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Cathbard
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#1
So you're standing in front of a 100W stack (yes, some of us still do that) and you use feedback like Santana and Gary Moore. You want lots of feedback but you want the strings to be the only thing doing it. ie. absolutely no feedback from pickup microphonics.
You want something PAF like, preferably a tad hotter.

What do you buy? What has the least microphonics?

Go.
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#2
SD Pearly Gates.
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ragingkitty
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#3
I think most mass market production pups are potted which reduced microphoncity. Is budget an issue? If not a Stephen Design?
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Cathbard
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#4
Not really an issue but one does have to account for diminishing returns. Cheaper would be better of course but I'm thinking more of "what would I save for?" rather than "What's cheap to buy now?"

Pearly Gates were the first ones that sprung to my mind. That's the sort of output I am talking about so that ballpark but exceptional lack of microphonics is the prime factor.

PS: I'm currently running pups out of a Gibson LP Custom. They have to be substantially less microphonic than that to give you a reference. The tone is ok but they feed too easily.
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Last edited by Cathbard at Apr 14, 2013,
ragingkitty
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#5
DiMarzio's 36th Anniversary?
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Sputnik1
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#6
Just to start a list.
If you want boutique...

Lindy Fralin Pure PAF
WCR Moore/Greeny, etc
Bareknuckle Mule/PG Blues/Riff Raff
Lollar Imperials

Carvin C22N/C22J and C22T

On a budget...
GFS has standard output Alnico II and V PAFs and a hotter output V.

You really can't go wrong with Dimarzio/SDs.

This is an interesting read, kind of old though.
http://www.vintageguitar.com/3602/vg-paf-shoot-out-2005/


Not be TGP-esque. I'm sure someone has had experience with some of these.
Last edited by Sputnik1 at Apr 14, 2013,
stonyman65
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#7
SD Pearly Gates
SD '59
SD Alnico II
Dimarzio Air Classic
Dimarzio Bluesbucker
Dimarzio 36th Anniversary PAF

Having everything shielded good will help with that too. Nice and quiet.
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Cathbard
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#8
Sputnick. I have GFS Fat Pats in my Iceman and I can't really play it in front of my big rigs because it feeds microphonically like a bitch. So I think we may not be talking about the same thing. Just because a pickup is high quality and/or sounds good doesn't mean it won't be microphonic. It's that element alone that we are discussing really.
To be clear, I play very loud.

I'm wondering if it may be feasible to repot the Gibson ones. I may have to do some research into that. Maybe a different brew or something that gives better acoustic insulation.
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#9
can you swap the ceramic magnets for alnicos and repot them?

would be a lot cheaper than buying new pups.
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#10
My SD '59 isn't microphonic at all (at least compared to the Fat Pats, lololololol)
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Cathbard
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#11
Changing magnets? hmmm. I must think about that.


Yeah, the SD in my old Blazer is pretty good as far as microphonics goes too. The Pearly Gates option sounds like a good one.
Doesn't seem like many people are playing loud enough for this factor to be something that concerns them. It's a massive factor to me. The GFS pickups sound pretty nice but they are basically unuseable on anything but my small amps. I'd be prepared to take a hit on the tone if it meant no microphonics.
SD Pearly Gates would give me both good tone and low microphonics I think. It's at the top of the list so far.

So please guys restrict your comments to actual knowledge about microphonics. I mean you can say, "they sound good too" but don't just recommend nice boutique pups unless you specifically know that they have substantially better microphonics than a Gibson pup.
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Bigbazz
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#12
I wax potted the pickups in a strat I had given to me by my drummer, they were hilariously microphonic, put a bunch of mini candles in an old saucepan, inside a bigger saucepan with water, left them in there for around 15mins, completely fixed the microphonic issue of the pickups.

As for the suggestion, Bareknuckle Mule or Seymour Duncan 59 comes to mind.
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Sputnik1
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#13
Without trying them in your setup is there anyway you could know whether they are going to be microphonic or not? Since you can't measure it I don't know how you could tell without trying them. And then there's the issue of not every pickup of certain model is created equal. A pickup could be more microphonic than one of the exact make and model.
Last edited by Sputnik1 at Apr 14, 2013,
Bigbazz
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#14
Getting into specifics about pickups here.

I've only ever come accross 2 sets of microphonic pickups in my whole time playing guitar, both of them were very cheap pickups. Of all the Dimarzio, Seymour Duncan, Bareknuckle and Fender pickups I have a lot of experience with I've never come accross a pickup within those that was the least bit microphonic.

