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#1
Hi guys hope you are well,

I tried one of these Marshall JMP today and I was shocked on how good it sounded and how loud a 1 watt amp could be. I am considering doing a trade in of my Marshall JCM2000 40W Combo to get it.

My only concern would be gigging. It seems like it may not be loud enough compared the 40W I have.

I would like to know your guys opinions on wether this is a good idea or if there are better alternatives

Edit: For example there is an orange tiny terror head I could probably pick up for close to the same price.
Quote by The Spoon
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But hey, at least you have a 10% chance of absolutely guaranteeing failure.
Last edited by British_Steal at May 14, 2013,
#3
What don't you like about the DSL401?
Quote by DeathByDestroyr
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#5
Stoopid idea. What's wrong with your 401? Maybe retubing it would be a better use of your money? And/or a speaker change?


before you ask:
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Last edited by Cathbard at May 14, 2013,
#6
The 1W anniversary amps are higher quality built than your generic factory amp, it's not that surprising that they sound awesome, the ones I heard were the best sounding Marshalls I've heard. 1W though really isn't going to be loud enough for live use.
Cornford Hellcat
Peavey 5150
1994 Ibanez Jem 7V
#7
Quote by Bigbazz
The 1W anniversary amps are higher quality built than your generic factory amp, it's not that surprising that they sound awesome, the ones I heard were the best sounding Marshalls I've heard. 1W though really isn't going to be loud enough for live use.

I take it you've never heard the original JMPs then
#8
Quote by darkwolf291
I take it you've never heard the original JMPs then


Not in person no, but since it not the 1970s you cannot buy them and they are very rare to see. Of the Modern and widespread Marshalls the 1W series are the best sounding to me.
Cornford Hellcat
Peavey 5150
1994 Ibanez Jem 7V
#9
An original JMP will still be going after all the reissues have turned to dust. Wtf does it matter how old it is?
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#10
Quote by Cathbard
An original JMP will still be going after all the reissues have turned to dust. Wtf does it matter how old it is?


Price, availability and really what you say is wrong. An original is likely to have a lot of use, things wear out. Sure an original Marshall might sound great but there are issues.

Like I said

1. Availability
2. Price
3. Condition/Wear
Cornford Hellcat
Peavey 5150
1994 Ibanez Jem 7V
#11
In the US you see JMP and JCM800's go cheaper than a reissue all the time. They're not exactly rare. So it may need new tubes? - so will a reissue straight from the factory.
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#12
You can fix up one of the old ones WAY easier than the new ones.

And the old ones will keep running longer anyway.
As long as youre not an idiot and run it with no cab or something.

You can find a plexi any day of the week on Craigslist.
Availability is a nonissue.
Theres tons of em available, and for about not much more than the reissue if you play your cards right

And dont call Cath wrong.

The originals were built better, and are stronger than those reissues.
The reissues were built as cheaply as possible.
Why do you think they only msrp'd for $800?
#13
Quote by Cathbard
In the US you see JMP and JCM800's go cheaper than a reissue all the time. They're not exactly rare. So it may need new tubes? - so will a reissue straight from the factory.


He isn't talking about a reissue though, the 1w series are not reissues. And there is no practical reason why a new factory amp would need new valves. And I wasn't actually talking about worn valves.

The 50th anniversary amps are much higher build quality and simplistic 1w amps, they cost £500 +, they are very much a premium/boutique level option with a limited production.

They just happen to sound incredible, much better than anything Marshall has on their production line, I wouldn't buy a modern Marshall but I'd buy one of those.
Cornford Hellcat
Peavey 5150
1994 Ibanez Jem 7V
Last edited by Bigbazz at May 14, 2013,
#14
But it's a toy. Those DSL401's are a mighty amp if you set them up right. They just need the right tubes and speaker and dialled in correctly (read MV on 10).
And an actual 2203/4? It will slay both of them - if that was indeed an option.
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#16
The original DSL401's came with Ei's in the preamp IIRC and Teslas in the power amp. The preamp tubes may still be ok (two of the Ei's in my JCM900 are still good) but the power tubes would definitely need replacing by now unless it's never been used. They were the last Marshall to come out with decent tubes before they switched to crappy OEM Chinese shit.
But yeah, whether he fixes the DSL or buys the toy, new tubes are the order of the day.

