#1
My bass player and I were having a disagreement about this during rehearsal last night. It's of his opinion that the master of each channel be turned down the final output be turned up. I usually have the gain on channel 2 at about 1:00 and the master pegged. He was blaming that on a lot of the feedback problems we have @ rehearsals. So he opted to turn down the master and turn up the gain. I thought there was some loss of tone.

The other issue is that 1/2 our songs are clean and 1/2 distortion or heavy. With a live show coming up, this is still an issue for me. I switch from a good tone with ample volume on channel 2 and then switch to channel 1 clean and have to use the solo boost switch to compensate for the volume loss.

Is this right? Or should I shut off the effects loop in the back and just use the masters on channel 1 and 2 as the final output volume? I haven't tried this yet. I'm just wondering what I'm supposed to do. I'm mainly a guitarist and songwriter and singer. I don't know much about this stuff.

Thanks in advance.
#2
Use the master volume if you use the fx loop.

Set channel one's volume for the tone you want, and set the master to the volume you need it to be. Then tweak your channel two's volume to match channel one.

If you don't use the fx loop, adjust the channel volume of each channel to match each.
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#3
If you have the FX loop not bypassed you have a volume for each channel and the a master volume.

I got ninja'd.



I would not have either the channel or the master pegged. Work them together.


If you want to turn the FX loop off you have to work the channel volumes to be level.


Are the channels on the same wattage? For lots of headroom have them at 90w.


Try to be more specific so we can better help.
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Last edited by R45VT at Apr 18, 2013,
#5
One thing that puzzles me.... how could you come into possession of a MkV without figuring out such a basic matter like balancing your channel volume. I don't wanna think about how you use the features of your MkV.
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#7
Those damn volume controls, having to be so cryptic in their meaning...
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#9
Quote by 311ZOSOVHJH
you know what they say.....they take months to dial in


Quote by DeathByDestroyr
See, it's important that people clarify when they say "metal", because I pretty much always assume they are a Cannibal Corpse fanboi.
#10
Quote by 311ZOSOVHJH
you know what they say.....they take months to dial in


Yeah you also need to appease the machine spirits of the amp to get them to level your volume for you.
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#11
The main issue is the type of guitars I use. I use resonator guitars with highlander pickups for cleans, this is essentially a piezo pickup. Yeah I know it's not an acoustic amp, so save me the bashing.

Some of the resonators have p90's some have a single coil lollar pickup and they also have highlander piezo as mentioned. I'm starting to think that in a live situation, the piezos aren't going to work out and I'm going to have to use the coiled pickups for cleans as well vs. the highlander pickups.

I'm just simply wondering what others do, that is if they set the masters of each channel to be the same volume than use the final output for volume, or disable the effects loop and use each channels master for the final output volume, which disables the final output when you disable the effects loop via a toggle on the back of the amp.
#12
Quote by ragingkitty
One thing that puzzles me.... how could you come into possession of a MkV without figuring out such a basic matter like balancing your channel volume. I don't wanna think about how you use the features of your MkV.


I have 2 of these. A head and a combo amp. I'm not an amp guy. I write songs and play guitar and sing for my band. I wanted what I thought was the best amp out there. It works mint for the heavy sh*t we do, but there is a significant volume drop because of the types of pickups in the guitar.

So, save me the bashing please, I know it's fun to bash a guy who is ignorant about how stuff works, but I have been primarily an acoustic guy my whole life, who formed a band and now is dealing with these issues of volume differences between cleans and distortion.

Most of you have it simple as you use one guitar and the same configuration pretty much. I plan to use 6 different guitars when we do shows, because of the different tunings, most of which have been acoustic so far, which I use a small acoustic amp for. We're starting to do some bigger stuff, which is why I bought these amps in the first place. So, what I'm doing is not typical. But that's why we sound different, other than the 900000 other bands out there.
#13


I'm still not seeing your problem, regardless of the types of pickups between guitars, changing the type of pickup doesn't affect your volumes BETWEEN guitar amp channels.

Regardless of type. pickup A wont give low out put to channel 1 but high output to channel 2, while pickup B won't give high output to channel 1 and then give low output to channel 2.

Either approach works.

However DEPENDING on the sound you like, you might like to have your master high and your preamp volume low. Tis will drive your power stage harder, and thus resulting in most of your tonal characteristics coming from your power tubes as they soft clip.

On the other hand, having your preamp high and your master low will drive your preamp stage harder for more volume. This will result in your tone being affected more by your preamp tubes.

Overall there's no right or wrong, it's just what sound you like.

However, as I re-read your original post, I noticed that you're driving your gain pretty hard, there is a possibility your preamp tubes might be noisy tubes... This will resulting in higher noise ratios than if you depended more on your power stage for volume.

What're your usage habits like on the MkV?
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Last edited by ragingkitty at Apr 19, 2013,
#14
Quote by knuckleslammer
So, save me the bashing please, I know it's fun to bash a guy who is ignorant about how stuff works, but I have been primarily an acoustic guy my whole life, who formed a band and now is dealing with these issues of volume differences between cleans and distortion. .


Take a chill pill, dude.

If you've read GG&A enough, you'd realise we might be having a laugh at your expense, but our comments are no where near bashing standards.

Now that you're giving a clearer idea of your situation it's easier to understand where you're coming from.

That said, this should be fairly clear cut that if you're always going to be tweaking your volume, set your channels first, then use your master volume to adjust the output accordingly. You'd only need to fiddle with one volume rather than 3.

On top of that, you could also consider a volume pedal? It'd really reduce the effort of reaching over and twiddling a knob.

Like I said, I'd also check your preamp tubes if I were you. Change them out for some low noise tubes, then you can dime your channel volumes and set your master lower.

