#1
I've found units such as the Universal Audio 2-610 and SM Pro Audio TC02, but these seem to be labeled as mic preamps. Would they work well for a guitar signal going straight in?

The search is in the spirit of rack unit space consolidation, for a hypothetical dual amp setup (the easy alternative being just getting two separate preamps).

EDIT: Or half rack sized preamps would work just as well (as long as they were not taller than 2U).
Spin 'round carousel when your horse isn't screwed in.

My band:
Fractured Instinct
(For fans of Death/Groove/Prog Metal)

Ibanez RGA42E
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Peavey Predator USA
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Last edited by Offworld92 at May 7, 2013,
#2
Stick a Triaxis in there.
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#3
Engl 530 1U
Engl 570 2U
Marshall JMP-1
Mesa Ractifier pre
2002 PRS CE22
2013 G&L ASAT Deluxe
2009 Epiphone G-400 (SH-4)
Marshall JCM2000 DSL100
Krank 1980 Jr 20watt
Krank Rev 4x12 (eminence V12)
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Morley Bad Horsie 2
MXR Smart Gate
#4
Clarification: I'm not looking for a unit with multiple channels, but a unit that has multiple, separated inputs.
Spin 'round carousel when your horse isn't screwed in.

My band:
Fractured Instinct
(For fans of Death/Groove/Prog Metal)

Ibanez RGA42E
Ibanez S420
LTD H-301
Ibanez RG520
Peavey Predator USA
Douglas Grendel 725
Line 6 Pod HD500X
#5
And on a note stabbing at the issue:

Is there more to guitar-specific preamp shaping than EQ? Guitar amps are inherently different than flat PAs or bass amps. If I were to run a guitar into a flat preamp (like a recording interface), could I shape the signal with a powerful EQ (at least 15 bands) to get a good (good here meaning sounding like a guitar preamp should sound) tone (assuming the signal will then go into a tube poweramp)?

Because just for instance, it would be way easier for me to use something like this in a rack and run it through a dual channe rackl EQ into a tube poweramp, instead of trying to find what I'm trying to find out if it exists or not, which would be something like two Fender Deluxe (arbitrary clean amp) preamps crammed into a single 2U rack unit.

http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/TPSII/
Spin 'round carousel when your horse isn't screwed in.

My band:
Fractured Instinct
(For fans of Death/Groove/Prog Metal)

Ibanez RGA42E
Ibanez S420
LTD H-301
Ibanez RG520
Peavey Predator USA
Douglas Grendel 725
Line 6 Pod HD500X
Last edited by Offworld92 at May 7, 2013,
#6
Mesa made a Mark series rack preamp that is probably the closest you'll get.

You could look into the POD HD500/X3 they alow you to run 2 amps at the same time. I don't know if this is what your looking for, but something to consider.
2002 PRS CE22
2013 G&L ASAT Deluxe
2009 Epiphone G-400 (SH-4)
Marshall JCM2000 DSL100
Krank 1980 Jr 20watt
Krank Rev 4x12 (eminence V12)
GFS Greenie/Digitech Bad Monkey
Morley Bad Horsie 2
MXR Smart Gate
#7
Those UA modules are pretty damn good. I can't see why it wouldn't work fine.

How I always did it running multiple guitars into the same rack so I didn't have to swap cables was to use the inputs on the back of my Korg DT1 Pro tuner, then take its mix out into the first unit in the rack (in my case a GP-8). It worked pretty damn well. No control over levels but quite functional nonetheless.
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Cathbard Amplification
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Last edited by Cathbard at May 7, 2013,
#8
Quote by Offworld92
And on a note stabbing at the issue:

Is there more to guitar-specific preamp shaping than EQ? Guitar amps are inherently different than flat PAs or bass amps. If I were to run a guitar into a flat preamp (like a recording interface), could I shape the signal with a powerful EQ (at least 15 bands) to get a good (good here meaning sounding like a guitar preamp should sound) tone (assuming the signal will then go into a tube poweramp)?

Because just for instance, it would be way easier for me to use something like this in a rack and run it through a dual channe rackl EQ into a tube poweramp, instead of trying to find what I'm trying to find out if it exists or not, which would be something like two Fender Deluxe (arbitrary clean amp) preamps crammed into a single 2U rack unit.

http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/TPSII/


I would not bother with a 15 band EQ. Get a 3 or 4 band Parametric EQ, and put it before or after the amp. You will have more control with a good parametric than a graphic EQ.

I would put it after the preamp, otherwise you run the risk of losing the impedance interaction of the preamp and guitar.

If you have the money, get two triaxis preamps! two of them make 2U altogether, haha!
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#9
^ On that note, I'm stupid, it just occurred to me that I could use two 1U preamps, instead of trying to find this thing that doesn't really exist.

