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#1
Do you think modelled amp plugins on computer will replace tube and digital amps?
#3
what? come on man
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#4
I don't know if its gonna be plugins or hardware but eventually yes. Tube technology is really old and it will die sooner or later.
#5
Just like vinyl records died.

No, wait. .
#6
Yeh, they're gonna stop building prop planes soon too, and internal combustion engines.

Some tech will last for its uses not its age.
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#8
I hope not...There most likely will be a large amount of people using plugins and downloadable foot pedal effects via phone/computers. However, it could be a best of both worlds situation too where these plugins could be installed on a tube amp.
#9
i wouldnt say replace, buy yes there are already the likes of axe fx and kempler profiling amp that are just pretty damn close, and new generation will most likely embrace the digital age in the guitar world, keeping the Analog market to limiyed audience.
This will take years though.
#10
And the point of this thread is? I am a big advocate of modelling, I use amp sims almost exclusively at home in my apartment, but I always enjoy the chance to fire up my tube amps at practise
#11
Nope but it has definitely carved it's own place into the market and it'll probably get bigger as time goes on. Don't be surprised if like a decade from now one of the big amp brands puts out an amp modeler of their own.
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#12
Just look at the AxeFX. It sounds great and can sound like a good tube amp, if you put a lot of work into the presets.
Also free plugins like lepous amp sims come very close to the originals.

The problem is, that those effects units - like the AxeFX - aren't very straight forward and might be a bit overwhelming. Real tube amps on the other hand are easier to understand and dialing a good tone doesn't take a lot of time.

With increasing processing power for less money I can see amp simulators replace tube amps quality wise. But the music industry is pretty backwards so I can also see a lot of musicians not trust them.


But if you want to replicate a tube amp, you could just skip all the efford of modelling it and just get the real thing. At least if you have the money.
Last edited by Tomura at Mar 27, 2013,
#13
Quote by LightxGrenade
Nope but it has definitely carved it's own place into the market and it'll probably get bigger as time goes on. Don't be surprised if like a decade from now one of the big amp brands puts out an amp modeler of their own.


I'm pretty surprised they haven't done it by now...The question is, what names do you think will be involved?

I've been thinking Amplitube and, DARE I SAY, Line 6....or maybe Marshall....
#14
I'd imagine they'd replace a lot of live rigs, they seem to have started already what with numerous big names using AxeFX for everything from effects to the full rig. But for studio? I doubt it, certainly not in the big leagues at any rate. Maybe individual studios would get AxeFX or a Kemper and smaller artists might use them. I love amp sims, but they'll never smell as good as a cooked tube amp.
#15
There will always be a few ol' romantics who will share the love for tube amps, in spite of the level of obscurity that tube amps will get to.
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#16
Quote by Dimarzio45
I'm pretty surprised they haven't done it by now...The question is, what names do you think will be involved?

I've been thinking Amplitube and, DARE I SAY, Line 6....or maybe Marshall....

Never heard of the Line 6 Vetta?
#17
Quote by Dimarzio45
I'm pretty surprised they haven't done it by now...The question is, what names do you think will be involved?

I've been thinking Amplitube and, DARE I SAY, Line 6....or maybe Marshall....

you guys forgot about revalver, huh.
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#18
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#19
Periphery used only AXE-FX for their tone on their latest album and it busts balls. They used an EVH 5150 III as a power amp, but still, most of that tone is the AXE.

When I get enough $$ to get myself an Axe Fx II and a Matrix poweramp, I'm switching so fast. Hate the unreliable nature of the tube amp, only sounds the same probably 50% of the time when you turn it on. Gotta tweak it for weather and other stuff... I'm done with it. Bring on the digital revolution.
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#20
Quote by AxSilentxLine
Never heard of the Line 6 Vetta?


That's a great response. I own the Vetta ii....bought it like 6 months ago. It's the most amazing amp I've ever used. It's by far, the tube-iest solid state I've heard yet.
Last edited by Dimarzio45 at Mar 27, 2013,
#22
they will replace tube amps in small studios but live use should always be a big tube amp and also large studios that can afford lots of tube amps should have them as well. they are great for budget recording and getting a good tone.
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#23
Quote by JagerSlushy
you guys forgot about revalver, huh.


Doesn't seem that much different than Guitar Rig...
#24
I want a Shazam/Kemper /Axe Fx where your amp listens to your favorite song and models the guitar tone with no tweaking.
#25
Quote by droyboy
Do you think modelled amp plugins on computer will replace tube and digital amps?
One could claim that a Digital amp is already a modeling plugin on a computer. Not sure how a plugin on a computer could replace an amp, because a computer isn't an amp. You still need an amp and a speaker.
#26
Quote by Dimarzio45
I hope not...There most likely will be a large amount of people using plugins and downloadable foot pedal effects via phone/computers. However, it could be a best of both worlds situation too where these plugins could be installed on a tube amp.