I haven't actually heard a Creamback in a DSL401 but it's gotta be orgasmic.
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#18
Quote by Cathbard
The original DSL401's came with Ei's in the preamp IIRC and Teslas in the power amp. The preamp tubes may still be ok (two of the Ei's in my JCM900 are still good) but the power tubes would definitely need replacing by now unless it's never been used. They were the last Marshall to come out with decent tubes before they switched to crappy OEM Chinese shit.
But yeah, whether he fixes the DSL or buys the toy, new tubes are the order of the day.

I haven't actually heard a Creamback in a DSL401 but it's gotta be orgasmic.


Don't get me wrong though, I don't think he should buy the 1W either. It's a practice/studio amp, not much use in a live situation. In terms of sound quality though you can't knock them, they sound incredible (the JTM1, JMP1 and JCM1 atleast).
Cornford Hellcat
Peavey 5150
1994 Ibanez Jem 7V
#19
The early DSL401's overheated but it's a pretty easy fix. They had the wrong rectifier in them.
I'm quite fond of the DSL401 in case you hadn't noticed. They'd have to be in my top 5 Marshalls. Magic blues/rock amp. You just crank 'em to 10 and let rip. I'd like one to convert to a head. Sit it on a 1960 or two - bewdiful.
Gilchrist custom
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Telecasters
Randall RM100 & RM20
Marshall JTM45 clone
Marshall JCM900 4102 (modded)
Marshall 18W clone
Fender 5F1 Champ clone
Atomic Amplifire
Marshall 1960A
Boss GT-100


Cathbard Amplification
My band
Last edited by Cathbard at May 14, 2013,
#20
I have looked on gak and seen 4 or 5 different ones, which one would be best? The one watt series seems llike a good way to get great Marshall tone at a quiet level, apparently slash has recorded using either a one or five watt cause Mic'd up you can't tell difference.

Don't know if I could afford one £500 is alot for a One watt but I'm recording digitally as can't crank a half stack in a flat.
Gear:

Gibson lpj
Epiphone Les Paul Standard
Epiphone Les Paul 1960's Tribute Plus
Schecter s-1
Marshall JCM900 100WATT HEAD
Fender mustang 1
Dunlop Crybaby
Danelectro Distortion
Tanglewood exotic electro acoustic
Westfield Bass
Last edited by nightwalker903 at May 14, 2013,
#21
Quote by nightwalker903
apparently slash has recorded using either a one or five watt cause Mic'd up you can't tell difference.


Mic'd up. In a professional studio. With guitars and mics that cost £££££s going into post production which costs even more.
Quote by ZanasCross
I'm now so drunk that even if my mom had given me a blow job at aeg 2, i'd be like I'm a pmp, butches.!

If this even madkes sense... if yhou sig this, Iw ll kill you.
#22
I'm not sure if a £100 SM57 is a big deal when it comes to mics, a cheap guitar with good pickups can do 99% of what a top of the line can do and studio production is not a mystery. If anything those 1W amps will sound better than the big stacks, they are incredible sounding amps and you can get that pushed sound at a lower volume.

Getting a good recorded tone is not a big deal, some amps record easier than others but it doesn't require a massive ammount of money, most of the most famous tones were recorded with an SM57 mic, which is hardly big money. I currently record most of both my guitars and vocals with a Shure SM7B, which is for sure a slightly more expensive mic, but still not big bucks in the context of a studio. It's quite viable to get amazing guitar tones on record for cheap.