I find that reissue TungSol 12AX7 work nicely for the MkV especially in the V1 position. I personally hate JJ 12AX7 because they sound extremely dark and gives you a muddy bass tone, however YMMV.

Stay far away from EHX 12AX7, those are the noisiest tubes I've ever test in my MkV.

Also, in my experience with the Mark, it's not the greatest idea to overly rely on either the preamp or power section for your volume needs. The MkV sounds best when you have a balance of your preamp and power stage contributing to your overall volume levels.
Quote by Blompcube
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Last edited by ragingkitty at Apr 19, 2013,
#15
Quote by knuckleslammer
It's of his opinion that the master of each channel be turned down the final output be turned up. I usually have the gain on channel 2 at about 1:00 and the master pegged. He was blaming that on a lot of the feedback problems we have @ rehearsals. So he opted to turn down the master and turn up the gain. I thought there was some loss of tone.
He doesn't know what he's on about.

If you're getting feedback, it doesn't matter if you get your volume by putting the channel up and master down or master up and channel down. If you've got too much feedback then you need to reduce the volume in relation to your guitar. How you do that is up to you; turn the gain down, turn the channel volume down, turn the master volume down or simply stand further from the speakers.

As far as tone goes, it's all subjective. Some people prefer more power amp compression and less preamp gain, other people like to only use preamp gain and have the power amp working as cool as possible.

Really, the others are right. Simply balancing channel volume is very simple; turn knobs until they sound even with each other then use the master volume to set your overall volume. This goes for most other aspects, too. Try things 'till they sound good. It doesn't cost any money and only takes ten seconds to move a knob, listen to it and decide if you like it or not.

The most important thing here, I believe, is to tell your bass player to back off your gear. Maybe it's just me, but whether somebody is in the same band or not, nobody touches my amp's controls. Nobody dicks about with my guitars for me. If someone doens't like something about my sound then they can tell me and I'll see what I can do to reach a compromise, but they are to never walk over and start messing with my gear directly. Get that in order, first.
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#16
Well the main thing I was wondering about was whether folks with these amps disable the effects loop, thereby disabling the final output and using each channels master as the final output volume control. Doesn't seem like it.

The main problem is channel 1 (clean) Seems I have to jack the gain and master to get the same volume as the distortion channel. By having to turn the gain past 12:00 on channel 1, this causes a bit of breakup, which I don't want on channel one. As for my bass player, he's just trying to help. I'm a fool with this stuff as I said. Appreciate the insight. Yeah I got a bit testy there. I'm not a morning person Sorry for that.
#17
Quote by knuckleslammer
Well the main thing I was wondering about was whether folks with these amps disable the effects loop, thereby disabling the final output and using each channels master as the final output volume control. Doesn't seem like it.

The main problem is channel 1 (clean) Seems I have to jack the gain and master to get the same volume as the distortion channel. By having to turn the gain past 12:00 on channel 1, this causes a bit of breakup, which I don't want on channel one. As for my bass player, he's just trying to help. I'm a fool with this stuff as I said. Appreciate the insight. Yeah I got a bit testy there. I'm not a morning person Sorry for that.


I left my FX loop on just so I could keep the volume under control.

Try it off and see if it works better for you.
Quote by DeathByDestroyr
See, it's important that people clarify when they say "metal", because I pretty much always assume they are a Cannibal Corpse fanboi.
#18
Use a combination of your gain AND channel volume to get your channel 1's volume up... while you can lower your channel 2's and 3's channel volume (or gain if you don't need that much distortion) to balance it out.

Also, on channel 1, use the clean and fat modes for a cleaner sound than the tweed mode.

You can also use 90watts for lots of clean headroom on channel 1, but 45watts for slightly less volume and a stronger pushed sound on channel 2 and 3.
Quote by Blompcube
it's so cool to hate Gibson, even the federal Department of Justice hates them.

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#19
Quote by knuckleslammer
Well the main thing I was wondering about was whether folks with these amps disable the effects loop, thereby disabling the final output and using each channels master as the final output volume control. Doesn't seem like it.

The main problem is channel 1 (clean) Seems I have to jack the gain and master to get the same volume as the distortion channel. By having to turn the gain past 12:00 on channel 1, this causes a bit of breakup, which I don't want on channel one. As for my bass player, he's just trying to help. I'm a fool with this stuff as I said. Appreciate the insight. Yeah I got a bit testy there. I'm not a morning person Sorry for that.


The original question wasn't quite as silly as these guys were making it out to be. There is definitely a tonal difference between running high master volume and low channel volume vs a low master volume and a high channel volume. So if you're the kind of guy who prefers the sound of a high channel volume then getting the cleans to be loud enough can be a bit of a challenge.

So... Do you actually use the FX loop or Solo Boost? If you don't use either, then turn it off. Problem solved, and you'll end up with slightly better tone in the process.

If you do use either of those features then I find a balanced approach is key.

- First, balance is the key.... I've found that diming the volume on any channel generally results in feedback. By lowering the channel volume and raising the master you can generally keep the volume the same but reduce feedback slightly. I'm not sure why this is the case, at first I thought it was a tube thing, but after a full retube my MKV still does it.

Clean balance. Generally I run the gain on the clean at 1-1:30 and the volume at noon, then roll back the volume on the guitar to clean up the sound if required. Also, I'd recommend against using either the preset depth or the GEQ if you're using the Fat Clean mode... It just won't cut through...

Generally at gigs I run the MV between 11:00 - 1:00 which means I generally have to run the volumes on channels 2-3 at 11:00 or less depending on the mode. If you want a higher channel volume then you can cut the wattage down to 50 or 10, or you can pull out some mids and highs to make your tone less cutting (Not that I'd recommend doing that)...