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#1
I have always been a big Tool fan. I really like the guitar tone on 10,000 Days. I'd describe it as very modern, full, and processed. I've read up on Adam rig and it's pretty complicated with multiple amps at once and also realize a big part of it is the player/techniques too. I am sure there was a lot of "studio" magic involved to get his type of sound. What is the best way to produce this type of sound cheaply (from gears a normal working person can afford)?
#2
You won't be able to match it without alot of money.
The recording engineer of that album has stated he only uses sm57s on the cabs
#3
Tune accurately, EQ the mids carefully, and filter out low-end mud and high-end spikes in the cabinet response in post. And you're SOL if you're using cheap gear. Not much else to it.
#4
Thanks for the tips so far. I have an SM-57 (though I read AJ uses 3 per cab in the studio). I am using an Agile LP in Silverburst and this amp (my other amp is a Crate):



It actually has a good crunchy high gain tone for early Tool stuff. Doesnt quite do the more refined Lateralus/10,000 sounds though. It's a bit too "raw." I have considered Line 6 as a possible direction to go.

I am thinking I'll just do multi-layers and start learning my way around the Sonar compression/mastering plug-ins.

I am probably SOL. Ya got to start somewhere though
Last edited by cGoEcYk at Apr 23, 2013,
#5
Quote by cGoEcYk

I am thinking I'll just do multi-layers and start learning my way around the Sonar compression/mastering plug-ins.

Layering too much is overrated in my experience. For starters, unless your playing (or editing) is tighter than a... really tight thing, it's useless anyway. And you know how you can't polish a turd? Layering a turd just gives you several turds (or one bigger turd, depending on how you look at it). Not saying you're starting with a turd, though; it's just a decent analogy. I'd invest more time into learning how to EQ.
#6
Get the amp into the middle of as large a room as possible.

Get the amp up off the floor.

Put your ear up to the amp and play so that, when you put the mic in front of the amp, you know what the mic is actually hearing. Do this, if nothing else.

Experiment a lot with mic placement. It can make a huge difference - even a few inches.

CT
Could I get some more talent in the monitors, please?

I know it sounds crazy, but try to learn to inhale your voice. www.thebelcantotechnique.com

Chris is the king of relating music things to other objects in real life.
#7
Quote by axemanchris
Put your ear up to the amp
CT

You're an idiot. Just sayin'.
#8
Amplitube all the amp sims are free to demo/preview ( for 48 hours I think ? ) load up 3 or 4 versions of the same plugin on different track ( or the same ) and test what amps sound good in the mix. you may find that sound for $40 or less. PLUS you can try adding any of the other free amp sims to the mix.

at the moment I'm abit of a fan of a 5150 Revalver + Carvin legacy 3 in amplitube + Guitar rig Rammfire all 3 make a pretty good tone combined.

I don't think you will get "tool tone" with your current gear. (cool you have the same mic
But Unless "mic placement" means inside the Tool rehearsal room, Best to try the Virtual options.

You could try outboard using a Line x3 or above using the parallel chains.
but line 6 still costs more then plugins and you have the give and take with line 6
X3 you have more amps and less headroom VS HD you have more headroom less amps..
I went with X3.
#9
Quote by roaraudio
You're an idiot. Just sayin'.

^Calls arguably the most knowledgeable member of this forum an idiot
#10
Quote by chatterbox272
^Calls arguably the most knowledgeable member of this forum an idiot


joke ?

( edit ,. sorry saw your sign

an expert in music that plays punk ? is that a Oxymoron ?
Last edited by T4D at Apr 24, 2013,
#11
Quote by chatterbox272
^Calls arguably the most knowledgeable member of this forum an idiot

An arrogant idiot?
I'm not questioning your complete knowledge base, i have read and agree with many things you've stated in this forum. but your advice to put an ear next to a guitar amp. Not the smartest.
#12
Quote by roaraudio
An arrogant idiot?
I'm not questioning your complete knowledge base, i have read and agree with many things you've stated in this forum. but your advice to put an ear next to a guitar amp. Not the smartest.

The point of this exercise is so one can hear the subtle differences in tone as the ear/mic moves around the speaker/cab. I would have thought it'd go without saying that this is done at a safe volume level; alas, this is done at a safe volume.
Let's party.
#14
Quote by roaraudio
An arrogant idiot?


No arrogance there at all. He wasn't referring to himself.

Yes, it does kinda go without saying that you do so at a safe volume level.

