Page 3 of 4
#82
Quote by MadClownDisease
Which, if your issue is animal welfare, is not a problem.


No, they will buy the burger they were going to buy and I won't buy the burger I would buy.
If 10% are veggie (I don't have any statistics, so for arguments sake I will accept that), then there 10% less animals being killed for meat.

I don't understand if you are trolling here, the fact that a lot of other people do something in no way means you shouldn't avoid it, especially if you are trying to promote vegetarianism.

Youre wrong. 100% of animals are being killed all the time for consunption! If you dont eat a burger some fat ass will eat two. You have no impact on the situation whatsoever. I can be a vefgie all my life and it wont help anyone. Not even myself.
#83
Quote by I.O.T.M
I couldn't give a fuck if other people still eat meat. I think it's wrong, so I don't do it.

Then do soomething proactive about it. I dont like murderers so i wont murder. That isnt gonna do shit to help the problem. Its avoiding the problem.
#84
Quote by jrcsgtpeppers
Youre wrong. 100% of animals are being killed all the time for consunption! If you dont eat a burger some fat ass will eat two. You have no impact on the situation whatsoever. I can be a vefgie all my life and it wont help anyone. Not even myself.


lol. nono. I'll admit you're right that there will always be the same amount of animals being killed for consumption (not including fluctuating numbers because of diseases like mad cow and what-not that ends up killing some of the 'crop' (crop being the animals), or something going wrong in a meat plant and they have to get rid of a bunch of it).

However, you're insinuating that if someone decides to become vegetarian, that every time they DONT eat a burger, some sort of electro-magnetic-magical-voodoo-ass impulse gets sent to a fat person to eat their share. It doesn't. The fact is, in most countries, there's more supply (meat) then there is a demand. That's why we end up throwing away all kinds of food at restaurants and our homes. Food goes bad.

And no, to say that being a veggie couldn't help yourself is a bit silly. There's plenty of health benefits to it. Learn to google for christ' sake.

EDIT:

Then do soomething proactive about it. I dont like murderers so i wont murder. That isnt gonna do shit to help the problem. Its avoiding the problem.


So.... leik.... anything we don't believe in, we have to devote time and energy into fixing? how old are you? Most of us on here are musicians, but we have to work regular jobs to survive financially. Between the two, there's not all kinds of time to find some sort of solution to every single problem the world has. (not to mention I'm sure at least one or two of you have an SO you spend time with, or maybe even have a kid or two (HIGHLY unlikely).

Examples? I don't have time to worry about/change/fix global climate change, the growing feud between allied countries and NK, the growing problem with waste and how it's dealt with, the new CISPA bill, etc. etc.

But hell, if I don't believe that they're right, then I can sure as hell try to live a slightly 'greener' lifestyle (if time and money allows). Not much I can do about NK. I can try and recycle more. I can sign a petition to oppose CISPA.

All little things, and all probably won't do much for these things I don't believe in, but when I'm working 35-40hrs/week while trying to record/write/book shows in my free time? I'd say those aren't really things you should be talking shit about

And same goes for someone choosing not to eat meat because they believe it isn't right. In this day and age, it's more than likely that they don't have TIME to protest farms, write petitions, speak to congressman, or go in Sam Fisher style, armed to the teeth and assassinate every chicken/cow farm owner in the country. It's just not viable.

TL;DR: Life doesn't give us enough time to devote ourselves to every little insignificant problem, and sometimes the best way to tackle a problem is to do your small part, and hope to whatever deity you worship that enough other people are doing the same if not more.
Last edited by mjones1992 at Apr 20, 2013,
#85
omg so much mad in this thread
Quote by SlackerBabbath
My ideal woman would be a grossly overweight woman who would happy go jogging, come home all sweaty and let me put my dick under her armpit while she shuffles a pack of cards.

Stay classy, pit.
#87
huehuehue
Quote by SlackerBabbath
My ideal woman would be a grossly overweight woman who would happy go jogging, come home all sweaty and let me put my dick under her armpit while she shuffles a pack of cards.