I could just get two Peavey Rockmasters, for instance.

Anyone know of any other good 1U tube guitar preamps with good clean channels? Only gonna run into them clean, planning to use dirt pedals.

Problem solved, I guess.
Spin 'round carousel when your horse isn't screwed in.

My band:
Fractured Instinct
(For fans of Death/Groove/Prog Metal)

Ibanez RGA42E
Ibanez S420
LTD H-301
Ibanez RG520
Peavey Predator USA
Douglas Grendel 725
Line 6 Pod HD500X
#10
Quote by Offworld92
^ On that note, I'm stupid, it just occurred to me that I could use two 1U preamps, instead of trying to find this thing that doesn't really exist.

I could just get two Peavey Rockmasters, for instance.

Anyone know of any other good 1U tube guitar preamps with good clean channels? Only gonna run into them clean, planning to use dirt pedals.

Problem solved, I guess.


I've always like my E530. Inexpensive too. What's your budget?

Also, why do you need two?
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Last edited by Reincaster at May 7, 2013,
#11
No budget, just planning. As cheap as possible I guess, haha.

Is the E530 1U? I thought it was 2U.

It has to be two, because I'm planning a complicated single guitarist, dual amp setup. I will use an ABY through both amps at once to create the same sound as if there were two guitarists. Separate signal paths will let me use a looper to keep the rhythm going through it's own dedicated amp, while I can play lead through the other amp by switching the ABY to just that one. The looper would be after the ABY, so the amp it's going into wouldn't know that I'm not actually playing into it at the moment.

I want to keep the preamps clean, so I can run all FX and everything on the ground, so it doesn't get insane/unmanagable with cables running into the FX loops of two amps. Hence my thought of using dirt pedals. I'm thinking of using a Amptweaker Tightmetal for one, and a Wampler Triple Wreck for the other. I haven't done any real research though. This is all still conceptual.

I want to use two stereo cabs, and have each signal going to each cab, for maximum sound dispersal awesomeness. My poweramp contenders are the Carvin TS100 and the Peavey Classic 50/50. They'll both let me run the independent signals and keep them separated, or let me bridge them in mono if I just want to use one cab.
Spin 'round carousel when your horse isn't screwed in.

My band:
Fractured Instinct
(For fans of Death/Groove/Prog Metal)

Ibanez RGA42E
Ibanez S420
LTD H-301
Ibanez RG520
Peavey Predator USA
Douglas Grendel 725
Line 6 Pod HD500X
Last edited by Offworld92 at May 7, 2013,
#12
Or you could just employ a second guitarist.
Gilchrist custom
Yamaha SBG500
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Randall RM100 & RM20
Marshall JTM45 clone
Marshall JCM900 4102 (modded)
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Fender 5F1 Champ clone
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Marshall 1960A
Boss GT-100


Cathbard Amplification
My band
#13
Yeah, but the point is to keep the band as minimal as possible. This is for a project I'm conceptualizing, it's like industrial/death metal. I would love to keep it as a 2 piece, if possible. Me on guitar & vocals, and someone else running midi controllers for sampling & running bass & drum tracks. I may get a live bassist, but I know the drums for sure I want to keep artificial.

I think I'm going for a sort of more modern NIN Downward Spiral, combined with Meshuggah type thing. Definitely want to keep the whole setup unorthodox from the standard band setup.

And I want to get an 8 string for it. Probably an Ibanez RGA8.

But this is all very early planning. Acquiring the funds for all this is something I haven't figured out yet.
Spin 'round carousel when your horse isn't screwed in.

My band:
Fractured Instinct
(For fans of Death/Groove/Prog Metal)

Ibanez RGA42E
Ibanez S420
LTD H-301
Ibanez RG520
Peavey Predator USA
Douglas Grendel 725
Line 6 Pod HD500X
Last edited by Offworld92 at May 7, 2013,
#14
We were going to keep it to a simple 3 piece but we picked up a rhythm guitarist in our search for a singer. I gotta say, it's made my job a ****ing lot easier. Gigs pay pretty well around these parts (around $1k give or take) so I'll still get a decent wage - but I'll have to work less to get it.
Gilchrist custom
Yamaha SBG500
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Randall RM100 & RM20
Marshall JTM45 clone
Marshall JCM900 4102 (modded)
Marshall 18W clone
Fender 5F1 Champ clone
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Marshall 1960A
Boss GT-100


Cathbard Amplification
My band
#15
It's not about the money, it's about not having to deal with people. Where I live, it would be nigh impossible to find someone to play 8 string industrial metal. My band has been searching for a bassist for months, and we don't even play weird music (groove/death). I just live in a shitty area for music in general. The scene is completely dominated by hardcore, and then indie. Both genres I'm not remotely interested in.
Spin 'round carousel when your horse isn't screwed in.

