#1
So I have a bugera 2x12 cabinet. When my bandmate uses his Bugera 6262 with his Marshall 1960 4x12 he only has to turn the volume up to maybe 3-4 at most at practice to be loud enough. When I plug it into my 2x12 I have to have the volume at maybe 6-7 to be able to be loud enough. Is that normal since there's less speakers they need to be turned up that much louder to compete? Its just something I am curious about because I always have to turn up louder than he does to be able to be heard. I am purchasing a new amp because my old one died and I don't really want to get a 4x12 because they are huge and heavy and I much prefer a 2x12 for portability and everything. But I am curious if I did upgrade to a 4x12 would it make it easier for me to be heard? My old amp was a 6505+ 60w and I always had to turn up to like 8 to be loud enough and I am considering another 50-60w head for my new amp and I don't want to have the same problems. Do you guys have any ideas if that is normal? Also the ohms are always matched on the cabinets so I know thats not the case.

TL;DR: When the same amp is plugged into my 2x12 needs to be at 6-7 to be loud enough but when plugged into 4x12 only needs to be at 3-4. Is this normal? Should I upgrade to a 4x12? Is it just my cabinet being messed up and weird? If I get a different 2x12 will it fix the problem? Specific gear is in my sig.

Thanks in advance!
Gear:
Gibson SG w/ Bare Knuckle Aftermaths
Early 90s Fender MIM Telecaster
Squier VM Jaguar
Ibanez RGD7421
Blackstar HT-100
Avatar Vintage w/ 2 Governors and 2 Swamp Thangs
Ibanez EX
Carvin bx500 w/ Peavey 2x10&1x15
#2
How did you have a 60w 6505+ head? Did you have a combo plugged into the 2x12?

Also what were your mids? Low mids + cheap speakers can get you buried in the mix. The 60W head doesn't help either.
Quote by DeathByDestroyr
See, it's important that people clarify when they say "metal", because I pretty much always assume they are a Cannibal Corpse fanboi.
#3
I made the combo amp into a head. And I have messed around with many different EQ settings. Also I plugged the same amp, my bandmates 120w Bugera 6262, into both my cabinet and his marshall 4x12. The issue is with more than 1 amp. Also I know having a 60w amp is not the problem. The perceivable volume difference between 60 and 120 watts is only around 3 decibels. so only about 30% louder at maximum volume, not twice as loud, as most people think.
Gear:
Gibson SG w/ Bare Knuckle Aftermaths
Early 90s Fender MIM Telecaster
Squier VM Jaguar
Ibanez RGD7421
Blackstar HT-100
Avatar Vintage w/ 2 Governors and 2 Swamp Thangs
Ibanez EX
Carvin bx500 w/ Peavey 2x10&1x15
#4
Stick it on a milk crate.
Gilchrist custom
Yamaha SBG500
Telecasters
Randall RM100 & RM20
Marshall JTM45 clone
Marshall JCM900 4102 (modded)
Marshall 18W clone
Fender 5F1 Champ clone
Atomic Amplifire
Marshall 1960A
Boss GT-100


Cathbard Amplification
My band
#5
I usually have it standing vertically so that the speakers are one on top of the other so that they aren't just sitting on the ground basically. I just find it strange that with the same amp I have to turn up twice as loud to get the same perceived volume.
Gear:
Gibson SG w/ Bare Knuckle Aftermaths
Early 90s Fender MIM Telecaster
Squier VM Jaguar
Ibanez RGD7421
Blackstar HT-100
Avatar Vintage w/ 2 Governors and 2 Swamp Thangs
Ibanez EX
Carvin bx500 w/ Peavey 2x10&1x15
#6
What speakers do you have in your cab?
Quote by DeathByDestroyr
See, it's important that people clarify when they say "metal", because I pretty much always assume they are a Cannibal Corpse fanboi.
#7
Just generic Bugera speakers. They don't give you any other info.
Gear:
Gibson SG w/ Bare Knuckle Aftermaths
Early 90s Fender MIM Telecaster
Squier VM Jaguar
Ibanez RGD7421
Blackstar HT-100
Avatar Vintage w/ 2 Governors and 2 Swamp Thangs
Ibanez EX
Carvin bx500 w/ Peavey 2x10&1x15
#8
What head are you going to run?

V30's are like magic with 6505 series. It's probably better to find a used mesa 2x12. Orange has a good 2x12.

You can upgrade your speakers but you will never get your money out of the cab. You can keep the stock ones and sell it together at a later date if needed.

See what your local GC has and even better with a loud room.
Quote by DeathByDestroyr
See, it's important that people clarify when they say "metal", because I pretty much always assume they are a Cannibal Corpse fanboi.
#9
Well I am thinking about upgrading to the EVH 5150 III 50w head since my 6505's board fried. Would I be best to go with the matching EVH cab? Or should I go mesa or orange? Or that company avatar that makes custom cabs. My friend had one of those and it was amazing.
Gear:
Gibson SG w/ Bare Knuckle Aftermaths
Early 90s Fender MIM Telecaster
Squier VM Jaguar
Ibanez RGD7421
Blackstar HT-100
Avatar Vintage w/ 2 Governors and 2 Swamp Thangs
Ibanez EX
Carvin bx500 w/ Peavey 2x10&1x15
#10
The 5153 50w cab is very low wattage due to the speakers. Be aware.

