#1
sawr, i just experienced the most illogical 2 hours of my life. i am seeking a reality check. i have no intentions on flaming a particular group of peoples, but i need to make sure of what happened and who is in the wrong here. not that there is even a true right or wrong just a small reality check...

sawr, let me explain,
straight up cliche christian vs agnostic debate. me on the agnostic side. two friends on the other side. it comes down to a few debated concepts that jump out as being significant.

1. is evolution real?
2. is sin/jesus logical?
3. is logic logical?

i say evolution is real. they say it is not real. i ask for disproof. they say they need none. i ask why. they say because i have god and the bible and evolution is not in it therefore it does not exist. i lay down my proof. i say evolution is in our dna. i use many examples, some being as simple as dna adapting and growing to your everyday environment like practicing a musical instrument. we adapt and evolve over time to adapt and become more efficient and productive to fit a new environment. they say no. the argument was on and off for 2 hours, never came past this particular idea. no matter how much evidence i have to support the concept of evolution the best response they give me is then why cant i teach a monkey to play drums? i say you can over thousands of years, evolution isnt instant, a concept they cant grasp because creation didnt happen like that. when they ask where did i come from and i respond my parents and theirs and theirs all the way back till my parents looked like chimps. they say no cuz adam and eve.

number 2 isnt that important. it basically brushed why jesus was needed to die for everyone. we eventually got the the idea that jesus was only existent to show living people from then on that a perfect person like jesus can come and die for everyone and that if you dont think that is good enough for you to believe in god then you are stupid. i just dont agree. i think the idea of sin is silly. i think kharma is more well grounded. but i dont go by the normal definition of kharma, and i explained, i go by a more well rounded and simple version that follows the beliefs of the bible, i.e. be a good person ect., and makes me no different than a devout christian except i dont think god exists. but they think that makes me less successful and i should go to hell.

lastly logic isnt logical. no matter what i say logic doesnt work because god is self regenerating like piccolo. any wound or break in the concept gets auto regenerated because god is god. if i say carbon dating tells us not only is the earth, but life, including human life, existed before the time frame the bible gives us, which is less than 7000 years, telling by how long each human family lived via genesis plus 6 days of creation. but since god is god, god made earth and let it sit there with random bones that dont mean anything and im just being lied to by people smarter than me.

idk man, but im a little shaken, not stirred. my brain hurts.

tl'dr?
well if you dont wana read then i dont really need your opinion. i guess you can just tell me if you think evolution exists or not. but i really dont wana start pointless arguments online.
#2
Why does everyone think it's witty to have a "tl;dr go read it" thing at the bottom? Either put it there or don't, don't try and pretend you're clever by writing something like that.
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#3
Quote by necrosis1193
Why does everyone think it's witty to have a "tl;dr go read it" thing at the bottom? Either put it there or don't, don't try and pretend you're clever by writing something like that.
All my this.
Seriously.
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Sometimes I fuck a bamboo shoot.


There's nothing left here to be saved
Just barreling dogs and barking trains
Another year lost to the blue line
#4
what? i wrote it cuz i know people say tldr lol didnt read, or even worse, what you just did by trying to go beyond the point and point out a flaw and get others to follow you for the sole purpose of making someone look dumb.
#5
nobody cares
*-)
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#6
Yep. That's how a lot of Christians are. There's really nothing you can do to convince them.
#8
You had a bad argument and they had no argument at all.

I didn't read past "dna adapting to playing guitar" or whatever the hell that was.
#9
loldat2^

If they are like that, they are far too gone to be saved.

Also, Evolution does not disprove religion as much as it does not prove Scientific method (and irreligion).

1. is evolution real?

Absolutely, Micro-Evolution is irrefutable, Macro, eh, but still logical and with evidence up the wazoo.

2. is sin/jesus logical?

Not in the least. God=kills everybody with the flood. Second time round...hmmm maybe ill send my son to cure them of sin by killing himself! GENIUS.