My band:
Fractured Instinct
(For fans of Death/Groove/Prog Metal)

Ibanez RGA42E
Ibanez S420
LTD H-301
Ibanez RG520
Peavey Predator USA
Douglas Grendel 725
Line 6 Pod HD500X
#16
If you want a dirt cheap pair of clean preamps, then get a pair of Tech 21 Character pedals. Run that into a tube power amp, and it definitely sounds wonderful. I run a marginal pedalboard into a Tech 21 california, using a Box of Rock as my dirt, then into a Mesa 50:50, and people think it's my Fractal and Mark IV.

Run a stereo delay before the two dirt pedals and set the delay real short, makes rhythm sounds similar to two guitarists playing. Similar to Dweezil's setup
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#17
Thanks, I'll keep it in mind. Do any of them get into the ballpark of a Mesa Lonestar? Or a Fender Deluxe Reverb?

Or rather, which one has the balance between cleanness (I don't like any grit in my cleans), and sterileness (I hate amps like the JC120 and the Fender Twin because they're too bright, chimy & sterile). I'm all about that middle ground. Clean, but dark & lively.
Spin 'round carousel when your horse isn't screwed in.

My band:
Fractured Instinct
(For fans of Death/Groove/Prog Metal)

Ibanez RGA42E
Ibanez S420
LTD H-301
Ibanez RG520
Peavey Predator USA
Douglas Grendel 725
Line 6 Pod HD500X
Last edited by Offworld92 at May 7, 2013,
#18
We are back to Triaxix again aint we? Go rob a bank.
Gilchrist custom
Yamaha SBG500
Telecasters
Randall RM100 & RM20
Marshall JTM45 clone
Marshall JCM900 4102 (modded)
Marshall 18W clone
Fender 5F1 Champ clone
Atomic Amplifire
Marshall 1960A
Boss GT-100


Cathbard Amplification
My band
#19
Lol there is absolutely no way I'm going to rock a pair of Triaxises for what amounts to a side project.
Spin 'round carousel when your horse isn't screwed in.

My band:
Fractured Instinct
(For fans of Death/Groove/Prog Metal)

Ibanez RGA42E
Ibanez S420
LTD H-301
Ibanez RG520
Peavey Predator USA
Douglas Grendel 725
Line 6 Pod HD500X
#20
Quote by Offworld92
Thanks, I'll keep it in mind. Do any of them get into the ballpark of a Mesa Lonestar? Or a Fender Deluxe Reverb?

Or rather, which one has the balance between cleanness (I don't like any grit in my cleans), and sterileness (I hate amps like the JC120 and the Fender Twin because they're too bright, chimy & sterile). I'm all about that middle ground. Clean, but dark & lively.



The california is a Mark II clone, IIRC, the blonde is a great lonestar/Deluxe sounding pedal.

But seriously. Just get a triaxis, lol.
Peavey 5150
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Fender Custom Shop Tonemaster
Roland Microcube

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#21
Offworld, this idea of yours is crazy

I am a bit confused though, why can't you just use a preamp for your dirt sounds? I know you were cutting down on clutter, but surely it would be just as messy for the two preamps plus pedal as it would be for two preamps plus a signal switcher?

I think I missed something somewhere...
I'm just a kickin' and a gougin' in the mud and the blood and the beer.
#22
Be forthcoming with a block diagram.
Gilchrist custom
Yamaha SBG500
Telecasters
Randall RM100 & RM20
Marshall JTM45 clone
Marshall JCM900 4102 (modded)
Marshall 18W clone
Fender 5F1 Champ clone
Atomic Amplifire
Marshall 1960A
Boss GT-100


Cathbard Amplification
My band
#23
Quote by DeathByDestroyr
See, it's important that people clarify when they say "metal", because I pretty much always assume they are a Cannibal Corpse fanboi.
#24



Something like that. I got lazy at the end so I just threw in two M9s. I don't know what FX I'll want/need yet, so I'm not sure if I want to go analogue or digital yet.

This way all the messy cable work is consolidated on the board, there's only the two cables going to the rack, and the one going to the board from the guitar.
Spin 'round carousel when your horse isn't screwed in.

