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#1
The aim of this thread is to know everyone's opinion about nations which want to be free from their country, such as Quebec or Catalonia. Who do you think must take the decision, the country or the nation?
Here you have a video "explaining" Catalonia's political situation:

[forbidden link]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kuisvfz3Aus
#2
Basque, Scotland, North and South Italy,
sometimes I see us in a cymbal splash or in the sound of a car crash
#5
I think if the majority of the people in a given area want to break away they should be able to. Long live the Confederacy.
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#6
Belgium is good example. Roughly the same size of land area and population as far as I know. With difference languages etc.
sometimes I see us in a cymbal splash or in the sound of a car crash
#7
Scotland would struggle to stand by itself. Thank you England, for being Scotland's financial crutch.
#8
what's the name of that island belongning to france that want to be free?
the island where Bastia plays.
sometimes I see us in a cymbal splash or in the sound of a car crash
#9
Quebec wants to leave but keep getting money from the Canadian government. Pffft.
ಥ_ಥ
#10
Scotland's decision is irrelevant unless they want to stay, just like the Falklands.


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#11
It would be ridiculously stupid for Quebec to separate from Canada. As a resident there, I know that if that ever happens, the economy would drop very quickly.

As of now, English is now considered a foreign language by Pauline Marois, the premier of Qc. She also decided to start a law that essentially effs over many Italian restaurants for not spelling café the French way but the Italian way.

Nonetheless, if Qc were to separate, many of the English residents would move to a different province, bringing their money elsewhere forcing Qc to have to raise taxes to continue to get enough money to keep the infrastructures in good condition.

And this is coming from a province who is complaining of the lack of immigration into it but has a law that no immigrant can come in to it unless he or she already knows French.
#12
Meh it's not greatly straightforward. If the people of that area feel a strong sense of alternate nationality and want to be separate then in a way you think "well who are we to tell them they can't?" but also frankly the man on the street will have little idea of the actual implications of seceding (for example on an economic and governmental level).

They can feel a strong sense of identity in a certain area whilst being part of a great union though. In the UK for example, I know that Cornwall and Wales both like to feel themselves their own nations (well I guess technically Wales is), but for them to go solo would be ridiculous.
Similarly in Yorkshire (where I live) I know most everyone is all "YORKSHIRE YORKSHIRE YEAH GO YORKSHIRE! WE'RE THE BEST!" and probably if asked they'd say "yeah it'd be great to be our own country!" but that would be frankly a terrible idea.
#13
In my opinion Catalonia is a different case. Spain doesn't let the Catalan people vote, which is morally incorrect. But furthermore, Spain threatens Catalonia with its army. And then Spain's goverment wants to give an example of democracy...
#14
Is TS Catalan?

I am too.

On topic: being from Catalonia I've never been much of a patriot or a nationalist, I've never been proud or anything of Catalonia's culture and history (because I think nationalisms are stupid), so I am not pro-independence in that sense. Economically and such, well that's another story. I don't think things would be good for Catalonia if we seceded from Spain, at least not in the first years anyway. If I ever leave Spain (which I hope I can do) it won't be as a new nation of Catalonia, but rather as just an individual. Catalonia is fucked up as well anyway, and as I said I don't care about nationalism.

What pisses me is the attitude of the government of Spain. They won't even allow a referendum, and they basically deny our freedom to decide shit like this. Even if people vote no to independence and then everyone moves on.
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Last edited by Mr Winters at Mar 28, 2013,
#17
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#18
Quote by JackWhiteIsButts
Recognized as an independent nation =/= free

I guess it depends on the situation of each nation.
#22
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#23
I think all countries should have a right to be free. Just look at Iceland, if we hadnt gotten free back in 1918 wed still be stuck under danish rule and i'd prabobly have killed myself by now
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#24
I don't mind if there were more countries. One thing I WOULD mind, is the UN, NATO and EU poking their big noses into it so it all goes their way.
#27
Quote by Wicer
It would be ridiculously stupid for Quebec to separate from Canada. As a resident there, I know that if that ever happens, the economy would drop very quickly.

