal and yes I'm including the floyd


It'll be interesting to see how the nut works out. Lots of potential issues there. Looking forward to seeing the results and how you overcome the challenges.

Quote by shiggityswah

Welcome to UG. Everyone here will piss you off at some point, it's just what we do.
#17
Quote by jetwash69
It'll be interesting to see how the nut works out. Lots of potential issues there. Looking forward to seeing the results and how you overcome the challenges.


I'm going to put the lock nut behind the regular nut and is 1 1/2 thick enough for a Floyd?
#18
Quote by DESTROYER5000
I'm going to put the lock nut behind the regular nut

Have you seen this done successfully before? If so, please post links.

This defeats the main purpose of a locking nut (to prevent string binding in a conventional nut). How are you going to fit the locking nut, the string bar, and the low E tuning machine in the same space? And keep the string angles right?

[EDIT 1: When retrofitting a Floyd on non-Floyd necks, the correct procedure is to remove the stock nut, and mill a channel the right width and depth to correctly place the locking nut. This doesn't always work out well when the neck wasn't designed for the Floyd in the first place. Also, if the tolerances aren't perfect (like if slot isn't level and even, or if it's too deep, you can have major issues.)]

While we're on the subject of the neck and the nut, does the current nut width match the Floyd's locking nut width?

Also relatated to the neck, does the neck radius align with the trem's radius? I'd be surprised if this was published anywhere--have you measured it yourself (not as easy as it might seem)? You know you can't adjust action of individual saddles on most (all?) Floyds, right?


Quote by DESTROYER5000
is 1 1/2 thick enough for a Floyd?

99% sure that yes, but can't verify 100% right now. Go measure or look up MIA Strat body thickness. If it's 1 1/2 inches, and not 1 3/4, then yes. I know lower-end Squiers are too thin, but I can't check if they're 1 1/4" or 1 1/2".

EDIT 2: I'm not trying to discourage you. It's better to identify potential pitfalls and solve the problems to prevent them before they happen. Measure twice; cut once. Yeah, I used to be a carpenter.
Quote by shiggityswah

Welcome to UG. Everyone here will piss you off at some point, it's just what we do.
Last edited by jetwash69 at Mar 8, 2013,
#19
Quote by jetwash69
Have you seen this done successfully before? If so, please post links.

This defeats the main purpose of a locking nut (to prevent string binding in a conventional nut). How are you going to fit the locking nut, the string bar, and the low E tuning machine in the same space? And keep the string angles right?

[EDIT 1: When retrofitting a Floyd on non-Floyd necks, the correct procedure is to remove the stock nut, and mill a channel the right width and depth to correctly place the locking nut. This doesn't always work out well when the neck wasn't designed for the Floyd in the first place. Also, if the tolerances aren't perfect (like if slot isn't level and even, or if it's too deep, you can have major issues.)]

While we're on the subject of the neck and the nut, does the current nut width match the Floyd's locking nut width?

Also relatated to the neck, does the neck radius align with the trem's radius? I'd be surprised if this was published anywhere--have you measured it yourself (not as easy as it might seem)? You know you can't adjust action of individual saddles on most (all?) Floyds, right?


99% sure that yes, but can't verify 100% right now. Go measure or look up MIA Strat body thickness. If it's 1 1/2 inches, and not 1 3/4, then yes. I know lower-end Squiers are too thin, but I can't check if they're 1 1/4" or 1 1/2".

EDIT 2: I'm not trying to discourage you. It's better to identify potential pitfalls and solve the problems to prevent them before they happen. Measure twice; cut once. Yeah, I used to be a carpenter.

I saw a video on the YouTube channel 0cscott where he had a strat done with a lock nut behind the regular nut with a Floyd but the lock nut also acted a retainer bar, I remember which video it was so you will have to find it but I know it's one of Colin's earlier vids
#20
Quote by jetwash69
Have you seen this done successfully before? If so, please post links.

This defeats the main purpose of a locking nut (to prevent string binding in a conventional nut). How are you going to fit the locking nut, the string bar, and the low E tuning machine in the same space? And keep the string angles right?
.

It's actually just a Kahler style locking nut. If the nut is well lubricated then the kahler style is equally as effective as it prevents pulling on the string in the tuning machine. Many guitars do use Kahler style locking nuts, and they work fine, I personally have a guitar with one and I only have to tune it once every couple weeks.
Quote by R45VT
Bastards.
#21
Quote by Viban
It's actually just a Kahler style locking nut. If the nut is well lubricated then the kahler style is equally as effective as it prevents pulling on the string in the tuning machine. Many guitars do use Kahler style locking nuts, and they work fine, I personally have a guitar with one and I only have to tune it once every couple weeks.


I had to do my post twice because it got lost when I had to re-log into the WI-FI connection, but my original text was more comprehensive and covered that.

If you're only worried about slippage in the windings on the tuning posts, then locking tuners would be the answer. I have a guitar with locking tuners and I can attest that plus graphite (neither pencil lead nor true graphite lube) are still not enough to completely prevent binding problems--I still have to snap the trem after enough whammy abuse or certain bends.

