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#41
Quote by SlackerBabbath
I've said it before and I'll say it again, vegetarians are responsible for the existence of meat replacement products that apparently taste like the real thing... but how do they know that they taste like the real thing?
Obviously because they get someone who eats meat to compare the two, ergo, vegetarianism is inadvertantly causing animals to be slaughtered.
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#42
Quote by metacarpi
True, but given the way our teeth have evolved to include incisors, it's pretty clear that meat has been a stpale part of the human diet for 1,000's of years.

So?

Judging by history, Smallpox is a natural part of being human. Do you propose we bring it back because it's natural?
#43
Quote by MadClownDisease
No, due to the way we have evolved we require certain nutrients, evolution doesn't dictate we must eat meat. In fact you just said it yourself, we can get all these nutrients elsewhere.

Meat does taste great though (well not all meat obviously, but that goes for anything).

The point is that meat is where ALL of those amino acids are. Those who don't eat meat are often deficient in at least one essential amino acid chain because, while nuts contain some amino acids, they don't contain all of the ones we need to function properly. The rest goes for tofu, and whatever else. While rabbits are literally the only animal we eat that don't contain every protein you need.
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#44
You sure told all those vegetarians that we have here
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#45
Quote by VanTheKraut
The point is that meat is where ALL of those amino acids are. Those who don't eat meat are often deficient in at least one essential amino acid chain because, while nuts contain some amino acids, they don't contain all of the ones we need to function properly. The rest goes for tofu, and whatever else. While rabbits are literally the only animal we eat that don't contain every protein you need.

Yes, but that they don't all occur in one place apart from in animals doesn't mean someone can't have a balanced diet with all of them whilst not eating any animals. You just eat more than one type of food. It's really not an issue.

Quote by metacarpi
True, but given the way our teeth have evolved to include incisors, it's pretty clear that meat has been a stpale part of the human diet for 1,000's of years.

We ate meat to survive, the fact it's meat is neither here nor there. We have canines as it helped us to survive and those teeth developed, but that doesn't mean we still need to eat meat nor that our teeth tell us what we should do.

EDIT: That was badly phrased, what I mean is that eating meat wasn't the aim of the game, surviving was. We got canines as it bettered our survival historically. That's no longer an issue for most people as meat isn't necessary to survive.
Last edited by MadClownDisease at Apr 19, 2013,
#46
I'm a vegetarian. Not because I like animals, but because my tastebuds are ******ed. I have a small amount of foods that I eat, and I'm still alive and functioning.

Even the smell of meat alone makes me sick.

I would punch an animal to death if need be, I just don't care. Loose.
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#47
I am not a vegetarian because I love animals; I am a vegetarian because I hate plants.
A. Whitney Brown
...Stapling helium to penguins since 1949.
#48
Quote by jrcsgtpeppers
it doesnt. youve got mayb e 10% of the worlds population at most not eat meat. that does not help the cause at all. its avoiding the problem. just keep that in mind. someone else will always eat your burger you didnt buy.

How does someone else eat the burger that I didn't? Are meateaters going to double their intake of meat?

edit: vegetarians get their aminoacids not just from vegetables but also from diary products and eggs.
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Last edited by Neo Evil11 at Apr 19, 2013,
#49
Quote by Neo Evil11
How does someone else eat the burger that I didn't? Are meateaters going to double their intake of meat?

edit: vegetarians get their aminoacids not just from vegetables but also from diary products and eggs.

I will. I'm thinking about a bacon burger for lunch. Five Guys, anyone?
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#50
Quote by VanTheKraut
I will. I'm thinking about a bacon burger for lunch. Five Guys, anyone?

Have fun. I don't see how this is extra though, you most likely would have eaten that burger anyway.
Quote by Carmel
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ಠ_ಠ
#51
Quote by Neo Evil11
How does someone else eat the burger that I didn't? Are meateaters going to double their intake of meat?

edit: vegetarians get their aminoacids not just from vegetables but also from diary products and eggs.