Those Marshall amps are damn expensive for a 1W and they just arent viable for live but as a studio amp you get what you pay for, they sound amazing and not just amazing for a modern Marshall but amazing in that they can hang with the vintage Marshalls and the boutique amp companies like Splawn, Cornford, Bogner etc.
Cornford Hellcat
Peavey 5150
1994 Ibanez Jem 7V
#23
Right, so pro studios aren't going to use their Neumann U87's and such for guitars? They're just gonna leave it in the cupboard and use nothing but a shitty old SM57 when they have a $5000 mike on hand? Why the **** would they do that?
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Cathbard Amplification
My band
#24
Quote by Cathbard
Right, so pro studios aren't going to use their Neumann U87's and such for guitars? They're just gonna leave it in the cupboard and use nothing but a shitty old SM57 when they have a $5000 mike on hand? Why the **** would they do that?


Don't ask me why, but the most common mic on guitar recordings is the SM57 by a massive margin. Don't forget when it comes to mics recording guitar amps more expensive doesn't mean better.

I went to a pro studio in 2009, he had all kinds of mics going into the range of £6000 (some sony thing, might well have had a U87 too), aswell as a valve preamp unit worth something like £8000. We tried a bunch of mics on the amp and settled with an SM57 for 90% of the main sound. You can use whatever mic you want on recordings, but the SM57 is "the" mic for recording guitars and most of the famous rock/metal album tones were recorded using that mic.

A U87 is a condensor, and sure you can use one if you want but if you're recording rock guitar you're probably going to want to use a dynamic mic. Such as an SM57!
Cornford Hellcat
Peavey 5150
1994 Ibanez Jem 7V
Last edited by Bigbazz at May 14, 2013,
#25
But they'll use something like a U87 as a far feild mic. You don't just use one mic in a top end studio. You use two or three and blend them. It's an art in itself.
Gilchrist custom
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#26
Quote by Cathbard
But they'll use something like a U87 as a far feild mic. You don't just use one mic in a top end studio. You use two or three and blend them. It's an art in itself.


Taken from an interview about the recording of Appetite for destruction.

The guitar is very straightforward with Slash. He plays one electric guitar for everything, the replica of a 1959 Les Paul Standard made by Chris Derrig that he obtained when recording Appetite For Destruction, and I used a few different mics on his very loud cabinets, mostly an SM57, but sometimes a Sennheiser 421, sometimes a Beyer 160 ribbon if we wanted it to sound a little warmer and smoother. He has a particular Marshall 412 cabinet he really likes that has great low end. We would almost always have that rig going, because it’s very comfortable for him while he’s playing, and occasionally I’d mult the signal from his guitar to other amps, such as an AC30 and an old Silvertone, to blend in and get different textures that can help identify different parts.”



Using a U87 for guitars is just not likely at all.

1. You want to be able to crank your amp so you need a mic that can handle high sound pressures, a dynamic is often used for this, placed close to the cab (often right on the grill/cloth)

2. Cranking your amp means that there will be sound reflections going around, room treatment helps with this but having a very directional mic like an SM57 can do wonders to keep the sound very direct. A condensor will pickup more of these reflections and room sound rather than the direct raw sound, which is not always desired, especially not in a tight mix, or a mix with a lot going on.

3. You could use a condensor at the distance to add "room" to the sound but chances are it won't sound that great and the slight delay in the sound reaching the mic might not blend well with the SM57, giving an out of phase sound. It could work but it isn't a popular choice.

4. For a blender sound a ribbon mic about 1-2foot away from the cab is much more popular, but you wouldn't likely use it for the main sound and careful placement has to be used to avoid phasing issues.

I'm a producer with a degree in music technology and a fair bit of experience, recorded in pro studios and have a lot of experience recording guitars/vocals, and I have my own personal work recorded at professional release quality to back that up.