The fender cyber amps are basically a mix like that: tube preamp+ss power amp+analog modelling+digital effects. I use a cyber-twin SE for shows and band practice and it is a damn good live amp and gets some great tones. It may not be exactly the same tone as the amps it models but it sounds like what I'd expect that amp would sound like. And that's the point; if it sounds good, use it.

I used to use a SFTR, and while it sounded good, the cyber-twin's TR model sounds like what I expect a good twin is meant to sound like. The only thing about the cyber-twin that I feel takes away from it is that every control on the amp is on every amp model whether the original had it or not, which I feel can be negative when it takes away from the simplicity of certain amps or beneficial when it can add more versatility.

Really, I generally only use the TR and '58 deluxe models for clean and dirt respectively, but it's nice to have say, a voxy type sound there if I want it. Don't get me wrong, when recording or playing at home I'm all about the class A 5-watter and germanium fuzz , but I find modeling amps to be invaluable live tools. While it may not be the real deal, it's good to be able to carry one amp (plus my bass/octave amp, long story ) and have really close fine-tuned (individual EQ, amount of reverb, etc.) approximations of my favorite clean and dirty amps instead of settling for an meh clean and a good dirt or vice versa. Nothing sounds as real as a tube amp on a recording though, there's just some variable there that plugins and modelling don't capture.

There's also the fact that plugins just aren't as inspiring as an amp reacting to your playing but I'll leave that for someone else to add.
#27
You'd have to plug it into the PA and rely totally on the foldback monitors to hear yourself - f*** that noise. And good luck playing Parisienne Walkways.
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#28
Quote by tukk04
The fender cyber amps are basically a mix like that: tube preamp+ss power amp+analog modelling+digital effects. I use a cyber-twin SE for shows and band practice and it is a damn good live amp and gets some great tones. It may not be exactly the same tone as the amps it models but it sounds like what I'd expect that amp would sound like. And that's the point; if it sounds good, use it.

I used to use a SFTR, and while it sounded good, the cyber-twin's TR model sounds like what I expect a good twin is meant to sound like. The only thing about the cyber-twin that I feel takes away from it is that every control on the amp is on every amp model whether the original had it or not, which I feel can be negative when it takes away from the simplicity of certain amps or beneficial when it can add more versatility.

Really, I generally only use the TR and '58 deluxe models for clean and dirt respectively, but it's nice to have say, a voxy type sound there if I want it. Don't get me wrong, when recording or playing at home I'm all about the class A 5-watter and germanium fuzz , but I find modeling amps to be invaluable live tools. While it may not be the real deal, it's good to be able to carry one amp (plus my bass/octave amp, long story ) and have really close fine-tuned (individual EQ, amount of reverb, etc.) approximations of my favorite clean and dirty amps instead of settling for an meh clean and a good dirt or vice versa. Nothing sounds as real as a tube amp on a recording though, there's just some variable there that plugins and modelling don't capture.

There's also the fact that plugins just aren't as inspiring as an amp reacting to your playing but I'll leave that for someone else to add.


Yeah, I remember those amps. They're similar to my Vetta II. It's a real pleasure owning such an amp and had proven its value ten times over. My issue with mine is that it tries to emulate pedals (tons of them too), and does a good job. But, it doesn't have some the extra perks that an analogue pedal would have. For example, the Electro Harmonix Deluxe Memory Man emulation involves the delay parts, but no modulation like the real pedal does. So it's like you get half the pedal in the amp.

This experience has proven to me that I'm still gonna have to keep investing in pedals and not look to an amp/multi FX pedal for an ALL-IN-ONE solution. I'm just way to nitty-gritty about my effects and the hands on approach is just the best way to go. If the amp breaks down, I'm up Sh*t Creek and I'll have to look to pedals to find the tone that I had WHILST buying a new amp. Also, it doesn't help my amp is discontinued.

The plus-side to my amp head (and yours too) is that I can get almost any clean channel sound out there. That's all I really need out of it.....annnd some grit/dist. With some pedals in the mix, I can get a ridiculous array of tones.
Last edited by Dimarzio45 at Mar 27, 2013,
#29
Quote by BobDetroit
I want a Shazam/Kemper /Axe Fx where your amp listens to your favorite song and models the guitar tone with no tweaking.