If the issue is cruelty to animals how can you justify eating dairy and egg products? Egg laying chickens are the ones kept in the shittest conditions because the fitness of the hen is that important to egg-laying, and dairy cows suffer a great number of degenerative diseases, both genetic and physical, thanks to the fact that they have udders that are five times the size they should be. Seems to me that if you decry animal cruelty and the eat eggs you're just as much at fault as someone who eats meat. It's not the killing that's the cruel part.
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#52
Quote by Todd Hart
If the issue is cruelty to animals how can you justify eating dairy and egg products? Egg laying chickens are the ones kept in the shittest conditions because the fitness of the hen is that important to egg-laying, and dairy cows suffer a great number of degenerative diseases, both genetic and physical, thanks to the fact that they have udders that are five times the size they should be. Seems to me that if you decry animal cruelty and the eat eggs you're just as much at fault as someone who eats meat. It's not the killing that's the cruel part.

You do know that you actually can get eggs from chickens that can walk around freely right? Same goes for the milk.

I assume you don't know because you only look at the cheap ones. Never in my life have my parents or I bought eggs that were from the battery.
Quote by Carmel
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ಠ_ಠ
#53
Quote by Neo Evil11
You do know that you actually can get eggs from chickens that can walk around freely right? Same goes for the milk.

I assume you don't know because you only look at the cheap ones. Never in my life have my parents or I bought eggs that were from the battery.


Yes, but the vast majority aren't because it is far less economically viable.

And whenever you've bought anything with pastry it'll most likely have used battery farmed eggs. Same goes for pretty much all egg products that you've bought, and milk products. To pretend that you haven't contributed to the demand is naive.
...Stapling helium to penguins since 1949.
#54
Quote by MadClownDisease
Which, if your issue is animal welfare, is not a problem

I just find it personally amusing that the whole "We need to protect animals!" movement is essentially moving for less of these animals to exist overall. Instead of killing, they're preventing birth.
#55
Quote by Todd Hart
Yes, but the vast majority aren't because it is far less economically viable.

Not my problem, I buy what I want and I can't stop other people buying from what they want.
Quote by Carmel
I can't believe you are whoring yourself out like that.

ಠ_ಠ
#56
Quote by VanTheKraut
The point is that meat is where ALL of those amino acids are. Those who don't eat meat are often deficient in at least one essential amino acid chain because, while nuts contain some amino acids, they don't contain all of the ones we need to function properly. The rest goes for tofu, and whatever else. While rabbits are literally the only animal we eat that don't contain every protein you need.

Yes, this is completely true. As you can clearly see, every vegetarian ever has died because they haven't been eating all the amino acids they need


But seriously I'm so fucking healthy.
#57
lol a lot of people treat vegetarianism as an eating disorder

I've decided to be pescatarian now because of 1) bird flu 2) I'm starting to dislike the taste of non-fried chicken 3) more excuses to try new sushi places
cat
#58
Quote by guitarxo
lol a lot of people treat vegetarianism as an eating disorder

I've decided to be pescatarian now because of 1) bird flu 2) I'm starting to dislike the taste of non-fried chicken 3) more excuses to try new sushi places


You can't get bird flu from cooked poultry, or pork, or beef.

And eating fish is far more ecologically damaging.
...Stapling helium to penguins since 1949.
#59
Quote by CoreysMonster
I just find it personally amusing that the whole "We need to protect animals!" movement is essentially moving for less of these animals to exist overall. Instead of killing, they're preventing birth.

Oh aye it all depends on your motivations really I guess!

In terms of basic moral motivation, I think moral value lies in mental states, so there being no mental state at all isn't really a problem for me. No cow is neither better nor worse than there being cow in terms of its mental states. Similarly killing animals isn't really what bothers me, it's about suffering. Dairy can be just as bad if not worse than meat in terms of suffering caused.