3. is logic logical?

huuurduuur, you cant understand god with your feeble mind! huuurduuur
#10
Quote by jrcsgtpeppers
what? i wrote it cuz i know people say tldr lol didnt read, or even worse, what you just did by trying to go beyond the point and point out a flaw and get others to follow you for the sole purpose of making someone look dumb.
Quote by jrcsgtpeppers
tl'dr?
well if you dont wana read then i dont really need your opinion.
^Saying something like that is incredibly unnecessary in a tl;dr. That's the point of the statement.

And I'm not trying to make you look dumb. If I were to want to make you look dumb, I would've said something like "Bro, that's some awful grammar you just typed up in this batch." to the first quote.
Quote by snipelfritz
You lost me at "Lubricate."

I'm raw, like nature. Nature boy. Big jungle leaves are my cum rags.

Sometimes I fuck a bamboo shoot.


There's nothing left here to be saved
Just barreling dogs and barking trains
Another year lost to the blue line
Last edited by Joshua Garcia at May 21, 2013,
#11
I read the intro, scanned each paragraph, still not sure why you invested yourself in that "debate."

and lol at "i think kharma is more well grounded. but i dont go by the normal definition of kharma." That's like the ultimate pop-religion ideology. Either you believe in the traditional concept of kharma or you believe in something totally different that should have a different name.

But really, anybody who believes evolution and creationism are inherently mutually exclusive is not worth discussing either with.

I'm going to talk about my day now. I woke up around noon, watched a bunch of youtube poops, texted a layday, was disappointed to find out she got called into work tomorrow and couldn't hang out tonight, ate some food, left for work, stopped for a latte, also stopped for a newspaper and a 12-pack of PBR, went to work, worked for 7 hours also reading the newspaper doing all the puzzles and editing many of the comic strips to be highly inappropriate and juvenile, left work, drove home in the rain which always makes me very anxious ( ), got home, ate some leftover chicken and started drinking the beer. Altogether not bad, but with two bad moments (rain driving and letdown w/ the girl).
BOOM-SHAKALAKALAKA-BOOM-SHAKALAKUNGA
#12
Quote by jrcsgtpeppers
what? i wrote it cuz i know people say tldr lol didnt read, or even worse, what you just did by trying to go beyond the point and point out a flaw and get others to follow you for the sole purpose of making someone look dumb.


Do you really think the best way to get people not to bug you about not wanting to read your entire post is by ending it with what's more or less "In summary, I'm not summarizing you lazy bastard, now go read it"?
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Last edited by necrosis1193 at May 21, 2013,
#13
Quote by PapaKooLay
loldat2^

If they are like that, they are far too gone to be saved.

Also, Evolution does not disprove religion as much as it does not prove Scientific method (and irreligion).

1. is evolution real?

Absolutely, Micro-Evolution is irrefutable, Macro, eh, but still logical and with evidence up the wazoo.

2. is sin/jesus logical?

Not in the least. God=kills everybody with the flood. Second time round...hmmm maybe ill send my son to cure them of sin by killing himself! GENIUS.

3. is logic logical?

huuurduuur, you cant understand god with your feeble mind! huuurduuur

This is a gross oversimplification of both viewpoints, and you should feel bad about it.

Quote by snipelfritz
But really, anybody who believes evolution and creationism are inherently mutually exclusive is not worth discussing either with.

This is much better logic than either TS or his opponents displayed.
Last edited by crazysam23_Atax at May 21, 2013,
#14
Why did you bother arguing? Why don't you not be a dick and leave people to believe whatever they choose.
#16
Quote by necrosis1193
Do you really think the best way to get people not to bug you about not wanting to read your entire post is by ending it with what's more or less "In summary, I'm not summarizing you lazy bastard, now go read it"?

i did not word it like that at all. i didnt follow your idea of what a whitty person would do. i made it clear i wanted you to read my post, but i also gave you an alternative of posting your opinion of a similar subject. so you are wrong and i am right. now back to the OP.