The alternative is to set up the amp in another room, as close to sound-proof as possible, throw a mic at it, and have a partner keep moving the mic around at your direction while you monitor how the sound changes back in the control room. This is how it is done in pro studios.

Since most of us don't have this kind of setup, we need to find another way of hearing what the mic is hearing. If you don't know what the mic is hearing, anything you do is going to be guesswork. It has to be realized that the amp sounds very different when you are standing in front of it with the speaker blasting at your knees than it does actually getting down right in front of it.

CT
Could I get some more talent in the monitors, please?

I know it sounds crazy, but try to learn to inhale your voice. www.thebelcantotechnique.com

Chris is the king of relating music things to other objects in real life.
#15
Quote by T4D

an expert in music that plays punk ? is that a Oxymoron ?


Rick Ruben anyone?



CT
Could I get some more talent in the monitors, please?

I know it sounds crazy, but try to learn to inhale your voice. www.thebelcantotechnique.com

Chris is the king of relating music things to other objects in real life.
#16
Quote by roaraudio
You're an idiot. Just sayin'.


When you've come up with as much useful info, then you can start making these claims. I don't think I've heard one useful bit of information come out of your mouth since you joined the board.


Just sayin'
All I want is for everyone to go to hell...
...It's the last place I was seen before I lost myself



Quote by DisarmGoliath
You can be the deputy llamma of the recordings forum!
#17
Oh, speaking of idiots not giving useful info, this thread (among several others) has made me question why I'm even giving recording advice in the first place, when there's a whole forum of people who not only know more than I do, but have experience with things other than running a guitar through an interface/amp sim/cab sim and programming the drums.
I stand by what I've said so far, though.
#18
It's good to get multiple perspectives.

But those perspectives shouldn't be based on insults, constructive discussion and genial disagreements help everyone.
All I want is for everyone to go to hell...
...It's the last place I was seen before I lost myself



Quote by DisarmGoliath
You can be the deputy llamma of the recordings forum!
Last edited by ChemicalFire at Apr 24, 2013,
#19
Quote by ChemicalFire
It's good to get multiple perspectives.

But those perspectives shouldn't be based on insults, constructive discussion and genial disagreements help everyone.

I wasn't being sarcastic, or trying to jump into this argument. I really do mean that most people here are more knowledgeable than me, so why bother?
#20
Cuz else you're just being defeatist ^_^
All I want is for everyone to go to hell...
...It's the last place I was seen before I lost myself



Quote by DisarmGoliath
You can be the deputy llamma of the recordings forum!
#21
Quote by Cavalcade
I wasn't being sarcastic, or trying to jump into this argument. I really do mean that most people here are more knowledgeable than me, so why bother?


Because engaging in discussion is more important in one's learning than simply listening (or in this case, reading) a discussion.

And if you're wrong about something, that discussion will happen. Around here, it will usually be constructive and supportive rather than.... not.

Quote by ChemicalFire
When you've come up with as much useful info, then you can start making these claims.


Meh, maybe. But then again, people just won't want to listen to you because you're a d!ck. Not "you" individually, but "you" as the generic person who gets on here and starts calling people names.


CT
Could I get some more talent in the monitors, please?

I know it sounds crazy, but try to learn to inhale your voice. www.thebelcantotechnique.com

Chris is the king of relating music things to other objects in real life.
Last edited by axemanchris at Apr 24, 2013,
#22
I hope you weren't calling me a dick
All I want is for everyone to go to hell...
...It's the last place I was seen before I lost myself



Quote by DisarmGoliath
You can be the deputy llamma of the recordings forum!
#23
Edited. ^^

CT
Could I get some more talent in the monitors, please?

I know it sounds crazy, but try to learn to inhale your voice. www.thebelcantotechnique.com

Chris is the king of relating music things to other objects in real life.
#24
I suppose TS could try experimenting with an amp sims and cab sim setup that simulates what CT was saying and has an Impulse that resembles a SM57 in a decent-sized room.

The free amp sims might do it with a lot of tweaking. I wouldn't know. I generally try to avoid sounding like "X band", because I really don't think it's worth the effort. I'd rather get a good tone that satisfies me and sounds like something I would enjoy (if I were the listener).
#25
Quote by Cavalcade
Oh, speaking of idiots not giving useful info, this thread (among several others) has made me question why I'm even giving recording advice in the first place, when there's a whole forum of people who not only know more than I do, but have experience with things other than running a guitar through an interface/amp sim/cab sim and programming the drums.
I stand by what I've said so far, though.