(of course there are issues with how to compare existence with non-existence, but it's the best position I have at the moment! I'll actually be writing an essay on the topic in the next few weeks I think.)
#60
Quote by Todd Hart
You can't get bird flu from cooked poultry, or pork, or beef.

And eating fish is far more ecologically damaging.

Right, but only if its properly cooked. I don't really like pork or beef though.

I don't care if I'm damaging the environment by eating fish I can't really eat anything else
cat
#61
Quote by Todd Hart
I am not a vegetarian because I love animals; I am a vegetarian because I hate plants.
A. Whitney Brown
Quote by VanTheKraut
I will. I'm thinking about a bacon burger for lunch. Five Guys, anyone?
Quote by Todd Hart
You can't get bird flu from cooked poultry, or pork, or beef.

And eating fish is far more ecologically damaging.
Also mercury.
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#62
I refuse to properly contribute to this thread because I haven't read anything that anyone says, and instead I'll say that eating only one kind of anything is nothing short of stupid. Here's an article about a dinosaur that shows you why eating only one thing is stupid (same thing as anyone who only eats meat... if that exists) ... http://www.dinosaurfact.net/Cretaceous/Nigersaurus.php
#63
I couldn't give a fuck if other people still eat meat. I think it's wrong, so I don't do it.
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#64
Quote by Guodlca
Okay. 25% of the worlds population becomes vegetarian today. Do you still serve just as much from now on? No, because 25% is quite alot?
At what percent does it become noticeable then? 5, 10, 15%?
You can't just set a percentage at which it becomes noticeable and at that point it does actually decrease the production of meat.


There is actually an entire branch of mathematics that deals with setting a percentage at which it becomes noticeable. Granted you are right, in that you actually have to use it.
#65
I'm a vegan. I initially became a vegetarian because I couldn't tolerate the idea of an animal going through a factory farm just because I happened to think that it tasted good.

The argument about teeth is false, or at least equivocal. Humans have molars and our jaws can move from side to side in order to grind. That's not characteristic of a meat eater.

Vegan/vegetarian diets harming children is also false. There are plenty of websites that share the horrors of kids being raised as vegetarians/vegans. Here's one: http://whatstheharm.net/childvegetarianism.html. But a lot of those cases have problems aside from a vegetable-based diet. Here's a website that says vegan kids are just fine: http://www.mnn.com/food/healthy-eating/stories/is-it-safe-for-kids-to-be-vegan.

Do what you feel you must, I suppose.
#66
Quote by ohp-kyle
I'm a vegan. I initially became a vegetarian because I couldn't tolerate the idea of an animal going through a factory farm just because I happened to think that it tasted good.

The argument about teeth is false, or at least equivocal. Humans have molars and our jaws can move from side to side in order to grind. That's not characteristic of a meat eater.


That's because we're omnivores, not carnivores.
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#67
I'm not going to read all the comments, but, speaking as a vegetarian, there's plenty of books out there you can read about the practices of the farms that provide 95% of the meat that's consumed. To put it lightly, it's disgusting. Not so much the treatment of the animals, but the treatment of the meat. I could care less about how they treat the animals. It's more about what happens to my body when I'm consuming meat.

It just doesn't seem like the kind of thing I'd like to put into my body. I'm already killing myself by smoking and drinking, and lack of exercise. It's one extra thing I can do to keep myself a little bit healthier. Yes, it's a hassle trying to find adequate protein for my diet, but I don't think that out-weighs the amount of hassle my body would be going through trying to digest some of the shit that's in the meat sold at supermarkets and restaurants.

Also, I haven't had heartburn or food poisoning (not once) since switching. I used to get heartburn a few times a week (as a 13-year-old).

