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#1
I'd love to buy all the music I have, but that means I wouldn't be able to afford merch or going to see bands live...so bands and artists can pick their poison, would they rather sell more recrds, or more t-shirts and tickets for shows?

A band can still be a band even if no one is buying their records, but if no one turns up to the live shows, the band is ended. You see the decline an an artist by the size of venues they play decreasing.

A CD/vinyl is a luxury item that stands on it's own. A concert can double as a social event, and if you budget you can count it as a music event and as a social event. Same with a t shirt, you're supporting your artist and also getting a piece of clothing. For a lot of us we have to budget and can't afford absolutely every piece of music we listen to, but merch/shows can double up as something else on the spreadsheet.

Although occasionally, I will treat myself to an album, especially if it's a pre-order of a band I love, or a "Special Edition" with premium packaging and a bonus DVD or something.

longing rusted furnace daybreak seventeen benign nine homecoming one freight car
Last edited by EndTheRapture51 at Apr 30, 2013,
#2
WTF?!? If bands don't sell CDs etc, they don't have fans to play concerts to.

You may think you're trying to start up an interesting debate, but in reality all you've done is made people think you illegally download music and are trying to use this as justification.
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#3
Quote by GaryBillington
WTF?!? If bands don't sell CDs etc, they don't have fans to play concerts to.


Well there's a couple of bands I've seen live in either headline or support slots, but I don't own any of their records, so that argument is wrong.

longing rusted furnace daybreak seventeen benign nine homecoming one freight car
#4
Quote by EndTheRapture51

A band can still be a band even if no one is buying their records, but if no one turns up to the live shows, the band is ended.

Who do you think is booking bands that can't sell a CD?
#5
Self organised tours.

You know some bands get full UK tours without ever releasing their album officially over here right?

longing rusted furnace daybreak seventeen benign nine homecoming one freight car
Last edited by EndTheRapture51 at Apr 30, 2013,
#6
Quote by EndTheRapture51
Self organised tours.

You know some bands get full UK tours without ever releasing their album officially over here right?

....that nobody will go to because they've never heard of a band that hasn't released anything.

Speaking as someone from the UK, all the bands that I see doing successful tours have a product to sell. Those that don't are simply playing pubs for pocket change. Doing this all around the country does not make it a successful tour.

Now stop stealing illegal downloads and go out and buy a CD.
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Last edited by GaryBillington at Apr 30, 2013,
#7
Yeah, you need to make sure you're not trying to justify piracy. I have a huge music collection that I have built over years (I'm 33 and have been buying cds for 20 years). I actually stopped for a long time and just recently started buying again. When I stopped, cds were around $20 US. I go into my local store now, Best Buy in the states most times, and I have seen exactly zero cds over $11. It may seem expensive, but there's a lot of other things you can choose to not buy. I know smokes are almost $10 a pack here, or stop eating out so much. You can find the money.
I stared making it a point to pick up new music a couple times a month at least. I recently got new Stone Sour, a Slipknot album I missed the first time, and I wanted a couple Stevie Ray Vauhgan songs so I went to find a CD. I found a CD for less than $5 that had those songs, plus a couple more I didn't know I wanted.
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#8
art isn't a commodity
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#9
Here's the thing. If you can afford $50 or whatever (probably less, really) to go a concert once a month, then you can most certainly afford to save up $10-15 to buy a CD. If you're financially strapped in reality, then get Spotify or Last.fm. This whole "I can go to concerts, but I can't afford CDs" excuse that I hear all the time simply means that you're too lazy to handle your money properly and therefore justify your piracy by saying "I'm still supporting the band".
#10
TS steals cars.
You who build these altars now

To sacrifice these children
You must not do it anymore
#11
I have a pressed CD, it's 10 bucks, I'd much rather sale those because I get the money instantly, while on merch I have to accumulate 50 dollars to get a check. My shirt/posters don't sell well at all, so it'd take forever to see money from them.

While going through a label, I have no idea which is better, it depends, and on what clothing/disc printing company.

