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HighspeedNazi
Banned
Join date: Mar 2013
20 IQ
#81
I found this 1964 Gibson Reverse Firebird III. You may not like the Reverse Firebirds but they've been my favorite since I was a teenager. In fact, I've got a mint 1999 Les Paul Classic '60 Reissue I would trade for a Reverse Firebird in like condition if I could find one.

This one however, is an original. Looks like the truss rod cover is missing and I think one could find one in better condition for this kind of money.


outerbanks.craigslist dot org/msg/3633128512.html
Last edited by HighspeedNazi at Apr 12, 2013,
steven seagull
not really a seagull
Join date: Oct 2006
1,064 IQ
#82
not my forum but i think i've seen enough
Actually called Mark!

Quote by TNfootballfan62
People with a duck for their avatar always give good advice.

...it's a seagull

Quote by Dave_Mc
i wanna see a clip of a recto buying some groceries.


stuffmycatswatchontv.tumblr.com
Mephaphil
No empty frets.
Join date: Apr 2012
1,956 IQ
#83
Thanks, Steven.
Quote by Shredwizard445
Go ahead and spend your money, I don't care. It won't make you sound better.


Quote by Shredwizard445
Sure upgrading your gear will make you sound better.


steven seagull
not really a seagull
Join date: Oct 2006
1,064 IQ
#84
Just in case anyone didn't realise , it was for this comment

Diamonds are a scam in my opinion for the very reason that DeBeers (A Jewish organization by the way) has brainwashed most women (the men have to tag along for the ride though) into thinking that diamonds are something special.


there was absolutely no reason whatsoever for the comment in brackets unless somebody has some kind of agenda to push
Actually called Mark!

Quote by TNfootballfan62
People with a duck for their avatar always give good advice.

...it's a seagull

Quote by Dave_Mc
i wanna see a clip of a recto buying some groceries.


stuffmycatswatchontv.tumblr.com
Mephaphil
No empty frets.
Join date: Apr 2012
1,956 IQ
#86
Isn't his profile picture and name enough to warrant some kind of ban? I'm not sure how it works to be honest.
Quote by Shredwizard445
Go ahead and spend your money, I don't care. It won't make you sound better.


Quote by Shredwizard445
Sure upgrading your gear will make you sound better.


Last edited by Mephaphil at Apr 12, 2013,
gregs1020
Hi mom!
Join date: Dec 2007
10,786 IQ
#87
Quote by MissingSomethin
As for general conversation, (1) how has the collector guitar market fared since the 2008 recession? (2) Is this a good time to get into the game? Or a bad one? (3) Have certain models dropped in value? (4) Have others gone even higher? (5) Are there certain segments you'd focus on? (6) Good deals these days? (7) Or priced too high, since everyone's getting in on the action? (8) Supply vs. demand? (9) Which one wins these days?


Quote by MissingSomethin
Originally Posted by MissingSomethin
As for general conversation,
(1) how has the collector guitar market fared since the 2008 recession?
(2) Is this a good time to get into the game? Or a bad one?
(3) Have certain models dropped in value?
(4) Have others gone even higher?
(5) Are there certain segments you'd focus on? (6) Good deals these days?
(7) Or priced too high, since everyone's getting in on the action?
(8) Supply vs. demand?
(9) Which one wins these days?


1 - it took a huge hit.
2 - it's always a good time.
3 - yes
4 - not really, most dropped some. the best stuff held on pretty well considering it was as overinflated as the real estate market.
5 - yes
6 - yes, very good.
7 - everyone isn't getting in on the action, where did you get that idea?
8 - as usual.
9 - cash wins everytime. there is still a supply and a demand.


1.1 - Can you share your insight?

1.2 - Can you give me some examples of how hard the market has been hit?
1.3 - Peak price vs. current price on a popular model?

1.4 - What segment would you focus on?
1.5 - What segment has the best value right now?
1.6 - Where are the best deals?


1.1 - Glad to, i just don't waste long replies when i don't know if someone is for real or just taking up space in our forums. you seem serious so i'll throw my .02 into it.