@innertom
you are assuming you know what the atmosphere was like prior to the engagement. it was 2 hours of people trying to make me look stupid, not thru an exchangement of opinions and facts, but by avoiding being wrong and subjecting themselves to a low form of back n forth insults at my intelligence after telling me i am wrong and stupid and after telling me they cant disprove evolution. its disrespectful to me. i made it apparent multiple times that i am not in it to prove anyone right or wrong, i simply wanted to ask questions to get answers so i can better myself as a human being. i made it clear. i even let them take back poorly spoken statements and try again. i made it clear that i had no negative intentions, just searching for the truth like everyone else.

so i dont understand where you guys are coming from, or i do, its assumptionland, where people think they know what you are thinking and try to tell you that you are wrong for thinking that thought that you didnt actually think.
#17
Quote by innertom
Why did you bother arguing? Why don't you not be a dick and leave people to believe whatever they choose.

Because he 'believes' that arguing was the right thing to do of course, so why don't you not be a dick and leave people to believe whatever they choose.
#18
Quote by jrcsgtpeppers
i did not word it like that at all. i didnt follow your idea of what a whitty person would do. i made it clear i wanted you to read my post, but i also gave you an alternative of posting your opinion of a similar subject. so you are wrong and i am right. now back to the OP.

@innertom
you are assuming you know what the atmosphere was like prior to the engagement. it was 2 hours of people trying to make me look stupid, not thru an exchangement of opinions and facts, but by avoiding being wrong and subjecting themselves to a low form of back n forth insults at my intelligence after telling me i am wrong and stupid and after telling me they cant disprove evolution. its disrespectful to me. i made it apparent multiple times that i am not in it to prove anyone right or wrong, i simply wanted to ask questions to get answers so i can better myself as a human being. i made it clear. i even let them take back poorly spoken statements and try again. i made it clear that i had no negative intentions, just searching for the truth like everyone else.

so i dont understand where you guys are coming from, or i do, its assumptionland, where people think they know what you are thinking and try to tell you that you are wrong for thinking that thought that you didnt actually think.



There are stupid people in all walks of life. Your friends were stupid for not coming up with good examples, and you're stupid for trying to come up with purposely bad examples. Both sides are stupid for arguing for 2 hours.
#19
Saw thread title..

Saw who made thread..

Came in for the replies..

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#20
Of course you are welcome to share your day, my main man. Just as long as you share your spliff as well.

...modes and scales are still useless.


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#21
Quote by crazysam23_Atax


There are stupid people in all walks of life. Your friends were stupid for not coming up with good examples, and you're stupid for trying to come up with purposely bad examples. Both sides are stupid for arguing for 2 hours.

Im am not purposefully coming up with bad examples. YOu only say that because you assume that there was a back n forth argument where both sides came up with counter examples in a formal discussion pattern. It didnt. They dropped to telling me they didnt know but they know god is right and the bible told them this and they is what they believe and i am automatically wrong. then insult me afterwards, over and over again. No matter what i said i got the same response eventually, after 2-5 minutes of pointless preaching examples of good deads i can do in life or that it is my choice i think that and their choice is more correct.
#22
Just cause it hasn't been spelled out in black and white yet....

TS, adaptation=/=evolution

Evolution is a by-product of adaptation, but I can assure you, our DNA does not learn anything.

According to you, this is how evolution should work.....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_PbNEL1Yhno


Congratulations, you're as smart as Michael Kelso
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#24
Quote by snipelfritz

But really, anybody who believes evolution and creationism are inherently mutually exclusive is not worth discussing either with.

They kind of are. Believing God put every animal on the Earth as is less than 10,000 years ago and then pretending you believe in evolution is dishonest.

EDIT:
Why did you bother arguing? Why don't you not be a dick and leave people to believe whatever they choose.
Excuse me whilst I get the Atheists at my door to stop knocking with pamphlets and begging me to convert.
Last edited by willT08 at May 21, 2013,
#25
I'm sorry, allow me to quote.....

Quote by jrcsgtpeppers

i lay down my proof. i say evolution is in our dna. i use many examples, some being as simple as dna adapting and growing to your everyday environment like practicing a musical instrument.



Your DNA will not, nor will it ever, adapt to anything. At all. Ever. Never. Your DNA is, and will always be, the same. Your DNA allows for your muscles and your brian to do their thing, which is learn shit. It has never, nor will ever, have anything to do with adaptation or evolution.

Obviously rocket feet is a hyperbole. But your example has the same autistic parallels.