I own 100+ CDs myself, can rarely afford concerts, or have one I actually want to bother with close enough. I can't play live shows, can't afford that either.
Last edited by stratkat at Apr 30, 2013,
#12
Quote by korinaflyingv
On the come up we were listening to Grateful Dead and the music started passing through my bowel and out my arsehole as this violet stream of light. I shat music. It was beautiful.
#14
What kind of shows are you going to that cost $50?

Most of the shows I go to are £10-£15 affairs which is the average cost of a night out in the UK, and occasionally like once a year I'll go see a big band like Muse lvie which will set me back £50.

longing rusted furnace daybreak seventeen benign nine homecoming one freight car
#15
Quote by EndTheRapture51
What kind of shows are you going to that cost $50?

Most of the shows I go to are £10-£15 affairs which is the average cost of a night out in the UK, and occasionally like once a year I'll go see a big band like Muse lvie which will set me back £50.

You missed the point. The amount wasn't the point. The point was, you're clearly capable of saving up money for shows. Manage your finances, and I'd bet you could buy albums AND go to shows.
#16
A lot of artists I listen to have multiple albums out yet haven't made any cds and still play shows every weekend.
#17
you guys are aware that it's possible to legally download songs, right? It's still much less expensive than buying cds
#18
I'm going to a music fest this weekend, and I spent $40 on vinyl the other day.

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#20
Quote by flexiblemile
you guys are aware that it's possible to legally download songs, right? It's still much less expensive than buying cds

Not really. There's normally only a $1-$3 difference between buying the MP3 album and the CD. Hell, sometimes getting the CD is cheaper..... http://www.amazon.com/Habitual-Levitations-Intronaut/dp/B00B671SW0/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1367348354&sr=8-1&keywords=intronaut+habitual+levitations
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#21
Sounds like nobody here is listening to small/independent bands.


A lot of bands I listen to are putting their music out there for free on sites like Bandcamp, and yet they have no problem getting people to come to shows. Yeah, they aren't filling stadiums, but they're having just as much fun.
#22
Quote by crazysam23_Atax
You missed the point. The amount wasn't the point. The point was, you're clearly capable of saving up money for shows. Manage your finances, and I'd bet you could buy albums AND go to shows.


Maybe, but I'd be buying CDs which would get ripped to my ipod then sitting on a shelf for the rest of time, whilst the bands I like would be selling less tickets to show. Better to support a band where they can see it - at a show.

longing rusted furnace daybreak seventeen benign nine homecoming one freight car
#23
Quote by muffinduck01
Not really. There's normally only a $1-$3 difference between buying the MP3 album and the CD. Hell, sometimes getting the CD is cheaper..... http://www.amazon.com/Habitual-Levitations-Intronaut/dp/B00B671SW0/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1367348354&sr=8-1&keywords=intronaut+habitual+levitations


And mp3 albums have shit quality. Anyone who says otherwise is deaf. And that's coming from someone who is deaf in one ear.
#25
Quote by EndTheRapture51
Maybe, but I'd be buying CDs which would get ripped to my ipod then sitting on a shelf for the rest of time, whilst the bands I like would be selling less tickets to show. Better to support a band where they can see it - at a show.

No, they wouldn't. If you did it right, you could afford both. That's the whole point. The two aren't mutually exclusive.

Quote by daytripper75
Sounds like nobody here is listening to small/independent bands.


A lot of bands I listen to are putting their music out there for free on sites like Bandcamp, and yet they have no problem getting people to come to shows. Yeah, they aren't filling stadiums, but they're having just as much fun.

I figured I'd let someone who had the time to go shows mention this.

But 75% of the music I've picked up was on bandcamp, for either free or for less than $10.
Last edited by crazysam23_Atax at Apr 30, 2013,
#26
Quote by crazysam23_Atax
No, they wouldn't. If you did it right, you could afford both. That's the whole point. The two aren't mutually exclusive.


Well tell me how to manage my finances so I can easily afford both then?

Say I go to 1 show a month costing £15 total, how am I going to fit that in my budget to buy CDs?

longing rusted furnace daybreak seventeen benign nine homecoming one freight car
#28
Quote by EndTheRapture51
Well tell me how to manage my finances so I can easily afford both then?

Say I go to 1 show a month costing £15 total, how am I going to fit that in my budget to buy CDs?

