#1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uJM0A_Wyo8M

So recently I've been trying to remove myself from modern western music and the typical diatonic scales. I stumbled upon the band above. What is the theory that upholds this style of music? It is extremely unique to the genres I generally listen to. Is this by chance modal?

Often I hear people talking about modal scales like they are just major scales starting and ending on another note other than the traditional ionian tonic, which I know is false. I've been trying to find some information on modal music, but it seems as if a lot of people on the internet are incorrectly applying the modes.

This band however really caught my ear. In the past I have strayed away from jazz, but I think my aging ears are changing my opinion on musical tastes.
#2
Good for you. Welcome to the world of real talent and amazing music. If you asked Guthrie, his answer will be something along the lines of, "I don't care, it's just music".

But yes, this is modal, he makes heavy use of quartal stacks in this tune to give a sense of harmonic motion over the static bass.
#3
Guthrie Govan's band. I would consider the band Jazz Rock fusion. Heavily rooted in Jazz.

If you like that type of stuff there are also bands like Tribal Tech, Weather Report, Return to Forever. There is also Miles Davis' records "In A Silent Way" and "Bitch's Brew"

Check out the guitarists Scott Henderson (Tribal Tech), Frank Gambale, Alan Holdsworth, Shawn Lane

The newer guys that I know of include Guthrie Govan, Alex Hutchings, and a couple youtube guys, Tom Quayle and Rick Graham.

There is also modern jazz, and you can check out Kurt Rosenwinkel.

If you want to play this style of music, I suggest starting with traditional jazz. Charlie Parker, Dizzy Gillespie, John Coltrane, Miles Davis, etc
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#5
Quote by RockAddict311
Could any of you recommend a source to learn traditional jazz?


Jazzguitar.be is a good site with free resources.

And modes, as in Phygian, Lydian, etc ARE diatonic. They are modes of the major scale and their scale degrees have the same functions (root, third, fifth, etc.)

Modes are not some mystical, weird scales that are hard to understand. They are the same basic idea as major or minor scales but with slight alterations. In jazz they are used because the altered notes tend to sound better over jazz chord voicings. For instance, Lydian works better over a major 7 chord because the #4 stacks a perfect fourth against the 7th. It doesn't make it any less diatonic. Only symmetrical scales like whole-tone or octatonic are NOT diatonic scales.

Be aware that the "jazz sound" is NOT just a result of modal playing. Concepts like surround tones, chord tone targeting, deflection, swing eighths, and the bebop scale are much more a part of what most people consider a "jazzy" sound. Do not assume that playing John Petrucci lines or whatever but changing your b13's to natural 13's is going to sound like jazz.
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Last edited by SkyValley at Apr 22, 2013,
#7
Quote by SkyValley
Jazzguitar.be is a good site with free resources.

And modes, as in Phygian, Lydian, etc ARE diatonic. They are modes of the major scale and their scale degrees have the same functions (root, third, fifth, etc.)

Modes are not some mystical, weird scales that are hard to understand. They are the same basic idea as major or minor scales but with slight alterations. In jazz they are used because the altered notes tend to sound better over jazz chord voicings. For instance, Lydian works better over a major 7 chord because the #4 stacks a perfect fourth against the 7th. It doesn't make it any less diatonic. Only symmetrical scales like whole-tone or octatonic are NOT diatonic scales.

Be aware that the "jazz sound" is NOT just a result of modal playing. Concepts like surround tones, chord tone targeting, deflection, swing eighths, and the bebop scale are much more a part of what most people consider a "jazzy" sound. Do not assume that playing John Petrucci lines or whatever but changing your b13's to natural 13's is going to sound like jazz.


I am aware they are diatonic. What I simply ment was I wished to move away from the general standard enforced in most western songs today. And I am also aware that simply playing these scales you speak of will not grant me this sound. Could you recommend a book?
Last edited by RockAddict311 at Apr 22, 2013,
#8
It's worth boning up on traditional voice leading (4 part classical stuff) and traditional jazz, as those are the root concepts at play in modern jazz/fusion music.

And if you want to play this stuff, work them chops out!

If you like this you'd probably also like Jazz Pistols and Yellowjackets.
#9
There is a lot of this stuff out there, you just have to know where to look. Anyway, i strongly recommend you to (as already mentioned) check out this stuff AS WELL AS traditional jazz.

On the fusion side i recommend guys like: Guthrie Govan, Greg Howe, Allan Holdsworth, Al Di Meola (He does some latin and jazz stuff aswell), Planet X, Shawn Lane, Tribal Tech, Cosmosquad, Frank Gambale, Jeff lorber, Adam Nitti, David Hines, Ray Riendeau, Brett Garsed, Alex Machacek, Marc Guillermont, Chris Taylor, Gary Husband, One Spirit and Tony MacAlpine!

On the more jazzy side i'd say give these guys a listen: Pat Metheny, Pat Martino, John Coltrane, Lenny Breau, Miles Davis, Charlie Parker, Django Reinhardt, Joe Pass, Wes Montgomery, Jim Hall, Grant Green, Joe Henderson, Bill Evans, Dave Brubeck.

Learning both fusion and traditional jazz is a very good way to get into this kind of playing in my opinion. Cause both are very technically and theoretically demanding to understand.

I can't stress this next point enough though. And maybe some other people here will disagree with me, but in my honest opinion you can't really do advance in this kind of music without your ear. I would say stay away from tabs and notation on this and try to learn as much fusion and jazz you can (that appeals to you of course) only by ear. That is in my opinion the best way to learn this style of music.

I hope i helped in any way, good luck! Cheers!
Fusion and jazz musician, a fan of most music.

Quote by Guthrie Govan
“If you steal from one person it's theft, and if you steal from lots of people it's research”


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"Only play what you hear. If you don't hear anything, don't play anything."