Stay classy, pit.
#88
Quote by jrcsgtpeppers
why are you not eating meat? if you cared about the animals you would do something more than just not eat them. you not eating them has absolutely no impact on getting anywhere close to saving a single baby chicken from being sluahgtered for its breasts.

dont say we has veggie thread, im the last 2 posts



As a vegetarian I am getting bored of debating the same exact thing all the time, but I will say that I find this rhetoric extremely annoying. Not just regarding vegetarianism, but any topic. Say you support greater economic equality, and you do vote for people who you think will solve the issue, yet you get people telling you that you aren't allowed to have an opinion on the subject because you aren't out volunteering constantly and giving all of your money away. What's also annoying is the people who do use this rhetoric don't do the same themselves. Surely there's something you have an opinion on but aren't constantly worrying about it and directing all of your time towards? Surely people have school, jobs, other responsibilities that make it impossible to contribute their time towards (as an individual) everything they care about?
#89
Quote by metacarpi
To all those saying that they don't eat meat because of the conditions that the animals are kept in: You're forgetting one important thing.

Cruelty makes meat taste delicious. If I were breeding cattle, I'd belittle them all day long, and hand out suplexes like no tomorrow. They'd be the most tormented and delicious cattle ever to have existed.


I feel like this didn't get enough attention.
ayy lmao
#90
Quote by jrcsgtpeppers
Youre wrong. 100% of animals are being killed all the time for consunption! If you dont eat a burger some fat ass will eat two. You have no impact on the situation whatsoever. I can be a vefgie all my life and it wont help anyone. Not even myself.

Ok I'm guessing you are actually trolling now, i feel bad for actually being sucked into responding properly.
#91
Quote by jrcsgtpeppers
Then do soomething proactive about it. I dont like murderers so i wont murder. That isnt gonna do shit to help the problem. Its avoiding the problem.

What problem exactly? Look, this is the best attitude to have in this situation (which most of this thread on both sides lack.) Is just being able to tolerate what others beliefs are and live your own life how you want... I guess the same can go for religion. But it seems as human beings, we enjoy debating about how others should live their lives.
#92
Quote by jrcsgtpeppers
You have no impact on the situation whatsoever. I can be a vefgie all my life and it wont help anyone. Not even myself.


So you think vegetarians don't eat meat, solely because they have some kind of romantic vision that they can change everything?

Right.

I'm a vegetarian, and as such, know a lot of other people who are. It's a weird sort of magnetism. Neither me or my friends would state that as the only reason why we don't eat meat, because like I said, it's a romantic vision that no one would eat animals anymore, and we'd all get along. The human race doesn't work that way, there will always be conflict.

Sure enough you get activists who tie themselves to a cow, or even vegans, but I bet that if you actually asked vegetarians honestly why they became veggie, they would probably only mention the dream of changing the world if they are a little big headed, thinking that they will be able to change everything by themselves, or as an afterthought.

I personally don't eat meat because of my personal moral disagreement with purchasing and consuming an animal that has been killed for the sole purpose to be eaten. I'll underline that, so you can see it.

I've grown up with animals, and can tell you as a hands down fact, that anyone who tells you 'animals are dumb, they're lower in the food chain than we are' or 'they don't know, they don't have feelings', that you are 100% wrong.

Animals are much more complex than people make them out to be, especially pigs, who are significantly smarter than cats or dogs, but eating pets (at least in the West) is 'wrong' because they're fluffy and cute and called Spot or Felix.

If you're happy to eat a pig or a cow, why not eat a dog or cat? Though, that said, with the recent UK issue with horse meat in burgers, plenty of my meat eating friends were not bothered in the slightest, because horses were just as stupid/tasty/nutritious as cows, so that argument might be a little invalid, seeing as people keep horses as pets.

I understand that I alone won't make any significant change in meat sales, and in all honesty, I don't mind, because I know that there will always be people who argue all day long that humans are meant to eat meat, and stuff themselves with barely meat products like KFC or McDonalds. I couldn't care less about those people.

All I want is for me, personally, not to feel guilty for eating another animal, who probably is just as intelligent as your dog/cat/average human, has feelings, and will be killed in a horribly brutal way, by sadistic people who see living, breathing creatures as walking meals covered in dollar/pound/euro signs.