An SM57 is all you really "need" to create world class guitar recordings.
Cornford Hellcat
Peavey 5150
1994 Ibanez Jem 7V
Last edited by Bigbazz at May 14, 2013,
#27
They're used as far field mikes all the time. Mark Knopfler was miked up with a U87, I've seen photos of it. Your own quote shows that they are using other things like ribbons even in your own example. You simply can't say that recordings aren't dressed up in the studio by using multiple mikes and various forms of post production. "All they ever use is an sm57" is an outrageous claim and you know it. Some may, but you can't assume that's all that you are ever hearing.
Gilchrist custom
Yamaha SBG500
Telecasters
Randall RM100 & RM20
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Marshall JCM900 4102 (modded)
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Cathbard Amplification
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#28
Quote by Cathbard
They're used as far field mikes all the time. Mark Knopfler was miked up with a U87, I've seen photos of it. Your own quote shows that they are using other things like ribbons even in your own example. You simply can't say that recordings aren't dressed up in the studio by using multiple mikes and various forms of post production. "All they ever use is an sm57" is an outrageous claim and you know it. Some may, but you can't assume that's all that you are ever hearing.


Its not an outrageous claim. The statement above said that you need to spend big money on mics and you don't, all you "need" is an SM57, those blender mics are making up maybe a 10% ratio (sometimes less) and it really is only a subtle difference, the biggest rock tones in the world are SM57 sounds and though yes other mics can and have been used as a blend that does not mean they are "needed" to create the best sound.

For every record that has used an SM57 with a blender secondary mic there is a record that has used just pure SM57, the main mic on appetite is an SM57 and that is what you're hearing for the most part, it is one of the most important elements in that sound.

Using the Mark Knoplfer example is quite a big contrast to guns n roses.
Cornford Hellcat
Peavey 5150
1994 Ibanez Jem 7V
#29
That's not what was said. It was your response to
Quote by cliff_em_all
Mic'd up. In a professional studio. With guitars and mics that cost £££££s going into post production which costs even more.
that triggerred this.
He was quite right. It was likely to be exactly what was done. Not everything is done with just an SM57 and you can't assume that it was.
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Cathbard Amplification
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#30
At the end of the day, Claiming it sounds exactly the same should always be taken with a pinch of salt. It's marketing. Theres a reason people get paid high amounts to market the products. and luckily enough Marshall have the money and clout in their field to be able to claim such things. Look at the MG series. I like the little 1watt marshalls alot. they sound great. Would i use one in a studio? doubtful. That's all down to personal preference. The JCM800 that was used on my bands e.p slays the 1watt model.
Quote by ZanasCross
I'm now so drunk that even if my mom had given me a blow job at aeg 2, i'd be like I'm a pmp, butches.!

If this even madkes sense... if yhou sig this, Iw ll kill you.
#31
Quote by Cathbard
That's not what was said. It was your response to
that triggerred this.
He was quite right. It was likely to be exactly what was done. Not everything is done with just an SM57 and you can't assume that it was.


But the point is that you dont "need" anything more than an SM57 to get great professional level guitar recordings, and that statement is absolutely 100% true. Many records have been recorded that way.
Cornford Hellcat
Peavey 5150
1994 Ibanez Jem 7V
#32
Jus throwing this out there, I feel like the Anny amps are a bit silly (this Anny amp series, that is). I was very unimpressed by the o e I played (DSL) but even had I liked it, it was still pretty loud.
I'm just a kickin' and a gougin' in the mud and the blood and the beer.
#33
Quote by Bigbazz
But the point is that you dont "need" anything more than an SM57 to get great professional level guitar recordings, and that statement is absolutely 100% true. Many records have been recorded that way.

You dont need a mike or amp to get a professional level guitar recording.
Interfaces and software are amazing.

But an amp mic'd with a quality mic sounds way better
#34
Yeah the JMP just sounds incredible to be honest, easily the best marshall Ive ever heard. The DSL sounds great when its cranked to hell as well though but its not voiced quite as well as the JMP is. Its a real shame they couldnt come out with something a bit louder.

How about say an Orange Tiny Terror though? My main problem with the DSL is it just doesnt have that open warm punch that old marshalls had, maybe its because they went class A/B instead of just pure class A. I guess I will have to try it and see. Orange probably wont get any closer than the DSL would.