My band:
Fractured Instinct
(For fans of Death/Groove/Prog Metal)

Ibanez RGA42E
Ibanez S420
LTD H-301
Ibanez RG520
Peavey Predator USA
Douglas Grendel 725
Line 6 Pod HD500X
Last edited by Offworld92 at May 8, 2013,
#25
If you have an M9 doesn't that make at least the clean preamp redundant?
Gilchrist custom
Yamaha SBG500
Telecasters
Randall RM100 & RM20
Marshall JTM45 clone
Marshall JCM900 4102 (modded)
Marshall 18W clone
Fender 5F1 Champ clone
Atomic Amplifire
Marshall 1960A
Boss GT-100


Cathbard Amplification
My band
#26
I don't think so? It's strictly an FX unit, doesn't take the place of any preamp, right?
Spin 'round carousel when your horse isn't screwed in.

My band:
Fractured Instinct
(For fans of Death/Groove/Prog Metal)

Ibanez RGA42E
Ibanez S420
LTD H-301
Ibanez RG520
Peavey Predator USA
Douglas Grendel 725
Line 6 Pod HD500X
#27
Why not? It will pump out line level won't it?
Gilchrist custom
Yamaha SBG500
Telecasters
Randall RM100 & RM20
Marshall JTM45 clone
Marshall JCM900 4102 (modded)
Marshall 18W clone
Fender 5F1 Champ clone
Atomic Amplifire
Marshall 1960A
Boss GT-100


Cathbard Amplification
My band
#28
Sure, but I don't want to just run all of my FX into a poweramp. Wouldn't that sound bad?
Spin 'round carousel when your horse isn't screwed in.

My band:
Fractured Instinct
(For fans of Death/Groove/Prog Metal)

Ibanez RGA42E
Ibanez S420
LTD H-301
Ibanez RG520
Peavey Predator USA
Douglas Grendel 725
Line 6 Pod HD500X
#29
Quote by Cathbard
Why not? It will pump out line level won't it?


I don't think so. It's an effects only pedal, I believe it operates at instrument level. I could be wrong though.
Peavey 5150
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#30
Were that true you wouldn't be able to run it in the loop.


I wouldn't rely on it for your dirt but it will probably sound fine for your cleans. Try it, you've got access to a power amp.
Gilchrist custom
Yamaha SBG500
Telecasters
Randall RM100 & RM20
Marshall JTM45 clone
Marshall JCM900 4102 (modded)
Marshall 18W clone
Fender 5F1 Champ clone
Atomic Amplifire
Marshall 1960A
Boss GT-100


Cathbard Amplification
My band
Last edited by Cathbard at May 8, 2013,
#31
Quote by Offworld92
Sure, but I don't want to just run all of my FX into a poweramp. Wouldn't that sound bad?


Why not? Don't make the mistake of thinking a preamp does anything super special to the signal (other than bringing it to actual line level). Ever heard a direct, distorted tone from the amp or preamp? Doesn't matter if it's a pedal, SS, or tube, high gain is a buzzy mess. I learned that years ago when I tried to plug an ME50 straight into the PA. The ME50 manual even says to plug it into the effects return (power amp) of another amp.

The SPEAKERS make your guitar amp sound like a guitar amp! The frequency rolloff is what smooths it out and makes it sound like a guitar amp. Obviously a guitar centric preamp would have more control, but you can use a distortion/drive pedal into power amp if you want, provided you get it to line level. However, if you shut off the drive pedal, your cleans will be super quiet if you don't bring that to line level as well.
Peavey 5150
Mesa Mark IV
Mesa Single Rectifier (Series 1)
Fender Custom Shop Tonemaster
Roland Microcube

-Whitebox OS 1x12
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Digidesign Eleven RackAxe Fx Ultra
Last edited by Reincaster at May 8, 2013,
#32
Quote by Cathbard
Were that true you wouldn't be able to run it in the loop.


I wouldn't rely on it for your dirt but it will probably sound fine for your cleans. Try it, you've got access to a power amp.


Not sure about this. I mean, you can use a dd6 in front or in the loop of an amp, but there is no volume control. Its possible that the m5 can handle line level or instrument level, but I'm not sure if there's an option to set it to line level or not. Let me check my m5.
Peavey 5150
Mesa Mark IV
Mesa Single Rectifier (Series 1)
Fender Custom Shop Tonemaster
Roland Microcube

-Whitebox OS 1x12
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Digidesign Eleven RackAxe Fx Ultra
#33
The M9 has a volume control. I'd be surprised if it can't raise the level enough to drive a power amp. It'd be pretty easy to test. Plug it into a power amp and see what it does.
Gilchrist custom
Yamaha SBG500
Telecasters
Randall RM100 & RM20
Marshall JTM45 clone
Marshall JCM900 4102 (modded)
Marshall 18W clone
Fender 5F1 Champ clone
Atomic Amplifire
Marshall 1960A
Boss GT-100


Cathbard Amplification
My band