I also disagree with the way animals are kept in battery farms, but can see the appeal of free range animals to people who don't have the moral imbalance that I have. Although I drink soy milk, I do eat cheese and eggs and butter, so in a way, I contribute to the farming industry, but thats ok, because I'm not purchasing or eating flesh, from an intelligent creature.

Some become veggie for health reasons because y'know, meat in excess is bad for you. It's salty, fatty and most people eat too much of it. The size of a deck of cards is one adult portion, that should be eaten once or twice a day. My uncle is veggie since having a heart attack aged 48, from eating too much meat. His doctor explicitly told him that. Wonder why you're fat? Try eating vegetables, nuts, tofu and wholemeal grains for a week or two, see that it's very beneficial for weight loss and well being. Not preaching here, just stating facts.

Theres lots of reasons why people turn veggie and you are an ignorant idiot if you think that you can try and get people to eat meat again, by whining 'you can't change anything, waah, wahh wahh'. Deep down, most veggies know that. How about you stop going in circles with your arguments, and drop it? People are vegetarian because they want to be. In an age of freedom of speech and expression, there shouldn't need any other reason, and we shouldn't have to explain and defend our life choices to ignorant little shits like you.

Oh yeah, and vegemetarian is the most stupid fucking word in the universe. Stop using it, yeah?

/rant over.
#93
They kill plants. Hypocrites!
ESP Horizon NT-II (Seymour Duncan) + Marshall JVM410C =

No pedals or any of that stuff, just a raw Marshall tone ran by my fingers!
#94
Quote by MadClownDisease
That's ridiculous. It's like saying people shouldn't look for alternative fuels to oil as to compare they need oil.
For a start, you could ask non-vegetarians or ex-meat eaters to compare, neither of which would be consuming more meat than normal. Secondly, the point of these products is to minimise future consumption of meat. A lot of people could accept one wrong to avoid a massive number more future wrongs.


Dude, I was just taking the piss.
#95
Quote by slipknot5678
As a vegetarian I am getting bored of debating the same exact thing all the time, but I will say that I find this rhetoric extremely annoying. Not just regarding vegetarianism, but any topic. Say you support greater economic equality, and you do vote for people who you think will solve the issue, yet you get people telling you that you aren't allowed to have an opinion on the subject because you aren't out volunteering constantly and giving all of your money away. What's also annoying is the people who do use this rhetoric don't do the same themselves. Surely there's something you have an opinion on but aren't constantly worrying about it and directing all of your time towards? Surely people have school, jobs, other responsibilities that make it impossible to contribute their time towards (as an individual) everything they care about?

8 hours of sleep, 8 hours of work, 8 hours to care about things. I was a vegan, then i stopped because i wasnt doing anything about it, i didnt rally, i didnt do shit but support vegan sellers, who probably arent putting much money into helping either. so im in no way shape or form helping the cause by not eating the bi-product of animal slaughter.
#97
Quote by Stud_Muffin
So you think vegetarians don't eat meat, solely because they have some kind of romantic vision that they can change everything?

Right.

I'm a vegetarian, and as such, know a lot of other people who are. It's a weird sort of magnetism. Neither me or my friends would state that as the only reason why we don't eat meat, because like I said, it's a romantic vision that no one would eat animals anymore, and we'd all get along. The human race doesn't work that way, there will always be conflict.

Sure enough you get activists who tie themselves to a cow, or even vegans, but I bet that if you actually asked vegetarians honestly why they became veggie, they would probably only mention the dream of changing the world if they are a little big headed, thinking that they will be able to change everything by themselves, or as an afterthought.

I personally don't eat meat because of my personal moral disagreement with purchasing and consuming an animal that has been killed for the sole purpose to be eaten. I'll underline that, so you can see it.

I've grown up with animals, and can tell you as a hands down fact, that anyone who tells you 'animals are dumb, they're lower in the food chain than we are' or 'they don't know, they don't have feelings', that you are 100% wrong.

Animals are much more complex than people make them out to be, especially pigs, who are significantly smarter than cats or dogs, but eating pets (at least in the West) is 'wrong' because they're fluffy and cute and called Spot or Felix.