Are there any other things you could cut out of your budget? For instance, suppose you bought coffee every day at the local store, and it cost $2 for a coffee. If you went on bandcamp/amazon/whatever music sales service and found the cost of one of your favorites band's album, then you simply NOT drink coffee for a few days. Suppose it cost $10 to buy an album you wanted, then for 5 days you don't buy the coffee.

Budgeting and saving up for things isn't hard. Seriously. I'm a student, and I still manage to either get my music for free on bandcamp or buy it. But you have to prioritize things.
Last edited by crazysam23_Atax at Apr 30, 2013,
#29
Buying CD's or buying/downloading through sites such as bandcamp like daytripper mentioned lets bands know where the majority fan base is, merch is often sold through a middleman (retailers and wholesalers usually) not directly from the band. Basically if you bitch and moan that band x isn't coming to your town its because the band/label has no idea that you exist.

edit:
Also not everybody buys merch, a large majority of people dont want a band t-shirt.
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#30
Quote by crazysam23_Atax
Are there any other things you could cut out of your budget? For instance, suppose you bought coffee every day at the local store, and it cost $2 for a coffee. If you went on bandcamp/amazon/whatever music sales service and found the cost of one of your favorites band's album, then you simply NOT drink coffee for a few days. Suppose it cost $10 to buy an album you wanted, then for 5 days you don't buy the coffee.

Budgeting and saving up for things isn't hard. Seriously. I'm a student, and I still manage to either get my music for free on bandcamp or buy it. But you have to prioritize things.


Coffee's a great example. People are willing to pay £3-£5 for a takeout coffee from Starbucks or whatever a few times a week. £3-£5 for, what, ten minutes of brown poopwater that took someone 3 minutes to make? But when it comes to music, something which can be enjoyed over and over and over, and is the product of months and years of work, for about a tenner, they balk. It's insane.
#31
Quote by daytripper75
Sounds like nobody here is listening to small/independent bands.


A lot of bands I listen to are putting their music out there for free on sites like Bandcamp, and yet they have no problem getting people to come to shows. Yeah, they aren't filling stadiums, but they're having just as much fun.

This.

Quote by crazysam23_Atax
I figured I'd let someone who had the time to go shows mention this.

Here's the thing. If you can spare a few hours to go out and buy and album and then go home and listen to it, then you can most certainly afford to spend a couple of hours at a show. If you're strapped for time in reality, spend less time on guitar forums. This whole "I can afford CDs, but I can't go to shows" excuse that I hear all the time simply means that you're too lazy to leave the house and therefore justify your laziness by saying "I don't have time".


#32
Quote by Deliriumbassist
Coffee's a great example. People are willing to pay £3-£5 for a takeout coffee from Starbucks or whatever a few times a week. £3-£5 for, what, ten minutes of brown poopwater that took someone 3 minutes to make? But when it comes to music, something which can be enjoyed over and over and over, and is the product of months and years of work, for about a tenner, they balk. It's insane.

Fast food's another good one. People spend somewhere between $5 to $10 for fast food, but they could save tons by just making a sandwich at home. Anyway, they'll spend all this cash on fast food, but they can't spend $10 on an album. What?
Last edited by crazysam23_Atax at Apr 30, 2013,
#33
Quote by Gerard_xD
This.


Here's the thing. If you can spare a few hours to go out and buy and album and then go home and listen to it, then you can most certainly afford to spend a couple of hours at a show. If you're strapped for time in reality, spend less time on guitar forums. This whole "I can afford CDs, but I can't go to shows" excuse that I hear all the time simply means that you're too lazy to leave the house and therefore justify your laziness by saying "I don't have time".


I don't get to watch as many bands as I'd like. This is because my city has a distinct lack of venues. I need to get a train to the next city. It's difficult for me to get days off work, which is what I'd need because I don't actually live in my local city, so I need to travel in to get to the train station to travel to the next city. That train journey varies between an hour to closer to two hours. Then there's limited trains back, and none after gigs finish. I'd be able to stay over in a hotel, but that involves getting another day off, and paying for a hotel room.

I'm sure you'll agree that in that situation, it isn't laziness concerning leaving the house that's the issue there.
#34
Quote by Gerard_xD
This.


