#1
I see that Fender has reissues of the '65 Super Reverb. In another thread someone said that the "soft" yet overdriven sound that SRV and others got was from using these amps. As I understand it, they could be driven to high volume without clipping as modern amps do.

Anyway, I'm wondering if the reissues that Fender has now are the same as the ones from the 60's and 70's, or if they've been reworked with solid state circuitry and other things that take away what makes the originals desirable.

Thanks for any replies.
#2
They aren't point to point wired and I believe some of the components have been updated with newer "supposedly" more reliable versions. However at the end of the day it is still a PCB based amp which some people don't like as they can be a little more unreliable and harder to repair then their PTP cousins. As far as the amp goes I am fairly certain it is an all valve signal path.

EDIT: They are still an awesome amp regardless!
Last edited by ibanart300 at May 7, 2013,
#3
The circuitry should still be the same, with updated components of course.
"If you're looking for me,
you better check under the sea,
because that's where you'll find me..."
#4
Thanks for the replies. What I wonder is whether they sound the same, especially when the tubes are really pushed with a Tube Screamer or such to get the sound that SRV, Keith Richards and others had.

I see a lot of original 1965-1970's Super Reverbs for $1000+ on Craigslist, but see the new ones, too.
#5
They sound pretty much the same. But obviously nothing beats a great worn in original. You could use a tube screamer but there is much better out there. Most of Stevie Ray Vaughan's tone came from the set of 13's he had, the 59 pick ups and the way he held his pick. I get his tone in spades without a Tube Screamer and a cranked Deluxe Reverb (modified a little though ).

EDIT: If you don't end up getting the Super, you can get close to his sound with a decent Fender Blues Junior and a Jersey Girl Fulltender. The Fulltender is designed to sound like a cranked Super, it is literally the SRV tone in a box and I've tried over 40 different overdrives and nothing else really compares.
Last edited by ibanart300 at May 7, 2013,
#6
There's other kickass blues amps out there, too. I mean if you really want to sound like SRV, then get Super Reverb, but an old Bassman or JTM45/50 would sound killer too, albeit with less headroom, respectively. Of course I suppose you could toss a 12ay7 in a Bassman or JTM for more headroom. (That should require a tech to bias it of course).

However, the placement of the tone stack, and the negative-feedback loop, of the Reverb wouldn't be there. They'll never quite be the same, regardless of what tubes you fill them with.

I think that's really pretty much the only differences though?

Take this with some salt, though. Listen to the in-house engineers. I'm just bored.
"If you're looking for me,
you better check under the sea,
because that's where you'll find me..."
Last edited by DeathByDestroyr at May 7, 2013,
#7
12AY7's will drop staright in without modding the bias. However, I haven't found that sticking a 12AY7 in V1 makes that much difference to the headroom of a JTM45. Maybe that's because I run it dimed though.
Gilchrist custom
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#8
There will be some component differences because (a.) some of the old components simply aren't manufactured anymore, and (b.) some of the old components will not meet the legal requirements for a commercially-sold electrical product. Marshall ran into the same problem when it reissued the 100-watt SLP. Their first attempt failed the UL standards in the United States and was rejected.

How much different the sound will be is pretty subjective. if you like the sound of the new ones, then by all means get yourself one. You'll probably enjoy it a great deal.
"Maybe this world is another planet's hell?" - Aldous Huxley
#9
Back in the 60's Leo was well known for buying a lot of military stuff to go in his amps. You aren't going to find military grade anything in a reissue. If you can find a real one buy it. If you are in the US you should be hunting down a proper blackface. We see people picking up blackface Fenders cheap in here all the time. Why anybody would buy a reissue when the real thing is freely available for less just baffles me.
Gilchrist custom
Yamaha SBG500
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My band
#10
Quote by Cathbard
Why anybody would buy a reissue when the real thing is freely available for less just baffles me.

A lot of people really don't like the idea of going used. It baffles me too. They'll buy used cars all day, but when it comes to an amp, gotta shell out the dough for a full-stack Spider.

I blame the media. Gotta be "phresh".
"If you're looking for me,
you better check under the sea,
because that's where you'll find me..."
#11
And the genuine 60's Fenders will still be going when all the reissues have been long dead. After the apocalypse the cockroaches will be jamming out on old blackface Fenders and Plexis, not reissues.
Gilchrist custom
Yamaha SBG500
Telecasters
Randall RM100 & RM20
Marshall JTM45 clone
Marshall JCM900 4102 (modded)
Marshall 18W clone
Fender 5F1 Champ clone
Atomic Amplifire
Marshall 1960A
Boss GT-100


Cathbard Amplification
My band
#12
Okay, here's another question. Let's say I do find either an original or a reissue. Either of them is going to be too loud for me to get the tubes "cooking" to give that soft yet slightly distorted sound that I'm seeking.

