Fundis
Registered User
Join date: Jul 2009
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#1
What would you call a minor scale with a major third?
Can be heard in Led Zeppelin's Kashmir, and it sounds quite oriental.
Is it a typical oriental scale?

thanks
Hail
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#2
i'd call it a minor scale with a major third methinks
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TDKshorty
The Swami
Join date: Sep 2006
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#4
Hindu scale
5th mode of melodic minor

Technically it wouldn't be minor because the 3rd dictates the quality of the scale. But just like you could say melodic minor is a major scale with a flatted 3rd, there's no harm in saying a minor scale with a raised 3rd
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Glowing in radiant madness
Last edited by TDKshorty at Mar 12, 2013,
Hail
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#5
Quote by TDKshorty
Hindu scale
5th mode of melodic minor

Technically it wouldn't be minor because the 3rd dictates the quality of the scale. But just like you could say melodic minor is a major scale with a flatted 3rd, there's no harm in saying a minor scale with a raised 3rd


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chronowarp
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#6
Protip: Don't try to sum up the entirety of notes in a piece of music into a scale. That's not how it works.

If the song is in a minor key, then it's based off the natural minor scale. That doesn't mean that every accidental needs to be added to the minor scale, and you need a new name for those collections of notes. They're accidentals. Analyse them as they relate to the harmony.
Fundis
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Join date: Jul 2009
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#7
Quote by TDKshorty
Hindu scale
5th mode of melodic minor

Technically it wouldn't be minor because the 3rd dictates the quality of the scale. But just like you could say melodic minor is a major scale with a flatted 3rd, there's no harm in saying a minor scale with a raised 3rd


Hmm, it can't be the fifth mode of a melodic minor, because that mode has a major third.

EDIT: NO IM JUST KIDDING. never mind.
Last edited by Fundis at Mar 12, 2013,
TDKshorty
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#8
Quote by Fundis
Hmm, it can't be the fifth mode of a melodic minor, because that mode has a major third.

EDIT: NO IM JUST KIDDING. never mind.

I was about to say haha.

You could also call it Mixolydian with a b6.

http://docs.solfege.org/3.21/C/scales/mel.html

The harmony is trippy

I(7) ii-7 iii-7(b5) IVmaj7 v-7 VImaj7(#5) VII(7)
And we will weave in and out of sanity unnoticed
Swirling in blissfully restless visions of all our bleary progress
Glowing in radiant madness
Last edited by TDKshorty at Mar 12, 2013,
Fundis
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Join date: Jul 2009
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#9
Quote by chronowarp
Protip: Don't try to sum up the entirety of notes in a piece of music into a scale. That's not how it works.

If the song is in a minor key, then it's based off the natural minor scale. That doesn't mean that every accidental needs to be added to the minor scale, and you need a new name for those collections of notes. They're accidentals. Analyse them as they relate to the harmony.


Of course, but this is for a school project. School likes analysing this kind of way haha
AlanHB
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#10
Quote by Fundis
Of course, but this is for a school project. School likes analysing this kind of way haha


No it doesn't. You just picked a piece of music that's too hard for you to analyse and got someone else to do your homework.
And no, Guitar Hero will not help. Even on expert. Really.
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TDKshorty
The Swami
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#11
Quote by AlanHB
No it doesn't. You just picked a piece of music that's too hard for you to analyse and got someone else to do your homework.



I think I'm only laughing, because i do the same thing sometimes


EDIT: I have no idea why anyone would want to analyze something like this anyways.
And we will weave in and out of sanity unnoticed
Swirling in blissfully restless visions of all our bleary progress
Glowing in radiant madness
Last edited by TDKshorty at Mar 12, 2013,
chronowarp
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#12
Quote by Fundis
Of course, but this is for a school project. School likes analysing this kind of way haha

No, dude, school does not.
No form of modern music analysis is based on summing all the present notes in a piece into a synthetic scale - western music is structured around harmony. Relate the accidentals to the underlying harmony.
macashmack
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Join date: May 2011
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#13
I would call it an ugly ****ing scale.
No Jplay it's actually rather nice sounding. But it don't matter cause if it resolves to a note than it's just in __ major and it likes to flirt with accidentals like that slut who flirts with me at the bars (i was an accident )
jrcsgtpeppers
Tab Contributor
Join date: Feb 2009
171 IQ
#14
alright, lets find out!

a minor (aeolean)
a-b-c-d-e-f-g

lets bump up that minor to a major third
a-b-c#-d-e-f-g

that screams D harmonic minor to me. d-e-f-g-a-db
it kinda lets you play weird chromatic blues style licks like

------------------------
---------------5-
-----5-6-7-8-7---7-
-5-7---------------7-5-
-----------------------7-6-5-
-----------------------------8b-5-


if you were jammin to led zeppelin. jimmy uses a lot of chromatics like that. black dog is another example. he bends that c up a half step in the intro lick.
Xiaoxi
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#17
Kashmir doesn't have a "minor scale with a major 3rd"

...modes and scales are still useless.


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British_Steal
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#18
Well it cant be a minor scale if it has a major third but I understand your point. I dont remember hearing that in that song though but I think this is what you mean maybe?

Melodic Dominant scale

A B C# D E F G

1 2 3 4 5 b6 b7
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#19
Hey, now I remember why I stopped coming here lol

No offense, TS, of course. Just that it's another stereotypical thread about scales. People should pay more attention to Xioxxiaxaixai's signature.
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#20
Mixolydian b6
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#22
Who cares what the scale is called? Look at the chords behind it. It actually depends on the context what it's called and it's just an accidental you are using. You are most likely just playing the chord tones. There's no point in naming a scale when you don't know the context. Different notes have a different function in a different context.

Kind of reminds me of the Fb Mohammed scale lol.
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Sean0913
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#23
A Minor scale With a major third is a Minor scale that uses a Major 3rd as a passing tone.

Minor scales have 3 differences from Major scales (Natural minor that is):

b3, b6, and b7.

By adding a Major third, you have not created a new scale, you are functionally using the major 3rd as a passing tone for color.

I disagree with everyone else and their evaluation of the scale, because they have changed the tonal center. Even Mixolydian b6, by invoking that, you prioritize the Major 3rd and thus the b3 becomes the passing tone. If you say the notes are the same as in a Mixolydian b6, I'd agree, but the context has changed.

Well then, we are no longer minor, are we?

This is like me saying that C D E F G A B C is F Lydian. It's not.

Best,

Sean