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#81
I only support it for criminals who have killed.

Take that, pit!
*-)
Quote by Bob_Sacamano
i kinda wish we all had a penis and vagina instead of buttholes

i mean no offense to buttholes and poop or anything

Rest in Peace, Troy Davis and Trayvon Martin and Jordan Davis and Eric Garner and Mike Brown
#82
Quote by element4433
I only support it for criminals who have killed.

Take that, pit!

I take that and accept it...


I think. Wait, what was the question?
#83
Quote by bradulator
Self defense ain't murder.
Killing someone=/=murder in some cases

fetus=/=baby

Abortion=/=killing babies

FORCING WOMEN TO GROW CHILDREN INSIDE THEM THEY DON'T WANT =/= HUMANE

after a certain point I agree abortion is morally wrong. Earlier than that though fuck you if think it's wrong.
FUCK you if you think it should be illegal.
#85
Quote by OddOneOut
So it's ok for women to end up dead because they don't want to have a baby?
A woman could become pregnant by accident (birth control failure) and have no desire to have a child nor does she have the means to support a child. She would receive less money from her employer due to maternity pay and may be unable to work as normal if her job is physically demanding (eg. shop worker).
The woman should be forced to carry the child to term, endure 9 months of pregnancy, swollen feet, potential sciatica, joint problems, morning sickness and potentially preventing her from bearing children in the future due to complications in labour, in order to give birth to this unwanted baby. The baby is born unwanted and put into the foster or adoption system which is already over crowded with older children who are in need of homes. All because she cannot get a safe abortion (and an illegal one would carry a great risk of killing her)?

Yeah. That sounds like a great idea.

Not all pregnancies are wanted, and despite attempts to prevent pregnancy accidents do happen. Birth control and abortions enable women to pursue careers and have children when they are ready and able to support them, not because a condom broke and they have no other choice.

Ah, so it's okay not to take responsibility for your actions as long as it's inconvenient for you. OK.
“Just to sum up: I would do various things very quickly.” - Donald Trump
#86
Quote by Weaponized
Killing someone=/=murder in some cases

fetus=/=baby

Abortion=/=killing babies

FORCING WOMEN TO GROW CHILDREN INSIDE THEM THEY DON'T WANT =/= HUMANE

after a certain point I agree abortion is morally wrong. Earlier than that though fuck you if think it's wrong.
FUCK you if you think it should be illegal.

I think we broke your logical unit...
#87
Quote by bradulator
Ah, so it's okay not to take responsibility for your actions as long as it's inconvenient for you. OK.

Having an abortion is taking responsibility. It's not not bringing up a child in poverty or leaving it to the mercy of the foster system. It's not raising a child without love. It's not letting a child grow up with abandonment issues. You can **** right off if you think that a broken condom or contraception not working correctly means you have to be a parent. You can also **** right off if you think that people should only have sex if they're willing to accept pregnancy as a consequence.
Quote by Renka
OddOneOut is an Essex S&M mistress and not a pirate or a computer program.

#89
Quote by OddOneOut
So it's ok for women to end up dead because they don't want to have a baby?
A woman could become pregnant by accident (birth control failure) and have no desire to have a child nor does she have the means to support a child. She would receive less money from her employer due to maternity pay and may be unable to work as normal if her job is physically demanding (eg. shop worker).
The woman should be forced to carry the child to term, endure 9 months of pregnancy, swollen feet, potential sciatica, joint problems, morning sickness and potentially preventing her from bearing children in the future due to complications in labour, in order to give birth to this unwanted baby. The baby is born unwanted and put into the foster or adoption system which is already over crowded with older children who are in need of homes. All because she cannot get a safe abortion (and an illegal one would carry a great risk of killing her)?

Yeah. That sounds like a great idea.

Not all pregnancies are wanted, and despite attempts to prevent pregnancy accidents do happen. Birth control and abortions enable women to pursue careers and have children when they are ready and able to support them, not because a condom broke and they have no other choice.