Is it possible to drain off some of the energy going to the speakers into something else? I've done that with stereo gear, putting resistors in the circuit where speakers should be, but that wasn't to drain off power but rather to keep the load balanced.

Is there something that can substitute for a speaker, using up energy but not producing sound, and not altering the sound from the speakers?
#13
How loud do you wanna play? If you want that overdriven output tube sound then I'd grab a deluxe reverb. Way easier amp to overdrive.
I don't give a shit if you listen to me or not
#14
Quote by Kevin Saale
How loud do you wanna play? If you want that overdriven output tube sound then I'd grab a deluxe reverb. Way easier amp to overdrive.


+1 that was my initial thought to. They are LOUD. Deluxe Reverb's will give you similar Blackface tone and break up quicker.
#15
Just stick an overdrive in front of it and push the preamp harder. If you want power amp distortion but can't crank a big Fender, get a Deluxe.
Gilchrist custom
Yamaha SBG500
Telecasters
Randall RM100 & RM20
Marshall JTM45 clone
Marshall JCM900 4102 (modded)
Marshall 18W clone
Fender 5F1 Champ clone
Atomic Amplifire
Marshall 1960A
Boss GT-100


Cathbard Amplification
My band
#16
I'm playing in my house, so I don't want it loud. Even though I live alone, my neighbors can sometimes hear my playing if it gets too loud.

I'm chasing that SRV sound on "Pride and Joy", which is not a distorted sound at all. As was explained to me in this thread -- https://www.ultimate-guitar.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1592256&page=1 --- the soft distorted sound comes from the tubes being driven to the point where they compress the sound. I also hear that same sort of compression in the work of other guitarists.

If driving the tubes to near maximum is what gives that sound, I'd like to try it, but without window-shattering volume. I'm thinking a couple of resistors could reduce volume, but I don't know how they'd affect sound.

I've heard the Super Reverb being played loud, and it gets close to "the sound", even without pedals.
#17
You can nail that tone easily, I got that tone with my Deluxe Reverb. One mod I did which is a DIY thing really, is remove the V1 preamp tube and installed it into the V6 Phase Inverter position. Cranked the volume to around 4 and it breaks up. Does the trick every time. But it also helps to have some thick strings and hold the pick in the right way and dig in.

The Super Reverb is great but yeah in a house you would need to attenuate it (or mod it) to the point of break up as you won't reach that without annoying your neighbours and the neighbours neighbours. Over at Fender guru's website there is a page of mods you can do to the SR to bring down volume a little and get earlier break up.

EDIT: My V1 was a 12AX7 which is what you would want in the PI for that mod.
Last edited by ibanart300 at May 8, 2013,
#18
You should be able to get a DR to that sound without bothering your neighbors. They aren't loud even when cranked.

As far as the resistor idea goes, we call them attenuators in the guitar world (you need some pretty big resistors due to all the current involved in guitar amps, even at the output). They're really only good at knocking the sound down a bit. I don't think they'll do what you want.

Seriously, try a deluxe reverb reissue and see if it doesn't do what you want. If it does, you won't need to mess with all this other stuff.
I don't give a shit if you listen to me or not
#19
Quote by ibanart300
You can nail that tone easily, I got that tone with my Deluxe Reverb. One mod I did which is a DIY thing really, is remove the V1 preamp tube and installed it into the V6 Phase Inverter position. Cranked the volume to around 4 and it breaks up. Does the trick every time. But it also helps to have some thick strings and hold the pick in the right way and dig in.

EDIT: My V1 was a 12AX7 which is what you would want in the PI for that mod.

Say what now? Do you mean switch V1 for V6 or leave V1 empty? Either way that's far from a mod, and is completely dependant on what tubes are in there...
Quote by Cathbard
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#20
Quote by tubetime86
Say what now? Do you mean switch V1 for V6 or leave V1 empty? Either way that's far from a mod, and is completely dependant on what tubes are in there...



Yeah I mean leave the V1 preamp empty and just use the Vibrato channel as the V1 position is for the normal channel. In my amp the V1 was a 12AX7 as I bought it used normally they are a different type of preamp tube from memory. Long story short put a 12AX7 into the phase inverter position normally V6 on the DR.