Here's the thing. If you can spare a few hours to go out and buy and album


It takes me 15 mins brah
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#35
Quote by crazysam23_Atax
Are there any other things you could cut out of your budget? For instance, suppose you bought coffee every day at the local store, and it cost $2 for a coffee. If you went on bandcamp/amazon/whatever music sales service and found the cost of one of your favorites band's album, then you simply NOT drink coffee for a few days. Suppose it cost $10 to buy an album you wanted, then for 5 days you don't buy the coffee.

Budgeting and saving up for things isn't hard. Seriously. I'm a student, and I still manage to either get my music for free on bandcamp or buy it. But you have to prioritize things.



I'm a student too. Most of my money goes on rent and bills. After that it's food. Once every other month I'll visit my family back home on the train. Big chunks of money from Birthdays/Christmas/Dividends go into my savings to save up for a car for more job flexibility after uni.

I don't buy sandwiches/drunks when I'm out, it's a waste of money. I spend my leisure money on either the cinema or a videogame or a DVD. If one of my favourite bands has an album coming out I'll buy that.

Otherwise...no I will download it. For example I like Paramore a bit, but not enough to spend money on their new album. So I'll download it, same with bands like Mastodon, Dream Theater, You Me At Six, Zebrahead. However if I see something like Trivium's new album, special edition for £7 on Amazon I'll snap it up.

I am willing to part with some of my money to buy albums, but not all of it. Let's be honest here, is your ENTIRE music library made up for stuff you've obtained legally?

And some albumss are simply just stupidly rare or overpriced so you have to download illegally, especially if they're not on iTunes or Bandcamp.

longing rusted furnace daybreak seventeen benign nine homecoming one freight car
Last edited by EndTheRapture51 at Apr 30, 2013,
#36
Quote by Deliriumbassist
I don't get to watch as many bands as I'd like. This is because my city has a distinct lack of venues. I need to get a train to the next city. It's difficult for me to get days off work, which is what I'd need because I don't actually live in my local city, so I need to travel in to get to the train station to travel to the next city. That train journey varies between an hour to closer to two hours. Then there's limited trains back, and none after gigs finish. I'd be able to stay over in a hotel, but that involves getting another day off, and paying for a hotel room.

I'm sure you'll agree that in that situation, it isn't laziness concerning leaving the house that's the issue there.

I don't actually think any of what I said was true, I was just quoting crazysam23_Atax's post and changing the variables.

What you're saying is basically the point I was trying to make. There's too many variables to be covered by one post on the internet. If TS says he can only afford to go to a show, that doesn't necessarily mean that he's too lazy to manage his finances.

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Last edited by Gerard_xD at Apr 30, 2013,
#37
Quote by Gerard_xD
I don't actually think any of what I said was true, I was just quoting crazysam23_Atax's post and changing the variables.

What you're saying is basically the point I was trying to make. There's too many variables to be covered by one post on the internet. If TS says he can only afford to go to a show, that doesn't necessarily mean that he's too lazy to manage his finances.


Yep and it's a less simple situation than just "You don't buy a bands CD, you are an evil scumbag".

longing rusted furnace daybreak seventeen benign nine homecoming one freight car
#38
Quote by EndTheRapture51
I'm a student too. Most of my money goes on rent and bills. After that it's food. Once every other month I'll visit my family back home on the train. Big chunks of money from Birthdays/Christmas/Dividends go into my savings to save up for a car for more job flexibility after uni.

Ok. Fair points.

I don't buy sandwiches/drunks when I'm out, it's a waste of money. I spend my leisure money on either the cinema or a videogame or a DVD. If one of my favourite bands has an album coming out I'll buy that.

Otherwise...no I will download it. For example I like Paramore a bit, but not enough to spend money on their new album. So I'll download it, same with bands like Mastodon, Dream Theater, You Me At Six, Zebrahead. However if I see something like Trivium's new album, special edition for £7 on Amazon I'll snap it up.

If you didn't buy DVDs at full price, you would have more money to pay for an album. Chances are, you also get that same DVD for much cheaper in 6 months anyway.

I am willing to part with some of my money to buy albums, but not all of it. Let's be honest here, is your ENTIRE music library made up for stuff you've obtained legally?

