#1
So, has anyone had the chance to see a 4K TV yet? They will be what HD is to SD in the next 5-10 years.

Currently they run at $20,000-30,000 a piece, but that will come down.

There is approx 4x the amount of pixels as compared to 1080P

Issues:
they require so much data that i read a while back that the average high-speed internet is too slow to stream
Blu-ray doesnt hold enough data to hold an average movie
the average movie is ~100gb of data

comparison


although the difference is huge, you have to be either close to the screen, or have a massive tv for it to really make any difference to your eyes.



thoughts?
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#4
I can't imagine this being the norm for at least 10 years. Too many things have to change for it to work.
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#5
Quote by Bob_Sacamano
I can't imagine this being the norm for at least 10 years. Too many things have to change for it to work.

The same was said about HD when it was introduced
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#7
Isn't there 8K TV's being made by Sharp?
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#8
It will be cool, but like you said, won't be practical for a few years.

I haven't seen one in person but I hear they look incredible. Especially when you get around the 70 inch range
#9
Quote by Bob_Sacamano
I can't imagine this being the norm for at least 10 years. Too many things have to change for it to work.

What like? HDMI is more than capable to pass 4k streams. Everything would be the same?

I'd love to see one, I wouldn't like to pay for one on the other hand.
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#10
Quote by JimmyBanks6
The same was said about HD when it was introduced

Wasn't it introduced sometime in the 90s? It probably didn't become the norm in households until about 5 years ago. We have the technology for this to be possible but I don't see it being common at all for a long time. If my basic understanding of this stuff is correct I think it might require new cables all over the place from phone companies to get that kind of bandwidth to each household. It'd also require a new physical format beyond blu-ray (according to the OP) and I don't see those getting dumped anytime soon, unless we're totally getting rid of discs or physical media (also unlikely to be soon imo.) Another thing is it'll probably take forever to get them into the range most Americans can afford and simultaneously find it worthy of that price.

All of those things have to happen at the same time, too.
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#11
Quote by Bob_Sacamano
Wasn't it introduced sometime in the 90s? It probably didn't become the norm in households until about 5 years ago. We have the technology for this to be possible but I don't see it being common at all for a long time. If my basic understanding of this stuff is correct I think it might require new cables all over the place from phone companies to get that kind of bandwidth to each household.

Unlimited bandwidth plans are becoming more common,
not to mention Google is working hard to get 1gb/s speeds at affordable prices.

It'd also require a new physical format beyond blu-ray (according to the OP) and I don't see those getting dumped anytime soon, unless we're totally getting rid of discs or physical media (also unlikely to be soon imo.)

Why is this unlikely? the most popular computers ship without disc drives any longer (macs), the last time i used a CD was at minimum over a year ago.
Flash drives would be my guess of the future, except for the issue that USB is too slow for this amount of data.

Another thing is it'll probably take forever to get them into the range most Americans can afford and simultaneously find it worthy of that price.

All of those things have to happen at the same time, too.

HD tv's were tens of thousands of dollars when they were first coming into the consumer space as well...
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#13
the 1st picture is such a joke and is used just for marketing. you think you will be able to see more? NO it will just look better
#14
Quote by JonnyH
What like? HDMI is more than capable to pass 4k streams. Everything would be the same?

I'd love to see one, I wouldn't like to pay for one on the other hand.

Mainly, there isn't any form of physical media that could hold a 4k movie for any sort of reasonable price or size, and the entirety of the internet is far too slow to support streaming.