1.2 - The market got hit just like real estate did. prices dropped dramatically on some vintage gear. The vintage guitar buyers guide from 2007 would be interesting to compare to a 2009 or 2011 version. I haven't but now that i think about it i will next time i'm back by my guy's desk.

1.3 - But a couple years ago a friend of mine sold a '69 LPC in Ebony to guitar center for $7500. They listed it for around $9K. I'm fairly sure that guitar would have brought closer to $15k a few years earlier on the open market, maybe a lot more. for an example.

1.4 - well what i would focus on and what you want to do are two very different things. you mentioned pre-'65 strats, i'd support that idea. i'd also keep my eyes peeled for a pre-'57 les paul. i've seen '52s and '53s sell in the under $20k mark lately, in varying condition. those should hold value. occasionally a pre-'74 tele pops up cheap enough too.

1.5 - you're asking me to see the future here in a way. i can't say what is going to appreciate over something else. the good stuff holds it's value is about all i can say.

1.6 - the best deals are wherever someone needs cash the most. but you can find deals on various forum classifieds, g-base, ebay, craigslist, music stores. in all honesty, i'd avoid shopping on ebay unless you work with a seller you've worked with before. so many bullshitters out there, a bunch of risk. some of the online sellers listed here are ones i'd trust. elderly music and so on.

it depends on what you want. you say you want a vintage guitar to play that will hold it's value. most vintage guitars will do that so long as you don't get raped when you initially buy. but at that point it's not much different than shopping for any guitar. do you want a strat? tele? les paul? then figure out an honest budget and start looking around.

there is no shortage of good vintage guitars for sale out there.
MissingSomethin
Registered User
Join date: Mar 2013
1,121 IQ
#88
Thanks for the specifics... I'll avoid eBay... 15k down to 7k is a huge hit... Good to know the market is far from frothy.... No one wants to buy at the top... This is why i I've waited five years into the recession to start making a move...
1978 Les Paul Custom Sunburst
2001 USA Strat (Hot & Cool Rails)
Effects: Boss GT-6 with Tech-21 Power Amp
gregs1020
Hi mom!
Join date: Dec 2007
10,786 IQ
#89
well ebay is ok if you know the seller. some sellers are active on the forums and legit people to deal with. there's just a lot of scammers too.

what is your nearest major city?

edit: i just checked a couple nice sounding ads at tgp and every one of them sold on the first post. the vintage market is alive and well it seems.
Last edited by gregs1020 at Apr 13, 2013,
Fumble fingers
Registered User
Join date: Jan 2013
490 IQ
#91
best way to make a million off electric guitars is to start with two million


I would look at early G&L electric guitars as the next big thing collectible..... these were Leo Fenders finest guitars ever ... there is a couple nice early 1980 G&L Broadcasters on ebay right now that are gonna go through the roof in a few years
MissingSomethin
Registered User
Join date: Mar 2013
1,121 IQ
#92
It seems like 50s Les Paul's will be out of my price range, so it's down to a pre-CBS Strat. That makes it easier.

Since it seems the vintage guitar market is not really a sound "investment", I think I will go for a mostly original "player" grade Strat. This way, it looks more vintage, and things like refret and pots have been done, and the lower price reflects it. Win/win. A better playing guitar at a much lower price, and less exposure.
1978 Les Paul Custom Sunburst
2001 USA Strat (Hot & Cool Rails)
Effects: Boss GT-6 with Tech-21 Power Amp
MissingSomethin
Registered User
Join date: Mar 2013
1,121 IQ
#94
Thanks for the search and links. Don't you think that $5400 ad is a scam? I've seen that ad pasted for multiple cities. Price is obviously way too low, as well. The other $5000 is also just low enough to get suspicious, right?. Ad is very thin.
1978 Les Paul Custom Sunburst
2001 USA Strat (Hot & Cool Rails)
Effects: Boss GT-6 with Tech-21 Power Amp
gregs1020
Hi mom!
Join date: Dec 2007
10,786 IQ
#95
you have to scrutinize every ad and every guitar. i just posted some i found in a quick search.

the used guitars at GC and SA are also worth a look, i haven't even checked there.

plus all the vintage dealers, though some tend to be on the pricy-er side than even GC or SA.