Avatar makes good stuff. It just comes down to getting the most for your money.
Quote by DeathByDestroyr
See, it's important that people clarify when they say "metal", because I pretty much always assume they are a Cannibal Corpse fanboi.
#11
I like the new 5153 with G12h30 type speakers and that's what comes in the EVH 2x12 cab

You could always put a pair of WGS reaper/reaper HP/ reaper 55hz in the Bugera cab. That would only cost <$200.

There are 2-3 5153 mini heads on www.guitarcenter.com/usedgear for <$800
2002 PRS CE22
2013 G&L ASAT Deluxe
2009 Epiphone G-400 (SH-4)
Marshall JCM2000 DSL100
Krank 1980 Jr 20watt
Krank Rev 4x12 (eminence V12)
GFS Greenie/Digitech Bad Monkey
Morley Bad Horsie 2
MXR Smart Gate
#12
Have you checked that there isn't something wrong with the power section?

Jackson RR3 Rhoads and DK2M Dinky
Peavey 6505+ w/ Avatar 212 cab
Ibanez TS9, ISP Decimator, MXR 10 Band EQ
-Digitech RP1000
#13
The amps aren't the issue. It happened with my old 6505 and then I tried it with a bugera 6262 as well and the same thing happened. I know it's not the amps.
Gear:
Gibson SG w/ Bare Knuckle Aftermaths
Early 90s Fender MIM Telecaster
Squier VM Jaguar
Ibanez RGD7421
Blackstar HT-100
Avatar Vintage w/ 2 Governors and 2 Swamp Thangs
Ibanez EX
Carvin bx500 w/ Peavey 2x10&1x15
#14
there are a couple of possible factors here.

1. his eq is different. this can be affected by speakers, amp, guitar, pedals, the whole shebang. if your tone is scooped and his is mid heavy, hes going to stand out. MIDS are the natural spectrum of the human ear!!! metal bands do not EQ the same way live as they do in the studio.

2. the cabinet itself - a good cabinet can project better period. the build quality of the marshall is going to be better. B - its a 4x12, so its "pushing more air". that terms is commonly used to describe the additional prescnese and low end you get with more speakers. BIG SOUND.
C - 4x12s have the speakers sitting higher....allowing sound waves to hit peoples ears easily...especially if its a slanted front.

3. SPEAKERS. SPEAKERS. that marshall has celestions in it 99% chance. most likely great sounding, mid heavy speakers and your bugera speakers will not stand up. speakers can have a massive impact on overall tone.

not for this example but if you take a speaker like an eminence wizard at 103 sol...that is a far louder speaker than one at 95. so you can have a FAR smaller amp and potentially be louder than another just based on your cab setup.

the easy fix-

check your EQ and see if you can make adjustments. most definitely either tilt your bugera up vertical (placing head somewhere else) OR put your whole rig securely on a chair or something up high.

i have avatar specifically tilt my 2x12 vertical for this reason. my head also fits perfect on a vertical 2x12......which i bought for that reason (i had this master plan for my rig).
Carvin CT624
Walden G630ce Acoustic
Carvin V3M, Avatar 2x12 WGS Reaper, vet 30
(crybaby, Fairfield circuitry Comp, GFS tuner, Vick Audio 73 Ram's Head, Xotic AC booster, lovepedal trem, TC Flashback, PGS Trinity Reverb, Walrus Audio Aetos power)
#15
What speakers will give me the best volume if I go through avatar and I am using a evh 5153 50w?
Gear:
Gibson SG w/ Bare Knuckle Aftermaths
Early 90s Fender MIM Telecaster
Squier VM Jaguar
Ibanez RGD7421
Blackstar HT-100
Avatar Vintage w/ 2 Governors and 2 Swamp Thangs
Ibanez EX
Carvin bx500 w/ Peavey 2x10&1x15
#16
You may want to try a hellatone 30 and hellatone 60 (g12h30/V30)

The EVH 2x12 has 2 G12h30's in it.
2002 PRS CE22
2013 G&L ASAT Deluxe
2009 Epiphone G-400 (SH-4)
Marshall JCM2000 DSL100
Krank 1980 Jr 20watt
Krank Rev 4x12 (eminence V12)
GFS Greenie/Digitech Bad Monkey
Morley Bad Horsie 2
MXR Smart Gate
#17
Quote by ikey_
3. SPEAKERS. SPEAKERS. that marshall has celestions in it 99% chance. most likely great sounding, mid heavy speakers and your bugera speakers will not stand up. speakers can have a massive impact on overall tone.