Was this sarcasm? Because I've seen nothing but good advice from you and the other regulars...

Maybe you don't have experience micing full orchestras or something like that but that doesn't mean you're any less knowledgeable in what you do know, which to be fair has helped plenty of people on this forum.
Last edited by dannycasevnx at Apr 24, 2013,
#26
+1 - Seen a lot of good advice from him.
Could I get some more talent in the monitors, please?

I know it sounds crazy, but try to learn to inhale your voice. www.thebelcantotechnique.com

Chris is the king of relating music things to other objects in real life.
#27
Aw man, I wish I hadn't opened this thread

Anyway, let's not resort to name-calling please, it is obvious that if you want to put your ears next to an amplifier you will either keep the volume down or wear ear plugs and headphones. I would have posted extensively here but there's been a huge accident outside my apartment and have obviously been distracted
Hey, look. Sigs are back.
#28
Everyones "advice" on this board is "Get a scarlet 2i2 go to the sticky". No matter the question. I see it every day.
I don't write comments intending them to be face value, there supposed to direct you in the right place.
#29
Quote by roaraudio
Everyones "advice" on this board is "Get a scarlet 2i2 go to the sticky". No matter the question. I see it every day.


Well that's wrong for a start :P

And the stickies actually answer most of the questions asked on this board.
All I want is for everyone to go to hell...
...It's the last place I was seen before I lost myself



Quote by DisarmGoliath
You can be the deputy llamma of the recordings forum!
Last edited by ChemicalFire at Apr 24, 2013,
#30
Quote by roaraudio
Everyones "advice" on this board is "Get a scarlet 2i2 go to the sticky". No matter the question. I see it every day.
I don't write comments intending them to be face value, there supposed to direct you in the right place.

You should read the stickies better...
#32
Ya'll are funny. I just wanted to know how to get a "processed" kind of sound. I researched a little and AxeFX seems pretty popular but I may settle for semi-high end Line 6 when I get the cash. Compressor for gain tone in the meantime.

As for mic placement... I try out different placements and track a little and listen back, no need to blow out my ears (if I was using a 4x12 I would use my actual ears to find out which speaker of the 4 sounds best) with the angry G12T-100 tone of my vintage Randall. I tried about about 10+ close placements last time I was recording and found my go-to spot on this speaker.
#33
Quote by cGoEcYk
Ya'll are funny. I just wanted to know how to get a "processed" kind of sound. I researched a little and AxeFX seems pretty popular but I may settle for semi-high end Line 6 when I get the cash. Compressor for gain tone in the meantime.

As for mic placement... I try out different placements and track a little and listen back, no need to blow out my ears (if I was using a 4x12 I would use my actual ears to find out which speaker of the 4 sounds best) with the angry G12T-100 tone of my vintage Randall. I tried about about 10+ close placements last time I was recording and found my go-to spot on this speaker.



Tool won't of used an AxeFX, AxeFX is the goto djent amp. It's that kinda sound.

The track and play back thing works too, just a little bit less streamlined.

Quote by T4D
so your the "Rick Ruben" of these forums ?

have you read any interviews about Rick's production style ?


I'm pretty sure your question was "Is there any musical experts in the punk world?" Not are those said experts on these forums. You wanted proof that they existed. Nothing more.

You're just clasping at straws again to try and seem intelligent, keep your stroy straight. You're fooling no one and are just managing to make yourself look like even more of a fuqing idiot than we already think you are xD


And if you've not heard of Rick Ruben, it makes your quip about being in 2013 and playing old music hella ironic. He's one of the most famous metal producers of the last 15 years.
All I want is for everyone to go to hell...
...It's the last place I was seen before I lost myself



Quote by DisarmGoliath
You can be the deputy llamma of the recordings forum!
Last edited by ChemicalFire at Apr 25, 2013,
#34
Quote by ChemicalFire

I'm pretty sure your question was "Is there any musical experts in the punk world?" Not are those said experts on these forums. You wanted proof that they existed. Nothing more.