Also...
Quote by willT08
They kind of are. Believing God put every animal on the Earth as is less than 10,000 years ago and then pretending you believe in evolution is dishonest.


You're equating creationism to religion, which, while one relies a great deal on the other, does not make them the same thing. One could very easily believe the universe and everything in it was at one point created and then from there changed and evolved into what it is today. I'm not going to debate this with you, it is not really subjective.
Quote by drop-dead666
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Last edited by axethrower13 at May 21, 2013,
#26
Quote by willT08
They kind of are. Believing God put every animal on the Earth as is less than 10,000 years ago and then pretending you believe in evolution is dishonest..

creationism =/= early portions of the Bible existing on a literal sense of time equivalent to we understand it as now.

Of course people on either side can act like it does.
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#27
Quote by snipelfritz
creationism =/= early portions of the Bible existing on a literal sense of time equivalent to we understand it as now.

Of course people on either side can act like it does.

That'd be because that's exactly what Creationists say it is.

EDIT: That's not to mention that'd it be incompatible with evolution no matter what time scale you put it in because God is literally plonking things down.
Last edited by willT08 at May 21, 2013,
#29
Why you arguing with religious people? 95% are brainwashed.
Sincerely,
Shitstirrer
#30
It sounds like both parties in the argument were as hard-headed as each-other. Whilst your points started out logical, it started to sound kind of ridiculous to me after a little while, but you probably approached it from the angle of trying to convert them, or belittling their beliefs (or they might have assumed this), so they became defensive, effectively shutting you down. I'm not saying that your friends were completely innocent, as they sounded like they were being totally closed minded, but it sounds like it came down to a fight to win the argument rather than debate the issues involved.

Unless you have some well thought out points and actually listen to eachother, there is no point in arguing about religion as neither party will change their mind.

Either way, if these people are your friends, you should have all respected each others beliefs. You may see your point of view as the logical one, but they probably think the exact same thing about theirs.
WHOMP

Think of that next time you are not allowed to laugh.
Last edited by donender at May 21, 2013,
#32
Who the hell argues with Christians anyway? You're trying to disprove their faith. All you can do is give your opinion and them give theirs while maintaining mutual respect or it's going to go to horseshit.
Most of the important things


in the world have been accomplished


by people who have kept on


trying when there seemed to be no hope at all
#33
I don't think you know how evolution works. Maybe you shouldn't argue about it so much.

↑ And that.
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LET'S GO BUCKS
#34
People like this irks me. I am a somewhat religious person myself, but I don't refute science. I don't use logical holes to prove my point. "I don't have to prove it because I have the bible" makes me want to bash the person's head in. That goes against everything I believe in. If you want somebody to believe in something, you have a good reason for it. If God is real, then such statements would not show your support for God. It'd only alienate atheists and whatever people into thinking that being religious means being stupid and illogical, which seems to be how many people see religion on here.

On the topic of evolution, yes, I believe it's real, because it's provable, at least according to the brains studying it. Could we be wrong? Sure, but I'm no scientist, so the best I can do is trust the people who knows what they're doing it. I still believe somewhat in creationism. They're both opposite ends, and I get that they're almost definitely mutually exclusive, but me believing in something doesn't make it real, does it? It's more like a faith kind of thing. Gets you through a tough day when you think someone is just looking over you.

/destroys street cred earned over a few years in one post
#37
TS: You will go through life and the people you meet will continually reinforce to you that human beings are about as intelligent as lichen. Even if your opinion is backed up by peer review and academia, it is still open to conjecture by people who are either: academics who want to further it, and so will look for flaws or morons who want to hurt it who will use the flaws brought up in academia to support their backwards claims.

As for logic being truly logical. It's very difficult. Human beings struggle with verbal logic in any case. Language is inherently ambiguous. If you want to avoid this and exploit any chinks in God's logical armour, Mathematics is as close to pure logic as we can possibly get and only a few people think in that way. If you want to know as to whether logic is truly logical, then get learning maths. And even then, mathematics cannot prove that God does not exist, at least, not readily or without introducing factors that are not easily explained by maths.
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