Yeah, we already have devices that can output in 4k, that's the easy part. It's the displaying, storage, and streaming of the movies that will take some time.
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#15
Quote by blinkdragonid
the 1st picture is such a joke and is used just for marketing. you think you will be able to see more? NO it will just look better

um, duh....
#16
Quote by blinkdragonid
the 1st picture is such a joke and is used just for marketing.
not really
you think you will be able to see more? NO it will just look better

depends.
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#17
Regarding all the stuff that goes along with the TVs

HD TVs were exactly the same

People had them in their houses long before Blu Rays were popular at all

Not to mention that up until probably 4-5 years ago only the biggest TV stations actually streamed in HD. The TVs were affordable long before everything else caught up. These will probably be similar
#18
I can't wait until TVs reach their level of quality singularity with our quality of vision, where the quality of tv is equal to that of 20/20 vision and you any better quality would be imperceptible by someone with even perfect vision.
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#19
Based on that chart, there isn't even a noticeable difference from a normal viewing distance unless you have at least an 80 inch screen. This can't possibly be useful for a household; especially considering the price increase.

Like mentioned before, they can make an 8k. Why not a 32k? It's just not practical.
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#20
does this mean frame rates go up? maybe I'm being somewhat ridiculous, but when I watch something filmed in 30 fps, it really ****s with my eyes.... same goes for those new 'super-HD' TVs. It's ok for me to watch something like the news on it, but when I watch a show it really screws with me for some reason. Makes it almost hard to watch

I.E. The new Hobbit Movie, or any Soap Opera if, god forbid, I walk in on my mom watching dat shit.
#21
Quote by mjones1992
does this mean frame rates go up? maybe I'm being somewhat ridiculous, but when I watch something filmed in 30 fps, it really ****s with my eyes.... same goes for those new 'super-HD' TVs. It's ok for me to watch something like the news on it, but when I watch a show it really screws with me for some reason. Makes it almost hard to watch

I.E. The new Hobbit Movie, or any Soap Opera if, god forbid, I walk in on my mom watching dat shit.

no, this is the amount of pixels, has nothing to do with the frame rates, frame rates is 100% up to the director filming and the camera tech, and high frame rates can be lowered.
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#22
Quote by JimmyBanks6
Unlimited bandwidth plans are becoming more common,
not to mention Google is working hard to get 1gb/s speeds at affordable prices.


Why is this unlikely? the most popular computers ship without disc drives any longer (macs), the last time i used a CD was at minimum over a year ago.
Flash drives would be my guess of the future, except for the issue that USB is too slow for this amount of data.

HD tv's were tens of thousands of dollars when they were first coming into the consumer space as well...

Good points. I'm still thinking this won't be for a while though.
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#23
Quote by JimmyBanks6
no, this is the amount of pixels, has nothing to do with the frame rates, frame rates is 100% up to the director filming and the camera tech, and high frame rates can be lowered.


Ah. makes sense. I seriously can't stand that 30fps shit.

Still I don't really like that "window to a different world" effect. maybe it's all the acid I did in college, but it freaks me out for some reason. I guess I'll have to get used to it, or I'll be some bat-shit-crazy mofo when I get older that has a phobia of televisions and thinks that they're the work of some satanic scientist...

Have you seen that new technology where you put some projector thing on your coffee table and it makes the "screen" of a videogame the whole room w/3d effects. (like if you're playing a game with snow the snow comes from your ceiling and sits on your floor)? I would NOT do well with that shit.
Last edited by mjones1992 at May 1, 2013,
#24
Quote by muffinduck01
Mainly, there isn't any form of physical media that could hold a 4k movie for any sort of reasonable price or size, and the entirety of the internet is far too slow to support streaming.

Yeah, we already have devices that can output in 4k, that's the easy part. It's the displaying, storage, and streaming of the movies that will take some time.

Bluray has advanced astronomically since its first commercial release in the PS3. It can hold 4k movies nowadays.
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Last edited by JonnyH at May 2, 2013,
#25
I've seen 4k at trade shows, and when shown with 4k material, they really are something special. It'll be 50" onwards that makes a real difference (depending on viewing distance), and I probably would only get a 4k tv when the price drops and my current tv goes kaput. Projector though, that's where the difference will really be.
#27
Quote by mjones1992
Ah. makes sense. I seriously can't stand that 30fps shit.

Still I don't really like that "window to a different world" effect. maybe it's all the acid I did in college, but it freaks me out for some reason. I guess I'll have to get used to it, or I'll be some bat-shit-crazy mofo when I get older that has a phobia of televisions and thinks that they're the work of some satanic scientist...