Also, there's tons and tons of substitutes to make the transition easier, as well as make it less stressful to find something to eat. There's a soy/vegetable version of every meat you can think of (except maybe prosciutto off the top of my head). So family's having burgers tonight? no prob. I got veggie burgers. Having hotdogs? no prob. Tacos? no prob. It's not that difficult.

And to those that argue only eating one thing is unhealthy? Sorry. I'm still eating 4/5 of the food groups. So that's not even really a valid argument.
Last edited by mjones1992 at Apr 19, 2013,
#68
Quote by ohp-kyle

The argument about teeth is false, or at least equivocal. Humans have molars and our jaws can move from side to side in order to grind. That's not characteristic of a meat eater.

That's because we're omnivores.

The teeth argument is rubbish, but not because they have the wrong type of teeth.
#69
A could days ago I had THE BEST steak I've ever had. You fagemetarians don't get to enjoy that. Infact just keep eating your vegetemables, more meat for me then.
#70
Quote by LeakyFlask
Didn't jrcsgtpeppers use to be fairly reasonable? Looking at his avatar I feel like I used to read his posts and quite enjoy them, or at least not cringe from them. Now he's been consistently stoned for months, makes way too many poorly formulated threads about metaphysical matters and seems to be unable to grasp rather simple concepts like supply and demand.

He's like a living, breathing anti-drug campaign.


Yeah he used to be alright, but then he started going crazy. He's like Due 07 v2. Was good to begin with, then went crazy
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#71
Quote by SAB-84
http://paleodietlifestyle.com/vegetarianism-bad-environment/

"most of the animals we eat consume grass, we don’t. We instead can take our energy from the meat that was fed something we can’t eat. By growing crops of corn, wheat or soy where there would normally be grass, we destroy those animal’s natural feeding grounds in larger and larger portions. Those animals often can’t adapt to the ecosystem change and end-up dying. Therefore, eating lots of soy, wheat or corn based products indirectly kills more animals and top soil than eating a Paleo diet with lots of meat."

That is all.


This is so retardeded. Those animals grazing in fields are fed crops that are grown elsewhere, crops that are also used for humans. We are not replacing fields of grass with other crops.
In fact, we would use LESS CROPS if we stopped eating meat and so would SAVE more empty fields that could be turned over to nature.
I'll post this again, here's a source that isn't a BS site with an agenda, but an actual UN study http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2010/jun/02/un-report-meat-free-diet

Vegetarianism is good for the environment. Fact.
EDIT: That site is so bad in many many many ways, that I won't even begin to list as it would turn into an essay.

Quote by VanTheKraut
We are designed by evolution to eat meat. That's why all the vegetarians have to eat tofu, nuts, or take protein supplements because its worse for you to not get any protein and complex amino acid chains. Animals are the only food source that contain all of the amino acids, those that don't eat animals have to play mix and match if they want all the essential (not produced naturally in our bodies) amino acids.

And meat just tastes so damn good.


This is wrong.
Vegetarian diets may be lower in protein, but they DO contain ALL ESSENTIAL amino acids.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Complete_protein
When you body build (which needs more protein then normal), you don't eat meat. You eat milk/eggs (or protein drinks... which are derived from milk).

Vegan diets may lack some if you don't eat a balanced diet (no shit) due to lack of dairy. And even then... it's so rare for someone to only eat ONE food type exclusively. This isn't even an issue tbh.
And a veggie/vegan diet may have lower protein then meat, but still plenty for any person to survive on.

Also, because we are designed to eat meat doesn't mean we have to. We're not designed to fly but we do. Our intelligence > our biology.

Quote by Kozlic
IAnd one more thing VEGETARIANS!!
Can you please not torture your babies/kids with veggies only? It has been proven that kids that don't eat meat don't grow the same as kids that do eat meat.
The human race eats meat since the beginning, we need it. You can say that you get enough proteins from vegetables, but you don't get the same enzymes, some acids or some sort of stuff I can't remember...Until you can grow a steak on a tree, please stop torturing your kids. They need meat at least once a week.