(guitar center or sam ash)
MissingSomethin
Registered User
Join date: Mar 2013
1,121 IQ
#96
I talked to a guy who paid $22k for a '53 Goldtop in 2008. He recently sold it for $18k.
I also heard of a a guy who paid $18k for a pre-CBS Strat and is now getting about $14k for it.
About a 20% loss isn't terrible in a big recession. Could have been much worse.

I have a feeling inflated 3rd tier stuff took a much bigger hit, closer to 40%-50%?
1978 Les Paul Custom Sunburst
2001 USA Strat (Hot & Cool Rails)
Effects: Boss GT-6 with Tech-21 Power Amp
gregs1020
Hi mom!
Join date: Dec 2007
10,786 IQ
#97
i'd post a WTB ad on thegearpage and in the mylespaul forum classifieds and see what pops up.

that'd be interesting.
MissingSomethin
Registered User
Join date: Mar 2013
1,121 IQ
#98
$18,000 for a refinished 1960 Strat?
Seller says 2013 vintage price guide lists it $25,000-$40,000
What would you tell this seller? Any analysis of this guitar?
http://hudsonvalley.craigslist.org/msg/3730719753.html
1978 Les Paul Custom Sunburst
2001 USA Strat (Hot & Cool Rails)
Effects: Boss GT-6 with Tech-21 Power Amp
Last edited by MissingSomethin at Apr 15, 2013,
Stealthtastic
Registered User
Join date: Jun 2007
2,244 IQ
#99
Quote by MissingSomethin
I talked to a guy who paid $22k for a '53 Goldtop in 2008. He recently sold it for $18k.
I also heard of a a guy who paid $18k for a pre-CBS Strat and is now getting about $14k for it.
About a 20% loss isn't terrible in a big recession. Could have been much worse.

I have a feeling inflated 3rd tier stuff took a much bigger hit, closer to 40%-50%?



Yes, to be honest I wouldnt bother with vintage stuff anymore. All the guys that used to collect it are dying out pretty fast.
Want to Buy:

UV7PWH
MissingSomethin
Registered User
Join date: Mar 2013
1,121 IQ
#100
Quote by Stealthtastic
Yes, to be honest I wouldnt bother with vintage stuff anymore. All the guys that used to collect it are dying out pretty fast.


That's not necessarily true. Prices has retraced because there was a credit bubble and excess money chasing assets. This is a natural correction. Does not mean the buyers are gone. It just means they have less money, or more people are selling. You might be right, but you might be wrong.
1978 Les Paul Custom Sunburst
2001 USA Strat (Hot & Cool Rails)
Effects: Boss GT-6 with Tech-21 Power Amp
kangaxxter
tune up turn on rock out
Join date: Sep 2009
1,360 IQ
#101
Okay, so I've been reading this thread for a couple of days now, so I'm going to have to chirp in now.

Firstly, as investments go, Guitars are not great ones. Better than tech stocks, but not much else. The value of guitar is prone to a great many things that normal investments are subject to (e.g. demand, inflation, etc), but also depend highly on the condition of the instrument. I mean, I've seen "needs work" 60s and 70s Strats go for as low as a grand, but no matter how much work you put into it, it'll never be worth as much as an stock, original parts version of the same year. Most people who collect guitars as investments got those guitars either as hand-me-downs that were bought new 40+ years ago (or personally bought them 40+ years ago) at the original prices, or collect dozens of guitars hoping that one or two will eventually cover the loses on all of them. It's not really something that you just decide one day to jump into.

Secondly, if you're trying to buy a guitar as an investment AND play it regularly... what? I mean... I don't even know what to say, I don't even know where to begin! That's like saying you're going to buy an original Picasso to use as wallpaper. People who collect guitars as investments keep them in glass cases and under beds, not on stands or plugged into amps. Any time--every time--you strum that instrument, you risk devaluing your investment. If it slips out of your hand, or the strap slips and it gets dented, you've lost more than the guitar originally sold for, just like that. If you crack the headstock, (god forbid!) game over, $15k down the drain right there. You can't even install straplocks on it with out devaluing the instrument. I mean, playing an "investment" guitar... that's like smoking next to the Mona Lisa.