As of now, English is now considered a foreign language by Pauline Marois, the premier of Qc. She also decided to start a law that essentially effs over many Italian restaurants for not spelling café the French way but the Italian way.

Nonetheless, if Qc were to separate, many of the English residents would move to a different province, bringing their money elsewhere forcing Qc to have to raise taxes to continue to get enough money to keep the infrastructures in good condition.

And this is coming from a province who is complaining of the lack of immigration into it but has a law that no immigrant can come in to it unless he or she already knows French.



It wasn't just Pauline that started that law. Bill 101 has been in effect since the early 70's. For those of you who don't know what this is it's basically a bill saying that all English signs have to be smaller then those in French, French parents were not allowed to send their children to English schools, Immigrants could not attend English schools, and there can be no solely English signs.

Maybe some outsiders don't know this but we have an actual LANGUAGE POLICE. They tell us where we are allowed to use our language. PASTA , that's right ****ING PASTA, is considered offensive to the language police because it is not French enough. Restaurants using the word PASTA are actually facing court action if they don't change the word to something more francophone acceptable.
#28
As much as I respect (but do not agree with) Quebec's desire to be independent, they will never separate. The separation process itself would be so costly it would completely ruin Quebec financially. Think about all the federal government that's in Quebec. Think about all the people will jobs who will have to choose between a bankrupt Quebec and a still standing Canada.

If Quebec wants to separate, then all federal affairs must be moved to the rest of Canada. All those jobs and buildings in Gatineau that play a huge role in the federal government and DND will have to be moved to Ottawa. And that's just one example. And who's gonna pay for that? Well, Quebec of course. It's not like you would pay for your neighbor to move when it's your neighbor who so desperately wants to move. Surely the Canadian federal government will have to spend something though, as bizarre as it may seem, it's inevitable. But the separation process would be so costly to Quebec that it would just completely ruin them to bits. And I get that they're a huge hydroelectricity player, and they've got a huge lumber and mining industry. But that's not going to hold them up.

And let's face it, they can't even figure who's good and who's corrupt in their government and they can't even figure out basic financial organization towards their infrastructure. I mean for ****'s sake, half of their roads probably haven't been repaved since 1965.
#29
Quote by redandwhite12
It wasn't just Pauline that started that law. Bill 101 has been in effect since the early 70's.



She made a new one (Bill 14), which she is trying to put through. And that is what I was referencing but yes, Bill 101 has been around for a long time. So much so that they decided to change all the stop signs to "Arrête" (Translation of stop in French) a few years ago. Tourists and some English residents were ignoring the signs though the shape and color should make it blatantly obvious.. They later realized that stop was a universal word and changed all the signs back to English or having both the English and French on it.
#30
Quote by MadClownDisease
.
Similarly in Yorkshire (where I live) I know most everyone is all "YORKSHIRE YORKSHIRE YEAH GO YORKSHIRE! WE'RE THE BEST!" and probably if asked they'd say "yeah it'd be great to be our own country!" but that would be frankly a terrible idea.

DUNT BE DAFT, LAD

Seriously though it actually wouldn't. Maybe being a fully independant country would be silly, but I think some kind of devolved parliament similar to Scotland, Wales and NI would work out very much in our favour.

Yorkshire is a very broad economy- We have cities like Leeds (second biggest financial sector in the UK dontcherknow), the Dales and historic cities like York for tourism, excellent infrastructure with the M1 and M62 spanning the length and breadth of the county, and if we were given governmental independence from the South we might stand a chance of rebuilding some of our manufacturing industry.
#31
Quote by Wicer
It would be ridiculously stupid for Quebec to separate from Canada. As a resident there, I know that if that ever happens, the economy would drop very quickly.

As of now, English is now considered a foreign language by Pauline Marois, the premier of Qc. She also decided to start a law that essentially effs over many Italian restaurants for not spelling café the French way but the Italian way.

Nonetheless, if Qc were to separate, many of the English residents would move to a different province, bringing their money elsewhere forcing Qc to have to raise taxes to continue to get enough money to keep the infrastructures in good condition.

And this is coming from a province who is complaining of the lack of immigration into it but has a law that no immigrant can come in to it unless he or she already knows French.