You see, in the instance were the mothers life is at risk, I am fine with abortion. I see it as a sort of self defense. Also, i am for it if she got it when raped.
I am against it in your scenario. By having sex, even protected sex, you are agreeing to take part in an action that creates human life. Sex is pleasurable, but that is NOT it's reason for its existence. It exists to create offspring. The fact that it is pleasurable on top of that is just gravy on the potatoes. I will never condone murder due to selfishness, I don't see how anyone can. I would rather the child live and be put up for adoption then killed because the mother/father don't want to take responsibility for their actions.
#90
Quote by crazysam23_Atax
Why are you taking this so personally?...

Calm the fuck down, man.

Cause I really care about the rights of people and how shit like abortion is demonized. You guys are being ******ed with this "LOL WE BROKE WEAPONIZED OMG" sorry if I type what I think sometimes.
Quote by bradulator
Ah, so it's okay not to take responsibility for your actions as long as it's inconvenient for you. OK.
yeah I hate when people get cancer treatment and stuff when they smoke or get out in the sun a lot. Take responsibility for your actions and DIE
#91
Quote by OddOneOut
Having an abortion is taking responsibility. It's not not bringing up a child in poverty or leaving it to the mercy of the foster system. It's not raising a child without love. It's not letting a child grow up with abandonment issues. You can **** right off if you think that a broken condom or contraception not working correctly means you have to be a parent. You can also **** right off if you think that people should only have sex if they're willing to accept pregnancy as a consequence.

No, having an abortion is a cop out. It's killing someone because it will make your life harder/you don't want to raise a child. That's serious shirking of responsibility.
#92
Quote by OddOneOut
Having an abortion is taking responsibility. It's not not bringing up a child in poverty or leaving it to the mercy of the foster system. It's not raising a child without love. It's not letting a child grow up with abandonment issues. You can **** right off if you think that a broken condom or contraception not working correctly means you have to be a parent. You can also **** right off if you think that people should only have sex if they're willing to accept pregnancy as a consequence.

Why do so many people take it as a personal affront when people make sex responsibility arguments?...
#93
Quote by bradulator


Self defense ain't murder.


Certainly not, but invading countries because they may or may not have weapons of mass destruction doesn't constitute self defense.

It's why invading someone's home and shooting them when they point a gun at you isn't classified as 'self defense'.
#95
Quote by macashmack
No, having an abortion is a cop out. It's killing someone because it will make your life harder/you don't want to raise a child. That's serious shirking of responsibility.
I think we just hold different beliefs as to what a fetus is. I guess there's nothing more to talk about.
#96
Quote by crazysam23_Atax
Why do so many people take it as a personal affront when people make sex responsibility arguments?...

because they don't want to have to do that
#97
Quote by Morphogenesis26
Mandatory post-birth abortions for everyone with a pimple.

Can we burn them like they did back in Salem, while we're at it?

Quote by macashmack
because they don't want to have to do that

Granted, but the idea that sexual responsibility is something humanity should not embrace as a whole is ridiculous. I get that some people just want to have sex, but they should keep in mind that sex has a chance to make a woman pregnant.

Acting like sex is purely for pleasure is just...not how sex works...
Last edited by crazysam23_Atax at Apr 4, 2013,
#98
Quote by Weaponized
I think we just hold different beliefs as to what a fetus is. I guess there's nothing more to talk about.

this really is where the idea's come down to. It always ends here.
I personally believe that people don't like to classify unborn humans as humans so that they can justify the right to abortions.
#99
Quote by OddOneOut
Having an abortion is taking responsibility. It's not not bringing up a child in poverty or leaving it to the mercy of the foster system. It's not raising a child without love. It's not letting a child grow up with abandonment issues. You can **** right off if you think that a broken condom or contraception not working correctly means you have to be a parent. You can also **** right off if you think that people should only have sex if they're willing to accept pregnancy as a consequence.

"Whoops the birth control didn't work BUT I DON'T WANT A BABY WAH good thing I can choose to not have to have it because I am irresponsible"
“Just to sum up: I would do various things very quickly.” - Donald Trump
#100
We already have that. It is called the death penalty.
Quote by Gabel
You are EXTREMELY WRONG! I have played it. I own an 18W and it would be an awful stereo amp, it's way too bright, breaks up too easily and so on. Secondly, why would a guitar store sell an hifi amp.
#101
Quote by crazysam23_Atax
Why do so many people take it as a personal affront when people make sex responsibility arguments?...
Because shaming women for enjoying sex is still a problem in society. And people have different ideas as to what is "responsible" like I think using safe sex stuff is responsible enough, and other people think save it for your husband he owns you.
#102
Quote by crazysam23_Atax
Can we burn them like they did back in Salem, while we're at it?