Buy real estate if you're looking for a good investment. Buy a vintage guitar if you're looking for a vintage guitar.
Actually, I go by Dave, but there are already too many Daves on this forum.


Fender MIM Stratocaster
Fender Jaguar Bass
Epiphone EJ200 Super Jumbo
Fender Excelsior 13w
Fender Rumble 100 V3
Eric Johnson Fuzz Face
NYC Big Muff Pi
Last edited by kangaxxter at Apr 15, 2013,
gregs1020
Hi mom!
Join date: Dec 2007
10,786 IQ
#102
Quote by MissingSomethin
$18,000 for a refinished 1960 Strat?
Seller says 2013 vintage price guide lists it $25,000-$40,000
What would you tell this seller? Any analysis of this guitar?
http://hudsonvalley.craigslist.org/msg/3730719753.html

pics are too small to really see much, but i'd say he's high. plus it's one of those "i'm away right now" type ads that often don't pan out. refinishing kills a value, even if everything else is right.
MissingSomethin
Registered User
Join date: Mar 2013
1,121 IQ
#103
I came across another refinished 1964 Strat for $6000. I think I've decided I don't want a refin. I'd either get a modern historic reissue for $1500-$2500 as a players guitar, or a collectible for $15k (that I play sometimes).
1978 Les Paul Custom Sunburst
2001 USA Strat (Hot & Cool Rails)
Effects: Boss GT-6 with Tech-21 Power Amp
Battery Chicken
Viva la Revolucion!
Join date: Aug 2006
434 IQ
#104
Buying vintage instruments is always a tricky business. I honestly think you're better off investing in limited runs of new stock, you're almost guarenteed to see an increase in value on them. Of course you still have to pick your brands carefully, Fender, Gibson, Martin - they're always going to attract interest.

Like the Brownie Strat for example - that's always going to draw a crowd. Limited to 100, Claptons name attached, Masterbuilt. Granted they're ridiculously overpriced, but it's a big ticket item that will always draw interest.
Last edited by Battery Chicken at Apr 17, 2013,
Tom 1.0
Hot For Teacher
Join date: Jun 2007
6,308 IQ
#106
Wow.

What a beautiful guitar.
Quote by Lemoninfluence
I'm not familiar with police procedures.




1977 Burny FLG70
MissingSomethin
Registered User
Join date: Mar 2013
1,121 IQ
#109
Based on my research this week, I think I am going to put my vintage guitar acquisition on hold. I think I've reached a stalemate.

. So, one needs to either become an expert, or buy from a trusted dealer. But, consensus also seems to be that many dealer prices are stuck in bubble fantasy land (which is why dealers are going out of business) So, if one doesn't want to pay inflated 2007 bubble prices, he risks buying a fake on Ebay/CL. I am not interested in overpaying for anything, frankly. I like a deal, which is what led me to this "buy low" idea in the first place.

Next is the dilemma of buying a collectible vs. player. I want a guitar to play. If you buy a vintage "player grade", then why bother? Refins seem to be the bastard child of guitars. All the downsides of a very old guitar (needs refret, etc), yet cost 3-5x as much as a reissue, but don't have any real collectibility. Lose/lose. You're probably better off buying a $2000 historic custom shop reissue that is probably just as good. The reissue might even be a cleaner, newer, better guitar than a true vintage.

I want to thank everyone here for their tips and advice. I've enjoyed reading this forum to learning about guitars and the market, and will continue to research and learn, just in case something comes my way. Reading and posting on a forum has also inspired me to start playing more regularly. The best move is to take that $10-$15k and spend it on a few years of lessons! I think I will resume taking lessons soon. I already have all the equipment a guy ever needs. I just need to keep expanding my ability. So, I am going to pivot, and start using this forum as a place to discuss actual guitar playing and music theory (instead of equipment buying advice) I'm looking forward to the next chapter in my playing!
1978 Les Paul Custom Sunburst
2001 USA Strat (Hot & Cool Rails)
Effects: Boss GT-6 with Tech-21 Power Amp
Last edited by MissingSomethin at Apr 20, 2013,
dannyalcatraz
Black Cherry Jello
Join date: Dec 2008
3,265 IQ
#110
In that case, get yourself a decent player's guitar- budget @$800+ if buying new (ditto for an amp)- find a good teacher, and enjoy one of the greatest lifetime passtimes ever invented by humanity!
Sturgeon's 2nd Law, a.k.a. Sturgeon's Revelation: “Ninety percent of everything is crap.”

