k10
I'll be making history...
Join date: Jun 2009
258 IQ
#1
sup rock fans
I'm just wondering, is this true?

"no diss to Serj.. If he wants to be in the band then he's welcome but if he's not? what do you expect us 3 to do.?? we really want anorther System Record! wish Serj was down but if hes not, then im going ahead and making a System record without him!!! im furious that he let us down like this, but we gotta do something to keep this great band alive!!! agreed????????"

Shavo from SOAD wrote on his FB page, is this true or is it some kind of troll
Cort x6
Aster LK-630
Amplitube and Guitar Rig user
John Frusciante fan 4 life
ChemicalFire
King of Bacon Pancakes
Join date: Oct 2007
5,773 IQ
#2
Modern Rock forum. There is a thread for this band there.
All I want is for everyone to go to hell...
...It's the last place I was seen before I lost myself



Quote by DisarmGoliath
You can be the deputy llamma of the recordings forum!
guitgrinder
Look! Over there!!!---->
Join date: Apr 2007
1,408 IQ
#5
Ugh. I know they're not actually the worst band ever, but WORST. BAND. EVER. I'd waaaaay rather listen to nails on a chalkboard than this shit. Ever since I first heard them in the 9th grade I could never see what people saw in this band. Cliche lyrics. wimpy guitar riffs. I hadn't heard this band in years until last Friday on the radio at work & it reminded me of how much I hate being subjected to his terrible "singing."


Whyyyy dont you ask the kids at Tienneman Square...


whhyyy don't you juuuuust shut the fuuuuck uuuup?
CoreysMonster
Banned
Join date: Apr 2005
8,557 IQ
#6
Why don't you bother to check out the good songs that made them popular, where they sing about clichéd things like forgetting your keys on the table, and pizza pizza pie?
EqualOfHeaven
The Great Sage
Join date: Feb 2013
195 IQ
#8
Devil's Advocate:

Just because you don't like don't mean it ain't metal.

Pedantic Tit:

If we're qualifying 'Extreme' Metal here, then no they are not Extreme. But it's hard to deny that they're Metal, by far more aggressive and abrasive than Motorhead or Iron Maiden.
Hoodoo Man
LEG XX VV
Join date: Apr 2007
10 IQ
#10
Quote by EqualOfHeaven
Devil's Advocate:

Just because you don't like don't mean it ain't metal.

Pedantic Tit:

If we're qualifying 'Extreme' Metal here, then no they are not Extreme. But it's hard to deny that they're Metal, by far more aggressive and abrasive than Motorhead or Iron Maiden.


Discharge are more aggressive and abrasive than Motorhead or Iron Maiden and they aren't metal. I also like them and they aren't metal. Therefore both of your arguments are wrong.
EqualOfHeaven
The Great Sage
Join date: Feb 2013
195 IQ
#11
Quote by Hoodoo Man
Discharge are more aggressive and abrasive than Motorhead or Iron Maiden and they aren't metal. I also like them and they aren't metal. Therefore both of your arguments are wrong.


Discharge are Crust Punk, which is a fusion genre. Hardcore Punk in general is basically Metal, some of it even extreme. The difference is only in the image, not in the music.

Also I was suggesting the logical link was 'don't like it therefor not metal', rather than 'I like it therefor it is metal'

Anything else you need me to clarify? Advocate
Morphogenesis26
UG Nerd
Join date: Apr 2011
468 IQ
#12
Quote by EqualOfHeaven
Discharge are Crust Punk, which is a fusion genre. Hardcore Punk in general is basically Metal, some of it even extreme. The difference is only in the image, not in the music.

Also I was suggesting the logical link was 'don't like it therefor not metal', rather than 'I like it therefor it is metal'

Anything else you need me to clarify? Advocate


What the ****.
Hoodoo Man
LEG XX VV
Join date: Apr 2007
10 IQ
#13
Quote by EqualOfHeaven
The difference is only in the image, not in the music.

This shows that you don't listen to music beyond the level of aesthetics.

Quote by EqualOfHeaven
Also I was suggesting the logical link was 'don't like it therefor not metal', rather than 'I like it therefor it is metal'

You implied that people were dismissing music as not metal because they don't like it. I was stating that when I say something isn't metal it isn't a quality judgement but an observation. The causal link you proposed is wrong.