Everyone will burn.

Why don't we make abortions legal but hard to get and focus a lot of time and effort on sex education and fixing our ******ed culture?
#103
Quote by Weaponized
yeah I hate when people get cancer treatment and stuff when they smoke or get out in the sun a lot. Take responsibility for your actions and DIE

omgomgomgomgomg you can **** OFF if you think cancer is in anyway comparable!!!!!!!!1!!!!!
“Just to sum up: I would do various things very quickly.” - Donald Trump
#104
Quote by macashmack
this really is where the idea's come down to. It always ends here.
I personally believe that people don't like to classify unborn humans as humans so that they can justify the right to abortions.
at what point do you think the fetus is a baby? when the sperm enters the egg? When the brain develops? When the heart starts beating? Cause I do think it's wrong to terminate a pregnancy past a certain point as I've said, and so does society as 3rd trimester abortions are illegal.
#105
Quote by bradulator
omgomgomgomgomg you can **** OFF if you think cancer is in anyway comparable!!!!!!!!1!!!!!

If you use absolutely ******ed arguments then I can too. I almost lost my respect for sam (turns out he's just being sam) but you man, holy shit.
#106
Quote by Weaponized
at what point do you think the fetus is a baby? when the sperm enters the egg? When the brain develops? When the heart starts beating? Cause I do think it's wrong to terminate a pregnancy past a certain point as I've said, and so does society as 3rd trimester abortions are illegal.

The moment the sperm and egg meet, and the cell becomes 46 chromosomes, I consider it a human life that should be protected.
#107
Quote by Weaponized
at what point do you think the fetus is a baby? when the sperm enters the egg? When the brain develops? When the heart starts beating? Cause I do think it's wrong to terminate a pregnancy past a certain point as I've said, and so does society as 3rd trimester abortions are illegal.


So you decide to pick some arbitrary calendar date as the appropriate time to call a fetus a living creature? That's what is currently in place, and I can't accept that. For me it either has to be okay at all times, or not at all. And since it is clearly wrong to abort a fetus at a certain point, it has to be wrong at all times.

That's the way I see it.
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LET'S GO BUCKS
#108
Quote by AeroRocker
So you decide to pick some arbitrary calendar date as the appropriate time to call a fetus a living creature? That's what is currently in place, and I can't accept that. For me it either has to be okay at all times, or not at all. And since it is clearly wrong to abort a fetus at a certain point, it has to be wrong at all times.

That's the way I see it.

I agree with this as well
#109
Quote by crazysam23_Atax
Why do so many people take it as a personal affront when people make sex responsibility arguments?...

Because as a woman these kind of arguments are attacking my right to choose what I do with my body. To tell me I shouldn't be having sex because I don't want children at this stage in my life is wrong.
I do want children one day, but when I am ready. When I can raise it in a safe and financially supported environment. I don't want to give away a child for adoption, because it would be my child and it's my responsibility to raise them. Until then I am not fit to be a mother. I can do everything possible to prevent pregnancy but at the end of the day I really like sex. It's extremely pleasurable. It's a misogynistic view that I am irresponsible if I just want sex for pleasure because at the end of the day that's the main reason men have sex. Because of the pleasure.
Quote by Renka
OddOneOut is an Essex S&M mistress and not a pirate or a computer program.

#110
Quote by Weaponized
Because shaming women for enjoying sex is still a problem in society. And people have different ideas as to what is "responsible" like I think using safe sex stuff is responsible enough, and other people think save it for your husband he owns you.

I don't think anyone in the West (even Christian Fundamentalists, because Biblically that's not how it works) think that bolded part is true.

Also, the idea that women are shamed for enjoying sex is stupid. No one has an issue with that. They simply think that both men and women should take responsibility for the care of any baby that happens if they both consent to sex and it just so happens that she gets pregnant. If you disagree with that sentiment, fine. I happen to agree with it. I don't think it has a damn thing to do with shaming men or women at all.