If you're happy to eat a pig or a cow, why not eat a dog or cat? Though, that said, with the recent UK issue with horse meat in burgers, plenty of my meat eating friends were not bothered in the slightest, because horses were just as stupid/tasty/nutritious as cows, so that argument might be a little invalid, seeing as people keep horses as pets.

I understand that I alone won't make any significant change in meat sales, and in all honesty, I don't mind, because I know that there will always be people who argue all day long that humans are meant to eat meat, and stuff themselves with barely meat products like KFC or McDonalds. I couldn't care less about those people.

All I want is for me, personally, not to feel guilty for eating another animal, who probably is just as intelligent as your dog/cat/average human, has feelings, and will be killed in a horribly brutal way, by sadistic people who see living, breathing creatures as walking meals covered in dollar/pound/euro signs.

I also disagree with the way animals are kept in battery farms, but can see the appeal of free range animals to people who don't have the moral imbalance that I have. Although I drink soy milk, I do eat cheese and eggs and butter, so in a way, I contribute to the farming industry, but thats ok, because I'm not purchasing or eating flesh, from an intelligent creature.

Some become veggie for health reasons because y'know, meat in excess is bad for you. It's salty, fatty and most people eat too much of it. The size of a deck of cards is one adult portion, that should be eaten once or twice a day. My uncle is veggie since having a heart attack aged 48, from eating too much meat. His doctor explicitly told him that. Wonder why you're fat? Try eating vegetables, nuts, tofu and wholemeal grains for a week or two, see that it's very beneficial for weight loss and well being. Not preaching here, just stating facts.

Theres lots of reasons why people turn veggie and you are an ignorant idiot if you think that you can try and get people to eat meat again, by whining 'you can't change anything, waah, wahh wahh'. Deep down, most veggies know that. How about you stop going in circles with your arguments, and drop it? People are vegetarian because they want to be. In an age of freedom of speech and expression, there shouldn't need any other reason, and we shouldn't have to explain and defend our life choices to ignorant little shits like you.

Oh yeah, and vegemetarian is the most stupid fucking word in the universe. Stop using it, yeah?

/rant over.

you are a moron. i am not trying to convert anyone, at all, whatsoever. youre an ignorant douchebag making assumptions out your asshole. i know every reason out there to be a vegetarian, and theyre all completely fine, but you know what? nobody is doing anything about it, not even peta. everyone is all talk and no show. none of you are contributing to the cause. sure you all get along thats great go do something about it. stop giving your money to vegan resturaunts and shit that arent doing anything about it. youre being marketed too. i bet youve bought a go veggie sticker. i have tons of them. are animals getting even an ounce closer to being not killed by the millions all day erryday? nope, probably never will unless science gives us some way of synthesizing meat.
#98
There are some surprisingly stupid responses in this thread.

And all the normal ones, like "Why are they here then?", "Vegetarians eat their food", "Why are they so tasty" etc, etc.

But seriously, I'm a vegetarian, I just don't like the taste of meat, or the idea of eating something that was living and that. Most vegetarians I know are the same, not that many people do it just because of animal rights and stuff.
#99
Quote by jrcsgtpeppers
you are a moron. i am not trying to convert anyone, at all, whatsoever. youre an ignorant douchebag making assumptions out your asshole. i know every reason out there to be a vegetarian, and theyre all completely fine, but you know what? nobody is doing anything about it, not even peta. everyone is all talk and no show. none of you are contributing to the cause. sure you all get along thats great go do something about it. stop giving your money to vegan resturaunts and shit that arent doing anything about it. youre being marketed too. i bet youve bought a go veggie sticker. i have tons of them. are animals getting even an ounce closer to being not killed by the millions all day erryday? nope, probably never will unless science gives us some way of synthesizing meat.

peppy pls stahp
#100
I don't eat meat because I don't think anyone should eat meat, therefore I don't believe I should eat meat. Surprisingly simple huh?
#101
Quote by SlackerBabbath
Dude, I was just taking the piss.

Sorry bro I retract my reply. Given the type of arguments you can see just in this thread, it's not beyond possibility someone might actually think like that though.
#102
Quote by willT08
So?