Things are metal partly for aesthetic reasons, sure, but also because of composition. If you can't hear the difference between hardcore and metal then you may be focussing too much on

Quote by EqualOfHeaven
the image, not in the music
EqualOfHeaven
The Great Sage
Join date: Feb 2013
195 IQ
#14
Quote by Hoodoo Man
This shows that you don't listen to music beyond the level of aesthetics.


You implied that people were dismissing music as not metal because they don't like it. I was stating that when I say something isn't metal it isn't a quality judgement but an observation. The causal link you proposed is wrong.

Things are metal partly for aesthetic reasons, sure, but also because of composition. If you can't hear the difference between hardcore and metal then you may be focussing too much on


Semantics cannot catch me out. You still haven't drawn a neat enough line in the sand between where Hardcore Punk ends and Heavy Metal begins. Anyone with even the slightest knowledge of the two genres knows how much the two genres aided and influenced each other's development, even before Hardcore, Punk Rock influenced bands like Motorhead. When Hardcore Punk, Crossover, Anarcho and Crust emerged the lines became blurred beyond recognition. Nearly all Metal since the 80s has been influenced by Punk and vice versa. This extends to all aspects of the music, not just some, composition in Metal has been influenced by Punk, and again, vice versa.

As for the causal link, as far as I can hear, System of a Down are a Metal band of some description, many people here deny that and don't really offer a sufficient explaination, simply proceeding to say that they don't like them. Tenuous? Perhaps. More interesting than the OP? Most definitly.
Hoodoo Man
LEG XX VV
Join date: Apr 2007
10 IQ
#15
Quote by EqualOfHeaven
Semantics cannot catch me out. You still haven't drawn a neat enough line in the sand between where Hardcore Punk ends and Heavy Metal begins. Anyone with even the slightest knowledge of the two genres knows how much the two genres aided and influenced each other's development, even before Hardcore, Punk Rock influenced bands like Motorhead. When Hardcore Punk, Crossover, Anarcho and Crust emerged the lines became blurred beyond recognition. Nearly all Metal since the 80s has been influenced by Punk and vice versa. This extends to all aspects of the music, not just some, composition in Metal has been influenced by Punk, and again, vice versa.

I don't see where semantics come into it. I wasn't trying to catch you out with anything. This is a debate, not a competition.

The influence of Hardcore and Metal on each other's evolution is undeniable, but that doesn't make them the same thing. The influence of Prog Rock and Metal on each other's evolution is undeniable, but Prog Rock isn't Metal. Certainly the lines between genres can become blurred but that doesn't mean we can't apply certain criteria to each in general, as is the case with any categorisation.

I figured that you would pull me up on establishing what the differences are, and I struggle to put into words what is more easily learned through experience, but I'll give it a go. To me metal is constructive and hardcore is deconstructive, which mirrors their philosophies. Metal constructs narratives out of developing and contrasting melodies (riffs) like in classical music. Hardcore deconstructs rock music to its most basic level, often with 2 contrasting, simple, chromatic riffs per song which give each other context. When Thrash, Death and Black Metal bands use these Hardcore style riffs, which they most certainly do all the time, it is in the more expansive Metal composition. This can be seen particularly obviously in bands like Bathory and Voivod, who expand Hardcore songs with more complex, developmental Metal structures.

I hope that is reasonably clear. I'm not trying to be obtuse, but like I said, this is something that is easier to hear than describe.

Quote by EqualOfHeaven
As for the causal link, as far as I can hear, System of a Down are a Metal band of some description, many people here deny that and don't really offer a sufficient explaination, simply proceeding to say that they don't like them. Tenuous? Perhaps. More interesting than the OP? Most definitly.

In that case I think your link is an assumption due to a lack of evidence either way. I can simply vouch for myself and at least some people around here when I say that it isn't the case. I never said whether System are a metal band, but for what it's worth I hear Pop songs with high contrast breaks into hardcore/grindcore style riffs. That sort of high contrast, jarring transition is something associated with Hardcore more than Metal, but either way I think the fundamental basis of Systems music is Pop Rock with loud guitars. That being said they are a fun band and I greatly enjoyed their music when I was younger. They are among the better Pop Metal bands at least.
Cianyx
UG Nerd
Join date: Dec 2008
1,216 IQ
#16
Discharge aren't really crust. Stylistically they are different to bands like Amebix and Nausea that are invariably prominent examples of the genre. And why put them under that umbrella when they already have one attributed to them I.e. d-beat

Unless you're referring to the jazz subgenre. Fusion is a useless term
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