#1
I'm in a three piece, and I was wondering if this would be overkill or great (if done right). I play through a Marshal Mode 4 and a 1960A cab. Our bassist plays through an Ampeg SVT4 with 8x10 cab. I was thinking about adding another cab. So our live lay out would be: [Guitar] [Drums] [Bass] [Guitar]

1. Would it be overkill?
2. I'm imagining it would help thicken the sound live if EQ'd properly.
3. If I were to buy another cab, should I go with another 1960 A or do I have to get the 1960B?


What do you think?
Gear List


Gibson Les Paul Standard
Epiphone Les Paul Classic
Oscar Schmitt OE30

Orange Rockerverb 50


Gas List

Gibson Firebird
#2
Overkill is relative. If for some strange reason you're having trouble being heard in what ever situation, then no it's not -- but I don't think volume is your problem. It won't do all that much to thicken the sound in comparison to running two amps stereo, which certainly would. That might be a good idea if you feel that your guitar sounds a little weak with just one guitarist/amp.

Is that what you're looking for?
#3
It's not that I'm not being heard. I just was wondering if it would be nice to have cab's on both sides to distribute the guitar evenly through out the crowd.

My thinking:
So if I have the two cabs, someone (x) stands in front of the bass, and they would not lose guitar instead of being in front of jut the cab.


My thinking (illustrated):
[Guitar] [Drums] [Bass] [Guitar]


-------------------------X
Gear List


Gibson Les Paul Standard
Epiphone Les Paul Classic
Oscar Schmitt OE30

Orange Rockerverb 50


Gas List

Gibson Firebird
Last edited by randomhero65 at May 16, 2013,
#4
I've spread out cabinets across the stage so that I can hear myself when I go wandering around. Neal Schon (who has tinitus) has spread out five 4x12s on stage so that he can retain the feeling of playing "in a room" even when playing some of the giant outdoor arenas where the sound goes out and never comes back. Each one, though, has its own 100W amp head (and he keeps them low, because the whole band has pulled back on stage volume since Steve Perry left).




Bass players have the advantage of more or less omnidirectional sound, at least at the bottom end (their treble, particularly with an 8x10, will beam), and drummers bolt their butt to the drums, so they never leave their sound.

Here's one issue you have with your current 4x12. The treble beams. Everything above 500Hz begins to narrow down, and what you hear is not what your knees hear (if they could) and not what someone walking directly in front of that cabinet would hear. I'd go into the physics, but it's the cabinet acting like one large speaker with a diameter of about 30". If you have a wireless, listen to yourself off-axis (as you normally would) and then hop off the stage and hear it straight ahead as an audience member who happened to walk in front of it would. Ear-splitting treble. You're up on stage thinking you sound godlike and whoever walks in front of your speaker has his drink shattered and wonders why you're such a crappy guitarist and what the hell has happened to your hearing. Put two of them up and your 100W amp will have those speakers farting out below 500Hz, though -- you get a mushy, muddy mess at the bottom end if you leave the bedroom and crank it up a bit.

I've put FOUR 4x12s into storage. I started running a pair of 2x12s with tweeters, on each side of the stage. The tweeters didn't add treble; they just spread it over a much wider area. They looked like this (but covered with LineX truck bed liner, not ratfur):



At first I ran a 50W/50W tube power amp through them, but found I got much cleaner bottom end (these are Eminence Delta ProA's in a properly ported box and will handle huge power) if I switched the power section to a 1500W 750W/750W SS power amp. Awesome, perfect piano-like bottom end.

At that point, everyone on stage could hear me properly and everyone off stage heard exactly what I heard. And if necessary, everyone on Pluto could hear me properly with a twist of the volume dial.

But the damned things weighed a ton apiece (heavy speakers, heavier construction).

The solution came from bass players. About a year and a half ago I decided to add bass to the skill set.

Old line bass players play with 4x10s and 8x10s. Brutally heavy refrigerator-size speakers with just-as-heavy 300W tube amps. Nothing under 100 lbs.

More cutting-edge bass players have 1500W amps that weigh 10 lbs. And they have 45-lb speaker cabinets with neo-based speakers with a single 15", a 6" mids and a 1" tweeter that are smaller, lighter, flatter response, *deeper* and higher response (I really never realized that bass players have moved to cabinets that are more like high-end PA with a much wider frequency response than guitars).



A single fEARful 15/6/1 can handle 900W in its sleep and nothing will fart out, all the way down to 7-string bass lows. Better yet, the dispersion on these things is superb; all of the speakers are crossed over before they can begin to beam.

One of these things will be more than you need. A pair of these things, stacked, will put your bassist's 8x10 on the trailer easily, will move the most aggressive drummer to tears (and the hearing clinic) and will make the sound guy jealous and will cover any room (or stage) dispersion-wise and get you tickets from the police out of doors. Better yet? the whole rig will weigh less than just ONE of your current 4x12s. And you get a better choice of roadies:

Last edited by dspellman at May 16, 2013,
#5
^^Good info. I learned about how treble projects the hard way at venues just how you described.

TS, do the venues you play at mic your amps through the PA? If so, they can really help spread your sound out across the stage, but a second cab on the other side wouldn't be a terrible idea. That actually gives me an idea for my own band. Maybe if my guitarist and I each had full stacks, but our amps would driver one per side so that it's distributed evenly.

Most venues around SoCal seem to prefer to mic the amps, so it isn't so much of a problem, but it would be interesting to try.
#6
@ExDementia
Well,
In my previous band I was in a 5 piece and it was never a worry. Most of the venues do not mic bands. Usually is just hook up your amps, set up your drums, and use vocals on our not-so-awesome PA. If they do mic, I would not see a need as much. It just had me thinking because as a three piece, I want to make it a well dispersed sound.

@dspellman
Thank you so much for the information. It really was great, but I dont have the money to completely overhaul the gear. I will definitely look into the future with this.
Gear List


Gibson Les Paul Standard
Epiphone Les Paul Classic
Oscar Schmitt OE30

Orange Rockerverb 50


Gas List

Gibson Firebird
Last edited by randomhero65 at May 16, 2013,
#7
Quote by randomhero65
@ExDementia
Well,
In my previous band I was in a 5 piece and it was never a worry. Most of the venues do not mic bands. Usually is just hook up your amps, set up your drums, and use vocals on our not-so-awesome PA. If they do mic, I would not see a need as much. It just had me thinking because as a three piece, I want to make it a well dispersed sound.

@dspellman
Thank you so much for the information. It really was great, but I dont have the money to completely overhaul the gear. I will definitely look into the future with this.


Ultimately, the best setup is a good PA and good monitors. You can actually run with zero amplification for individual instruments (guitar into a Pod and then to the mixer, with keyboards and drums (miked and with electronic pads) into the mixer, along with the bass).

And with a bit of creative carpentry...

Last edited by dspellman at May 16, 2013,