Judging by history, Smallpox is a natural part of being human. Do you propose we bring it back because it's natural?


STRAWMAN ALERT!
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#103
jrcsgtpeppers, move on to heroin. You might OD and we'll be spared your shitty threads and mangled logic.
#105
Quote by psyks
That's not a strawman.

Why not? He pushed the argument beyond all logical limits with his analogy while leaving out the fact that smallpox is disease caused by micro-organisms. Said logic can be applied to "Looking at history, getting eaten by lions was a part of being human".
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#107
Quote by Archer250
Said logic can be applied to "Looking at history, getting eaten by lions was a part of being human".

Yes it can. The point was that appeals to nature or history aren't going to give meaningful moral advice; in the same way that naturally smallpox kills people doesn't mean that's fine and that historically humans were eaten by lions (for arguments sake) doesn't meant we can't want to avoid that, that naturally and historically humans have teeth to eat meat doesn't mean that it's automatically fine.
#108
I find it a bit curious how quite often nowadays, on the internet at least, debates about any given topic tends to eventually turn into a debate on whether the previous arguments were fallacies or not. It's a bit meta actually, when sometimes the debates are about the arguments themselves.

Hasn't escalated terribly in this thread, it just sprung to mind.

EDIT: I don't really see the point of a debate about vegetarianism anyways. Alright, if you actually do believe that vegetarianism eventually will do the world a big disfavor, and you're actually concerned about this, then sure, go ahead. And for people who propagate vegetarianism and want others to care about it as much as they do, then again, I can see the point.
But when it just comes to the same old story of "You don't live your life the way I live mine: WTF?!" it just seems so redundant.
REGGIE
Last edited by LeakyFlask at Apr 20, 2013,
#109
Quote by TooktheAtrain
Reductio ad absurdum. Look it up.

This. Step your pretentious-logical-fallacy-pointing-out game up you mug
#110
I think it's worth pointing out that even if will was committing any sort of fallacy, there would still be a problem with what he was replying to, regardless of what form his reply took.
#111
Quote by jrcsgtpeppers
but you have no idea. no matter how many vegemetarians you convert, you will never stop me from serving hundreds of nuggets, mcchickens, and crispy and grilled patties, and pounds over pounds of hamburger meat, every single hour of the day (except3-5am). there is absolutely on impact on the consumption of meat in anywhere, period.

Do you think all vegetarians spend any amount of time trying to "convert" people? I don't care about what you eat. It's a dietary choice that makes me feel better. It always baffles me to see how proud people are of eating meat in these threads.

Inb4 "go eat a staek l0l0l0", I'm not entirely sure what makes that funny.
#112
This is the dumbest ****ing thread of all ****ing time
*-)
Quote by Bob_Sacamano
i kinda wish we all had a penis and vagina instead of buttholes

i mean no offense to buttholes and poop or anything

Rest in Peace, Troy Davis and Trayvon Martin and Jordan Davis and Eric Garner and Mike Brown
#113
Quote by LeakyFlask
I find it a bit curious how quite often nowadays, on the internet at least, debates about any given topic tends to eventually turn into a debate on whether the previous arguments were fallacies or not. It's a bit meta actually, when sometimes the debates are about the arguments themselves.

Hasn't escalated terribly in this thread, it just sprung to mind.

EDIT: I don't really see the point of a debate about vegetarianism anyways. Alright, if you actually do believe that vegetarianism eventually will do the world a big disfavor, and you're actually concerned about this, then sure, go ahead. And for people who propagate vegetarianism and want others to care about it as much as they do, then again, I can see the point.
But when it just comes to the same old story of "You don't live your life the way I live mine: WTF?!" it just seems so redundant.

The thing is, TS wasn't even trying to say that being vegetarian was stupid or wrong, just that it wouldn't have any effect on anything.

Which is just plain not true. Surely even if people think eating meat is fine they can still see that not eating meat does achieve something...
#114
Quote by MadClownDisease
The thing is, TS wasn't even trying to say that being vegetarian was stupid or wrong, just that it wouldn't have any effect on anything.

Which is just plain not true. Surely even if people think eating meat is fine they can still see that not eating meat does achieve something...


until TS decided to attack people who don't devote their lives to as insignificant of an issue as vegetarianism and calling vegetarians morons and whatnot.

