#1
Hey all,

So, I'm in a dillema of sorts. I recently snagged up an Avatar Contemporary 4x12 cab w/a quad of Celestion greenbacks in it, just to try them out (I was planning on swapping in a different set of speakers anyway). Well, turns out, at least at lower - moderate volumes, I ended up loving the way they sound with my ENGL Fireball. The creamy mids add some more "natural" and vintage vibe to it's brutally high gain tone, and the amp is already so tight, that the looser low end of the GB's doesn't seem to come into play so much!

What has me worried though is trying to use the GB's in a band situation. Many people have told me that the greenbacks with "flub out" at high volumes with metal tones, from speaker breakup. I'd like to test this out to hear for myself, but I'm pretty sure it wouldn't take long for my neighbors to call the cops

The speaker set I was gonna swap in (and have already tested), is a combo of WGS ET-65's and Veteran 30's. The ET-65's have a somewhat similar vibe to the GB, but with less rich mids. The lows however, are much tighter, and there's more clarity in the highs. I have a feeling they'll hold together better at high volumes, but I'm kinda debating what route I wanna go now (since the ENGL seems to love singing through mid-rich speakers).

Is a 60 watt tube head gonna cause a sweet metal tone through a cab of 4 GB's to crap out when pushing the amp a bit?
- Gibson Flying V 120 #1 (White)
- Gibson Flying V 120 #2 (Cherry)
- Gibson SG Standard ('61 style)
- Jackson DK2M

- ENGL Fireball 60
- Avatar 4x12

- Many pedals, plus other stuff
Last edited by FlightofIcarus at Apr 10, 2013,
#2
Probably. I haven't played a Fireball but I assume it's got quite a lot of bass, which is going to give the greenbacks major trouble when it's turned up.
#3
try it, you may like it. crank those greenbacks before you replace them because you may not need to.

i generally don't prefer greenbacks because they have a particular tone they do well and they don't have much range outside that tone. this can be great for some people (my friend loves that tone), and i even keep a green back around just because i can load it in my 1x12 whenever to run with my 18 watter marshall.

the T-65's will be sharper, crisper and exhibit much less breakup

the Veteran 30 should be a V30 copy right? that should have a more modern tone with a pronounced mid spike. really stands out in a mix and is a pretty versatile speaker.

if you mixed the T-65 and V30 it'd prob sound pretty good.
punk isn't dead, it's always smelled that way.

"A perfection of means, and confusion of aims, seems to be our main problem."
-ae
#4
I should clarify that I already have the ET-65/Veteran 30 set. I was using them in a Marshall 1960A cab. I bought my Avatar to swap them into, but got it with the greenbacks rather than empty. I've tested all 3 speakers out, but only at low volumes.

I'm mainly curious as to what exactly speaker breakup will do to my tone. Is it a subtle "crunch" that happens, like slightly pushing a power tube section of an amp? Or does it begin doing other things?
- Gibson Flying V 120 #1 (White)
- Gibson Flying V 120 #2 (Cherry)
- Gibson SG Standard ('61 style)
- Jackson DK2M

- ENGL Fireball 60
- Avatar 4x12

- Many pedals, plus other stuff
#5
The midrange bark and snap from the GB's will help the Fireball immensly at "band" volumes. I know that amp has a lot of lowend, but it can be reduced with the bass control of course. Also, your cab is 100 watts and your amp is 60 watts. It's not just bass that causes speakers to flub, but also exceeded headroom, which you won't encounter with that setup.
Something to consider, the Framus Cobra is a 100 watt amp and Framus equips the matching 4x12 with 25 watt Greenbacks.
The Fireball and Cobra are different, but in the same "family" or type of amp voicing if you will. Lot's of gain, lot's of lows, lot's of highs & moderate mids. Greenbacks work well with that combination for metal.Just be sure to watch your lows, and maybe reduce your gain as you add volume because you will be getting some speaker distortion added as well, the harder you push them.
MARSHALL JVM 210H
PEAVEY JSX
KRANK 412
MESA 412
FENDER STRATS
DIMARZIO
CELESTION
Last edited by Van Noord at Apr 11, 2013,
#6
Well, I did some speaker swapping around in both cabs, and compared both the greenbacks and the Vet 30/ET-65 combo in both the Marshall 1960A, and my new Avatar Contemporary.

Looks like my final verdict, is that I'm gonna be breaking the metal "rules" a bit with tone here, and straying away from the V30-style speakers that are pretty much ubiquitous in the genre it seems . The greenbacks absolutely sing with the ENGL. In either cab, they do a killer job of smoothing out the top end, and filling in the mid frequencies that the Fireball is a bit lacking in with some other speakers (I wouldn't even dare try the thing through G12T-75s!).

This is yet, another lesson that I think we can all benefit from. Choosing the right speaker for the way an amp is voiced makes all the difference. I loved the Veteran 30/ET-65 combo with my old Mesa Boogie I sold. But the ENGL seems to work much better w/Greenback style speakers. If I blow these things up, I'll probably try some G12H-30 style speakers, but for now, I'm content
- Gibson Flying V 120 #1 (White)
- Gibson Flying V 120 #2 (Cherry)
- Gibson SG Standard ('61 style)
- Jackson DK2M

- ENGL Fireball 60
- Avatar 4x12

- Many pedals, plus other stuff
Last edited by FlightofIcarus at Apr 11, 2013,
#7
If you already have all the gear, then test them all out at gig volume. Otherwise it's all hearsay and opinion.
...
#8
Quote by FlightofIcarus
If I blow these things up, I'll probably try some G12H-30 style speakers, but for now, I'm content


try the new creamback instead. it's like a G12M-25 greenback but it has a 65 watt rating, i've heard some real good things about them.

you can also go for scumbacks if you wanna spend some money on some premium greenback copies.
punk isn't dead, it's always smelled that way.

"A perfection of means, and confusion of aims, seems to be our main problem."
-ae