I really don't understand what the issue is here, it's as if you've got it into your head that microphonic pickups are normal. Perhaps cheap pickups you might find on very budget guitars or original unpotted pickups from 40-50 years ago, but not quality modern pickups.

Microphonic pickups also has a lot to do with the way they are mounted to the guitar, if there is for example a set of pickups on a warped scratchplate, causing the pickup in the slot to be tight, transfering the vibrations of the guitar through into the pickups, that can cause a pickup to feedback in a microphonic way.

So it's very important that a pickup is mounted in a way that it is not effected physically by the vibration of the guitar body, otherwise I fail to see how microphonics in a modern pickup are the least bit of an issue.
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Last edited by Bigbazz at Apr 14, 2013,
R45VT
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#15
Quote by Bigbazz
Getting into specifics about pickups here.

I've only ever come accross 2 sets of microphonic pickups in my whole time playing guitar, both of them were very cheap pickups. Of all the Dimarzio, Seymour Duncan, Bareknuckle and Fender pickups I have a lot of experience with I've never come accross a pickup within those that was the least bit microphonic.

I really don't understand what the issue is here, it's as if you've got it into your head that microphonic pickups are normal. Perhaps cheap pickups you might find on very budget guitars or original unpotted pickups from 40-50 years ago, but not quality modern pickups.

Microphonic pickups also has a lot to do with the way they are mounted to the guitar, if there is for example a set of pickups on a warped scratchplate, causing the pickup in the slot to be tight, transfering the vibrations of the guitar through into the pickups, that can cause a pickup to feedback in a microphonic way.

So it's very important that a pickup is mounted in a way that it is not effected physically by the vibration of the guitar body, otherwise I fail to see how microphonics in a modern pickup are the least bit of an issue.


He plays on 10. 100W amp on 10.
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#16
Gibson Custombucker - the ones in the Kossof and other CS Reissues. I will never forget how much fun playing that guitar at 10 through the Malmsteem sig stack was.
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mmolteratx
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#17
Quote by Cathbard
Sputnick. I have GFS Fat Pats in my Iceman and I can't really play it in front of my big rigs because it feeds microphonically like a bitch. So I think we may not be talking about the same thing. Just because a pickup is high quality and/or sounds good doesn't mean it won't be microphonic. It's that element alone that we are discussing really.
To be clear, I play very loud.

I'm wondering if it may be feasible to repot the Gibson ones. I may have to do some research into that. Maybe a different brew or something that gives better acoustic insulation.


You should be able to repot the pickups I sent you. I don't remember having any problems with them at stupid volumes though. And by stupid volumes, I mean my old OD100 cranked to 10 before I got an attenuator. They did start to feedback when I got close to the cab though. I haven't ever really had problems with microphonic pickups though. My Throbaks aren't even potted and wouldn't ring or anything with my Cameron's clean (Plexi) channel cranked all the way up.
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#18
Quote by R45VT
He plays on 12. 100W amp on 12.


Corrected for accuracy.
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Cathbard
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#19
I was getting away with it using a 4x12 but with the 6x12 it is a bit of a pain. It isn't taking off all the time but it makes it hard when I'm working a feedback note (so moving closer to the cab to adjust the nuances of the note). The difference in location between varying the string feedback and microphonic feedback setting in is too close and a bit onerous to control. You know how it is, microphonics takes off so you turn away and lose the beautifully sustained note you were working.

edit: I should say; I'm having no problems with my EMG's but when I'm playing Santana and Gary Moore I'm using the Yammy SG to get the right tone and that's when I'm doing the most intricate feedback work (of course).
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Last edited by Cathbard at Apr 14, 2013,
ikey_
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#20
sheptone. i keep saying this cause they are incredible pups, nobody gives em love. i know many pro musicians, music majors, jazz guitarists that buy these things in a religious like following.
http://sheptone.com/landing.html

oh yeah, how about these guys?
http://www.riograndepickups.com

or these guys?
http://motorcitypickups.com

bare knuckle...to win the popular vote. nobody believes poor ikey with the boutique suggestions.....sure buy a seymour duncan like every dude in guitar center
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Cathbard
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#21
When was the last time you saw a Jazz guitarist working feedback - just sayin'
Well controlled feedback is something I'm known for. It's an important part of my playing. I need good feedback (hence the 6x12) but I can't have microphonics screwing things up.
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Last edited by Cathbard at Apr 14, 2013,
ikey_
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#22
true....my point was the dudes im referring to know there sh*t and go to the end of the earth yo find good stuff, not walk in to GC and buy something cause its whats there....