I call it a "mod" because it's the easiest way to describe it and in fact so many other forums and sites call it a mod as well.. Either way take the V1 preamp tube out as long as you don't use the normal channel as well. It simply pushes the other preamp tubes harder.

EDIT: My amp is modded in other ways anyhoo aside from the tube swap.
Last edited by ibanart300 at May 8, 2013,
#21
Thanks for the replies. I'll take a look at the Deluxe Reverb. It would be nice to compare the sound.

I found a link to the Fender Guru site, and he has all sorts of mods for all sorts of Fender amps, including the Super Reverb. Mods include removing or swapping tubes to reduce overhead while keeping the sound, as has been mentioned here already. In the videos, the amp sounded good in all of the different modifications.

I already have one Stratocaster set up with GHS Rocker .13 to .58 strings and Texas Special pickups. It sounds good.

I'm using a Peavey Classic 30, which I can't set past 2 on the volume under normal circumstances without it being obnoxiously loud. By the time I dial down the volume on my guitar and set the level on the Tube Screamer to try to get closer to "the sound", there's not much volume left, though. So I don't know that a 45 watt amp would be too much if tubes are removed or speakers taken out to cut volume in half.

I just won't know about the Deluxe Reverb until I can hear it. Ditto with the reissue Super Reverb.

Here's how I know I will think if I get the original '65 Super Reverb. I'll say that I got as close as possible, and that's as good as I can get (except maybe holding my pick differently ). If I get a reissue '65 or a Deluxe Reverb, and it doesn't sound right, I'll tell myself that I could have gotten closer.

It's not that I'll ever play or sound like SRV or even Keith Richards. But that's my goal, and I tend to be obsessive about such things.

BTW, on the resistor: I had the word "attenuator" somewhere in my head, but couldn't find it last night. I'd put one on a 500 watt/channel stereo system at my shop. It was huge, about the size of a very large cucumber. Did the job, though.
Last edited by Monkeyleg at May 8, 2013,
#22
Keef used a Tweed Deluxe heaps in the studio. The deluxe is very often the amp of choice when wanting overdriven Fender tones in the studio, that and Champs.
Gilchrist custom
Yamaha SBG500
Telecasters
Randall RM100 & RM20
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Marshall JCM900 4102 (modded)
Marshall 18W clone
Fender 5F1 Champ clone
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Marshall 1960A
Boss GT-100


Cathbard Amplification
My band
#23
Quote by Monkeyleg
Thanks for the replies. I'll take a look at the Deluxe Reverb. It would be nice to compare the sound.

I found a link to the Fender Guru site, and he has all sorts of mods for all sorts of Fender amps, including the Super Reverb. Mods include removing or swapping tubes to reduce overhead while keeping the sound, as has been mentioned here already. In the videos, the amp sounded good in all of the different modifications.

I already have one Stratocaster set up with GHS Rocker .13 to .58 strings and Texas Special pickups. It sounds good.

I'm using a Peavey Classic 30, which I can't set past 2 on the volume under normal circumstances without it being obnoxiously loud. By the time I dial down the volume on my guitar and set the level on the Tube Screamer to try to get closer to "the sound", there's not much volume left, though. So I don't know that a 45 watt amp would be too much if tubes are removed or speakers taken out to cut volume in half.

I just won't know about the Deluxe Reverb until I can hear it. Ditto with the reissue Super Reverb.

Here's how I know I will think if I get the original '65 Super Reverb. I'll say that I got as close as possible, and that's as good as I can get (except maybe holding my pick differently ). If I get a reissue '65 or a Deluxe Reverb, and it doesn't sound right, I'll tell myself that I could have gotten closer.

It's not that I'll ever play or sound like SRV or even Keith Richards. But that's my goal, and I tend to be obsessive about such things.

BTW, on the resistor: I had the word "attenuator" somewhere in my head, but couldn't find it last night. I'd put one on a 500 watt/channel stereo system at my shop. It was huge, about the size of a very large cucumber. Did the job, though.


One thing that will go a long way to sounding like SRV is having the right pick ups. Stevie Ray had 59 pick ups and the Texas Specials being hotter really don't sound right. This is one place that I went wrong. You should look into Sliders Vintage Pickups. Especially the 59/SRV set. Here is a clip of what they sound like:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g9oCIXHETy4

As for the pick Stevie Ray used the pick upside down. Trust me it does change things. Here is a clip on holding the pick correctly:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ru43iqXSJ3M

Hope this helps.
#24
Thanks again for the replies. Thanks, too, for the videos. There's a lot of information there.