Although, I acknowledge that there are "Christians" or other groups who think shaming people for their actions is okay, even though Jesus himself basically said that people should worry about their own shit and not judge others for their shit. In fact, people who judge other's for their actions and call themselves Christians really are not acting very much like "little Christs". (The literal definition of Christian, in ancient Greek, is "little Christ".)

Quote by OddOneOut
It's a misogynistic view that I am irresponsible if I just want sex for pleasure because at the end of the day that's the main reason men have sex. Because of the pleasure.

Men and women both have sex for pleasure. However, both men and women should be responsible for caring for any potential pregnancies. I agree that it is misogynistic to say women can't have sex for pleasure (and that men can) or that a women should be the sole caretaker of any potential child (simply because the contraceptives failed). However, that doesn't change the fact that sexual pleasure comes secondary to the primary function of sex, namely for the purpose of procreation. No matter what your beliefs on how the world works, fact is, sex is primary for procreation.
Last edited by crazysam23_Atax at Apr 4, 2013,
#111
Quote by AeroRocker
So you decide to pick some arbitrary calendar date as the appropriate time to call a fetus a living creature? That's what is currently in place, and I can't accept that. For me it either has to be okay at all times, or not at all. And since it is clearly wrong to abort a fetus at a certain point, it has to be wrong at all times.

That's the way I see it.

That's not what's in place at all. At least in the UK the limit is set at the point when most fetuses develop sentience as this is the point at which you can really say that it's human in any meaningful sense. Before that point it's killing a non-sentient clump of cells.
#112
Quote by AeroRocker
So you decide to pick some arbitrary calendar date as the appropriate time to call a fetus a living creature? That's what is currently in place, and I can't accept that. For me it either has to be okay at all times, or not at all. And since it is clearly wrong to abort a fetus at a certain point, it has to be wrong at all times.

That's the way I see it.

Black and white thinking at its finest.

This logic applied in other situations

"it's either okay to have sexual intercourse with a person at all times, or not at all"

"it's either okay to sell hard liquor to a person at all times, or not at all"

"it's either okay to arrest people at all times, or not at all"
#113
Quote by OddOneOut
Because as a woman these kind of arguments are attacking my right to choose what I do with my body. To tell me I shouldn't be having sex because I don't want children at this stage in my life is wrong.
I do want children one day, but when I am ready. When I can raise it in a safe and financially supported environment. I don't want to give away a child for adoption, because it would be my child and it's my responsibility to raise them. Until then I am not fit to be a mother. I can do everything possible to prevent pregnancy but at the end of the day I really like sex. It's extremely pleasurable. It's a misogynistic view that I am irresponsible if I just want sex for pleasure because at the end of the day that's the main reason men have sex. Because of the pleasure.

No ones telling you you can't have sex for pleasure. Go ahead.
But if that creates a human, that's when you are held responsible for your decision. It has nothing to do with misogynistic viewpoints. We are thinking of the human that you are KILLING because you do not want to own up to your responsibility. You are thinking about yourself and that you want to just party and have fun and not have to take responsibility for your actions.
#114
If two people have safe sex then they don't want to have a child at that point in time. If you make them have a child then you are forcing the woman to give birth and forcing the parents to raise a kid they don't want. How is that fair to the kid or the parents?
#115
Quote by AeroRocker
So you decide to pick some arbitrary calendar date as the appropriate time to call a fetus a living creature? That's what is currently in place, and I can't accept that. For me it either has to be okay at all times, or not at all. And since it is clearly wrong to abort a fetus at a certain point, it has to be wrong at all times.

That's the way I see it.

It's not arbitrary dude, stop thinking that. People aren't like "lets kill babies yeah it's awesome but only for the first 6 months just cuz". It's like, the mind isn't even developed enough for anything, it's still growing. It's not conscious or unconscious. People don't allow abortions in the third trimester cause the baby is a baby at that point, it is actually developed mentally. Before that, it's like, just another part of your body.