Honestly, it boggles my mind why the **** wont marshall just release those old amps for a decent price! They were perfect imo
Quote by The Spoon
Unless you're sure she likes you, telling her you like her has a 110% chance of failing.

But hey, at least you have a 10% chance of absolutely guaranteeing failure.
Last edited by British_Steal at May 14, 2013,
#35
What about my suggestion of sorting out the DSL. Seriously, a speaker change and a new set of JJ's will transform your amp beyond recognition.


Quote by Bigbazz
But the point is that you dont "need" anything more than an SM57 to get great professional level guitar recordings, and that statement is absolutely 100% true. Many records have been recorded that way.
That's not how I read it. I read it as "just because that's the amp used in the studio doesn't mean that's how it sounds in the flesh because you don't know what studio tricks were used."
And btw. I said, "U87 and such." That includes things like RCA ribbons and other top end mikes. U87 was just an example of what I've seen used.
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Last edited by Cathbard at May 14, 2013,
#36
Quote by Cathbard
What about my suggestion of sorting out the DSL. Seriously, a speaker change and a new set of JJ's will transform your amp beyond recognition.


That's not how I read it. I read it as "just because that's the amp used in the studio doesn't mean that's how it sounds in the flesh because you don't know what studio tricks were used."
And btw. I said, "U87 and such." That includes things like RCA ribbons and other top end mikes. U87 was just an example of what I've seen used.


Well Ive decided to keep the DSL for sure. Yes thanks for the advice I will defs think about upgrading it how much would you say the new speaker/tubes would cost me?
Quote by The Spoon
Unless you're sure she likes you, telling her you like her has a 110% chance of failing.

But hey, at least you have a 10% chance of absolutely guaranteeing failure.
#37
Quote by British_Steal
Well Ive decided to keep the DSL for sure. Yes thanks for the advice I will defs think about upgrading it how much would you say the new speaker/tubes would cost me?


$40-45 for preamp tubes. JJ's sound great in there. You have 4 12AX7's. 4 EL84 power amp tubes $40-50.

What year is it? The newer ones extremely easy to bias.

Speakers anywhere from $80-140.


What style of music do you play? It might help for speaker recommendations.
Quote by DeathByDestroyr
See, it's important that people clarify when they say "metal", because I pretty much always assume they are a Cannibal Corpse fanboi.
Last edited by R45VT at May 14, 2013,
#38
A full set of JJ's will set you back about $90 give or take. Check out tubedepot, Doug's or Eurotubes. I've seen Creambacks on ebay for under $150 new.
Gilchrist custom
Yamaha SBG500
Telecasters
Randall RM100 & RM20
Marshall JTM45 clone
Marshall JCM900 4102 (modded)
Marshall 18W clone
Fender 5F1 Champ clone
Atomic Amplifire
Marshall 1960A
Boss GT-100


Cathbard Amplification
My band
#39
Quote by Cathbard
A full set of JJ's will set you back about $90 give or take. Check out tubedepot, Doug's or Eurotubes. I've seen Creambacks on ebay for under $150 new.


Thanks. How about the installation?
Quote by The Spoon
Unless you're sure she likes you, telling her you like her has a 110% chance of failing.

But hey, at least you have a 10% chance of absolutely guaranteeing failure.
#40
Well the preamp tubes are easy, just pull out the old ones and plug in the new ones.
The power tubes should be rebiased. It's actually not hard to do on those. Here are the instructions. http://drtube.com/schematics/marshall/dl40-68-00-iss2.pdf If you can't work it out from that take it to somebody, Maybe $50. If you do decide to do it yourself be very careful, high voltages in there.
The speaker I'm sure you'll work out for yourself.
Gilchrist custom
Yamaha SBG500
Telecasters
Randall RM100 & RM20
Marshall JTM45 clone
Marshall JCM900 4102 (modded)
Marshall 18W clone
Fender 5F1 Champ clone
Atomic Amplifire
Marshall 1960A
Boss GT-100


Cathbard Amplification
My band
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