With some SRV songs, the hotter pickups make sense, but they didn't seem to make sense with the soft sound of "Pride and Joy". I thought that the Texas Specials maybe were just part of this equipment jambalaya. Also, the pick is really interesting. I thought you were joking earlier, pulling my leg.

I don't expect to duplicate SRV's songs, or even sound the same. I'd just like to be able to get that tone, as I hear similar tones elsewhere. On the version of "Brown Sugar" on Sticky Fingers, for example, Keith Richards (or "Keef", if you prefer ), has a bit of distortion, some pretty hot chords, yet the tone is soft, almost like Pride and Joy. Richards, too, hit the strings really hard. He also was very good at getting just a little bit of distortion. I've seen the Stones on every tour since 1972, and I can't say I recall seeing him use a pedal. Maybe he did and I didn't notice because I wasn't into playing guitars until a year ago.

I can't get all the amps that everybody used for different songs, obviously. But if I can get an amp that gets close to the tones, so much the better. The Peavey Classic 30 is good for getting to the more heavily distorted opening chords on "Can't You Hear Me Knocking".

I wish I'd started playing 40 years ago when a) I was young enough to learn faster and 2) playing would have helped more with getting chicks.
#25
Fine example:

There's a 1967 Princeton Reverb on my local craiglist for $1400.

I don't have the money but I'd save the extra $400 before I bought a reissue cause why the **** not?
#26
Quote by ibanart300
They sound pretty much the same. But obviously nothing beats a great worn in original. You could use a tube screamer but there is much better out there. Most of Stevie Ray Vaughan's tone came from the set of 13's he had, the 59 pick ups and the way he held his pick. I get his tone in spades without a Tube Screamer and a cranked Deluxe Reverb (modified a little though ).


lolwut? there are parts on the srv recorded tracks i can point to and say "that's a tubescreamer". it's pretty obvious.

also most of srv's tone came from him being a total badass guitarist. if you have ballpark gear and can play like srv, you can get pretty darn close.
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Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
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#27
Quote by Dave_Mc
lolwut? there are parts on the srv recorded tracks i can point to and say "that's a tubescreamer". it's pretty obvious.

also most of srv's tone came from him being a total badass guitarist. if you have ballpark gear and can play like srv, you can get pretty darn close.


Of course I know that and can do the same thing but I wasn't satisfied with the tube screamer and most of the guys I know who solely play/cover SRV don't use them either.

Which is also why I recommended the Fulltender for SRV's higher gain work like Texas Flood. It's not a tube screamer but is designed to sound like a cranked Super with a screamer pushing it. Get's you a way better tone despite the tube screamer being the pedal that he used. For me a Deluxe Reverb gets me to that ball park with the Fulltender, given a stock as a rock re-issue would require a few changes to get there.

And yeah we all know the tone was in his fingers and the hat. Can't forget the hat.
Last edited by ibanart300 at May 8, 2013,
#28
... and the hat.




I have to ask, though: why would Fender make a clone (or close as they can get) of SRV's #1, and then make the Texas Specials, and claim that they're the same type of pickup he used? Or is it just that they're 59's, but his could have had fewer or more windings? I've read that QC back in '59 or so wasn't very precise.
Last edited by Monkeyleg at May 9, 2013,
#29
Quote by ibanart300
Of course I know that and can do the same thing but I wasn't satisfied with the tube screamer and most of the guys I know who solely play/cover SRV don't use them either.

Which is also why I recommended the Fulltender for SRV's higher gain work like Texas Flood. It's not a tube screamer but is designed to sound like a cranked Super with a screamer pushing it. Get's you a way better tone despite the tube screamer being the pedal that he used. For me a Deluxe Reverb gets me to that ball park with the Fulltender, given a stock as a rock re-issue would require a few changes to get there.

And yeah we all know the tone was in his fingers and the hat. Can't forget the hat.


I'm an idiot and I accidentally clicked the "Remove all subscriptions" button. If it seems like I'm ignoring you, I'm not, I'm just no longer subscribed to the thread. If you quote me or do the @user thing at me, hopefully it'll notify me through my notifications and I'll get back to you.
Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#30
Quote by Monkeyleg


I have to ask, though: why would Fender make a clone (or close as they can get) of SRV's #1, and then make the Texas Specials, and claim that they're the same type of pickup he used? Or is it just that they're 59's, but his could have had fewer or more windings? I've read that QC back in '59 or so wasn't very precise.