Why, yes, I am a lawyer- thanks for asking!


alhaq369
It is very impotent to success a business.
MissingSomethin
Registered User
Join date: Mar 2013
1,121 IQ
#111
If you see my Sig, I already have several very nice player's guitars. I think introducing lessons is something that will take me to the next level. I also should start playing in bands again.
1978 Les Paul Custom Sunburst
2001 USA Strat (Hot & Cool Rails)
Effects: Boss GT-6 with Tech-21 Power Amp
Wesbanez
Registered Abuser
Join date: Aug 2007
1,380 IQ
#112
Quote by MissingSomethin
If you see my Sig, I already have several very nice player's guitars. I think introducing lessons is something that will take me to the next level. I also should start playing in bands again.


Should maybe considering sh1t canning this "Effects: Boss GT-6 with Tech-21 Power Amp" for something that'll do those great guitars justice
[thread="1575882"]Exotic Telecaster Build[/thread]

[thread="1363496"]2x12 Custom Build[/thread]


[thread="1339413"]The Official Egnater Thread V2[/THREAD]

[thread="1356444"]Seven String & ERG Legion[/THREAD]
dannyalcatraz
Black Cherry Jello
Join date: Dec 2008
3,265 IQ
#113
Ooooh...effects!

Lets see...Visual Sound, Pigtronix, Red Witch, Moog- these are but a few of the names you should learn!

Don't get me wrong- Boss makes some nice pedals: I love my Space Echo and my Rotary. But there are some very cool & innovative signal warpers out there!

Not to mention there are some truly astounding boutique amps that can cover so much more sonic territory than mainstream amps like my Fender HRD. I just don't have the drive to look around figuring out which sub-30w amp I want to spend $5000 on.
Sturgeon's 2nd Law, a.k.a. Sturgeon's Revelation: “Ninety percent of everything is crap.”

Why, yes, I am a lawyer- thanks for asking!


alhaq369
It is very impotent to success a business.
Last edited by dannyalcatraz at Apr 21, 2013,
MissingSomethin
Registered User
Join date: Mar 2013
1,121 IQ
#114
Quote by Wesbanez
Should maybe considering sh1t canning this "Effects: Boss GT-6 with Tech-21 Power Amp" for something that'll do those great guitars justice


I absolutely love my sound. Best sound I've ever gotten in 20 years of playing. It is just pure killer tone. Sounds like a true concert. And, such sustain and fluidity of saturation for my leads.. I will never go back to a dry tube amp again. My playing has never been better sounding. Best part? It never changes! I will never go back to analog ever again. I tossed my Marshall tube amp in the garbage after I got this thing.
1978 Les Paul Custom Sunburst
2001 USA Strat (Hot & Cool Rails)
Effects: Boss GT-6 with Tech-21 Power Amp
Last edited by MissingSomethin at Apr 21, 2013,
dannyalcatraz
Black Cherry Jello
Join date: Dec 2008
3,265 IQ
#115
You might- for giggles- check out the DigiTech iPB-10 multieffects pedal iPad housing and its 87 pedal models it ships with (with more models downloadable):