I stopped meat at around 10 years old.
I have never heard of lack of meat affecting child development and I can't think of a reason why that be the case. Any sources?
Also, a veggie diet doesn't lack anything for kids.
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Last edited by Simsimius at Apr 19, 2013,
#72
Quote by Simsimius
This is so retardeded. Those animals grazing in fields are fed crops that are grown elsewhere, crops that are also used for humans. We are not replacing fields of grass with other crops.


Not quite true, most animal feed is created from grains that are unsuitable for human consumption. Of course, human edible grains could be grown in those fields (local soil acidity and stuff aside), but then frankly the destruction of habitats wouldn't drop by a very great degree. In some ways the fact we have to grow different varieties of grain for humans and animals prevents there from being such a big problem with a monoculture.
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#73
I've considered going vegan for the health benefits. Watch the documentary "Forks Over Knives". It gives a lot of good reasons and proof that a whole foods, plant based diet is much better for the human body than eating animal meant and animal byproducts (dairy). I encourage everyone in this thread, no matter what side you're on, to watch that documentary.

I don't think I would ever consider becoming vegan or even vegetarian for the animal rights aspect. While I don't agree with the way that many farm animals are treated, meat is just soooo good. AND CHEESE!
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#74
Just about all the anti-vegetarianism stuff out there is bollocks.

That being said, I still eat meat (because it's really tasty); I think eating meat and other animal products is fine in principle, although currently a lot of farming methods are disgustingly inhumane. Where possible I buy free range or whatever, which might not have as big an impact on the food industry as being vegetarian but it's still better than nothing.
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#75
Quote by Todd Hart
Not quite true, most animal feed is created from grains that are unsuitable for human consumption. Of course, human edible grains could be grown in those fields (local soil acidity and stuff aside), but then frankly the destruction of habitats wouldn't drop by a very great degree. In some ways the fact we have to grow different varieties of grain for humans and animals prevents there from being such a big problem with a monoculture.


Yep that's true, although I always thought it was crops that weren't up to standard to the rest, so it seems that I may be wrong here.
Couldn't, and I believe this is just speculation on my part, we use those grains destined for animals in the production of biofuels instead?

Either way though, vegetarianism won't turn those animal-grazed fields into more crops destined for humans (which is what that post/site was claiming).
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Quote by Doppelgänger
You could always just sleep beside your refrigerator.

Guitar:
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- Fender '72 Deluxe Telecaster
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#76
Gotta love eating green. Here's something tasty all the veggies will love:

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A SIGNATURE.
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#77
Quote by Simsimius
Yep that's true, although I always thought it was crops that weren't up to standard to the rest, so it seems that I may be wrong here.
Couldn't, and I believe this is just speculation on my part, we use those grains destined for animals in the production of biofuels instead?

Either way though, vegetarianism won't turn those animal-grazed fields into more crops destined for humans (which is what that post/site was claiming).


Oh I quite agree, I was just being a pedant.

And actually, that's an interesting idea: if we did away with animals could we use the what would be animal feed for biofuel? I don't know much about biofuel production but I assume some grains are better at it than others, but it would certainly be a good way to kill two birds (metaphorically speaking, no animals would be harmed ).
...Stapling helium to penguins since 1949.
#78
Quote by c3powil
I've considered going vegan for the health benefits. Watch the documentary "Forks Over Knives". It gives a lot of good reasons and proof that a whole foods, plant based diet is much better for the human body than eating animal meant and animal byproducts (dairy). I encourage everyone in this thread, no matter what side you're on, to watch that documentary.

I don't think I would ever consider becoming vegan or even vegetarian for the animal rights aspect. While I don't agree with the way that many farm animals are treated, meat is just soooo good. AND CHEESE!


i agree with you wholeheartedly. sometimes i just feel like having more veggies and no meat for the sake of eating healthier. don't care really care enough about animal rights to change the way things are right now.
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