No not really. Most Marshall cabs have G12T75's which are mid-scooped speakers not mid heavy
And yes speakers can have a big impact on tone
2002 PRS CE22
2013 G&L ASAT Deluxe
2009 Epiphone G-400 (SH-4)
Marshall JCM2000 DSL100
Krank 1980 Jr 20watt
Krank Rev 4x12 (eminence V12)
GFS Greenie/Digitech Bad Monkey
Morley Bad Horsie 2
MXR Smart Gate
#18
Quote by CemetaryGates90
So I have a bugera 2x12 cabinet. When my bandmate uses his Bugera 6262 with his Marshall 1960 4x12 he only has to turn the volume up to maybe 3-4 at most at practice to be loud enough. When I plug it into my 2x12 I have to have the volume at maybe 6-7 to be able to be loud enough. Is that normal since there's less speakers they need to be turned up that much louder to compete? Its just something I am curious about because I always have to turn up louder than he does to be able to be heard. I am purchasing a new amp because my old one died and I don't really want to get a 4x12 because they are huge and heavy and I much prefer a 2x12 for portability and everything. But I am curious if I did upgrade to a 4x12 would it make it easier for me to be heard? My old amp was a 6505+ 60w and I always had to turn up to like 8 to be loud enough and I am considering another 50-60w head for my new amp and I don't want to have the same problems. Do you guys have any ideas if that is normal? Also the ohms are always matched on the cabinets so I know thats not the case.

TL;DR: When the same amp is plugged into my 2x12 needs to be at 6-7 to be loud enough but when plugged into 4x12 only needs to be at 3-4. Is this normal? Should I upgrade to a 4x12? Is it just my cabinet being messed up and weird? If I get a different 2x12 will it fix the problem? Specific gear is in my sig.

Thanks in advance!


Short Answer: Yes

Slightly longer explanation: Number of speakers and (probably)speaker efficiency.


You' re losing 3db by halving the speakers, and if you lose another 3db due to speaker efficiency a 6 db loss will be quite noticeable.
“Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge.”
Charles Darwin
#19
You're obviously playing metal, but what type of metal?

If you're going with the really heavy stuff, and you're playing rhythm and want to shine through, get a Vader 2x12. They're more powerful than most 4x12's and give a significant chunkiness to your sound. They're a tad scooped sounding, so boost the mids a tad.

Problem solved.

EDIT: Oh, and they're relatively cheap brand new
http://vader.emperionguitars.com/guitar-cabinets/guitar-2x12/
#20
Quote by bdof
You're obviously playing metal, but what type of metal?

If you're going with the really heavy stuff, and you're playing rhythm and want to shine through, get a Vader 2x12. They're more powerful than most 4x12's and give a significant chunkiness to your sound. They're a tad scooped sounding, so boost the mids a tad.

Problem solved.

EDIT: Oh, and they're relatively cheap brand new
http://vader.emperionguitars.com/guitar-cabinets/guitar-2x12/



??
“Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge.”
Charles Darwin
#21
Yea I see now that my problem was a combination of number of speakers and the decibel sensitivity of the speakers. The ones on it are probably 96 or 97 compared to the vintage 30 being 100. I am going to get a avatar can I think with 2 eminence speakers in it. I haven't decided what yet. The site says that swamp thangs are good for drop tunings and 7 strings. My band only playing 6 strings in drop c# but I also own a 7 string so it would be nice to know the cab is good for it. Plus the speakers rate at 102dbl sensitivity. So even though I have 2 less speakers and a lower wattage head the difference shouldn't be quite as much.
Gear:
Gibson SG w/ Bare Knuckle Aftermaths
Early 90s Fender MIM Telecaster
Squier VM Jaguar
Ibanez RGD7421
Blackstar HT-100
Avatar Vintage w/ 2 Governors and 2 Swamp Thangs
Ibanez EX
Carvin bx500 w/ Peavey 2x10&1x15
#22
V30's go well with the swamp thangs. The Eminence Governor is their version of the V30
2002 PRS CE22
2013 G&L ASAT Deluxe
2009 Epiphone G-400 (SH-4)
Marshall JCM2000 DSL100
Krank 1980 Jr 20watt
Krank Rev 4x12 (eminence V12)
GFS Greenie/Digitech Bad Monkey
Morley Bad Horsie 2
MXR Smart Gate
#23
Quote by Arby911
??

Two 120w Eminence speakers.

Yeah, they're pretty powerful. I have the 2x12 and the 2x15, which is 600w by itself.
#24
Quote by bdof
Two 120w Eminence speakers.

Yeah, they're pretty powerful. I have the 2x12 and the 2x15, which is 600w by itself.


What you're describing is "power handling capacity", which has little to no bearing on volume or sonic quality.

In point of fact higher power capacity speakers are often less sensitive and thus put out less sound pressure (perceived volume) for a given input.
“Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge.”
Charles Darwin
#25
I too searched for a cab that would give me the sound I wanted. I play metal almost exclusively. Metallica, Pantera, etc. I went with a 2x12 Avatar Cabinet. Great cabs these are. Solid, all sides are 9 ply birch. You can choose color, speakers, all sorts of options. I went with closed back, and boy does it BOOM! But the also sell a "convertible" back. Do you use closed back?