Also, I think you actually need a Kahler or a true "Kahler style" nut to pull off what you're talking about, but TS said yes to "Floyd Rose" not, Kahler, and it would be interesting to see a Floyd nut used that way--never seen it done before.

Since the locking nut would be so close to the conventional nut, there would be much less chance of it binding in the plastic nut than with locking tuners because there'd only be like 1/4 of string travel instead of 1.5 - 6 inches you'd have between the nut and the pegs. But it's still not ideal, and now that I've seen some of TS's other threads, I'm not even less convinced he'd get the string angles right.
Quote by shiggityswah

Welcome to UG. Everyone here will piss you off at some point, it's just what we do.
#22
Quote by DESTROYER5000
I saw a video on the YouTube channel 0cscott where he had a strat done with a lock nut behind the regular nut with a Floyd but the lock nut also acted a retainer bar, I remember which video it was so you will have to find it but I know it's one of Colin's earlier vids

See above post on this. Are you using Kahler or Floyd?

Also, what about the radius?
Quote by shiggityswah

Welcome to UG. Everyone here will piss you off at some point, it's just what we do.
#23
12' radius and I'm using a Floyd also I cannot post a link as YouTube on my is blocked til midnight as a result us having unlimited data after midnight until 5 am
#24
Quote by DESTROYER5000
12' radius and I'm using a Floyd also I cannot post a link as YouTube on my is blocked til midnight as a result us having unlimited data after midnight until 5 am

No rush.

12, huh? The neck or the bridge? If the neck, then how did you figure that out?

Anyway, sure, the Floyd has a 12" radius (inches, not feet, right?) but I checked Peavey's site and several retailers (didn't bother with Walmart), but none of them listed the neck radius. I'd assume it would be more like 8.5 - 9.5". If you're using a new OFR, it should come with a shim so it'll accommodate a 10" radius.
Quote by shiggityswah

Welcome to UG. Everyone here will piss you off at some point, it's just what we do.
#25
Quote by jetwash69
No rush.

12, huh? The neck or the bridge? If the neck, then how did you figure that out?

Anyway, sure, the Floyd has a 12" radius (inches, not feet, right?) but I checked Peavey's site and several retailers (didn't bother with Walmart), but none of them listed the neck radius. I'd assume it would be more like 8.5 - 9.5". If you're using a new OFR, it should come with a shim so it'll accommodate a 10" radius.

Yes, twelve inches sorry about the typo but I used a radius measuring tool my dad had laying around and it was twelve I also forgot to mention I scalloped it because I like the feel allot better. And yes the neck is a 12" radius.
Last edited by DESTROYER5000 at Mar 8, 2013,
#27
Quote by DESTROYER5000
I did but did not get a proper answer


So instead of simply saying why my answer wasn't "proper", you decided to start a new thread?
EH


"Show me war; show me pestilence; show me the blood-red hands of retribution..."
#28
Quote by eddiehimself
So instead of simply saying why my answer wasn't "proper", you decided to start a new thread?


Eddie, IMHO, you're perfectly justified reacting like this. I know you're a good guy, so I'd just like to point out that TS is still learning the ropes on this whole "internet etiquette" thing, and has been learning the hard way a lot here on UG.

I hope he gets your point instead of getting butthurt, learns from it, and we can all move on.

He could just be asking his luthier uncle all these questions, but I get the sense he's showing initiative by asking us these questions so he can learn on his own and be more self-sufficient than just becoming a carbon copy of his family contacts. Or he could just be a punk looking for ammunition to use in order to quibble with his elders. But I'm going to give him the benefit of the doubt, and assume it's more along the lines of the first reason.

It's a whole different set of rules of engagement in the Pit, though--that's where we do the trial by fire
Quote by shiggityswah

Welcome to UG. Everyone here will piss you off at some point, it's just what we do.
Last edited by jetwash69 at Mar 9, 2013,
#29
Quote by DESTROYER5000
The video is called Colin's guitaring update its the that appears to say sav on the headstock


LOL. Hope that guy isn't a role model for you .

Anyway, yeah, that's not a Floyd locking nut on that guitar. It looks like one designed to sit where it is on that guitar. If you're changing headstock angles, then even if you get one like that, it might not work out well.
Quote by shiggityswah

Welcome to UG. Everyone here will piss you off at some point, it's just what we do.
#30
Quote by jetwash69
LOL. Hope that guy isn't a role model for you .

Anyway, yeah, that's not a Floyd locking nut on that guitar. It looks like one designed to sit where it is on that guitar. If you're changing headstock angles, then even if you get one like that, it might not work out well.

He's not my rolemodel but I do kinda like his vids and I'm not changing headstock angles( that idea was scrapped) and I do consult my uncle a lot on stuff but he still doesn't know everything also yes I'm still quite new to interwebz etiquette so thank you for not flipping out over the new thread