Edit: and I also have to say it- PLOT TWIST! TS is actually a vegan
Last edited by mjones1992 at Apr 20, 2013,
#115
Quote by MadClownDisease
The thing is, TS wasn't even trying to say that being vegetarian was stupid or wrong, just that it wouldn't have any effect on anything.

Which is just plain not true. Surely even if people think eating meat is fine they can still see that not eating meat does achieve something...

Indeed, I don't agree with him in any way, shape or form.
REGGIE
#116
I hope the human race will someday adapt well enough to the environment so that we realize we don't have to slaughter inferior animals, level rain forests, and make stupid threads.

You can try to keep yourself from making stupid threads, but it won't matter because for every stupid thread you stop yourself from making, some brain-dead idiot will make two of them. There's nothing you can do to prevent it. So everyone might as well start making stupid threads.
Who are you? The prince of darkness? Don't you have any friends?


#117
Quote by VanTheKraut
We are designed by evolution to eat meat. That's why all the vegetarians have to eat tofu, nuts, or take protein supplements because its worse for you to not get any protein and complex amino acid chains. Animals are the only food source that contain all of the amino acids, those that don't eat animals have to play mix and match if they want all the essential (not produced naturally in our bodies) amino acids.

And meat just tastes so damn good.

Quinoa bro. And protein consumption typically isn't a problem for veges. I think b-12 is a bigger obstacle, and that can be easily fixed by supplements.

And the "IM GONNA EAT 3 ANIMALS FOR EVERY ANIMAL YOU DONT EAT MEAT MEAT MEAT BACON BACON BACON" types are just as bad as the self righteous vegans.
Quote by Waffleexplosion
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Last edited by thefuzz454 at Apr 20, 2013,
#118
I don't eat meat for health reasons. If I hadn't stopped, I'd be like 300 pounds by now, cause I like to eat. I don't care at all for animals, screw them. Except my cat. He's awesome.
For how can I give the King his place of worth above all else
when I spend my time striving to place the crown upon myself?
#119
Quote by psyks
That's not a strawman.


Sure it is. Metacarpi's argument was never that natural is best or supreme. The response posted came from this:

Quote by metacarpi
True, but given the way our teeth have evolved to include incisors, it's pretty clear that meat has been a stpale part of the human diet for 1,000's of years.


Which came from the initial argument that meat eating is still a valid/favorable option because it's the easiest source to receive all of the necessary amino acids.

To which another user replied that we were not evolutionarily engineered to eat meat, but the nutrients meat possesses.

All he was doing was showing how our canines show that we've adapted to eat meat based on the benefits of eating meat.

He didn't ever say that meat was the natural way and therefore it triumphs.

Besides it's rather stupid that his argument based on efficiency and survival received a counterpoint on disease, which does the opposite.

If the user who provided the strawman wanted to point out a flaw in that argument, he should have looked at the appendix, but he clearly didn't think about the retort too much. His example may have addressed the absurdity of what he thought was the initial claim. The problem is that he missed the point altogether.
Quote by EndTheRapture51
Anyway I have technically statutory raped #nice

Quote by EndThecRinge51
once a girl and i promised to never leave each other

since that promise was broken

i dont make promises any more
Last edited by megano28 at Apr 20, 2013,
#120
Quote by TooktheAtrain
Reductio ad absurdum. Look it up.


Ah thanks, I forgot what this was called.

Quote by MadClownDisease
Yes it can. The point was that appeals to nature or history aren't going to give meaningful moral advice; in the same way that naturally smallpox kills people doesn't mean that's fine and that historically humans were eaten by lions (for arguments sake) doesn't meant we can't want to avoid that, that naturally and historically humans have teeth to eat meat doesn't mean that it's automatically fine.


There's something wrong with your worldview. Smallpox is a disease caused by micro-organisms, lions are predatory animals that evolved to eat meat. The incisors are a product of evolution, designed to help in tearing meat (which actually DOES mean that meat has been in our diet for millennia).

Would a vegan bear make sense to you?
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Last edited by Archer250 at Apr 20, 2013,