Yeah but that's not the pure amp tone it's capturing, that's the amp plus EQ, compressors, the mic's character and all that. It's also only capturing that one amp setting and then applying the character of it's own tonestack and it can't capture how the amp actually responds to pedals, different pickups, dynamics, and specifically volume/gain changes; it can only make that tone louder or quieter, which isn't the same as power amp tubes being pushed. That being said, if it makes for a good, useable tone (which should be the end goal that's great, but profiling is far from perfect.
#30
I hate to break it to you, but computer programs are......digital. your only 15 yrs too late
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#31
Do none of you guys actually use large volumes from your stack as part of your instrument? Is it all just a one way affair for you?
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#32
Quote by Cathbard
Do none of you guys actually use large volumes from your stack as part of your instrument? Is it all just a one way affair for you?


Not to sound r*tarded, but can you rephrase that? Do you mean, do we depend on large/loud volume for good tone?
#33
No. I mean using the sound pressure to make the strings vibrate.
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#34
Quote by Dimarzio45
I'm pretty surprised they haven't done it by now...The question is, what names do you think will be involved?

I've been thinking Amplitube and, DARE I SAY, Line 6....or maybe Marshall....

Line 6 does already, I own a Pod HD Pro. No it's not recreating an Engl Fireball or Powerball 100% but if you tweak things enough you can get a very very nice sound. I'm waiting until one of the big boys makes a modeler of their amps like if fender or marshall (i consider the least likely of the group of popular amp brands) did that and not just a solid state amp with some options, I mean like a full amp modeler with a catalog of their amps, then I guarantee you it would change peoples opinions on the subject.
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Last edited by LightxGrenade at Mar 27, 2013,
#35
Quote by BobDetroit
I want a Shazam/Kemper /Axe Fx where your amp listens to your favorite song and models the guitar tone with no tweaking.

Oh man how awesome would that be? But I think that would be more magic than technology lol. For example Alexi Laiho of Children of Bodom said that on one particular album, in order to get the sound he recorded the guitar parts 3 times with the amps set to different setting then combined the sound to get that one guitar sound for the album. I don't know of any technology that could hear that, analyze it and figure it out, then reproduce it. Like I said it would be more magic than technology (IMO, Im sure someone will come along in the thread to tell me that not only am I wrong but that the technology already exists lol)
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#36
Quote by LightxGrenade
Line 6 does already, I own a Pod HD Pro. No it's not recreating an Engl Fireball or Powerball 100% but if you tweak things enough you can get a very very nice sound. I'm waiting until one of the big boys makes a modeler of their amps like if fender or marshall (i consider the least likely of the group of popular amp brands) did that and not just a solid state amp with some options, I mean like a full amp modeler with a catalog of their amps, then I guarantee you it would change peoples opinions on the subject.


Yeah I know. I have the Line 6 Vetta II which emulates 75 different amps and 35 speaker sims (which are basically eq tweaks)...plus a shit ton more. I've owned it for about 6 months and still haven't peaked on experimental sounds and settings...craaazy stuff.

It would be a hell of a cool product for guitar gearheads if a company did put out an amp with a full catalogue of their amps. I'm not sure how that would affect sales on their other amps though. Plus pricing....how would you price such a device that basically makes all previous models pointless to purchase? It would be a tough gamble. Unless there's something I'm missing...
#37
Quote by Cathbard
No. I mean using the sound pressure to make the strings vibrate.


So basically feedback/sustain?
#38
Quote by LightxGrenade
Oh man how awesome would that be? But I think that would be more magic than technology lol. For example Alexi Laiho of Children of Bodom said that on one particular album, in order to get the sound he recorded the guitar parts 3 times with the amps set to different setting then combined the sound to get that one guitar sound for the album. I don't know of any technology that could hear that, analyze it and figure it out, then reproduce it. Like I said it would be more magic than technology (IMO, Im sure someone will come along in the thread to tell me that not only am I wrong but that the technology already exists lol)

That's what the kemper profiler claims to do. It'd probably copy the different guitar's variances as a slight echo or something though. You gotta remember that that specific guitar sound is EQed to fit that mix, it's cool at home or when recording but show me how well an EQed and studio compressed sound fits in a mix live. And the EQ on the kemper itself doesn't matter because once you adjust that it is not the same tone then, it is a close approximation same as any other modelling amp.
#39
Quote by Dimarzio45
So basically feedback/sustain?
Correct.
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#40
Quote by Dimarzio45
So basically feedback/sustain?

If that is what he means then it's a no for plugins because feedback is dependent on the reaction happening between an amp's speakers and the guitar.

Edit: Sorry, I thought his original question was about feedback in modelling. But yeah in my case I use intentional feedback on a couple songs.
Last edited by tukk04 at Mar 27, 2013,
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