Fender made the Texas Specials hot as they know that not everyone has a Super Reverb and monkey hands like Stevie Ray Vaughan. So us normal handed kind can play guitar normally and combined with the higher output that is geared more towards midrange frequencies sound a lot closer to his tone. His pick ups were never high out put though, they were standard 59's.

I read an article that was actually an interview with his guitar tech, and he said that Stevie Ray's Number 1 guitar was a '62. But when they pulled the pick ups out of the guitar they were stamped 59. Just standard to, nothing special.

You might find these two links help a lot:

Interview:

http://www.musicradar.com/news/guitars/interview-stevie-ray-vaughans-guitar-tech-rene-martinez-267030

More on pick ups:

http://steviesnacks.com/blog/overwound-pickups-camera-apps-and-dirty-windows

EDIT: To be fair to Fender, they never actually claim that the Texas Specials are built to the same specifications as Stevie Ray's Number 1.
Last edited by ibanart300 at May 9, 2013,
#31
Quote by ibanart300
Fender made the Texas Specials hot as they know that not everyone has a Super Reverb and monkey hands like Stevie Ray Vaughan. So us normal handed kind can play guitar normally and combined with the higher output that is geared more towards midrange frequencies sound a lot closer to his tone. His pick ups were never high out put though, they were standard 59's.

I read an article that was actually an interview with his guitar tech, and he said that Stevie Ray's Number 1 guitar was a '62. But when they pulled the pick ups out of the guitar they were stamped 59. Just standard to, nothing special.

You might find these two links help a lot:

Interview:

http://www.musicradar.com/news/guitars/interview-stevie-ray-vaughans-guitar-tech-rene-martinez-267030

More on pick ups:

http://steviesnacks.com/blog/overwound-pickups-camera-apps-and-dirty-windows

EDIT: To be fair to Fender, they never actually claim that the Texas Specials are built to the same specifications as Stevie Ray's Number 1.


Maybe I should just wind my own. Hell, I used to roll my own.

I was playing with my other Strat last night that has Fender Fat 50's on it. It has lighter strings, though, so I couldn't do a fair side-by-side comparison, but they had a softer tone.

I'd just like to be able to achieve close to that SRV tone, and I don't think the Peavey will do it. It's a tone that will work for a whole slew of different guitarist's styles.

The idea of spending $1500+ on a blackface Super Reverb is outrageous for me right now, but $900+ for a '65 Reissue is not. I watched a Youtube video where a guy compared his blackface Super Reverb to a Reissue, and the Reissue sounded too hot. He then swapped the Jensens on the Reissue for some less expensive speakers (Westen, or something), and they sounded pretty close to the originals.

I think my next step is to find a store that has an original and a reissue, listen to them both, and decide whether it's worth spending ~$1000.
#32
Definitely compare the amps side by side and make a decision that you are happy with. If you did get the re-issue you could have it modded in due time to the same or similar specs of the originals.

If you do want identical spec'd pick ups I hear the Sliders Vintage Classics 59/SRV set are identical if not very very close, otherwise like you said just wind your own if you have the know how and time. Anyways all the best on your hunt!
#33
Thanks, ibanart300. You've been a big help.

From what I've read and heard, the original and the reissue are almost identical. I don't know how much difference wire-to-post circuitry versus circuit boards makes.

I watched a good Youtube comparison of the two (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kpdb3G6QFwU), and there was definitely a difference in the speakers. I wonder how close the two would be if one were to find a set of used Super Reverb speakers.
#34
Well, I bought a SR reissue for $829. Looks brand new. It sounds beautiful. It has a really rich low end, and good midrange. The highs sound good, but are brighter than what I've heard on vintage SR's. I figure part of that is that the vintage models have speaker cones that are nearly 50 years old (if they haven't been reconed).

I'm going to try to find some original CTS 10" speakers.

If I pull the preamp tube for the clean channel, use the reverb/vibrato channel, set the amp volume all the way up to ten, put my TS9 level all the way up (no gain, though), and set my guitar volume at 3, I get some really nice compression on the mid and low tones. As I said, the highs are still a bit bright, at least on single notes. High chords break up nicely. Best of all, the breakup on the high chords and the low and mid tones sounds soft, not like "Money for Nothing" (which I'd love to be able to play, though).

It's not 100% SRV, but it's close enough for now. I'm a happy guy.

I put the Peavey Classic 30 side by side. It has a really nice sound to it, but nowhere near the amount of low end. The Super Reverb just sounds so big. Then again, it has 2.79 times the amount of speaker surface area. The Peavey sounds better for "Brown Sugar", though, as well as some non-SRV blues riffs.
#35
^ nice
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Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?