Pretty sure Quebec has always had language laws like that for a long time now. She's just been enforcing them much more and putting more of her attention into making the laws stricter.

You're right though, many people would just up and leave. And indeed, like you say, their taxes would have to go up. And that's a very very scary thing for them, because they have the highest income tax rates. Their highest tax bracket is taxed at 56%. That right there should be considered ****ing communist ****ing horseradish. Anything over 49% is just theft in my opinion. But their top bracket is taxed at 56%, which means that if taxes go up, they could very easily see 60%. And that's just at least, and in the very beginning. Imagine making what you think is really good money, say 120k, but nope, OVER HALF of it gets snatched right out of your pocket. Gone. The ****ing red fairy came in and sliced your wallet right in half.
#32
Quote by Wicer
She made a new one (Bill 14), which she is trying to put through. And that is what I was referencing but yes, Bill 101 has been around for a long time. So much so that they decided to change all the stop signs to "Arrête" (Translation of stop in French) a few years ago. Tourists and some English residents were ignoring the signs though the shape and color should make it blatantly obvious.. They later realized that stop was a universal word and changed all the signs back to English or having both the English and French on it.



Bill 14 is basically just a more intense version of 101. Let us pray its not voted in not just as Anglophones but as Quebecois. Already lots of tourists have been scared away from Quebec because news of the language police and how ridiculous they can be sometimes has caught wind.

Currently all Allophones , people speaking any other language other than English or French, are being counted as Anglophones. Bill 14 wants to denounce this meaning English would be roughly a 7% minority in Quebec. This means the government could completely shut down lots of English resources. English schools would be shut down and most likely English second language programs. No one would have to accommodate the minorities language.

I don't think it's to likely to be voted in but it really depends on which way the C.A.Q votes. Liberals are pretty well against it.
#33
my opinion on quebec is odd. considering they want nothing to do with the rest of canada and our unique, blended culture **** them. i WOULD say "get the **** out" but that'd leave maritime provinces cut the **** off from the rest of the country
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#34
Quote by aaroncaper
my opinion on quebec is odd. considering they want nothing to do with the rest of canada and our unique, blended culture **** them. i WOULD say "get the **** out" but that'd leave maritime provinces cut the **** off from the rest of the country



I'm a Quebecois I don't want to separate. I like the rest of Canada. I want to remain the same as we are now.

If anything I want to leave Quebec and live elsewhere in Canada.

Not all Quebecois want to separate and many love Canada it the select few that do that often gain the most media attention.

Unfortunately its often the people with the biggest mouths that get the most attention not the ones with the biggest brains.
Last edited by redandwhite12 at Mar 28, 2013,
#35
Quebec wants to separate from Canada but still keep all the benefits of being a province of the country. It is a very immature stance and I don't think they realize that Alberta is keeping them up right now just like most of eastern Canada, and without that support, I can't see them doing well. Not to mention it would split this wonderful country in half.
#37
Quote by Jmoarguitar
Quebec wants to separate from Canada but still keep all the benefits of being a province of the country. It is a very immature stance and I don't think they realize that Alberta is keeping them up right now just like most of eastern Canada, and without that support, I can't see them doing well. Not to mention it would split this wonderful country in half.



They just want separation but have no idea of what it would do to the province. We already have extreme taxation, a corrupt police system, shit roads, a large population that thinks that schools can run with no funding from the attendees, large language and minority conflicts. I cant see how separating would do anything to fix these problems.
#38
You people are ******ed. Quebec doesn't want to separate, a small but overtly vocal minority wants to separate. The federal government would never let it happen, either, considering Quebec would suddenly have a stranglehold on one of the most important trade routes in North America (the St. Lawrence canal). Not going to happen.
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#39
Quote by Acϵ♠
You people are ******ed. Quebec doesn't want to separate, a small but overtly vocal minority wants to separate. The federal government would never let it happen, either, considering Quebec would suddenly have a stranglehold on one of the most important trade routes in North America (the St. Lawrence canal). Not going to happen.



It is a small minority and we are talking hypothetical situations. I am Quebecois and I really cant ever see Quebec separating.
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