Wah:
DigiTech® Full Range
Dunlop® Cry Baby™ Wah
Vox® Clyde McCoy™ Wah
Compression:
Boss® CS-2 Compressor/Sustainer
DigiTech® Compressor
MXR® Dynacomp™
Noise Gate:
DigiTech® Auto Swell Gate
DigiTech® Noise Gate
Distortion:
Arbiter® Fuzz Face
Boss® DS-1 Distortion
Boss® MT-2 Metal Zone®
Boss® OD-1 Overdrive
Boss® SD-1 Overdrive
DOD® 250 Overdrive/Preamp
DOD® Classic Fuzz™
DOD® Gonkulator Ring Modulator
Demeter™ Fuzzulator™
DigiTech® Amp Driver
DigiTech® Death Metal™
DigiTech® Grunge®
DigiTech® Redline Overdrive
Electro-Harmonix® Big Muff Pi®
Guyatone Overdrive OD-2
Ibanez® Modified TS-9
Ibanez® TS-808 Tube Screamer™
Ibanez® TS-9 Tube Screamer™
MXR® Distortion +
ProCo Rat™
Roger Mayer Octavia
Voodoo Labs Sparkle Drive
Chorus:
Boss® CE-2 Chorus
DigiTech® Dual Chorus
DigiTech® Glistening Chorus
DigiTech® Multi-Chorus
Electro Harmonix® Small Clone
TC Electronics® Chorus
Voodoo Labs Analog Chorus
Flanger:
ADA™ Flanger
DigiTech® Filter Flanger
DigiTech® Flanger
DigiTech® Triggered Flanger
Electro Harmonix® Electric Mistress™
MXR® Flanger
Phaser:
DigiTech® Phaser
DigiTech® Triggered Phaser
Electro Harmonix® Small Stone™
MXR® Phase 100
Pitch:
Boss® OC-2 Octaver™
DigiTech® Detune
DigiTech® Harmony Pitch
DigiTech® Pitch Shift
DigiTech® Whammy™
Vibrato/Rotary:
DigiTech® Panner
DigiTech® Rotary
DigiTech® Vibrato
DigiTech® Vibro / Pan
Unicord Uni-Vibe™
Tremolo:
DigiTech® ScatterTrem – Dual tremolo
DigiTech® Tremolo
Fender® Opto Tremolo™
Vox® Bias Tremolo
Envelope:
DOD® FX25 Envelope Filter
DigiTech® Auto Yah™
DigiTech® Envelope Filter
DigiTech® Sample & Hold
DigiTech® Step Filter
DigiTech® Synth Talk™
DigiTech® YaYa™
EQ:
3-Band EQ
Delay:
2-Tap Delay
Analog Delay
Boss® DM-2 Analog Delay
Digital Delay
Lo Fi Delay
Maestro™ Echoplex EP-2
Modulated Delay
Pong Delay
Reverse Delay
Tape Delay
Reverb:
EMT® 240 Plate Reverb
Fender® Twin Spring Reverb™
Lexicon® Ambience
Lexicon® Hall
Lexicon® Room
Lexicon® Studio
Volume:
Volume Pedal
Sturgeon's 2nd Law, a.k.a. Sturgeon's Revelation: “Ninety percent of everything is crap.”

Why, yes, I am a lawyer- thanks for asking!


alhaq369
It is very impotent to success a business.
Last edited by dannyalcatraz at Apr 21, 2013,
MissingSomethin
Registered User
Join date: Mar 2013
1,121 IQ
#116
Thanks Danny, but the GT-6 has tons of effects and I am very happy with my guitar sound.
1978 Les Paul Custom Sunburst
2001 USA Strat (Hot & Cool Rails)
Effects: Boss GT-6 with Tech-21 Power Amp
John Drysdale
Registered User
Join date: Apr 2013
11 IQ
#117
I have a 1960 Jazzmaster (refinished) and a ~1979 Mosrite Ventures model (built by Semie Mosely with his hand carved initials under the tremolo setup). A reissue of his 1965 model. I plan to keep them for future value, but am playing them as well. Total investment for both around 6.6K.
I bought them more for playing than investing, but they should be a good long-term investment.
Last edited by John Drysdale at Apr 24, 2013,
sewkid
Registered User
Join date: Apr 2013
10 IQ
#118
My long-term investment was bought when I was a teenager. That was over 50 years ago. I paid $417.50 for my ‘59 Jazzmaster. It was my ‘player’ for about 3 years when I decided I wasn’t a 'player'. I never did learn. So, I parked it under the bed. I turned down $10,000.00 for it 15 years ago as I thought it was worth more. I am the original owner. It is all original, I have the original receipt, the hangtag and photos. Today, if someone waved $12,000.00 in front of me, my son will not get it in his inherent.