Have you seen that new technology where you put some projector thing on your coffee table and it makes the "screen" of a videogame the whole room w/3d effects. (like if you're playing a game with snow the snow comes from your ceiling and sits on your floor)? I would NOT do well with that shit.



I think you mean 60fps man, film has been 24fps since practically forever and newer HD stuff is 60fps or higher. The Hobbit was run at 48fps.

As for the storage issues, my wife works for a movie distribution house and they send out 4k movies (and high frame rate movies) on 1 terabyte hard drives if that tells you anything.
#28
I haven't seen The Hobbit, but I get confused why people would be bothered by a greater frame rate. Aren't you used to seeing infinite fps IRL?

Wouldn't less fps be more jarring?
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#29
4k Streaming is already possible, though faster speeds will be required to stream it. Mine is 14-15 megabits/s and it doesn't load it fast enough.

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#30
Quote by JimmyBanks6
The same was said about HD when it was introduced

Difference is that were running out of the materials to produce these types of hardware. I don't think it will cost much less than what OP stated in 5-10 or ever.
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#31
Good, Jerry Jones could use an excuse to spend more money. No point in having a 72'x160' TV if it's not the highest definition available.
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#32
Never seen a 4k TV, but I'm using a 27 inch 2560x1440 monitor and I sit about 2 feet away from it. Even at that screen size you absolutely do notice the jump in resolution, especially in content like games that can actually output at that high of a resolution natively.

I was looking at some of the Sharp 80 inch 1080p sets, and honestly they look horrible because that's waaay too large of a screen size for 1080p. I don't think that 4k will really be worth the cost for TV sets smaller than 47-50 inches, but above that it should really help.
#33
Quote by snipelfritz
I haven't seen The Hobbit, but I get confused why people would be bothered by a greater frame rate. Aren't you used to seeing infinite fps IRL?

Wouldn't less fps be more jarring?


You'd think, but our brains have been conditioned to see higher frame rates in movies as "cheaper" because tv uses 50 (PAL) or 60 (NTSC) fps.

Movies look like movies because they run at 24fps. Running them higher can make them look like cheap sitcoms.
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#34
Quote by JimmyBanks6


Issues:
they require so much data that i read a while back that the average high-speed internet is too slow to stream
Blu-ray doesnt hold enough data to hold an average movie
the average movie is ~100gb of data

comparison


thoughts?


I've only seen a 4k screen at this posh cinema I go to sometimes, but that is obviously stretched out to the point where the effect isn't noticeable.

- people said the same about 1080p and it's getting increasingly common to get a connection that can stream 1080 now.

- people said the same about blu-ray. I remember something about holographic discs a while ago as a next step. that's if people will bother with physical media anymore.

- getting a few tbs isn't currently a problem unless you have a laptop.


I would love a 4k at home some day, seeing as I can notice the res on my 1080 laptop & TV. At 4k, you won't even notice pixels anymore I'd presume.
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#35
Eventually we'll be able to see skin cells reproducing when watching live-action TV.
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#36
1. You don't need bigger TV's to notice the difference. The pixel density will increase, which will make a lot of difference. In the same manner that smarthphone screens started to look way better over the past few years without a big increase in size.

2. In loads of countries the bandwith is perfectly up to scratch. And with services like netflix, and new consoles maybe supporting. It will have an added value.


All of this was already said when HD TVs came out, and now if you were to replace an HD tv with an old CRT bigass 480p tv in someones home, they would miss it.
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#38
Quote by JonnyH
Bluray has advanced astronomically since its first commercial release in the PS3. It can hold 4k movies nowadays.

Yes, but cost is still a huge issue. Blank BD-R XL discs are selling for $50 per disc. That cost is still way too high for most people to even think about using. Couple that with the fact that most Blu-Ray players out on the market right now can't even read these discs and you have a big cost problem that no one wants to swallow.
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