if you needed a good PAF, you wont find a better one than whats on those sites
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Bigbazz
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#23
Quote by ikey_
sheptone. i keep saying this cause they are incredible pups, nobody gives em love. i know many pro musicians, music majors, jazz guitarists that buy these things in a religious like following.
http://sheptone.com/landing.html

oh yeah, how about these guys?
http://www.riograndepickups.com

or these guys?
http://motorcitypickups.com

bare knuckle...to win the popular vote. nobody believes poor ikey with the boutique suggestions.....sure buy a seymour duncan like every dude in guitar center



Well Bareknuckle are boutique pickups too, they became so successful and popular based on a good reputation for excellent customer service (talking to the company owner on the phone to discuss your pickup choice/specs) and pickups that were considered a step above the other aftermarket pickups. Bareknuckle may seem pretty mainstream today but just a few years back they were a small relatively unknown boutique company too.

People find it hard to take a risk on relatively unknown pickups though, your boutique suggestions may be the greatest pickups on the planet but the prospective buyer has to take a risk on the unknown or go with a pickup they will know for sure can deliver the goods.
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Cathbard
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#24
As I said earlier, a good pickup isn't always going to be low microphonics. I am talking about a specific parameter for a specific application. High volume intentional feedback.
Anything PAF like (I prefer a little hotter) will get me close enough to my tone for gigging so the sound quality doesn't matter as much, as long as they aren't shit. The deal is that they have to cope with that specific situation. If the best sounding pup in the world was microphonic in that situation it's of no use to me.
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Last edited by Cathbard at Apr 15, 2013,
Bigbazz
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#25
I still fail to understand what you mean. A modern potted pickup should not be microphonic, what guitar are you using for this? How are the pickups mounted?
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Cathbard
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#26
It's a Yamaha SG. So identical to a Gibson Les Paul except for the shape.
Have you ever played in front of a really loud amp with a lot of speakers? Lots of pickups behave microphonically in that situation. As I said earlier, my guitar with the GFS pups is unplayable at that volume whereas my Gilchrist with EMG's I can hold right up to the speakers and all that feeds are the strings.
All of these guitar's pups are mounted to the body the same way. The Yammy is ok until I get closer to the speakers when I'm working the note.
I don't expect anything to be as good as the EMG's but I don't want EMG's playing some music. Some songs just need passive buckers - and they have different scale lengths. Also, I think that putting EMG's on a Yammy SG is a hanging offence. Really low microphonics would be wonderful. I could do what I do with my Gilchrist with my SG.
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Last edited by Cathbard at Apr 15, 2013,
R45VT
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#27
Quote by ikey_
true....my point was the dudes im referring to know there sh*t and go to the end of the earth yo find good stuff, not walk in to GC and buy something cause its whats there....

if you needed a good PAF, you wont find a better one than whats on those sites


So you think an obscure pick-up is better than a well known, be it DiMarzio or Seymour Duncan?

I don't get the point of not buying something that will work because it is sold at GC. Shit, didn't you just walk in one and buy the TC looper? Makes no sense.

Pearly Gate is a hot rodded PAF. It's exactly what he is after. They are potted. I have not tested mine with an amp on 12 though.
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dementiacaptain
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#28
Cath, I don't think this was a good thread to make here
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Cathbard
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#29
Well, what's stopping you? Turn it up. You only have to do it for a few seconds. By the time anybody picks up a phone to call the cops you'll have stopped. A Pearly Gates is at the top of my list. Crank it man and cats, dogs and little old ladies be damned.
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#30
Quote by ikey_
sheptone. i keep saying this cause they are incredible pups, nobody gives em love. i know many pro musicians, music majors, jazz guitarists that buy these things in a religious like following.
http://sheptone.com/landing.html

oh yeah, how about these guys?
http://www.riograndepickups.com

or these guys?
http://motorcitypickups.com

bare knuckle...to win the popular vote. nobody believes poor ikey with the boutique suggestions.....sure buy a seymour duncan like every dude in guitar center


Eh. My Sheps definitely feedback more than my Throbaks. Great pickups, but not what he's looking for.
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R45VT
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#31
Quote by dementiacaptain
Cath, I don't think this was a good thread to make here


I can't even go past 2 on my metal amps with a drummer without being too loud. And thats in a large jam room. I'm not sure how Cath pulls off the fully cranked Marshall 900 think for a gig.