If you think abortion is ok when rape happens, then shouldn't it be ok all the time? If you think it's ok some of the time, shouldn't it be ok all of the time? Why are children with rapists as fathers more deserving of getting aborted if you think it's life? If you think it's the same as being a baby, then you are ok with killing babies and that's just sick.
#116
Typical leftist, wanting to snuff out a life because they are too immature and ill-prepared to deal with reality to own up to the responsibilities created by their irresponsibility.
#117
Quote by Weaponized
Because shaming women for enjoying sex is still a problem in society. And people have different ideas as to what is "responsible" like I think using safe sex stuff is responsible enough, and other people think save it for your husband he owns you.

Hows about recognizing that when you have sex, even with contraceptives, there is a possibility that you will get pregnant, and then not copping out because you don't want your actions to ruin your life?

at what point do you think the fetus is a baby? when the sperm enters the egg? When the brain develops? When the heart starts beating? Cause I do think it's wrong to terminate a pregnancy past a certain point as I've said, and so does society as 3rd trimester abortions are illegal.

You can draw points as to when something is technically "alive" but really all you need is common sense to tell you that this thing inside of me will grow and become a living thing. Trying to justify when it's okay to get rid of it by citing some technicality probably makes people feel better about getting abortions, but it doesn't take away the fact that it's a technicality.

If you use absolutely ******ed arguments then I can too. I almost lost my respect for sam (turns out he's just being sam) but you man, holy shit.






Also, with your cancer BS. Cancer is a disease. You can get cancer by not even having done shit like smoke cigarettes. Pregnancy is not a disease (unless you're ******ed). You can only get pregnant by having sex.
“Just to sum up: I would do various things very quickly.” - Donald Trump
#118
Quote by macashmack
No ones telling you you can't have sex for pleasure. Go ahead.
But if that creates a human, that's when you are held responsible for your decision. It has nothing to do with misogynistic viewpoints. We are thinking of the human that you are KILLING because you do not want to own up to your responsibility. You are thinking about yourself and that you want to just party and have fun and not have to take responsibility for your actions.

Yup. You're still just shaming me for having sex.

So, going off on a tangent here. If you had sex with a woman and she got pregnant as a result but did not want the baby, would you carry the developing embryo to term if the technology was available? Would you take on the responsibility in order to preserve the embryo?

Quote by Morphogenesis26
If two people have safe sex then they don't want to have a child at that point in time. If you make them have a child then you are forcing the woman to give birth and forcing the parents to raise a kid they don't want. How is that fair to the kid or the parents?

Please carry on repeating this several times loudly. Maybe one day someone will actually get this very valid point.
Quote by Renka
OddOneOut is an Essex S&M mistress and not a pirate or a computer program.

Last edited by OddOneOut at Apr 4, 2013,
#119
Quote by Weaponized
If you use absolutely ******ed arguments then I can too. I almost lost my respect for sam (turns out he's just being sam) but you man, holy shit.

Wow, what an excellent way to argue.

I don't give 2 shits if you respect me or not; outside of this forum, I don't even interact with you. The only thing I'm ever interested in, on this forum, is logical arguments and reasonable discourse.
Last edited by crazysam23_Atax at Apr 4, 2013,
#120
Quote by OddOneOut
Because as a woman these kind of arguments are attacking my right to choose what I do with my body. To tell me I shouldn't be having sex because I don't want children at this stage in my life is wrong.
I do want children one day, but when I am ready. When I can raise it in a safe and financially supported environment. I don't want to give away a child for adoption, because it would be my child and it's my responsibility to raise them. Until then I am not fit to be a mother. I can do everything possible to prevent pregnancy but at the end of the day I really like sex. It's extremely pleasurable. It's a misogynistic view that I am irresponsible if I just want sex for pleasure because at the end of the day that's the main reason men have sex. Because of the pleasure.

Nobody is saying you shouldn't be having sex but if you're going to be having sex realize that your wanting to wait to have children might not go as planned BECAUSE THAT IS WHAT HAPPENS WHEN YOU HAVE SEX. "Oh whoops I don't want to have a kid yet cuz it's inconvenient at this point in my life" is purty selfish.
“Just to sum up: I would do various things very quickly.” - Donald Trump