Yes, actually. Granted, a bunch of it was obtained on bandcamp by choosing to pay nothing. A lot of bands will offer albums for free basically on bandcamp. (You should check out the "Free on Bandcamp" thread here in the Pit, btw.) I also can listen to the band before I decide to download it, so I know if I'll like it or not.

And some albumss are simply just stupidly rare or overpriced so you have to download illegally, especially if they're not on iTunes or Bandcamp.

Ok, that's different. I'm NOT ok with it, but I don't blame anyone for downloading illegally any albums that are rare or out of print or from Japan or Europe or whatever.

Quote by EndTheRapture51
Yep and it's a less simple situation than just "You don't buy a bands CD, you are an evil scumbag".

I'm not calling you an evil scumbag, nor am I saying it's simple. But it is doable, and it's not as hard as people think. Yes, it does require budgeting for things, but that's how life works.
Last edited by crazysam23_Atax at Apr 30, 2013,
#39
Quote by crazysam23_Atax
Ok. Fair points.


If you didn't buy DVDs at full price, you would have more money to pay for an album. Chances are, you also get that same DVD for much cheaper in 6 months anyway.


Who said anything about buying at full price? I buy DVDs only when they're about £5 or under on Amazon, and games when they're on sale on Steam or under £7 anywhere else.


Yes, actually. Granted, a bunch of it was obtained on bandcamp by choosing to pay nothing. A lot of bands will offer albums for free basically on bandcamp. (You should check out the "Free on Bandcamp" thread here in the Pit, btw.) I also can listen to the band before I decide to download it, so I know if I'll like it or not.


I like to download my music to my iPod because I do a lot of listening when I'm walking to and from places, so I can't exactly stream full albums on Spotify. Often I'll download an album, keep it on my iPod for ages and then pick up a physical copy 6 or 12 months or even longer down the line especially if I've enjoyed it and I can get an edition with a few extras. This is the case with Paramore.


I'm not calling you an evil scumbag, nor am I saying it's simple. But it is doable, and it's not as hard as people think. Yes, it does require budgeting for things, but that's how life works.


Well there's a lot of budgeting to do and I've also got to budget for my gaming hobby, and my guitar hobby eg. buying strings. I simply can't buy EVERY album for EVERY band I like otherwise I'd be thousands of pounds out of pocket.

longing rusted furnace daybreak seventeen benign nine homecoming one freight car
#40
Quote by EndTheRapture51
I'm a student too. Most of my money goes on rent and bills. After that it's food. Once every other month I'll visit my family back home on the train. Big chunks of money from Birthdays/Christmas/Dividends go into my savings to save up for a car for more job flexibility after uni.

I don't buy sandwiches/drunks when I'm out, it's a waste of money. I spend my leisure money on either the cinema or a videogame or a DVD. If one of my favourite bands has an album coming out I'll buy that.

Otherwise...no I will download it. For example I like Paramore a bit, but not enough to spend money on their new album. So I'll download it, same with bands like Mastodon, Dream Theater, You Me At Six, Zebrahead. However if I see something like Trivium's new album, special edition for £7 on Amazon I'll snap it up.

I am willing to part with some of my money to buy albums, but not all of it. Let's be honest here, is your ENTIRE music library made up for stuff you've obtained legally?

And some albumss are simply just stupidly rare or overpriced so you have to download illegally, especially if they're not on iTunes or Bandcamp.

If you'd included this info in your original post, you wouldn't have made yourself sound like a pirate. Well, not quite so much anyway - be careful though, there are rules about discussing piracy round here. I suspect a lot of people have a similar attitude though.

However, my ENTIRE music library is 100% legal - I always buy CDs (got almost 1,000 of them so far ), then rip the ones I want to put on my mp3 player. It's better quality, I've got the original artwork etc and also have a hard copy to play in the car and also as backup. OK, the majority of my CDs (and DVDs for that matter) are purchased used, I only buy new either during sales or for my favourite bands.
Gibson LP Traditional, LP GT, LP Studio, SG Standard x2
Barber Tone Press > EHX Worm >TC Polytune > EXH Glove > EHX East River Drive > Zoom G3 > TC Spark Mini Booster
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.
My SoundCloud
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