You're just clasping at straws again to try and seem intelligent, keep your stroy straight. You're fooling no one and are just managing to make yourself look like even more of a fuqing idiot than we already think you are xD


And if you've not heard of Rick Ruben, it makes your quip about being in 2013 and playing old music hella ironic. He's one of the most famous metal producers of the last 15 years.


clasping at straws ?? keep your story straight ?? You're fooling no one ??

get over yourself dude the original statement was "an expert in music that plays punk ? is that a Oxymoron ?" I really thought that was easily seen and a light heart JOKE.

but here we are flames all over and the other side of the fire here is because one of the cool kids said "Put your ear up to the amp and play" flesh advice I must say,...I BUT I didn't comment on that,.... Just the even funnier comment of "Calls arguably the most knowledgeable member of this forum an idiot" that statement sounds just alittle "pretentious"? but no ChemicalFire backup that guy he's Cool.

this is a internet forum dude is this really your life ? relax no one is keeping score.
Last edited by T4D at Apr 25, 2013,
#35
T4D. Please. Just stop. You have contributed nothing to this thread other than your antagonistic "jokes", if you can even call them that. The reason we treat you like a troll is because you act like one. Stop acting like a dickhead, and we might take you seriously.
Last edited by Cavalcade at Apr 25, 2013,
#36
Quote by T4D
clasping at straws ?? keep your story straight ?? You're fooling no one ??

get over yourself dude the original statement was "an expert in music that plays punk ? is that a Oxymoron ?" I really thought that was easily seen and a light heart JOKE.

but here we are flames all over and the other side of the fire here is because one of the cool kids said "Put your ear up to the amp and play" flesh advice I must say,...I BUT I didn't comment on that,.... Just the even funnier comment of "Calls arguably the most knowledgeable member of this forum an idiot" that statement sounds just alittle "pretentious"? but no ChemicalFire backup that guy he's Cool.

this is a internet forum dude is this really your life ? relax no one is keeping score.



Seriously, until you stop being a dickhead, go away. You may be able to get away with that in other forums, but people are trying to learn and/or be helpful here. We're not trying to sit here and be sarcastic and half-funny. Go away.
#37
Quote by Cavalcade
T4D. Please. Just stop. You have contributed nothing to this thread other than your antagonistic "jokes", if you can even call them that. The reason we treat you like a troll is because you act like one. Stop acting like a dickhead, and we might take you seriously.


sorry dude read the thread again i think i was one of the only ones to contributed any real opinion if you missed it POST 8 is Here

The rest is blow hards and flames..

please before you talking about Trolls flames or anything here, RE-read the thread and count the negative comments and the direction... then post.
Last edited by T4D at Apr 25, 2013,
#38
Quote by T4D
sorry dude read the thread again i think i was one of the only ones to contributed any real opinion if you missed it POST 8 is Here

The rest is blow hards and flames..

please before you talking about Trolls flames or anything here, RE-read the thread and count the negative comments and the direction... then post.

This is exactly why you piss people off.

You seem to think your opinions are facts, making eveyone else's opinion wrong. All opinions are valid, it's just the way you choose to express your opinions that piss people off.

If you were to post these same opinions, back them up with feasible evidence to justify your position and stop putting everyone else down because they have a different opinion to you, people may stop hating you and start respecting you. Given your history, it'll take time, but it will happen.

We don't respect people because they tell us they're better than we are, we respect people who have earned it. The guys you're arguing with have proven themselves by providing good advice over a long period of time. You seem to go out of your way to alienate yourself further with every post you make.
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#39
again re-read the thread, how many real subject related posts were made ?

I did not disagree with any recorded related opinions, A total of 5 posts

but there are now 38 posts in total & I didn't make them all ?
#40
Quote by T4D

get over yourself dude the original statement was "an expert in music that plays punk ? is that a Oxymoron ?" I really thought that was easily seen and a light heart JOKE.


You don't have a History of making "light hearted jokes" but you DO have a history of putting everyone else down and inferring your own superiority. Whether you do it consciously or not.

Quote by T4D

Just the even funnier comment of "Calls arguably the most knowledgeable member of this forum an idiot" that statement sounds just alittle "pretentious"? but no ChemicalFire backup that guy he's Cool.


If he was talking about himself it would of been egotistical or narcissistic... not pretentious. He was stating an opinion based heavily on fact based on the advice that specific user has given many people over the years. We have proof that he knows his shit.

And you're right, no one IS keeping score, which is why no one else comes out with arrogant bs when people ask for help to make them selves look "cool".
All I want is for everyone to go to hell...
...It's the last place I was seen before I lost myself



Quote by DisarmGoliath
You can be the deputy llamma of the recordings forum!
Last edited by ChemicalFire at Apr 25, 2013,
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