I just imagine peoples ears bleeding as they walk out of one of his gigs.


Quote by Cathbard
Well, what's stopping you? Turn it up. You only have to do it for a few seconds. By the time anybody picks up a phone to call the cops you'll have stopped. A Pearly Gates is at the top of my list. Crank it man and cats, dogs and little old ladies be damned.



I'll let you know next weekend.
Quote by DeathByDestroyr
See, it's important that people clarify when they say "metal", because I pretty much always assume they are a Cannibal Corpse fanboi.
Last edited by R45VT at Apr 15, 2013,
Cathbard
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#32
They had to crank the drums up through the PA on Saturday. I wasn't even miked up.


Yeah, that'd be fine man. I'm not in a rush, I can live with the LP pups and they do sound very nice. I'll just have to be careful.


Btw. I have blown the power tubes on three amps in as many weeks. I wonder if there's a correlation.
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Last edited by Cathbard at Apr 15, 2013,
dementiacaptain
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#33
Quote by R45VT
I can't even go past 2 on my metal amps with a drummer without being too loud. And thats in a large jam room. I'm not sure how Cath pulls off the fully cranked Marshall 900 .


I know it, I used to play louder when I was still with my obnoxious ass drummer, but never cranked, I mean I got to 6 occasionally on the Bugera but that was it
I'm just a kickin' and a gougin' in the mud and the blood and the beer.
R45VT
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#34
^I went to 6 on one of my Blue Doodoos. I am going to drag the other one out next weekend as well as the 6505. Put them through the paces. The damn 5150's/6505's are just monsters.... past 3 and I don't hear the drums.

Quote by Cathbard
They had to crank the drums up through the PA on Saturday. I wasn't even miked up.


Yeah, that'd be fine man. I'm not in a rush, I can live with the LP pups and they do sound very nice. I'll just have to be careful.


Jesus... It's not the sixties... this is why we have attenuators. You could actually use one.


I'll see how loud I can get my 6505 before the tubes break up.


Quote by Cathbard


Btw. I have blown the power tubes on three amps in as many weeks. I wonder if there's a correlation.


Well if you are going to make a tube commit suicide that is the way to do it!
Quote by DeathByDestroyr
See, it's important that people clarify when they say "metal", because I pretty much always assume they are a Cannibal Corpse fanboi.
Last edited by R45VT at Apr 15, 2013,
dementiacaptain
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#35
The answer: Stupid loud as all hell. I have tried with my 6505+ 112, it's quite an effort to get power tube breakup, I got to 8 on the dial before I got any. Very, very loud
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#36
Wtf use is an attenuator? I need volume, not distortion. Don't forget, I used to use the JCM900 as a pedal.
I'm probably gonna run two amps once I sort out what happened to the Abbey. I think I'm gonna need another 1960.
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Last edited by Cathbard at Apr 15, 2013,
R45VT
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#37
Your audience needs ear plugs and ear muffs.
Quote by DeathByDestroyr
See, it's important that people clarify when they say "metal", because I pretty much always assume they are a Cannibal Corpse fanboi.
Cathbard
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#38
Nah, they just need to drink more beer.
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#39
Quote by R45VT
^I went to 6 on one of my Blue Doodoos. I am going to drag the other one out next weekend as well as the 6505. Put them through the paces. The damn 5150's/6505's are just monsters.... past 3 and I don't hear the drums.

Jesus... It's not the sixties... this is why we have attenuators. You could actually use one.

I'll see how loud I can get my 6505 before the tubes break up.

Well if you are going to make a tube commit suicide that is the way to do it!


my blue voodoo doesn't even start to get lout until around noon. i actually did get it all the way up, but it was really damn loud. i don't know which guitar i used, but i definitely got feeback.
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Quote by andersondb7
youre just being a jerk man.
R45VT
Doesn't speak guitar
Join date: Dec 2009
1,110 IQ
#40
Quote by trashedlostfdup
my blue voodoo doesn't even start to get lout until around noon. i actually did get it all the way up, but it was really damn loud. i don't know which guitar i used, but i definitely got feeback.


My Blue one didn't even really start to work until 2. The black one is on full by the time you hit 1.
Quote by DeathByDestroyr
See, it's important that people clarify when they say "metal", because I pretty much always assume they are a Cannibal Corpse fanboi.